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Author Topic: Thinking about buying an up-scaler  (Read 1985 times)

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Locke141

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Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« on: May 14, 2016, 06:48:19 am »
Update: I got an OSSC and love it.

Last year I bought a Rhea (SD-drive) for my Sega Saturn. Only to discover after returning home to the United States (I'm an expat) that my beloved child hood Sega Saturn had died. I ordered a new one on eBay but the seller posted a photo of a model one and sent a model 2. In short, I had to order a second Saturn but by the time it arrived I returned over seas.

This year I'm so excited to get it all working. One problem I would like to solve before hand is the upscaling. At $400 USD the XRGB-mini Framemeister  is out. After some research I decided the OSSC ($100'ish) would be the best fit for me. Now the issue is you can no longer buy the DYI kits and the pre-made versions are not available yet. So, I headed back to retrogaming hazard-city and read about LENKENG LKV362. Does any one have one? If so would you recommend it?

Does any one have a different scaler they would recommend for under $150. Preferably with SCART input to go with one of these ?

« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 12:28:09 am by Locke141 »

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2016, 08:49:14 am »
I jumped in and bought the upscaler and cables. I'll report back with results.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 10:12:08 pm by Locke141 »

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2016, 03:11:17 pm »
I can't tell you much.  For older/funkier systems I have a v2v pro.  I think it was about 30-40 bucks.  It only supports composite and svideo, but outputs to vga instead of hdmi.  This is the way to go as you can purchase an inexpensive scan line generator (15-20 bucks on ebay, or a couple of bucks if you build your own) and have a fairly competent display. 

Now for systems that have rgb/scart I haven't found a satisfactory solution.  I got one of those arcade upscaler boards but the thing refused to sync with my snes, so back it went.  I deally I would like a rgb 2 vga box so that I can put a scanline generator inline. 

One thing in my testing of various units that you want to keep in mind is the fact that the hdmi converters often screw up the aspect ratio. 

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2016, 09:20:57 pm »
Thanks man for the advice.
I realy want the OSSO but it's not out yet. If it works as the reviews say it should solve all the issue you listed.

I just started looking in the the whole RGB seen and it can get spendy quick. I'm willing to bet that from a couch 99% of people could not see any diffidence beaten a used $1200 production RGB Monitor and a used $100 componite CRT TV. It seems to be like the audio file seen. I wish SCART was common in the US.

I thought HDMI was just DVI with a different head and audio added. Could you not just get a box with HDMI out and use a pass through HDMI to VGA? Or does HDMI not have the DVI lines for analog RGD?

Howard_Casto

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2016, 10:38:32 pm »
From what I've tested anyway it seems to be less about the formats and more about the quality of the signal the console outputs and the quality of the converter box.  The NES, for example, outputs a really clear composite signal if you hook it up to a tv that properly up-scales 240p.  The genesis/megadrive, on the other hand, is blurry as hell.    The snes outputs a really clear svideo signal, so clear I doubt rgb would improve much.  The n64 outputs a really dark svid signal to the point of which you almost need a amp of some sort. 

It's the same deal with the converter boxes... some of good quality composite up-scalers almost look better than some of the cheaper component ones. 

About the aspect ratio thing I don't think it has anything to do with the hdmi format itself, it's just how the up-scalers are designed... some people equate hd with a 16:9 ratio I guess.

You are right about the rgb thing though, it's just that consoles are weird.  If you are going to hook a bunch up you need to either have a solution to each video format or mod them all (if possible) to support one format.  Nintendo likes s-video but hates rgb, Sega likes rgb but hates svideo.... you don't get the option because the other format isn't supported. 

Answering your last question, sure you can convert hdmi to vga but you would be taking an analog format (rgb) converting it to a digital format (hdmi) and then back to an analog format (vga).  That would have to introduce some lag.  Dvi and hdmi are similar, but vga is analog and due to how easy it is to manipulate analog video all scan line generators that don't cost a fortune need vga. 

