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Author Topic: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing  (Read 230276 times)

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ark_ader

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #520 on: August 29, 2017, 03:42:38 am »
So someone found at mention of "VR mode" in the Nintendo switch OS.  If they follow through with it either it'll save VR, or run it into the ground.  So get ready guys.

I think it was a poor attempt at humor, but funny none the less.  :P
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Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #521 on: August 29, 2017, 07:53:39 am »
So someone found at mention of "VR mode" in the Nintendo switch OS.  If they follow through with it either it'll save VR, or run it into the ground.  So get ready guys.

I think it was a poor attempt at humor, but funny none the less.  :P

For once I actually agree with you! :p

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #522 on: August 29, 2017, 12:12:33 pm »
I think it was a poor attempt at humor, but funny none the less.  :P

Don't know if he was being facetious, but he probably should have been.  With a 720p screen, and "tablet-grade" horsepower, it would be more like VD than VR  ;D

N's business model, which seems to be selling repackaged 5-year-old technology for nearly the cost of current tech, in order to upgrade the experience for followers of their dated core software IP, won't work with VR.  At least not until the mid-way point of the next generation of consoles. 

Plain old 3D would probably be a stretch for the current hardware.  If one wanted to sour the masses on VR, this route would probably be more successful in doing so than current cellphone attempts.  Let's hope they don't.

Howard_Casto

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #523 on: August 29, 2017, 12:41:49 pm »
Man you guys just don't get it.  Nintendo doesn't half-ass anything, unlike other companies.  If they decide to do VR they'll be all in, with all the flagship titles having vr support.  It won't be like Sony's half-hearted attempt or the hot mess over on the pc side of things.  The fact that you guys don't get it pretty much explains why you think vr is doing well. 

If they decide to work on vr, it will be completely irrelevant that the tech isn't as good since there will be good games to play on it.... something vr still hasn't given anyone after years of promises.  I mean do you remember the wii?  Overpowered up gamecube, crappy 480p graphics, but it had a good gimmick, and that gimmick was fully supported by Nintendo in all their games, so it beat the pants off of the competition.  Btw all those motion controllers you guys are using with your rigs.... Nintendo says "you're welcome" for making that mainstream and getting the cost of the tech down. 

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #524 on: August 29, 2017, 01:10:15 pm »
You and Nintendo need to get a room.

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #525 on: August 29, 2017, 01:10:57 pm »
Think you have just proved you aint got a glue about VR howard!

There are some excellent games out for VR and more and more slowly filtering in.
DOOM VFR will be out soon and I have high hopes that will exceed Farpoint on the PSVR.

Maybe if you actually tried a good VR game on a good set up you would understand why your comment is so laughable at best!

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #526 on: August 29, 2017, 02:56:04 pm »
Come on now, Howard read an article about VR 4 years ago, it makes him an expert on the subject, you should give him more respect.

Kidding aside, I don't think Nintendo has been a force in gaming for quite a few years.  Aside from a few commercials about the switch a while back, I would have thought they went out of business.  Nintendo's market seems to be overtaken by Android games, while the serious stuff is still in the hands of Sony, MS, and the PC market.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #527 on: August 29, 2017, 02:58:17 pm »
If they decide to do VR they'll be all in, with all the flagship titles having vr support. 

They haven't been "all in" for over a decade.

Quote
I mean do you remember the wii?  Overpowered up gamecube, crappy 480p graphics, but it had a good gimmick, and that gimmick was fully supported by Nintendo in all their games, so it beat the pants off of the competition.  Btw all those motion controllers you guys are using with your rigs.... Nintendo says "you're welcome" for making that mainstream and getting the cost of the tech down.

I remember it, and so does everyone else who relegated it to the closet after a week or so of use.  I believe good VR is too valuable a commodity to squander it away in the public view, the way the Wii did with motion controllers.  And BTW, you should probably do a little research on the technology used with VR controllers, before comparing them to the Wii's, which basically used off the shelf tech anyway.  Aside from those  chips, the Move controllers use very different technology, which existed before the Wii.  I even sat in on a tech demo at the glasses-free 3D company where I worked long ago, which could track just your hands in much the same way.  It was in it's infancy then, but it worked.

This type of control is essential to VR.  Had it not been re-purposed for VR, it would still exist, Wii or not.


fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #528 on: August 29, 2017, 03:48:10 pm »
Thought the Wii controller was just a wireless mouse pointer? Did it have the ability to track how close or far the controller was to the sensors? I have seen plenty of TV remotes in the last 6 years that can do what the Wii controller did.

ark_ader

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #529 on: August 29, 2017, 04:24:39 pm »
What most of you (and we are talking about most of Howard here) is forgetting is that the wii was instrumental in getting people active when playing games.  Most of the old folk accommodations have a wii in their communal room.  Instead of being a couch potatoe, you ended up being instant mash while playing bowling.  Nintendoh knows all about VR with that red monstrosity, it brought out when we had darker colored hair.

