I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing

[shponglefan]

Oculus Quest announced: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/09/oculus-quest-a-fully-wireless-vr-headset-shipping-spring-2019-for-399/

Wireless, stand-alone, 6 degrees of freedom, hand tracked controllers. 

[fallacy]

Just more pointless gen 1 crap, I am over it! With hat said I take back what I said about Pimax, apparently they fixed the image screwing problems at the last second and we now about to finally get the first gen 2 VR headsets in a few months!!!!!!!!! It is all about the 150 plus FOV, keep all that 100 FOV gen 1 crap out of my face!

[RandyT]

With the resources Oculus has at it's disposal, they seem to be falling well short of anything enticing for VR enthusiasts.  It takes some serious computing horsepower to deliver truly compelling VR experiences, and rather than dedicating those vast resources to rapidly developing technologies which improve the user experience while at the same time reducing, or at least maintaining the level of those burdens, they seem to be focusing on portability and things which go hand-in-hand with the FB business model.  I don't think most honest VR enthusiasts will continue to consider them to be serious players as the technology marches forward.

In the meantime, Pimax is poised to eat both their and HTC's collective lunches in that regard.  And this from a tiny, previously unknown Chinese company.  If history is any indicator, they will probably do it at a lower price point as well, especially when the intrusive data collection subsidies present with other units are taken into consideration.

[fallacy]

Oculus wants to make getting and playing VR as frictionless as possible to attract the mass market; they are not wrong but the problem is that VR is still not good enough for the mass market, so just making it more convenient is not really going to help much. it's is not even that convenient it will just be more irating in other ways like charging the device, drive space, the extra weight all for an inferior experience that you could have just gotten on the Oculus over the last 3 years.

It sounds like they are working on something special for their gen 2, 140 FOV with eye tracking for some kind of foveated rendering but we are not going to see that in well over a year.

[shponglefan]

In the meantime, Pimax is poised to eat both their and HTC's collective lunches in that regard.

Time will tell. The big question mark is how well they do with meeting demand, quality control, aftermarket support, etc.

This is something where even an established manufacturing company like HTC has struggled with when it comes to the Vive.

[pbj]

Someone pony up $40 for Astro Bot...

[fallacy]

Palmer Luckey himself just posted on what I just said above, that VR is still not good enough for main stream.
Check it out.

https://wccftech.com/oculus-founder-no-vr-device-mainstream/

[RandyT]

Palmer Luckey himself just posted on what I just said above, that VR is still not good enough for main stream.
Check it out.

https://wccftech.com/oculus-founder-no-vr-device-mainstream/

Meh.  Sounds like sour grapes to me.  The Oculus brand is tarnishing more by the day, and some of the things those engineers stated were "impossible", are now being offered by other companies (e.g. Wide FOV headsets.)  For all the nay saying, companies are still inventing new tech and upgrading their previous offerings.

It's not that it's "not good enough", rather that the bar for entry, cost-wise, is still very high for the best experiences.  To get there, an interested individual needs at least a GTX 1070 card in a very capable system to support the headset technology, so there's ~$900, and then you can add another $500-$1200 for one of the better VR setups.  The PSVR seems to back up cost as the issue, as adoption rates are very good when the cost is lower, and the user base (foundational hardware) is already in place.  Most PC gamers still don't have the "grunt" in their systems to adequately support current VR's requirements, and the newer offerings will demand even more.  The only tech problem barring adoption is that it currently costs too much.  Cheap hardware delivers a cheap experience, which isn't compelling enough to drive mass adoption.

tldr:  Not a tech problem, rather a $$$ problem.

[opt2not]

Not a tech problem, rather a $$$ problem.

Absolutely agree with this. The entry level is still too pricey for the average consumer, and the require specs for a decent experience is still too high. But just like all new tech, eventually competition will lower the price, and accessibility. Right now the user base is still too low for mainstream, which drives the amount of developer participation in software releases. Perhaps, if VR is still a thing in 5-10 years, we might see this changing to be a bit more entry-friendly.  For now, we're just not there yet from a mass consumer level.

[RandyT]

But just like all new tech, eventually competition will lower the price, and accessibility

That, I fear, will not be the case for a long time.  Right now, nVidia has a stranglehold on the technology required to run these things.  Unless AMD can make some serious progress, there will be no competition to achieve that goal.  The other hitch is that as the graphics processing technology marches on, so too will the display tech in the headsets.  It will be quite a while before there is excess processing power, once the possibilities for higher and higher resolution displays are exhausted.  So in a nutshell, by time the processing power in a 1080ti is affordable to the masses, the VR tech of today will be antiquated, new VR experiences will not support the old tech (see new video game minimum requirements as a guideline) and it still may not help to drive adoption. 