Shoot I'm not hung up on scanlines or the best possible format or all of that stuff in the first place.  The genesis, again as a good example, might look blurry but the developers took advantage of that.  So yeah rgb up-scaled would be the sharpest picture, but you can then see all the dithering the devs used to fake transparency.  It seems to be a console by console thing. 

Howard_Casto

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2016, 12:39:26 am »
I was browsing aliexpress and apparently they have quite a selection of scart to hdmi converters, many as low as 20 dollars.  They also have inexpensive scart cables for several systems.  For that price I might risk getting one and report back the results. 

I sware, that site is like some kind of honey trap for me... every time I look around I end up buying a bunch of stuff I had no intention of buying. 

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2016, 09:16:45 am »
The one I ordered was from aliexspress. But $57. It had good reviews. I should be back in the US some point in Mid June. I also spend way more the I should on SCART cables for Satern and Gen/32X.

aliexspress Is like crack. I almost buy a CNC laser ever time I login.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 12:07:13 am by Locke141 »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2016, 12:18:46 pm »
Yeah I saw those as well.  I was kind of wanting to get a cheaper one just to see if it's possible to get away with a cheaper one.  In theory at least, converting something that's already r,g,b,sync to hdmi should be trivial so I'm unsure why some of these converters are so expensive.  57 bucks isn't bad at all though. 

Some of the scart converters do s-video and composite as well though.  For someone wanting an all in one solution, soldering on the extra connectors might be worth it as scart cables can get pricey, especially for consoles that don't do rgb.  I'm pretty sure a vga scanline generator can be adapted to work inline with scart (for the rgb stuff at least) as well. 

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2016, 12:30:01 pm »
In total agreement. was just looking at this one and thinking the same. I read that not all out put in 3:4. Please let me know how the one you get works out.

I don't even want to think about what I just dropped on SCART cables for my SEGA consoles. On top of that the more I read, the more I'm convinced that YPrPb is just as good on a good CRT TV. 

The OSSC seem's to check off all the boxes for what we both want. I hope snag one when they become available again.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 12:08:19 am by Locke141 »

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2016, 04:25:37 pm »
Well you have to be careful.  The one you linked to is a hdmi to scart.... it's going the wrong way.  They sell one identical to it that does scart to hdmi though... I think it's about 10 bucks more. 

I'm still browsing, which is probably a bad idea as it takes two decades to get something after you order it from china. 

Howard_Casto

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2016, 04:38:29 pm »
In addition to the one you linked to (the proper version of it anyway) I was looking at this one:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-NEW-Full-HD-1080P-SCART-to-HDMI-Scaler-Box-Video-Converter-with-Scaler-adapter-Box/32580329820.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.132.n6a3AJ&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_5_10037_10017_10021_507_10022_10032_10009_10020_10008_10018_10019_101,searchweb201603_6&btsid=bc0decb6-7524-4f74-b891-43ca1a91a8c1

In the description it specifically mentions YC (svideo) and RGB connections, meaning that hopefully it isn't like some of the cheaper ones that are actually just composite upscalers with a scart socket on the end.  In addition it mentions "automatic 2:2 / 3:2 flim mode detection" which, when translated from engrish, means it should preserve the aspect ratio.

From what I've read, you want upscalers with a push-button, not a switch for the resolution.  The ones with buttons are mostly software driven and thus have more resolution modes than advertised.   

That's the cheapest one I can possibly find and I'll probably order it tomorrow.  If you can find another one that might be a better unit to test let me know. 

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2016, 08:48:27 pm »
That's the cheapest one I can possibly find and I'll probably order it tomorrow.  If you can find another one that might be a better unit to test let me know.

Thanks man if I don't love the one I ordered I'll try that one. You should try the $360 Min-XRGB and let us know if it lives up to its reputation.  ::)

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2016, 01:37:42 pm »
And no video :banghead:



Tested it on my working Saturn and master system. On another note both of my model one Genesis are not working. But I'll start another thread on my efforts to bring them back.