Nintendoh will let VR go with the betamax of Oculus, and wait it out.  Still early days and they are not really into hard core innovation like Sony and M$ are (is).   Remember that betamax is still being used today, will after EOL of VHS but you know what I mean.
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Loafmeister

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #530 on: August 29, 2017, 04:35:04 pm »
Man, I dunno but if Nintendo's "all in approach" gave us the WiiU and the eventual lack of success, I'm worried if VR's future depends on them.

This isn't to say howard isn't at least partially right.  Although there's been some good VR titles, let's be real here, high budget AAA games that take years to develop, well you can count them on a couple of fingers.  If Nintendo or another company REALLY puts their hat in and puts all their top IP's on it, it certainly wouldn't hurt it's success.

The problem is, Nintendo is damn good at offering what I would say "good price ratio".  At the moment looking at what "I" want out of VR (high quality content that looks damn awesome), then I don't see Nintendo throwing their hat in at all, less we get a Gear VR quality VR experience and I'm sorry but that's not what a lot of us want and if the tech isn't high quality enough, that will lead to potential nausea and Nintendo won't touch that with a 10 foot pole.  So maybe Nintendo may jump into VR but it won't be with this tech unless it's a side project or they take the peripheral route and if that is the route they take, you can forget all those IP's showing up unless it is in one "Super Smash Bros" title ;)

Pinball in VR:  Yes, it's not your imagination, the Vive and Rift both support near-zero lag due to our the tech is build. This was one of the crucial components that solved in part the nausea issue (nausea that is tied to refresh rate and frame rate issues, not artificial locomotion).  I think this is done because they use low persistent screens? (I'm no expert!).  Another good Pinball title in VR is Zaccaria Pinball. The VR add-on is a little expensive but IMHO worth it. In saying that, wait for sales if the price bothers you.  It's very cool to walk around the machine but the lack of lag REALLY makes a huge difference.  I don't know if the gameplay is improved but lot's of people play Future Pinball on it. Yes, some of the engine/flipper physics obviously isn't as mature as the other simulators but it's free and there are lot's of tables to choose from.  I still haven't had the time to try it, gotta get around to it some time.  Persnoally I hope Stern/Farsight hurry up and get off their ass and release Stern Pinball Arcade for the Rift with Ghostbusters.  Oh man I can't wait for that...

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #531 on: August 29, 2017, 05:46:49 pm »
Nintendo have been rocking the "different" approach the last couple of generations.

And to be honest I cant blame them for that, They have played the market to their own strengths very well choosing not to go head to head with Sony and MS.

They saw a opportunity in the market to bring something to the masses that was affordable and appealing to all with great potential for exploring new ideas with the DS and the Wii, and of course more recently with the switch.

Now I think they would be foolish to change tact at this point.

I dont think it would be a bad thing for them to get on the bandwagon and make something VR compatible.
I think they could bring something to the masses with it.

But I dont think the switch is it.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #532 on: August 29, 2017, 06:43:55 pm »
Can't do a slap save on a VR pinball and that's half the game.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #533 on: August 29, 2017, 08:11:53 pm »
you can.

pbj

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #534 on: August 29, 2017, 08:53:42 pm »
Lol no

Howard_Casto

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #535 on: August 30, 2017, 12:36:30 am »
But I dont think the switch is it.

Sure it is.  Why?  Cost.  Slap a 20 dollar headset onto the switch tablet and you are done.  People are willing to try new concepts in gaming only if it doesn't require a large investment.  It was one of the Wii's main selling points.... in a generation where both competing consoles surpassed the $300 mark and came with jack and squat, you could get a wii for 250 and it came with a game and two controllers.  People were willing to try the wii because of how little an investment it was... and a switch would similarly be a small investment... at least for their regular install base that already has a switch.  Before someone chimes in about all the android/iPhone headsets and how they failed... well that's because all the games sucked.  With Nintendo, love em or hate em, you know they'll bring their A game. 

05SRT4

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #536 on: August 30, 2017, 02:49:57 am »
About 90% complete
Have only played Project Cars, Elite Dangerous. Those two alone make this build worth it.
Let me know if you have any recommend games to check out. Started a new thread in the racing section if you want to check out more.



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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #537 on: August 30, 2017, 03:14:49 am »
But I dont think the switch is it.

