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Author Topic: U-hid Nano Encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.  (Read 5190 times)

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MTPPC

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I mainly want to run:
Badlands
Championship Sprint (Revision 3)
Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat
Fire Truck
Konami GT
Pole Position
Pole Position II
Stocker
Ironman Ivan Stewart's Super Off-Road
Ironman Ivan Stewart's Super Off-Road Track Pak
Super Sprint (Revision 4)

I have a pole position control panel so I will be using optical steering, 1 shifter button and analog accelerator.

I am looking at Ultimarc U-HID, U-HID Nano or a GGG optiwiz. What other options would there be. Is there and all in one solution from GGG?

Do I need analog input for the accelerator considering my game list?

WHat other inputs do I need besides coin, start and escape? Do I even need a start button for these games? Can I get by with just a U-HID Nano?

What am I forgetting.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 01:11:06 pm by MTPPC »
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BadMouth

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2016, 09:05:54 pm »
You absolutely need analog input for the pedals with pole position.
If you just use a switch, the car will spin the tires and lose time when you take off.
There are settings in MAME to deal with it (Digital Speed and Digital Center), but you might as well do this right unless you're trying to go as cheap as possible.

The UHID Nano isn't going to have enough pins.  The optical sensor itself will take up 4.
GroovyGameGear is my first choice when buying arcade parts, but none of their interfaces work with analog controls.

So although it's pricey, the full size U-HID is the only device that will cover everything.
On the upside if you have any leftover pins, you can use them for LEDs.


Not sure about all the games, but Ivan Stewart's Offroad had a start button that doubled as a Nitro boost button.
By default MAME toggles back and forth between gears when you press a button instead of relying on one switch like the original.
Look in the driving cab info thread for ways to get it to behave like the original.  I assume this is still possible, but haven't kept up with the recent changes in MAME.
Most games only used one switch in the shifter, but not all of them had it on the same side.
So there is a chance you'll have to add a second switch or wire up the NC (normally closed) tab on the switch up like it's another switch.

It sounds like a nice build.

MTPPC

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2016, 09:14:57 pm »
Thanks, Badmouth. I'm finishing up my crazy taxi 270 build this week and I'll document that fully. It looks like I'll be ordering the U-HID to get what I want. I'll be using racerMAME 1.60 with an arcadeVGA in a P4 3.6 PC.

BTW, I really appreciate the sticky. I have referred back to it at least 20 times in the last month. Thanks for that as well.

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PL1

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2016, 09:44:07 pm »
I have a pole position control panel so I will be using optical steering, 1 shifter button and analog accelerator.
- 4 pins for optical steering (5v, ground, data1, data2)
 - 1 more for analog accelerator (should be able to share the 5v and ground)
 - 3 more for the shifter, Coin, and Start buttons (should be able to share the ground)
 - 1 more for a dedicated Esc button (should be able to share the ground) or none if you set it up as a shifted function (Coin + Start)

That adds up to 8 or 9 pins which would fit on a U-HID Nano.

Assuming that the games on your list work with a one-switch shifter and that you can share one ground, you should be good to go.

There is one possible limitation.
Quote
+5 Volts out (max 30 ma)

If the optos and pot draw more than 30mA, you should be able assign two pins to 5v and either:
  1. Use the shifted function for ESC
  2. Use diodes + shifted function for dedicated ESC button
  3. Use "reverse wiring" + shifted function for dedicated ESC button (like KADE Extended Mode Up+Down "impossible keypresses" in this wiring diagram)


Scott
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 09:49:15 pm by PL1 »

MTPPC

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 11:09:33 pm »
Now I am torn. I thought I might be able to pull it off with the nano. Good think Ultimarc is on holiday through 8/15. Does KADE do analog? I've got a few more avr's stashed away somewhere...
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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2016, 12:06:57 am »
Does KADE do analog? I've got a few more avr's stashed away somewhere...
The Minimus AVR/KADE miniArcade (atmel 32u2) can handle the pushbuttons and optical (IIRC a minor issue with backspin is still unresolved so the U-HID is better for this), but not analog. (atmel 32u4 or newer have A/D converters)

Assuming that you have 2 usb ports available, you could use a KADE for the buttons and a U-HID nano for the optical and analog.   :cheers:


Scott

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2016, 08:52:00 am »
A-PAC not an option?
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2016, 10:31:18 am »
A-PAC not an option?

It can't accept input for the optical wheel.


Do any of those games use a brake pedal?
If so, the Nano still isn't going to cut it.
If you can't get all the games working with one switch on the shifter, you're also screwed.

I'd fork over the extra money for the peace of mind of knowing I'm covered for anything that might come up.
That's my $.02

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2016, 10:35:11 am »
A-PAC not an option?

It can't accept input for the optical wheel.

Glossed over that, my bad(mouth)
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
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baritonomarchetto

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2016, 10:37:38 am »
Arduino (leonardo or pro micro) is an option, but it's not plug and play.

MTPPC

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2016, 09:31:31 pm »
I think I'm going to go with an AVR and a U-HID nano. I really appreciate the input here.
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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2016, 11:15:57 am »
FYI, you can pull off a 360 degree MAME with just the U-HID Nano without shifted functions.

