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Author Topic: Next two machines on the repair block!!  (Read 2475 times)

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Slippyblade

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Next two machines on the repair block!!
« on: June 24, 2016, 12:29:07 am »
So, I've got a deal with this guy.  He's got a bunch of games and they all need some sort of work done.  If I can get them working, I get a Joust out of the deal.  I finally brought the first two machines home and got to poke at them today.

The machines I'll be working on.
Mr Do
Defender
Pac-Man
Joust
Tutankhamen
Kangaroo
Dig-Dug

I brought home the Tut and Joust today. 

Joust:  When plugged in and turned on, the CRT turns on, screen brightens up, but there is no image or sound.  Gonna break out the meter and start testing voltages.

Tut: Nothing at all happens when turned on.

-----------------------------------------------------------  7/21/17 ----------------------------

Next two machines are in the house.  This time I grabbed Pac Man and Stargate.   Got them home and into the shop and plugged them in.  Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, they both power up!

Stargate: Powered on, displays a RAM error message but then boots up and is playable.

Pac Man: Powers on, screen has an all over red hue, totally playable.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 02:20:07 am by Slippyblade »

thomas_surles

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2016, 01:10:56 am »
Sounds like a sweet deal. I love joust. I will be watching this.

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2016, 01:15:34 am »
I won't be doing full restorations on these machines.  Just getting them working.  It's as much a learning experience for me as anything.  I've not done machine repair like this before, so everything I do will be new ground!

First, the Joust.  First thing I did was open the cabinet and firmly seat all the ROMs.  Nothing.  Then I found a board reset switch, tried it and it booted!  Played a game just to check and it was working fine.  Cycled through all the test and bookkeeping menus and it looked fine.  No sound though, so I went to close the back door...  and it died.  So there is obviously something wrong...  now to find it.  There is a 7-segment on the board that was showing '0' when it was playing, now it's not lit at all.  Monitor is still lit up though, so there is juice in the system.

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2016, 01:11:26 pm »
Behavior is very intermittent.  All three LED's on the power board are lit, so at least it *thinks* the voltages are correct.  I think I just need to pull the whole boardset out onto the bench and start probing voltages.  Probably going to reflow the solder joints on all the board connector pins as well since I've read those like to go south.

opt2not

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2016, 02:36:03 pm »
Williams board-sets are really temperamental with voltages.  Definitely verify the power supply's voltages and check to see if there are any spikes happening.
Is it on the original linear PS? They are pretty straight-forward for repairing and probably due for new caps. Or, you could swap it out with a switching PS. Though I am still running my repaired linear and it's been holding strong for a while now.

Also, the ribbon cables between the ROM board and the Mainboard are prone to bad connections. I have had 2 boards that I had to replace the ribbon cables with IDE conversion kits from Scucci at KLOV. They help with making the boards more bulletproof, and being able to easily replace the ribbon cable in the future is pretty handy.

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2016, 03:02:49 pm »
Thanks for the advice, Opt.  The caps on all the boards look good, very smooth, no bulges.  Not to mention that sometimes the game DOES work.  I'm seriously thinking it's the connector cables or the pins.  Tonight I'm gonna pull the boards, reflow the solder on the pins, and check the cables.  While those IDE connectors look like a great idea, I am doing this on-the-cheap as much as possible.

Overall, the boards look amazing.  The battery holder will probably need to be replaced though.  The AAs that were in it leaked slightly so the holder is corroded.  Gonna try cleaning it really well first.  Not sure that would cause the symptoms I'm seeing though.

cw

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2016, 09:23:09 pm »
also check cold solder joints on power pcbs and main pcb..

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2016, 02:18:23 am »
Looks like I got the main problem on Joust #1 worked out.  The main power connector to the CPU board had a bad connection.  The +12v line wasn't making a good connection.  I cut it out and reseated the wire in the blades of the connector and it is working reliably now.  Now I need to figure out why I've got no sound and then rebuild the joysticks and deal with the battery holder.  Bob Roberts has a great little hack to replace the AA battery holder with a CR2032 lithium that I think I'll do.