Sure it is.  Why?  Cost.  Slap a 20 dollar headset onto the switch tablet and you are done.  People are willing to try new concepts in gaming only if it doesn't require a large investment.  It was one of the Wii's main selling points.... in a generation where both competing consoles surpassed the $300 mark and came with jack and squat, you could get a wii for 250 and it came with a game and two controllers.  People were willing to try the wii because of how little an investment it was... and a switch would similarly be a small investment... at least for their regular install base that already has a switch.  Before someone chimes in about all the android/iPhone headsets and how they failed... well that's because all the games sucked.  With Nintendo, love em or hate em, you know they'll bring their A game.

Because a £20 head set aint going to cut the Cheese!

You can create the best game concept ever but if the hardware is not game its not going to work.

The switch is far from a powerful system.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #538 on: August 30, 2017, 04:44:35 am »
Some Samsung VR games are legit. Isnt the switch more powerful then a Samsung S8?

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #539 on: August 30, 2017, 05:31:28 am »
Looking at the Switch's specs, I can't imagine it could deliver a proper, gaming VR experience.  Not without some compromises and the problem with VR is that if you compromise to much, you quickly run the risk of going below the minimum ergonomic threshold needed for the experience.  It runs the risk of pulling a Virtual Boy all over again.

Maybe Nintendo can take a crack at gaming VR with its next gen console.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 05:43:28 am by shponglefan »

Loafmeister

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #540 on: August 30, 2017, 08:57:33 am »
I don't think the Switch is up to it tech wise but maybe it will be good enough if they go for the typical Nintendo happy happy joy joy graphic style.  Hey, I HOPE it's good enough, VR can only benefit a large company like Nintendo doing it's thing; unfortunately outside of a few exceptions, the majority of VR gaming that interests me delves in more realistic graphics so a 720P screen I doubt would cut it.

pbj:  slap save is HALF the game?  Really? 

Mike A

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #541 on: August 30, 2017, 09:11:46 am »
Yes. The slap save is half the game.

Loafmeister

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #542 on: August 30, 2017, 12:52:48 pm »
Good as I think slap saves are included in most of the simulators so we are good!

Loafmeister

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #543 on: August 30, 2017, 12:56:16 pm »
Need to lose weight?  Lot's of solutions out there, including VR! ;)

https://uploadvr.com/man-loses-50-pounds-playing-soundboxing/

pbj

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #544 on: August 30, 2017, 01:23:21 pm »
I only do it when I'm pumping actual money into the games, but it's a big part of it.

Loafmeister

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #545 on: August 30, 2017, 01:26:52 pm »
I don't deny it, just not sure if it's there or not, if it will prevent me from enjoying a computer simulation of real pinball. There are SOOOO many other differences between real pinball and virtual that I think "slap saves" is a super small part of what it can make it fun or not.  Personally, I like flatscreen or VR pinball lots...

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #546 on: August 30, 2017, 03:43:30 pm »

Who said slap saves are not part of pin sims?  You have to remember that virtual tables are "perfect", meaning no irregular surfaces to randomly affect ball trajectory.  So, a large part of the game is learning exactly where and how the ball will eventually contact the flippers when exiting ramps, capture wells, etc...  Some require a flipper to be extended to prevent a center drain, and of course, when the trajectory is close to SDTM, a slap save works.  The problem is that the ball often ends up under the first flipper, so it's tricky to pull off.  Even when successful, it tends to fly up the inlanes, but I've done it plenty.

Loafmeister

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #547 on: August 30, 2017, 04:59:32 pm »
pbj is the trouble maker who started this vicious "slap-save don't exist in VR pinball" rumour. :badmood: 

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #548 on: August 30, 2017, 05:13:18 pm »
 Im not going to completely agree with Howard...  but I will say,  that he does have a good point in the argument.


 The cost of VR may be coming down... but its still quite up there for the masses (with everything from hardware to powerful PC in total).   

 Not only that,  but not everyone likes the typical VR style FPS gun games.    Especially since many of these are developed as Cross-Platform,  and
are not specifically balanced and tailored to,  VR.    As such... game difficulty may be too easy,  and too limited / simplistic.   Its generally too expensive
for companies to develop completely different platform specifics...  so if it is done... its usually the "short-cut"  method...  which creates a lackluster
experience.


 Does VR have to have the most Amazing realistic graphics to be good?   Not at all.     Go to any game store,  and you will see that any
Super Mario Bros.  2d  games... resell at some of the higher amounts... and most are always sold out,  or are the last one available...