If any one has any ideas I'm all years.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 12:13:10 am by Locke141 »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2016, 02:08:23 pm »
Ok we can go down the checklist, but I'm sure you already have.

Are they pal or ntsc consoles?  Do your scart cables match? (yes, there is such a thing as a ntsc scart cable). 
Have you inspected the cable to make sure it actually has the correct pins connected?  You should be able to remove the cover of any scart cable by unscrewing the nut. 
What about a sync stripper?  Do you need one? 
If you've got the cables, maybe try something you know will work, like a scart vcr or something.
If it's got a button press it. I know on the v2v pro I had to go through several video modes before it synced. 

As for the genesis I was having issues with mine and it turned out that the power switch had gone slack over all those years.  A firm Push to the on position fixed it. 


Start researching now.  Aliexpress only guarantees refunds for 30 days or so.  You never know if you'll get a shady vendor.

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 10:55:25 pm »
Are they pal or ntsc consoles?  Do your scart cables match? Yep, both are NTSC


Have you inspected the cable to make sure it actually has the correct pins connected? No I have not but both cables were ordered just for this purpose and from a well-known vendor that specializes in retro console cables. I'll take a look   

What about a sync stripper?  Do you need one?  I don't know. The upscaler could require something odd  but I think Retro RGB or the SCART vender would have said something. I'll do some more reading.

If you've got the cables, maybe try something you know will work, like a scart vcr or something. Nope and no.

If it's got a button press it. I know on the v2v pro I had to go through several video modes before it synced. Only one and it's more 1080p or 720p.

As for the genesis I was having issues with mine and it turned out that the power switch had gone slack over all those years.  A firm Push to the on position fixed it. I think Mine may need some new caps or have all the points cleaned. 


Howard_Casto

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2016, 11:08:54 pm »
Well  keep at it is the only advice I can give you.  I messed with one of those arcade cga 2 vga boards for days before coming to the conclusion that it was the board.  Hopefully mine will come in soon and it's more usable. 

I think I would check over at a sega console forum and see what they say.... sometimes it's something as trivial as adding extra resistors in-line. 

joeH

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2016, 12:44:13 am »
Here is my solution for my Sega Saturn:

Saturn -> SCART cable -> Sync Strike -> GBS8220 -> SLG3000 -> VGA connector into 1080p monitor. 

The games look fantastic.  ArcadeForge does make the SLG-in-a-Box which combines the Sync Strike, GBS8220, and the SLG3000.  But since I'm in the US, I found an Ebay auction for the Sync Strike and the SLG3000 and just purchased the GBS8220 separately. 

http://arcadeforge.net/SLG-in-a-Box/SLG-in-a-Box::71.html

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2016, 01:09:46 am »
Some other options for cheap mofos like myself:

http://retrorgb.com/syncstripper.html

The solder on a chip method is particularly thrifty and due to it's small size you can just put it inside your scart connector.

I probably need to order some myself for the inevitable issues I'll run into once mine comes in. 

Joe's 100% correct btw... if you are going to go the slg in a box route, buy the parts separately on ebay..... the arcade forge guys are charging you a premium for the kit. 

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2016, 12:12:21 am »

Saturn -> SCART cable -> Sync Strike -> GBS8220 -> SLG3000 -> VGA connector into 1080p monitor. 

http://arcadeforge.net/SLG-in-a-Box/SLG-in-a-Box::71.html

So do we all think I may have a Sync issue? I'll try to resolve this first. Your set up looks like a good way to go but how if the lag with three different devises all doing something to the stream?

Howard, I will try the chip option first as I want to see if mine was a wast and because I think the OSSO is going to be my final solution. I did how ever order a GBS8220 as I been meaning to get one for a while and this is as good a time as any.

Also posting over at a saturn forum for help.   


Howard_Casto

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2016, 12:24:54 am »
I'm honestly not sure, but it couldn't hurt to try. 