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2016, 02:43:02 am »
Ok, sound issue us a bad connector as well.  Grabbed a pic pen and jammed all the wires deeper into the blades on the connector and wiggled the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of the plugs and sound is working now.  I'll reflow all the solder connections on these connectors this weekend just to make sure.  This is so awesome!

thomas_surles

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2016, 05:08:14 am »
That joust looks like it's in great shape. Aside from the issues that you are fixing is there anything wrong that I am missing on the cabinet itself?

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2016, 10:35:25 am »
Not really.  CP has no gouges or cracks.  One small cigarette burn.  Right side has some scratches in the art, but nothing that can't be touched up.  Left side has a chunk on the edge where it looks like something smashed into the edge of the plywood.  It's about a 4" area.  If I was keeping this machine, I'd just Bondo the area and touch up paint.  It still has the original screen printed bezel and marquee that looks great.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 10:41:09 am by Slippyblade »

thomas_surles

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2016, 04:58:42 pm »
Wait I thought you were keeping the joust?

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2016, 07:40:34 pm »
Wait I thought you were keeping the joust?
I'm keeping one of them. There are two in the queue.

thomas_surles

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2016, 07:43:20 pm »
Wait I thought you were keeping the joust?
I'm keeping one of them. There are two in the queue.
Ok now I get it.

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2016, 07:11:47 pm »
Two steps forward, one step back.

The Joust is working, I re-flowed all the connector pins and it powers on reliably now.  Sound seems to be pretty reliable, but I am getting occasional clicking sounds that seem random.  I am also getting random reboots.  The screen will swap to a random solid color, swap to vertical bars,  and then to the carpet pattern and reboot.  No pattern, completely random.

Anybody know how to test individual RAM chips?

cw

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2016, 09:13:00 pm »
ram test is built into the game.. go get the manual.... the rebooting is i am betting power going up and down. 

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2016, 02:31:01 am »
ram test is built into the game..

Yes, I realize there is a boot up RAM test.  But that doesn't mean that something isn't happening AFTER initial boot.  Maybe when it warms up, for example.

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2016, 07:14:43 pm »
I think cw was referring to the diagnostics mode tests . The Williams manuals are pretty good for helping basic troubleshooting -- a quick search will get you a copy.

There are a couple of other resources for Williams troubleshooting that I've used -- the repair logs from Gregg Woodcock and Mike Ranger (who happens to be a really nice guy and was kind enough to sell me his prized Joust cocktail). Links are in the wiki (Gregg's logs are in the archives at Mike's Arcade):

http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Restoration

FWIW, lots of the problems I have seen with Williams machines can be traced to those godawful connectors and voltage problems.

EDIT -- Really cool deal you've worked, BTW.  :cheers:
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Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2016, 04:09:14 am »
Yeah.  Getting the manuals was the very first thing I did.  I'm a big fan of RTFM.  Run through all the on-board diagnostics and they all come back just fine.  Voltages check out across the board as well. 

I'm gonna replace all the connectors later this week, see if that helps.

paigeoliver

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2016, 10:07:53 pm »
You aren't charging enough. Broken Joust is worth like $350 tops.

At that value you are fixing those other games at $50 each, and what happens if you can only fix 6 of them? You should be getting an average of $100 per repaired game here, plus parts whenever that is significant.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2016, 01:34:28 am »
If I was an actual tech, I'd agree with you, Paige.  The fact is, I have no idea what I'm doing and an using it as a learning experience.   I get the Joust regardless of the outcome of the other machines.  The owner is the son of a long time friend, so it's "friends and family" time.

Aceldamor

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2016, 01:08:20 pm »
Just remember slippy, there is a huge community here in AZ that would be happy to help you out.

When you get to the Tut let me know...there are 2 interlock switches on that cab...the one on the front is typically the issue, as it's on a shelf that holds the board. The issue is the shelf doesn't lock so if the game gets moved at a steep angle the shelf slips back and the interlock pops out. 1 screw fixes that.
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Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2016, 01:17:53 pm »
When you get to the Tut let me know...there are 2 interlock switches on that cab...the one on the front is typically the issue, as it's on a shelf that holds the board. The issue is the shelf doesn't lock so if the game gets moved at a steep angle the shelf slips back and the interlock pops out. 1 screw fixes that.