 Going back to my Sega Master System days... I had the 3d shutterglasses.    The game Maze Hunter 3d,  is quite good,  and visually really cool... though,
a little slow on the action front.    But  Missile Defense 3D ?   That game is Da BOMB!   (Literally ;)  )     Its worth the whole cost of a system + game + glasses + lightgun...
just for that game alone.

 Even beyond that... I always remembered the day, as a young tike,  that I walked up to a real  Continental Circus 3D  arcade machine,  that had the glasses on it.
I was Totally blown away by it.   The graphics may be simple... not shaded nice like Outrun...   but in 3D... it was a whole other experience!   Smoke, Tires, Pieces and parts... flying out of the screen on a regular basis.   The depth of the road into the screen was great too.    Its not the kind of 3d that is barely noticeable.. as some other 3d titles / films are like.

 Even in Missile Defense 3D,  if a Missile get too far,  it will pop out of the screen at you.    It wasnt as good as Continental... but it was a cool effect that hit home.. as it exploded right in front of you.


 Playstation had a similar problem... where Sony told all developers,  that it did not want any 2d based games.   Pretty much every game, had to be polygon based.   Luckily a few rare games like Lomax, got away with getting a  'pass'... but mostly,  its all fairly lame content,  IMO.   The systems 3d capability were not that impressive at all...  and without variety,  all games were almost all the same exact clone, of one another.


 Even Jeri Ellsworth,  was working on a low-cost  stand-alone  AR device,   after realizing that the masses were going to be hard to attract with such high costs.
Would have been cool to see what she could have came up with... had not the company funding, been yanked.    I think she had a good plan... but, I feel that the
real issue was with content.   Without good, addictive, content... even the best tech... is pretty much worthless to most people.

 Nintendo,  unlike Sega...  have lasted the storms... even with Inferior hardware... because they have had a master-class level game design crew... that puts out pretty much consistently good games... that pretty much everyone and anyone,   is attracted to,  and gets addicted to.

 Sega had some great hardware,  and some great moments in the Arcades...  but... these quarter munchers,  such as Afterburner II, and Outrun... were limited and simple... and didnt have the lasting power to push a home console system to success.  Heck, most of the consoles couldnt even produce their own arcade games... but when they could.. it was too little... too late.   And while Sonic had its moments in its original debut...  it still was  1/1000 th  the gameplay of the Mario series.

 The master system was similar.   It has a Few choice gems... such as   Shooting Gallery (might be the best lightgun game ever made),  Missile Defense 3D,  Golvelius,  Phantasy Star 1,  Astro Warrior,  Zillion,  and a few others...  but overall...   its limited library of mostly simplistic games,  was not as good "gamplay wise",  as the NES games... despite being more capable.

 Genesis wasnt much better.  Very few Sega exclusive / Originals by Sega.   Mostly Ports by Sega,  such as G&G.   Luckily,  there were some brilliant developers from other companies,  that were able to make the Genesis a decent and fun system.   (ThunderForce II,  Target Earth ... two of my top Epic Favorites)


 Id bet,  that a stand along  "Jacks" style "Tempest (TxK)"  + 360 degree spinner + mildly decent VR glasses setup...  would outsell the Riff 1000 to 1,  at a $100,  all day long.
That and or a Starwars arcade vector 3d version... that had a real 2 axis yoke...  =)   (Plus some additional engine abilities... such as trenches that bobbed and weaved in different directions and paths...)


 The real key in VR,  is that single game... that people cant live without.   Not in the games that are OK,  or are fun for a few hours... then get stale.


 Thats essentially what made the NES fly off the shelf in Record numbers:  SMB   as a pack-in game.
Everyone had to have it...  especially after a single play, at a friends house.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #549 on: August 30, 2017, 05:16:00 pm »
Alright, VR and Ninty fanboys in the same thread! Add Game of Thrones and its like Facebook had a kid and dumped it here!!!
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #550 on: August 30, 2017, 05:43:14 pm »
Yes. The slap save is half the game.


 I think this is a Huge Misconception...  between a  "slap/nudge",   vs an actual  "death-save".

 The dreaded center drain,  does not happen all that often in a well designed,  well working,  and perfectly level... Pinball Machine.
When it does happen... some machines are designed in such a way... that with perfect timing and skill... you can bump the front of the machine forwards
when the ball hits the drains slanted backpiece... to pop the ball back into play.   Its very difficult to pull off in real life.   Also, I believe most actually Kick
the machines Leg,  to do this trick.

 Clearly,  thats Not half the game.


 However... a good Pinball player,  knows that they wont last long... if they do not know how to slap / nudge.   That is how Pinball is designed to be played... and IS
actually most of the games skill / gameplay.    Take that away... and you are not really playing Pinball.

