Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news


  

Author Topic: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues  (Read 4100 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

GameTech

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« on: May 26, 2016, 04:31:23 pm »
Not sure what's going on here, but I've Emailed this Ryan guy like 4 times without response.  I purchased a bartop kit (DIY version) and received it, but it was horrible.  He sent out a replacement control panel, but after working with the wood and trying to stain it, it turned out bad.  I've ask him to send me the Photoshop files, so I can create my own graphics to stick over the stained wood.. Zero response.  It's been over 2 weeks.

Anyone else having problems with this guy/business?

I just purchased the two player Xmo kit, which my emails state it was filled and shipped.. but his customer service emails are not getting answered.

Please help anyone?  Phone # for this business?

Thanks
 :banghead:
Greetings From The Lord Humongous!

yotsuya

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15915
  • 2014 UCA Winner, 2014, 2015, 2016 ZapCon Winner
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137636.msg1420628.html
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2016, 04:35:30 pm »
That's not a vendor I'm familiar with.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

pbj

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5759
  • Obey.
    • The Chris Burke Band
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2016, 07:20:29 pm »
I bet you'd get his attention if you filed a chargeback. 

harveybirdman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2355
  • SHMUP'EM
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2016, 12:01:48 am »
This is why you buy bartop kits from Haruman's Customs.

However in fairness, what happens with kits after you get them is on you. Probably best to discuss materials up front especially if you are considering a stain finish.

As far as tracking on your outstanding order does their site break down shipping expectations?   I've never seen call out threads generally work in a buyers favor, especially when traffic around our site is pretty slow as of late.  Perhaps it's better to explore other channels? Do they have a social media presence?

Good luck, hope it works out for you. If so start a build thread.



Rick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
  • Bartop, Cocktail and Pinball Arcade Cabinets
    • Gameroom Designs Canada
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2016, 08:08:29 am »
Over two weeks is pretty bad, but maybe the guy's having some life issues he needs to sort out. I know a lot of companies that service our hobby are no more than a couple of people fulfilling orders, and when bad things happen, it's sometimes hard to get back to those asking the question. Perhaps it's that type of issue. Or, maybe your email got stuck in his spam folder. I've had that happen before, which is why I check mine regularly.

I'm also with Harvey. Check their Facebook/Twitter, etc.

HaRuMaN

  • Supreme Solder King
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9933
  • boom
    • Arcade Madness
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2016, 11:07:28 am »
He hasn't logged on here since September of last year.

GameTech

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2016, 12:14:17 pm »
Thanks guys... Yep I learned my lesson.

I'm calling my CC company now.  I want the whole thing reversed.   I will post pics of his work... It will blow you away (not good).

Haruman, I will only buy from you from now on. :)

Ive sent emails to his: ryan@gameroomsolutions.com & info@gameroomsolutions.com

Zero responses over two weeks.   I need the Photoshop files so I can create my down graphics to cover up the stain.  It was to be included in my bartop purchase... never got it.

Ugh!

Greetings From The Lord Humongous!

GameTech

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2016, 12:19:38 pm »
Greetings From The Lord Humongous!

pbj

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5759
  • Obey.
    • The Chris Burke Band
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2016, 12:45:22 pm »
Post the pics.

 :pics

Slippyblade

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2938
  • And to the death god we say, "Not today!"
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2016, 02:12:06 pm »
Post the pics.

 :pics

Cabinet porn!!!

GameTech

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2016, 02:49:45 pm »
Greetings From The Lord Humongous!

Slippyblade

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2938
  • And to the death god we say, "Not today!"
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2016, 03:00:28 pm »
Holy crap.  That sure isn't CNC work.  That looks like dull jig-saw hacks.

Yeah, I'd be pissed.

pbj

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5759
  • Obey.
    • The Chris Burke Band
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2016, 03:03:22 pm »
Today, OP delivered.

I hope your chargeback goes well.  That is ridiculous.


Rick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
  • Bartop, Cocktail and Pinball Arcade Cabinets
    • Gameroom Designs Canada
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2016, 03:26:10 pm »
I stand corrected. This isn't just poor customer service. This is a guy not caring who gets what. I removed melamine-covered particle board from my shop because I was getting the random chip on the opposite side - like, one small 1/16" chip - but this is unacceptable from ANY vendor. He knew what he sent out, and didn't care. It's too obvious NOT to know.