Just like high-end PC gaming is a niche market, so too will VR be for quite some time to come. But that doesn't mean the technology is going to go away.  It will be "hand-me-down" tech, just like high-end graphics cards are today.

[fallacy]

did you read it, he says it does not matter if everyone got a pc and rift for free, most would stop using it in matter of weeks and months for lack of engagement.

I never thought it was a price thing, people are willing to pay whatever as long as it is something they think is useful. Apple would not be able to say hey we are going to charge $1400 for are flag ship phone and have millions sell when there are literately hundreds of different options that are half the price if people did not deam the value in owning the best that device has to offer.

VR needs to get to a place where even the cheapest device will engage almost everyone than they will pay whatever for the better ones.

[shponglefan]

did you read it, he says it does not matter if everyone got a pc and rift for free, most would stop using it in matter of weeks and months for lack of engagement.

Lack of engagement is a content issue though. And lack of content is a market issue.

If the market issue were solved by giving everyone a free VR HMD and PC to run it, we'd suddenly be seeing a *lot* more content being developed. And that would solve the engagement issue.

[fallacy]

It's not that simple, the software and hardware are both intertwined as one, it can only ever be as good or as bad as the other side will allow it to be. I think VR is one of the more complex multi-layer things out there, it is hard to even make comparisons because everything you compare is far more straightforward.

[RandyT]

did you read it, he says it does not matter if everyone got a pc and rift for free, most would stop using it in matter of weeks and months for lack of engagement.

I never thought it was a price thing, people are willing to pay whatever as long as it is something they think is useful. Apple would not be able to say hey we are going to charge $1400 for are flag ship phone and have millions sell when there are literately hundreds of different options that are half the price if people did not deam the value in owning the best that device has to offer.

VR needs to get to a place where even the cheapest device will engage almost everyone than they will pay whatever for the better ones.

I think this guy's crystal ball has a crack in it.  A lot of the problem is that the masses still haven't experienced good VR, and that problem vanishes in the scenario he proposes.  It's never going to be for everyone, and some of the reasons for that are well known.  But Sony has shown that offering a good, relatively inexpensive VR device, coupled with an established hardware base, can yield a decent uptake.

The perceived lack of engagement is probably due to the cost and complexity of the devices.  High-end VR requires a fair amount of disposable income, and affluence isn't something one would necessarily associate with avid gamers.  People who can afford to buy in on a whim, probably have limited time to devote to using it.  Obviously, there are exceptions, but we are talking about the mass market here.  And yes, it also has a lot to do with the availability of compelling content.  Some of the more successful VR titles are ports of AAA 2D titles.  More of these will help to transition fans of those games to becoming VR users.  Engagement also spikes when a new and compelling VR experience is released, so that should be telling you something about the dynamic.

Comparing VR to an iPhone isn't useful.  Apple users have always had a bit of a hive mindset, and the dynamic at play in that market is multi-faceted, with less to do with technological prowess in the products being offered.  The ability to bandy about a single digit increase in the revision of their phone seems more valuable to that group than getting the best bang for buck.  But it's good for the stockholders.

[shponglefan]

It's not that simple, the software and hardware are both intertwined as one, it can only ever be as good or as bad as the other side will allow it to be. I think VR is one of the more complex multi-layer things out there, it is hard to even make comparisons because everything you compare is far more straightforward.

Gen 1 PCVR hardware (Rift and Vive) is more than adequate for compelling experiences. Especially when driven by appropriate high-end PC hardware.

The biggest hardware draw-back is limited visual fidelity but a lot of that is also driven by rendering engines and/or PC hardware limitation. And any remaining fidelity issues can be addressed through UI design.

The challenge is primarily on the software/content side. We either have made-for-VR titles with compelling VR mechanics that have limited budgets and therefore limited scope. Or the games with broader scope and higher budgets are typically ports with compromises in VR design and mechanics.

High-budget made-for-VR content would create both a compelling VR experience and have enough content where players would have incentive to buy and play those titles. Think a proper made-for-VR Elder Scrolls or Call of Duty type of game. Right now though we just don't have anything like that on the market and the reason is because the market doesn't exist to support that type of content investment yet.

[pbj]

https://www.amazon.com/Oculus-Marvel-EVGA-Keyboard-GeForce/dp/B07JR2KW2F

Honest opinions on this bundle, please.

[05SRT4]

https://www.amazon.com/Oculus-Marvel-EVGA-Keyboard-GeForce/dp/B07JR2KW2F

Honest opinions on this bundle, please.

Says unavailable and doesn't show a price for me.

According to the Oculus min specs the laptop mentioned is recommend.