 I think the problem has been  (unless they have fixed this in more recent times)...  that these developers have made the Nudge operate in a way that is not
correct to real pinball.   Where as... when used... its more like a Table-Slide,  than a slap nudge.    Furthermore... the ball seemed to simply just slide any direction,  even when
it was not touching anything raised on the playfield... which just isnt right.

 Most slap nudges,  dont really move the table much "visibly".    Its a kinetic transfer of mass/force... into the machine,  in more of a Vibrational force... rather than a long-travel push / slide.    If the ball is rolling down the center of the table... and you tried to slap-nudge the table... the balls course will not be altered.   But if the table is slap-nudged when the ball touches a Post,  bumper,  flipper,  or anything attached to the table...  then that force will transfer from the table to the object on the table... to the ball... and impart forces to alter the balls trajectory.

 Table-Slides... are an even different thing.   Its where one quickly slides the machine over like an inch or three... really quickly.   The ball thats rolling right down the center... is not going to be altered... but... since the table is slick,  and moved quickly...  its as if you did the old magic trick,  in which you pull a tablecloth out from under a full dinner set of dishware.   The table is slid over... and the ball keeps the same line... so it ends up hitting the flipper rather than draining down the now Moved center drain.   

 Table Slides,  unlike Nudges,  are pretty much a Cheat... and if the Tilt sensor is properly adjusted... it Should go off.   However,  many tables have been set up without the Tilt bob in place,  or have lowered the tilt bob sensitivity greatly...  so its often gotten away with,  by players whom are the typical NPD nerds,  that cant stand to lose due to skill failure.  To such people... its all about ego and winning at any and all costs.   Even badmouthing their own co-called "Friends"  over a stupid game,  thats supposed to be friendly / fun.


 I will clarify... in that while a Nudge Tap/slap  may seem similar to a table slide... you have to realize... that a table slide has to violently move the ENTIRE table over several inches... just to avoid a small degree ball drain.   Where even the lightest tap of a slap nudge,  done at the correct time and impact point... can Drastically alter a balls trajectory.

 If table slides were 50% of the game... most players would burn out on a 3 minute game.  lol.   Its not easy sliding a 350 lb machine, quickly, several inches in distance...  using the top area point of where the flipper hand positions are located at.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #551 on: August 30, 2017, 05:51:43 pm »
Im not going to completely agree with Howard...  but I will say,  that he does have a good point in the argument.


 The cost of VR may be coming down... but its still quite up there for the masses (with everything from hardware to powerful PC in total).   

 Not only that,  but not everyone likes the typical VR style FPS gun games.    Especially since many of these are developed as Cross-Platform,  and
are not specifically balanced and tailored to,  VR.    As such... game difficulty may be too easy,  and too limited / simplistic.   Its generally too expensive
for companies to develop completely different platform specifics...  so if it is done... its usually the "short-cut"  method...  which creates a lackluster
experience.


 Does VR have to have the most Amazing realistic graphics to be good?   Not at all.     Go to any game store,  and you will see that any
Super Mario Bros.  2d  games... resell at some of the higher amounts... and most are always sold out,  or are the last one available...

 Going back to my Sega Master System days... I had the 3d shutterglasses.    The game Maze Hunter 3d,  is quite good,  and visually really cool... though,
a little slow on the action front.    But  Missile Defense 3D ?   That game is Da BOMB!   (Literally ;)  )     Its worth the whole cost of a system + game + glasses + lightgun...
just for that game alone.

 Even beyond that... I always remembered the day, as a young tike,  that I walked up to a real  Continental Circus 3D  arcade machine,  that had the glasses on it.
I was Totally blown away by it.   The graphics may be simple... not shaded nice like Outrun...   but in 3D... it was a whole other experience!   Smoke, Tires, Pieces and parts... flying out of the screen on a regular basis.   The depth of the road into the screen was great too.    Its not the kind of 3d that is barely noticeable.. as some other 3d titles / films are like.

 Even in Missile Defense 3D,  if a Missile get too far,  it will pop out of the screen at you.    It wasnt as good as Continental... but it was a cool effect that hit home.. as it exploded right in front of you.


 Playstation had a similar problem... where Sony told all developers,  that it did not want any 2d based games.   Pretty much every game, had to be polygon based.   Luckily a few rare games like Lomax, got away with getting a  'pass'... but mostly,  its all fairly lame content,  IMO.   The systems 3d capability were not that impressive at all...  and without variety,  all games were almost all the same exact clone, of one another.