I ordered the gbs8220 originally and could never get the thing to work.  RetroRGB (excellent site btw) swore up and down that the snes didn't need a sync stripper, but I never could get it to sync properly.  The thing was, the window for returns was running out and I didn't want to be stuck with a defective unit.  I asked here but I got crickets at the time, so back it went. 

So this time I'm thinking that you can get 10 of those chips for peanuts and it's a simple solder job.... so going ahead and building a couple couldn't hurt.  If the quality is bad there is always the option to buy a professionally built unit.

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2016, 12:41:28 am »
I'm honestly not sure, but it couldn't hurt to try. 

I ordered the gbs8220 originally and could never get the thing to work.  RetroRGB (excellent site btw) swore up and down that the snes didn't need a sync stripper, but I never could get it to sync properly.  The thing was, the window for returns was running out and I didn't want to be stuck with a defective unit.  I asked here but I got crickets at the time, so back it went. 

So this time I'm thinking that you can get 10 of those chips for peanuts and it's a simple solder job.... so going ahead and building a couple couldn't hurt.  If the quality is bad there is always the option to buy a professionally built unit.

Sounds good. If you make one any time soon and feel like making two send me a PM. I would gladly pay you to make me one so I  don't have to do this on my home leave.

I just got an update on the OSSO which would probably solve all these problems. They had a sourcing issue and will only be making 45 in the first batch.

Above youtube video fixed: it says CVBS which is an acronym for composite video.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 07:39:03 pm by Locke141 »

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2016, 12:51:13 pm »
If/when I start on that bit consider it sent.  The packages are coming across the ocean and break neck speed, so I'm guessing they'll make it before I even start ordering parts.

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2016, 07:44:04 pm »
retro_console_accessories who I ordered my SCART cables from, has answered my question and I'm posting the complete reply below. I highly recommend them as a vender.

Quote
Hi,

It seems to be failing to switch to rgb. Many of these cheap Chinese scalers follow the same soec as a SCART tv, ie. They are compatible with either composite video or RGB in SCART, but they use the voltage outputted in a SCART cable to tell them whether to use RGb or composite video.

This is quite a common issue people have which is a failure of this voltage detection circuitry so the scaler always defaults to composite video. I even have one of the faulty scalers with this exact issue.

If a scaler defaults to composite video, one of two things happens. Either it uses the composite video line in SCART instead of the RGb, resulting in a bad quality image. Or, in the case of Csync cables, it displays nothing because CSYNC carries no picture data.

All our cables carry the necessary voltage line to switch to RGB and are tested on one of the scalers with the voltage detection circuitry to make sure it was wired correctly.

I don't think a sync stripper is going to fix this I'm afraid.

I recommend replacing the scaler, preferably with a different model like the one sold by cvid on Amazon. It still uses voltage detection circuitry but I haven't heard of any issues with it to date.

Thank you,

I will be sending this one back and ordering the one she recommends. This is all just a stop gap till I get my OSSO. If after all that I'm still not happy it looks like I'll probably be getting a XRGB mini.

Edit:This is the one I ordered. I think she miss spelled the venders name in her email.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 09:11:08 am by Locke141 »

opt2not

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2016, 08:15:23 pm »
retro_console_accessories who I ordered my SCART cables from, has answered my question and I'm posting the complete reply below. I highly recommend them as a vender.
<snip>
+1, I highly recommend retro_console_accessories. I've bought a few cables from them and their service was excellent, answered all my questions, and they're cables are all made in high quality. 

I will be sending this one back and ordering the one she recommends. This is all just a stop gap till I get my OSSO. If after all that I'm still not happy it looks like I'll probably be getting a XRGB mini.
Hopefully the OSSO does everything you need. Sometimes trying to save a buck ends up costing you more time and effort. The XRGB mini is indeed expensive, but it's the convenience of a no-hassle solution that has a lot of tweakable options for displaying on modern displays that got me. Those are the reasons I went for it. I can't be bothered to spend more time troubleshooting hardware rather than actually playing 'em.