That's a good tip, thanks! 

This whole project actually got put on hold for a time.  We had a sudden, unexpected, and serious upgrade of a move.  New house has a two-car garage that is becoming my new shop, a studio for my wife's art, and a large front room which is being dedicated as the game room.  I'm gonna be spending this weekend unpacking, organizing, and setting stuff up. Hope to be able to get some work done on the machines on Sunday.

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2016, 01:31:49 pm »
When you get to the Tut let me know...there are 2 interlock switches on that cab...the one on the front is typically the issue, as it's on a shelf that holds the board. The issue is the shelf doesn't lock so if the game gets moved at a steep angle the shelf slips back and the interlock pops out. 1 screw fixes that.


That's a good tip, thanks! 

This whole project actually got put on hold for a time.  We had a sudden, unexpected, and serious upgrade of a move.  New house has a two-car garage that is becoming my new shop, a studio for my wife's art, and a large front room which is being dedicated as the game room.  I'm gonna be spending this weekend unpacking, organizing, and setting stuff up. Hope to be able to get some work done on the machines on Sunday.

If you can make it, head up to Star Fighters tonight...a big group is going to welcome back Brian.
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Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2016, 01:37:40 pm »
I got the message from Yots, don't think I can make it though.  Just got too much to do at home this weekend.

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2016, 08:52:39 pm »
Slippy's moving on up! Congratz, brother!
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Slippyblade

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2016, 12:29:51 am »
Yep.  Tut was that second interlock switch. There is a small graphical glitch along the top edge of the screen though.  I think I'll poke at that for a bit and see what I can find.  The rest of the screen is bright and crisp, so I don't think it's the CRT.

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2016, 02:33:17 am »
We had a sudden, unexpected, and serious upgrade of a move.  New house has a two-car garage that is becoming my new shop, a studio for my wife's art, and a large front room which is being dedicated as the game room.  I'm gonna be spending this weekend unpacking, organizing, and setting stuff up.

Wow, congrats!  That is great to hear.   :cheers:

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2017, 02:15:03 am »
Back to it.  Joust is good to go.  The joysticks were "fixed" well enough by simply swapping parts around randomly between the two.  They both work reliably, albeit loosely.  Replaced the bulbs in the P1/P2 start sockets just for kicks and attacked the CP with a magic sponge.

The Tut is not fixable.  After I had zero luck I took it to a repair party and J-Rok worked on it for over half an hour.  That man is a wizard, I swear.  Anyway, he determined that the custom color mixing chip was bad.  Only way to fix it is to scavenge that chip off a donor board.  Oh well. 

Slippyblade

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Re: Next two machines on the repair block!!
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2017, 02:22:55 am »
Poked around inside the Pac Man tonight.  Played around with the CRT adjustments pots and the red hue went away.  Screen now looks gorgeous!  The right edge does kinda streak upwards a hair.  As in the tunnel kinda dips up.  Also once in a while the screen kinda flips out in a way I think is possibly vert/horiz hold.  I'm gonna go dig up a manual on this CRT now and see what it says!

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2017, 02:11:15 pm »
You aren't charging enough. Broken Joust is worth like $350 tops.


  Its worth what somebody will pay for it,... I got offered 1200 for mine (unrestored) and didn't sell it.

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Re: First two machines brought home
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2017, 12:35:30 am »
You aren't charging enough. Broken Joust is worth like $350 tops.


  Its worth what somebody will pay for it,... I got offered 1200 for mine (unrestored) and didn't sell it.

If you got offered $1200 for a broken Joust and didn't take it, well, I have some more deals for you.
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Re: Next two machines on the repair block!!
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2017, 08:46:38 am »
   I don't get what your saying.... I got a pickup for the last one I had, (1500). But good deals? ya not craigslist friend.

Slippyblade

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Re: Next two machines on the repair block!!
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2017, 11:20:27 pm »
Turns out that a wire [blue/black] was literally falling out of the crimp pin in the monitor plug.  When it's connected, great screen, not connected, red screen.  I'm concerned about another wire in the same bundle though, just sorta hanging there...  with no obvious place to live.  I started a new thread here

« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 11:49:28 pm by Slippyblade »

  
 

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