I feel sorry for you, OP.

Stryder

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2016, 11:54:38 pm »
You know what's crazy, is I just emailed this Ryan guy today about possibly getting on of his kits. I was asking him a mounting question, and I got a response back after about 25 minutes.

So, he's answering email -- just not the OP's. Something about his site and videos was making my spidey sense tingle.

I'm glad I didn't cancel my controller order with Paradise Arcade, and go with this guy.

I guess I'm sticking to my original plan of MDF and following these instructions: http://www.instructables.com/id/2-Player-Bartop-Arcade-Machine-Powered-by-Pi/ -- they seem to be pretty popular.

GameTech

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2016, 02:59:58 pm »
Seriously?  This guy is totally avoiding me then.  I did tell him how disappointed I was with this kit a while back... But this is BS.   All I need to finish this thing up is to get those Photoshop templates and add my own graphics.. then get them printed out.  I'd be done.

Why wont this guy respond to me and make things right?  I dont understand some people.   They want a business, yet provide almost zero customer service and/or put out garbage products are expect people will just bend over.

Buyer Beware of this site/guy.


Sucks!   
Greetings From The Lord Humongous!

Stryder

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2016, 04:17:58 pm »
That sucks man. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'd post your experience on Reddit's /r/retroipie site too...let people know to avoid this guy.


Rick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
  • Bartop, Cocktail and Pinball Arcade Cabinets
    • Gameroom Designs Canada
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2016, 06:32:23 pm »
That sucks man. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'd post your experience on Reddit's /r/retroipie site too...let people know to avoid this guy.
Someone asked about buying from this guy yesterday, and I jumped in with a pointer to this thread. If you want to make more known about it, I'd recommend posting in r/cade. That's where most arcade enthusiasts seem to hang out.

Stryder

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2016, 07:10:10 pm »
That sucks man. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'd post your experience on Reddit's /r/retroipie site too...let people know to avoid this guy.
Someone asked about buying from this guy yesterday, and I jumped in with a pointer to this thread. If you want to make more known about it, I'd recommend posting in r/cade. That's where most arcade enthusiasts seem to hang out.

That was me, on Reddit!

Still happy I dodged a bullet on that one. Trust me, if I knew the wife wouldn't have a fit I'd get a kit from you or Haruman Customs.

Rick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
  • Bartop, Cocktail and Pinball Arcade Cabinets
    • Gameroom Designs Canada
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2016, 09:09:00 pm »


That was me, on Reddit!

Still happy I dodged a bullet on that one. Trust me, if I knew the wife wouldn't have a fit I'd get a kit from you or Haruman Customs.

Reddit is a great resource for those not on our forums, and I'm glad we could help out.

I've never seen anything bad about these guys until I saw what you had received, and I really hope the company can fix up their products for future customers. I've read a bunch of warning threads on KLOV about various sellers, and it makes me sad to think people trying to get into the hobby are seeing so much negativity. It's not good for the hobby, and certainly not good for business.

monkeybomb

  • PM me to find out how to get a custom title like mine!
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1233
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2016, 10:01:13 pm »
Is this it?

https://gameroomsolutions.com/shop/bartop-arcade-kit/

It's $94 shipped and the button holes in the pic look like yours.

JDFan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2664
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2016, 12:08:12 pm »
Is this it?

https://gameroomsolutions.com/shop/bartop-arcade-kit/

It's $94 shipped and the button holes in the pic look like yours.

Actually that pic looks quite a bit better than the pics he posted - notice there is no blow out of the plywood between the holes and the sides in the ad do not have the blow out on the plywood either -- He says they may require a light sanding in the pic but from the product received it's more like some light to medium wood filling and then a full sanding that is needed to clean up the edges and blow out between the button holes. ( It's probably a combination of using a dull blade for cutting, cutting at too high of a cut speed and the cheap quality wood he is using - Notice even in his pics there are a bunch of hollow spots in the plywood layers which would explain some of the blowout since the layers are not bonded together completely and there are hollow spaces in the layering that catch the dull blade and blow out chunks of the top layer.