 Even Jeri Ellsworth,  was working on a low-cost  stand-alone  AR device,   after realizing that the masses were going to be hard to attract with such high costs.
Would have been cool to see what she could have came up with... had not the company funding, been yanked.    I think she had a good plan... but, I feel that the
real issue was with content.   Without good, addictive, content... even the best tech... is pretty much worthless to most people.

 Nintendo,  unlike Sega...  have lasted the storms... even with Inferior hardware... because they have had a master-class level game design crew... that puts out pretty much consistently good games... that pretty much everyone and anyone,   is attracted to,  and gets addicted to.

 Sega had some great hardware,  and some great moments in the Arcades...  but... these quarter munchers,  such as Afterburner II, and Outrun... were limited and simple... and didnt have the lasting power to push a home console system to success.  Heck, most of the consoles couldnt even produce their own arcade games... but when they could.. it was too little... too late.   And while Sonic had its moments in its original debut...  it still was  1/1000 th  the gameplay of the Mario series.

 The master system was similar.   It has a Few choice gems... such as   Shooting Gallery (might be the best lightgun game ever made),  Missile Defense 3D,  Golvelius,  Phantasy Star 1,  Astro Warrior,  Zillion,  and a few others...  but overall...   its limited library of mostly simplistic games,  was not as good "gamplay wise",  as the NES games... despite being more capable.

 Genesis wasnt much better.  Very few Sega exclusive / Originals by Sega.   Mostly Ports by Sega,  such as G&G.   Luckily,  there were some brilliant developers from other companies,  that were able to make the Genesis a decent and fun system.   (ThunderForce II,  Target Earth ... two of my top Epic Favorites)


 Id bet,  that a stand along  "Jacks" style "Tempest (TxK)"  + 360 degree spinner + mildly decent VR glasses setup...  would outsell the Riff 1000 to 1,  at a $100,  all day long.
That and or a Starwars arcade vector 3d version... that had a real 2 axis yoke...  =)   (Plus some additional engine abilities... such as trenches that bobbed and weaved in different directions and paths...)


 The real key in VR,  is that single game... that people cant live without.   Not in the games that are OK,  or are fun for a few hours... then get stale.


 Thats essentially what made the NES fly off the shelf in Record numbers:  SMB   as a pack-in game.
Everyone had to have it...  especially after a single play, at a friends house.

Totally agree the price needs to come down before the masses will adopt and Nintendo could make some good VR games if they so chose, Dont think anyone would dispute those claims.

But most of the rest of that I would disagree with :p

The NES sold so well because it had a good QUALITY game Library, Mario was a huge part of that but there were so many others that made the NES a must have.
It beat the master system hands down.

But the Mega Drive, now that was a totally different Animal.
Sega were cooking on gas with that thing!
It had a awesome game line up and was very reasonably priced.
Lets face it the SNES v Genesis war was the only one that ever mattered or anyone ever cared about!
Its the thing of legends discussed by kids everywhere whichever side of the fence you sat on!

Sadly it was after that success that Sega got stupid and ultimately, repeatedly, screwed themselves.

Back to VR though....

There are games that are being developed for VR only use (Doom VR I am personally excited for!) Most games to start were a bit simplistic and gimmicky but that was quickly over taken by some much better thought out games.
Farpoint is the one for me but there are other non shooty games to :p
Now the ice has been broken loads of devs are now developing VR exclusives with well thought out mechanics.

I really hope Nintendo do join in the action, I want to play mario kart VR!
But I still dont think the switch has the balls for it!

 

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #552 on: August 30, 2017, 11:19:05 pm »
A "slap save" does not require a nudge.  Timing of the flipper(s) travel to meet the ball at the apex of it's curve must be nearly exact, thus requiring the "slap" of the button.  Any bit of energy transferred through the table as the ball makes contact would certainly facilitate the hand-off to the other flipper, but it's not a necessity.

I've played so long, I don't even think about it.  But tonight I saw myself do a bona-fide slap save (without the "slap"...kind of hard to slap a shoulder button...working on that.)  So yes, it absolutely works in VR pinball sims (at least the one I play.)

As for the Switch VR thing, it could be possible.  At 720p, the system would have over a million less pixels to "twiddle", compared to the more capable systems.  The real issue is whether there is enough processing "nut" in that machine to calculate the views properly at a high enough frame rate.  And even if it could, would it be able to give the user the same sense of "presence", given the low resolution?  Still very skeptical that the end result wouldn't be damaging to the reputation of VR, especially when one of the most anticipated titles for the unit needed to drop the output to 900p @30FPS when docked.  Great game design doesn't mean much if the hardware can't meet the "magic" numbers, without the visuals looking like a 3D N64 (or worse.)