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2016, 12:12:37 am »
retro_console_accessories who I ordered my SCART cables from, has answered my question and I'm posting the complete reply below. I highly recommend them as a vender.
<snip>
+1, I highly recommend retro_console_accessories. I've bought a few cables from them and their service was excellent, answered all my questions, and they're cables are all made in high quality. 

I will be sending this one back and ordering the one she recommends. This is all just a stop gap till I get my OSSO. If after all that I'm still not happy it looks like I'll probably be getting a XRGB mini.
Hopefully the OSSO does everything you need. Sometimes trying to save a buck ends up costing you more time and effort. The XRGB mini is indeed expensive, but it's the convenience of a no-hassle solution that has a lot of tweakable options for displaying on modern displays that got me. Those are the reasons I went for it. I can't be bothered to spend more time troubleshooting hardware rather than actually playing 'em.

The thing I like about the OSSO reviews are that it may have less options but should have less lag then the XRGB mini. Also I still holding out hope that I'll find a large CRT TV with SCART in good shape over seas and just use that. You can't beat the real thing.

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2016, 12:33:27 am »
Well a broadcast  monitor is probably a better way to go.  Instead of scart you'll just have a series of BNC connectors in the back to support any video signal available. 

I don't know about the maximum size though.

opt2not

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2016, 12:59:27 pm »
@Locke141: The lag for the XRGB mini is about 20ms, its not really that noticeable IRL.
But the biggest contributor to lag is actually the TV your using. Each TV is different, and some (most) newer LCD TVs have horrendous lag.
Even if the OSSO is quicker, depending on the LCD/Plasma panel you're playing on, you can still have lag troubles.
Don't let the 20ms lag scare you off, it really isn't bad if you have the right TV.  If you can get a TV that has around 15ms display lag, you'll be in good shape. 

Here's the monitor I use to hook up my XRGB Mini:  http://www.displaylag.com/asus-vn279ql-review-27-amva-low-input-lag/
They're great, and the price is decent these days. I haven't had any lag issues hindering me from playing games properly, and I play shmups and fighting games mostly where pinpoint frames are vital.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 02:02:08 pm by opt2not »

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2016, 08:30:19 pm »
Well mine came in today.  Unfortunately I'm still waiting on cables.  I might still have a snes scart lying around, I don't know.

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2016, 02:20:38 am »
I got impatient so I took 15 min tonight and kludged the scart cable I hacked to bits when I ordered the gbs.  It works! 

So far I'm extremely impressed, especially considering the low price point (only 23 dollars).  Even though only 720p/1080p are advertised, several 4:3 and 16:9 modes are available.  The picture is crisp and the colors are correct.  I fired up a game of super punch-out and went halfway through the minor circuit and as far as I can tell, any lag introduced by the conversion is completely unnoticeable.  The box itself is the same metal box that many of the higher end converters use, so the thing is quite sturdy.  There is a 3.5mm output jack in case you want to output the audio to a stereo system or something.  The box also appears to have memory of your settings, even if you unplug it.

As for the downsides....  There's no off switch, which wouldn't be a big deal except for the fact that both the converter box and the ac adaptor have leds as bright as the sun installed.  I guess that's what tape is for.  When cycling through the various resolutions, the screen probably won't be aligned properly.  You have to turn off the game console and then turn it back on when switching from 4:3 to 16:9.  This appears to be a tv issue more than the box itself.  I see the least bit of shimmer on some games.  It's slight, like you have to get 5 inches from the screen to see it slight.  Right now I'm using an unshielded cable with it's guts out all over the floor, so that might be the issue.  I'll report back tomorrow when I tidy up the cable. 

Even if the shimmer isn't caused by the bad cable the image is super impressive none the less.  With a scanline generator installed it would look even better. 

So there you have it.  It is possible to get a good quality rgb upscaler for a low price.  Now to wait for my genesis cable to come in and make sure it works with them. 


Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2016, 08:20:09 am »
Thanks opt2not,

I'll probably end up getting an XRGB but probably not till after our time in Loas is over. It's not to kind of thing I can justify buying and using only when I'm in the US for a month at a time.