Sure the $94 price shipped pretty much ensures that he is using a cheap plywood but he needs to either sharpen the blades he is cutting with or decrease the cut speed to at least minimize the damage. 

monkeybomb

  • PM me to find out how to get a custom title like mine!
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1233
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2016, 03:46:24 pm »
I took a closer look and you're right.  I guess I'm just so used to getting something that's different from what I ordered as an amazon shopper, that the OPs pics actually meet the expectations I had when I decided not to buy one of these.  Hopefully the OP can get his money back and put it toward a better kit from Haruman.  I certainly love my Golden Age Vertical.

GameTech

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2016, 02:51:48 pm »
Update:  Ok finally got a response back from Ryan at GRS.com.  He said he was traveling and out.   But get this... he said he doesnt have the Photoshop templates for the bartop I just purchased from him.... so he sent me a "weecade" file and said it needs to be adapted to work.

wtf?>

This guy created a YT video of him putting together his own bartop and showing how to make graphics for the sides, control panel, etc.. yet now he doesnt have the templates he used in the said video??

Done with this guy/business...   Buyer beware IMO...  OH and the pix I posted are AFTER I used a razorblade to cut off about 1/2" of tear from within the button holes.. I actually cleaned them up a bit... It still doesnt justify his CNC work.. because its just that.. its not. It's a jigsaw done blow out job to ship DIY kits for $100.  Hell, he charged me $115 for that kit.

I'll be sure to go with the tried and true here on this board... lesson learned.  But, I still think I can make this bartop great... just need to figure out how to create vinyl graphics to put on outsides, control panel and marquee... this will cover up the nicks, dents, blow out and more around button holes and side panels..

Thanks!
Greetings From The Lord Humongous!

pbj

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5759
  • Obey.
    • The Chris Burke Band
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2016, 02:56:37 pm »
So.... you didn't call your credit card company, did you?


GameTech

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2016, 11:28:00 pm »
I did and they said if he has proof items shipped to me, they can't do much.  Damn credit unions.

So, I'm just going to finish this up... I really don't have the time to keep dicking around....

Thanks all for support... Peace
Greetings From The Lord Humongous!

shaunster

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2016, 12:48:32 am »
This is strange... I just ordered from Ryan a couple months ago. I never really had any problems with him aside from him kinda being short with me when I emailed him. He did answer me fairly quick though. I ordered the deluxe bartop kit and he even got me a wicked deal on shipping to Canada. It was only like $20 bucks US which is great for something that size going international.

The deluxe bartop kit is made out of cnc cut MDF coated in black melamine and not ---smurfy--- plywood like the regular kit. And I agree, that cut job on yours looks horrible. I'd be pissed as well.

I bought joysticks, buttons, and created my own artwork for him to print out, which I then applied myself. All this without any hitches.

I actually just finished building my cabinet last week. I spent wayyyyyy too much money building this thing. But I think in the end it was all worth it.

Here's a pic;

http://imgur.com/DeWYm8a

And I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with Ryan.

Shaun

neo117

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2016, 12:19:44 pm »
Shaun, that is a nice finished product!
I too ordered from Ryan via ebay back in december. the cabinet came with a few damaged pieces that Ryan was quick to either replace or cover with a free vinyl kit. I chose the replacement parts as one of the pieces looked a little too damaged to salvage. he was also quick to answer a few other questions as well.
overall i am happy with the product.
I would say that there is some minor quality control issues with the kit, a chip here a chip there, but overall it is very nice. I have no frame of reference to compare him to other vendors (looks like Haruman is the only other option?) but i would say that the kit was well put together and is also the only comprehensive kit i have seen with button options, controllers, etc  and even tutorials on the site. is there room for improvement? sure, based on my quick search there isn't a lot of other options out there.
I will probably order a Haruman kit as well as i want a 1 player vertical cabinet and Ryan does not offer them.
all that said....would i order from Ryan again? probably. based on the stories i have heard here, i would probably do it via ebay again, as it provides additional protection. I would also recommend a vinyl kit as having that would more or less eliminate any quality issue i have seen in the product.

Rick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
  • Bartop, Cocktail and Pinball Arcade Cabinets
    • Gameroom Designs Canada
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2016, 01:20:18 pm »
I have no frame of reference to compare him to other vendors (looks like Haruman is the only other option?)