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #553 on: August 31, 2017, 06:44:37 am »
I have tried VR at the first convention of Occulus rift i was the test subject on the stage and yeah it blew me away, i told the audience it is kinda creepy, it is like hallucinating, you know it is not real but it is right there.
I played a demo of a canyon with a bridge leading to a castle, the bridge had a hole in it, i literally tried sidestepping the hole and forgot about the controller in my hands an amazing experience, when the demo was over i stepped into the hole and it was like falling in a dream you could feel yourself falling, no words to describe it.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #554 on: September 01, 2017, 10:52:54 am »
Headsets will never cost $20, because by the time they can be manufactured that cheap and be better quality than the display on a gameboy, inflation will have driven that $20 up to the $50 range.

The first gen of plasma TV's were $50,000.  It took until the 4th generation of them to get into the $3k range.  Then cheaper technologies started to catch up (LCD) to the picture quality, and suddenly you had $500 32" LCD TV's with 720p resolution.  They weren't anything to write home to mom about, but they were a flat TV for $500!!  Another 4 generations later and that same set was $250, and a 1080p of the same size was $400.  Now you can get a 1080p 32" with better contrast and brightness than plasma and excellent color for $200.  A 50" LCD that rivals anything plasma could ever offer, has 4k resolution, wide color gamut, high dynamic range, insane brightness and contrast and is less than 2 inches thick at the thickest point and weighs in at 35 lbs can be had for $900.  Spend twice that and you get a picture that you could never achieve in the home and is between 1/4" and 3/4" in thickness.  And yet things are still getting better and cheaper.

TV "generations" are almost annual and have been for a long time, where VR generations look like (for now) they are going to be about on a two-three year cycle.  That may change as popularity increases.  But the thing to remember is the first plasma was out like 25 years ago.  VR is really only 2 years old in it's current form and only a year old in the consumer market.  We all enjoy cheap flat displays today, but even 10 years after consumers started demanding flat displays, it was far more expensive than what a Rift or Vive costs today (particularly if you adjust for inflation).  I saved and scrounged for my first 21" CRT monitor, I spent 2 years paying off my first 24" LCD monitor.  And I wasn't the only one, and today nobody bothers with a 15 or even 17" monitor for their computer, they all use the 21-27" screens. 

I bet even people like Howard scoffed at the idea of getting rid of his trusty 17"crt computer monitor back then, particularly when you saw how much an LCD cost (and how bad it looked in comparison).  And he wasn't alone in that thinking.  But at the same time, nobody ever said "Nobody will buy these until they are $20."  That is just ludicrous.

And make no mistake, VR WILL replace conventional displays in the future.  Yes, it is going to take a lot to get there, including the price coming down, the quality going way up, and the form factor getting WAY lighter and comfortable to wear, but it is coming.  It may not even be a headset, by the time it gets to that point it may start being an implant.  But it is coming.  Anyone who has used a high end setup can see why.

Finally, people spend hundreds of millions on high end GPU's today.  For $399 for a Rift with controllers, what does that matter compared to their $600 GPU and their $600 monitor?  This isn't as "out of reach" as people think, it just doesn't seem to have the value that would make it worth it.  When the tech exceeds what a 50" 4k LCD can do in terms of picture quality and convenience, nobody will blink before spending the same dime on something so much better in every other way.  And when they start getting to where they can buy "family packs" of these things for the price of a decent LCD TV, people will be hanging pictures above their fireplace again, not 50" LCD's.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #555 on: September 01, 2017, 12:33:28 pm »
I don't feel like vr has much to do with the TV industry or the phone industry or anything else. Only real thing that is comparable maybe the video game consoles since that is essentially what VR is right now. You have to make sure people got enough use out of the old before you bring in the new, you have to make sure when you do make advancements it is still compatible with the old, you have to make the software side transfer over seamlessly to work with the new, if any competitor wants to jump in those games need to work with their headset\tracking\motion controls as well, or come at it in a completely different direction than his competitors.


Speaking of TV’s does anyone remember this commercial, the dream of owning something like that.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #556 on: September 01, 2017, 12:44:56 pm »
Speaking of TV’s does anyone remember this commercial, the dream of owning something like that.

All too well.  Those poor hipsters had to live in a crappy re-modeled storage container of a house to afford the set  :laugh2:

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #557 on: September 01, 2017, 02:05:28 pm »
I don't feel like vr has much to do with the TV industry or the phone industry or anything else. Only real thing that is comparable maybe the video game consoles since that is essentially what VR is right now. You have to make sure people got enough use out of the old before you bring in the new, you have to make sure when you do make advancements it is still compatible with the old, you have to make the software side transfer over seamlessly to work with the new, if any competitor wants to jump in those games need to work with their headset\tracking\motion controls as well, or come at it in a completely different direction than his competitors.