I'm also hoping to pick up a 23 inch CRT TV with SCART. Then I can use light guns.

I'm glad it worked out Howard. From what I have read all these cheep adapters do OK not grate.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2016, 02:09:29 pm »
Well it appears that it isn't shimmering, rather screen tearing caused by de-interlacing.  It only happens when there is rapid horizontal scrolling on the screen and even then it isn't consistently noticable.  From what I've read, the easiest fix is just a scanline generator.... every other line won't be displayed anyway and thus you can no longer see the tearing. 

It seems to depend greatly on the game.  Gradius III obviously has a lot of horizontal movement, but I didn't really see it on that game.  SMW, on the other hand, was pretty noticeable.  It actually ends up looking like a bit of motion blur... the character sprites are still sharp... so maybe this was intentional by the programmers and it just looks weird when upscaled?

I was super tired last night so I probably need to take another look now that my eyes have rested.

I'm going to keep working on my goal of finding/building a budget upscaling solution.  I ordered one of those composite/svid breakout dongles for the unit so I'll so how well it does non rgb consoles.  I'll also finish my homebrew slg and see if that helps the tearing.

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2016, 12:50:58 am »
Ok so my generic dongle came in today, allowing me to hook up consoles that only support svid/composite to the upscaler.  It's kind of a mixed bag.  S-video seems messed up somehow.... I get minor color and picture distortions. Composite actually looks better.  That's the thing though, the composite mode works better than most of the upscalers I've seen....  interlacing issues are there of course, but the picture is quite stable and crisp with very little color bleeding... even with red. 

So I need to compare the svid modes to the v2v pro.  Yeah, more research. 

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2017, 12:17:43 am »
I have gotten a OSSC and so fare it's amazing. I just got to my parents house with my family and new daughter so have not had the time to extensively play around with it yet or even update the Firmware. But it's hands down better then the cheep upscaler I ended up with (not the one I posted about above, that turned out to be composite only) and I was happy with that solution.

I may pick up an CRT with component and try to RGB mod it but for my console collection but for a large modern TV this is an excellent way to go.

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2017, 01:55:30 pm »
Just got my shipping notice for the OSSC 1.6! Really looking forward to trying it out. I heard nothing but great things.

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2017, 03:21:18 pm »
Looking at their product page.  Loved this part:

"there’s no input lag whatsoever"

Which is then immediately followed by:

"(well, a few nanoseconds if you really want to be precise)"

 :dizzy:


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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2017, 03:45:09 pm »
Yeah I guarantee you they didn't get it down to nanoseconds.  A few milliseconds maybe. 

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2017, 04:00:28 pm »
Now, to be fair, 1 millisecond is certainly a 'few' nanoseconds....

 :lol


Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2017, 12:22:37 am »
Mine was faster then I could posable notice. 

Here is a pic from this summer my Saturn on a large LCD. This is not the 720p mode that I need to get working yet, I need to update.

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2017, 12:31:51 am »
Yeah man and several milliseconds can pass before you can notice.  A nanosecond is so short that most conventional tools can't even accurately measure it.  There are one billion nanoseconds in a second.  Milliseconds are a more reasonable unit of measure for consoles, with "only" 1000 in a second.  To give you an idea, a 60fps render would draw a frame about every 16 milliseconds.   Keep in mind that older consoles usually render at 30fps or less and can poll the gamepad even less.  So it'd take quite a while before you'd notice lag in milliseconds and an eternity in nanoseconds. A "few nanoseconds" of lag in any kind of box that does any kind of active video conversion is probably physically impossible. 

Locke141

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Re: Thinking about buying an up-scaler
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2017, 12:43:29 am »
A "few nanoseconds" of lag in any kind of box that does any kind of active video conversion is probably physically impossible.

The box just doubles line's. The 720p mode is just doubles the original 240p image and adds a thread blank line ever 3rd line. Regardless of how fast it really is it's so fast that not noticeable.

  
 

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