There are a number of vendors in the U.S., however, none of them seem to be as active in the community as Haruman. When it comes to responsiveness, and the ability to get it right, he's The Man. (I'll say I was pretty sure you meant "in the U.S." as there's one pretty good company up here in Canada.)

;)

HaRuMaN

  • Supreme Solder King
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9933
  • boom
    • Arcade Madness
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2016, 01:27:13 pm »
I have no frame of reference to compare him to other vendors (looks like Haruman is the only other option?)

There are a number of vendors in the U.S., however, none of them seem to be as active in the community as Haruman. When it comes to responsiveness, and the ability to get it right, he's The Man. (I'll say I was pretty sure you meant "in the U.S." as there's one pretty good company up here in Canada.)

;)

So where's this good Canadian company?   ;D  I kid I kid.  Rick's got the great white north handled.   :cheers:

Rick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
  • Bartop, Cocktail and Pinball Arcade Cabinets
    • Gameroom Designs Canada
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2016, 01:49:17 pm »
So where's this good Canadian company?   ;D  I kid I kid.

Thanks, Yotsuya. ;)

pbj

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5759
  • Obey.
    • The Chris Burke Band
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2016, 03:01:16 pm »
Go to any arcade convention, there will be at least 10 bozos selling weecades.  Well, offering them for sale.


harveybirdman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2355
  • SHMUP'EM
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2016, 03:14:16 pm »
Go to any arcade convention, there will be at least 10 bozos selling weecades.  Well, offering them for sale.

yup...

Men's Room Arcade tried to impress me with their particle board cocktail with a 60 in 1 and a LCD display at ZapCon....

Naturally I took a picture of his card in the urinal....

Rick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
  • Bartop, Cocktail and Pinball Arcade Cabinets
    • Gameroom Designs Canada
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2016, 03:15:47 pm »
Go to any arcade convention, there will be at least 10 bozos selling weecades.  Well, offering them for sale.

Ok, I'll bite.

Is it really necessary to call 'em names? I mean, I DO get it. I'm not a fan of producing the open source designs either, but there IS work that goes into creating a GOOD looking arcade machine. Hell, my shortcoming is not having arcade themed artwork, so when I see a good Weecade or Degenatrons build, it usually has amazing art and good quality parts. The definitely helps selling them, I'm sure, but for people who can't (or choose not to) build their own, I can't fault them for keeping the arcades relevant.

pbj

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5759
  • Obey.
    • The Chris Burke Band
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2016, 03:37:26 pm »
Man, look at the Canadian getting offended over here.


Rick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
  • Bartop, Cocktail and Pinball Arcade Cabinets
    • Gameroom Designs Canada
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2016, 03:39:35 pm »
Man, look at the Canadian getting offended over here.

I'm sorry.

yotsuya

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15915
  • 2014 UCA Winner, 2014, 2015, 2016 ZapCon Winner
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137636.msg1420628.html
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2016, 04:21:19 pm »
I have noticed quite a few vendors here and KLOV pop up over the years offering to sell weecades and bar tops. I can also think of a few that apparently have flamed out.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

yotsuya

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15915
  • 2014 UCA Winner, 2014, 2015, 2016 ZapCon Winner
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137636.msg1420628.html
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2016, 04:22:40 pm »
So where's this good Canadian company?   ;D  I kid I kid.

Thanks, Yotsuya. ;)
Dude, you're falling out of my top 5 Canadians list.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

SNAAKE

  • Trade Count: (+29)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3373
  • my joystick is bigger than your joystick !
    • gamestation
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2016, 11:13:22 am »
why did you even bother with that cabinet kit. if you are paying for a kit then it should be ready to use when you put it together and not have to stain/color it.

I like haruman's kit wayyyyyy better. the black melamine finish is perfect even tho I used artwork.

HaRuMaN

  • Supreme Solder King
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9933
  • boom
    • Arcade Madness
Re: GameRoomSolutions.com Issues
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2016, 11:20:05 am »
why did you even bother with that cabinet kit. if you are paying for a kit then it should be ready to use when you put it together and not have to stain/color it.

I like haruman's kit wayyyyyy better. the black melamine finish is perfect even tho I used artwork.

Thanks man!  I also do properly cut plywood cabinets (birch) for those who prefer that.  Here's a plywood widescreen that went out not too long ago:




  
 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31