Right now the fastest path to revenue is in the gaming industry, but I think VR will have a strong impact on a lot of other commercial areas, and as soon as the resolution is higher and the price is lower, I can definitely see these replacing televisions as the primary display. 

Think about it, right now tablets and phones are starting to eat into the TV market, and that will only get bigger.  The millennial generation doesn't watch TV only on the shared family screen any more, they watch on their phones and tablets from wherever they are, whether it is at home, in a car, on a train or bus, or even at work.  In 20 years, few people will be buying that 55" tv to hang above the fireplace. 

It is not much of a leap to move away from holding a phone or tablet for 2 hours at a time to mounting it in front of your face.  Particularly if you add technology to make it mix reality with what they are seeing.

TV's also have a strong tie to computer monitors as the display panel is almost 100% supplied by the consumer manufacturers of TVs.  As the TV market declines, computer monitors will get more expensive, all while VR units get better, cheaper, and more comfortable.  Add things like mixed reality and the fact that everything you see in VR is as 3D as real life is, and you suddenly have a path to replace monitors, both on personal and business environments, with VR headsets. 

This is not a new Nintendo, this is a new way to display the output from an electronic device, and while the initial path to enhancing this technology and making it cheaper and more readily available is in the enthusiast market, it won't be forever. 

It isn't going to happen tomorrow, or next year, but 15-20 years?  No question in my mind.  Every trend is pointing in that direction.  But if my only experience to date was a cardboard VR with a cheesy rollercoaster demo, I would never see the connection to any of this.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #558 on: September 01, 2017, 11:21:06 pm »
6 months ago tested did an interview on the next generation of  Augmented Reality Glasses. They guy was saying he already stopped using his monitors and was using that full time. It better not be 15 years I want my monitors replaced with glasses in no more than 5 years.


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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #559 on: September 01, 2017, 11:37:04 pm »
I don't feel like vr has much to do with the TV industry or the phone industry or anything else. Only real thing that is comparable maybe the video game consoles since that is essentially what VR is right now. You have to make sure people got enough use out of the old before you bring in the new, you have to make sure when you do make advancements it is still compatible with the old, you have to make the software side transfer over seamlessly to work with the new, if any competitor wants to jump in those games need to work with their headset\tracking\motion controls as well, or come at it in a completely different direction than his competitors.

Right now the fastest path to revenue is in the gaming industry, but I think VR will have a strong impact on a lot of other commercial areas, and as soon as the resolution is higher and the price is lower, I can definitely see these replacing televisions as the primary display. 

Think about it, right now tablets and phones are starting to eat into the TV market, and that will only get bigger.  The millennial generation doesn't watch TV only on the shared family screen any more, they watch on their phones and tablets from wherever they are, whether it is at home, in a car, on a train or bus, or even at work.  In 20 years, few people will be buying that 55" tv to hang above the fireplace. 

It is not much of a leap to move away from holding a phone or tablet for 2 hours at a time to mounting it in front of your face.  Particularly if you add technology to make it mix reality with what they are seeing.

TV's also have a strong tie to computer monitors as the display panel is almost 100% supplied by the consumer manufacturers of TVs.  As the TV market declines, computer monitors will get more expensive, all while VR units get better, cheaper, and more comfortable.  Add things like mixed reality and the fact that everything you see in VR is as 3D as real life is, and you suddenly have a path to replace monitors, both on personal and business environments, with VR headsets. 

This is not a new Nintendo, this is a new way to display the output from an electronic device, and while the initial path to enhancing this technology and making it cheaper and more readily available is in the enthusiast market, it won't be forever. 

It isn't going to happen tomorrow, or next year, but 15-20 years?  No question in my mind.  Every trend is pointing in that direction.  But if my only experience to date was a cardboard VR with a cheesy rollercoaster demo, I would never see the connection to any of this.

I think you will find out that the reverse is more true today than 5 years ago.  Family time is becoming more important, communial gatherings and events are changing behaviorism in disfunctional family situations.  There are hundreds of studies out there, showing current technology including VR to be a catalyst for noncommunication anti social behaviour.  No trend is pointing to seclusion.  Group activities and team orientated skills will be the future market.  Family holidays and activities will be promoted via VR.  I think more people should sit down with a paper or book and learn, than try to sound authorative on a subject they have to clue about.  As It clearly shows.

Here is a brief start:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=family+interaction+via+virtual+reality&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C29



For VR to be commercially successful and viable, there will have to be scenarios for unity goals.
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