1 Not used
2 Ground
3 Quadrature (Steering)
4 Quadrature (Steering)
5 Analog (Accelerator)
6 Key Switch 'esc' - Menu
7 Key Switch '5' - Coin
8 Key Switch '1' - Start
9Key Switch 'a' - Shift/Fire
10 +5VDC

For more advanced functions, you must connect a keyboard/mouse, but for regular game play on my gamelist, I think this is all that is needed.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 02:28:32 pm by MTPPC »
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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2016, 12:30:48 am »
For example, to disable the toggle on the shifter in outrun, open /cfg/outrun.cfg and add toggle="no" to the port tag, like so:
<port tag=":SERVICE" type="P1_BUTTON1" mask="16" defvalue="0" toggle="no">

This is the command to use an original PP shifter where you don't want it to toggle low or high gear.
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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2016, 01:10:15 pm »
I just wanted to revisit this a little bit. I have used the U-HID Nano with an input to spare... Coin Button, P1 start button, 360 steering, analog pedal, and Gear Button.


This is how:

1 Not used
2 Ground
3 Quadrature (Steering)
4 Quadrature (Steering)
5 Analog (Accelerator)
6 Extra Unused i/o
7 Key Switch 'Shifted Function' / '5' - Coin on Release
8 Key Switch '1' - Start / Shifted 'esc' - Menu
9 Key Switch 'a' - Gear or Fire depending on game
10 +5VDC
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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2016, 02:18:53 pm »
For example, to disable the toggle on the shifter in outrun, open /cfg/outrun.cfg and add toggle="no" to the port tag, like so:
<port tag=":SERVICE" type="P1_BUTTON1" mask="16" defvalue="0" toggle="no">

This is the command to use an original PP shifter where you don't want it to toggle low or high gear.

Does changing the defvalue allow you to get away with only having one switch on your shifter and still have the games function as they should?
(i.e. your cabinet has a switch on the Lo side, the cabinet you're emulating has the switch on the Hi side)

I just wanted to revisit this a little bit. I have used the U-HID Nano with an input to spare... Coin Button, P1 start button, 360 steering, analog pedal, and Gear Button.

Thanks for the info.  Much better to have info out there from someone who's actually done it rather than just speculation from me.  :cheers:

So it's enough for the original Pole Position upright which didn't have a brake.
The extra input could be used for a digital or analog (but not optical) brake.

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2016, 03:23:27 pm »
For example, to disable the toggle on the shifter in outrun, open /cfg/outrun.cfg and add toggle="no" to the port tag, like so:
<port tag=":SERVICE" type="P1_BUTTON1" mask="16" defvalue="0" toggle="no">

This is the command to use an original PP shifter where you don't want it to toggle low or high gear.

Does changing the defvalue allow you to get away with only having one switch on your shifter and still have the games function as they should?
(i.e. your cabinet has a switch on the Lo side, the cabinet you're emulating has the switch on the Hi side)

I just wanted to revisit this a little bit. I have used the U-HID Nano with an input to spare... Coin Button, P1 start button, 360 steering, analog pedal, and Gear Button.

Thanks for the info.  Much better to have info out there from someone who's actually done it rather than just speculation from me.  :cheers:

So it's enough for the original Pole Position upright which didn't have a brake.
The extra input could be used for a digital or analog (but not optical) brake.
Not optical, but yes analog for a brake. I haven't done the math, but 100ma is allowable (in total) across the analog pots and optical trackballs... at least on the nano.
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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2016, 04:23:18 pm »
Not optical, but yes analog for a brake. I haven't done the math, but 100ma is allowable (in total) across the analog pots and optical trackballs... at least on the nano.
The good news is that 5v across a 5k pot will only draw 1 mA.

  Ohm's Law I=E/R (current = voltage / resistance)

  X amps =5 volts/5000 ohms

  X = .001 amps = 1 mA


Scott

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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2016, 12:04:35 am »
Not optical, but yes analog for a brake. I haven't done the math, but 100ma is allowable (in total) across the analog pots and optical trackballs... at least on the nano.
The good news is that 5v across a 5k pot will only draw 1 mA.

  Ohm's Law I=E/R (current = voltage / resistance)

  X amps =5 volts/5000 ohms

  X = .001 amps = 1 mA


Scott
I think I read somewhere that the opto board on a track ball sucks around 35mA, but it's probably less than that.
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Re: Help me pick an encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2016, 01:03:33 am »
I think I read somewhere that the opto board on a track ball sucks around 35mA, but it's probably less than that.
Sounds like the right ballpark since a typical LED draws ~20mA and each optical circuit has two of them.

Lower current draw extends the life of the LED so using a larger current limiting resistor makes sense.

Bottom line: You'd have to use a multimeter in series with the opto board 5v line to be sure how much current that model opto board draws.

For example, a U-Trak opto board draws ~21-22mA.


Scott

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Re: U-hid Nano Encoder solution for a Pole Position Upright Multi.
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2022, 02:18:53 pm »
MTPPC, Ordering the Nano today for my POLE POSITION with (bad PCB's} is there anything you would have done differently today? Have you added any other 360 driving games? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd also like to try a few spinner games like ARKANOID, TEMPEST just for the fun of it, I think using a 360 steering wheel would be a blast. Thanks for posting