Recommended Specs

Graphics Card   NVIDIA GTX 1060 / AMD Radeon RX 480 or greater
Alternative Graphics Card   NVIDIA GTX 970 / AMD Radeon R9 290 or greater
CPU   Intel i5-4590 / AMD Ryzen 5 1500X or greater
Memory   8GB+ RAM
Video Output   Compatible HDMI 1.3 video output
USB Ports   3x USB 3.0 ports, plus 1x USB 2.0 port
OS   Windows 10 or newer

[fallacy]

buying a laptop to VR is foolish, it cost more, usually slower and makes alot more fan noise, you cant get the graphics cards upgrades you will eventually need. I don't even see the point of buying a laptop for gaming. Maybe if I travel alot but even than I would want something lighter and than I would still leave it at home because I am traveling why would I spend that time on my computer.

[shponglefan]

https://www.amazon.com/Oculus-Marvel-EVGA-Keyboard-GeForce/dp/B07JR2KW2F

Honest opinions on this bundle, please.

Unless you have a strict need for the portability, I'd go desktop over a laptop. And for GPU I'd recommend a minimum 1070 GTX for current PCVR. While you can technically get away with less, a 1070 will cover almost all the bases for PCVR currently.

[pbj]

Coworker was buying for her husband, asked my opinion.

Anything you guys suggest in the $1,700 neighborhood?

[fallacy]

the rift is $350 right now, it was only that low last year black Friday. If they dont own a PC and just want to try VR for the first time tell her to wait for the Oculus Quest in a few months; that will be everything for $400.

[SammyWI]

https://www.amazon.com/Oculus-Marvel-EVGA-Keyboard-GeForce/dp/B07JR2KW2F

Honest opinions on this bundle, please.

No direct experience but I can say that I have a 1060 6 MB Geforce in my desktop machine and it has no problems running my HTC Vive.  I would echo the recommendation for a desktop over a laptop.

[pbj]

Ain't nobody waiting, it's a Christmas present.

Anyway, Astro Bot is $20 everywhere right now thanks to Gamestop. The demo was fun, I bit.

[mimic]

I don't see anyone mention the great deal on Samsung Odyssey plus WMR HMD 40% off on their newest VR set with anti SDE technology and resolution equal to Vive Pro, including controllers. Comes down to $299 (plus tax for me). I opted for their 6months payment of $50, interest free. It's a no brainier for me.
https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/hmd/windows-mixed-reality/hmd-odyssey-windows-mixed-reality-headset-xe800zba-hc1us/

Also Viveport has (had) 5 great games for $1 each (Arizona Sunshine, SuperHot VR, Sairento, Accounting + and Wizards) although claim for most to be "out of stock", but might be back on Black Friday. Couldn't pass the deal either!

[fallacy]

I don't see anyone mention the great deal on Samsung Odyssey plus

cause it sucks, half the people are saying it is even worse than the Samsung Odyssey; the windows mixed reality headsets suck in general.

[RandyT]

I don't see anyone mention the great deal on Samsung Odyssey plus

cause it sucks, half the people are saying it is even worse than the Samsung Odyssey; the windows mixed reality headsets suck in general.

The Odyssey doesn't "suck".  I use it more than my Vive.  As for the plus version being worse, it's a pick-your-poison situation.  Original version:  Minor SDE, with sharper detail.  Plus Version: Little to no SDE, but at a cost of visual sharpness.  It's my understanding that the Rift uses something similar to reduce SDE, but the panel resolution is much lower so the loss of detail is less perceptible. 

Ergonomics are hit or miss on both Odyssey units, depending on the individual.  But they work and work well for very large portions of the current VR libraries.

[mimic]

cause it sucks, half the people are saying it is even worse than the Samsung Odyssey; the windows mixed reality headsets suck in general.

Maybe... I am wiling to sacrifice comfort for better visuals (hopefully). Can't take the SDE in Rift any longer. I want better quality experience in Fallout 4VR.

Can't believe that's 3rd HMD I've purchased! Rift, PSVR, Odyssey! If Pimax turns out alright, I might pull the trigger again. VR ROCKS!

[fallacy]

We all want something that is in-arguably better than the rift and vive yet keep getting pissed down are throats. Pimax 5k plus is going to be the next in line, waiting to here some more reviews. They should be shipping this week or something.

[kane916]

Anyway, Astro Bot is $20 everywhere right now thanks to Gamestop. The demo was fun, I bit.

Fiqures I just picked it up a week ago for $40 from gamestop.

[pixel]

I agree with most of what has been said.  Especially what Randy posted about the issue of cost, power, and the advancing display requirements.


 The biggest thing for VR to take off,  has to be a game that Everybody can not live without.    This is what makes or breaks ALL hardware sales.

 VR Chat is drawing a lot of people to it,  because of the unique interactive nature.   But,  VR Chat is still not really that game that is missing / needed.


 It is very possible to have a low-poly experience,  that is far superior, fun / challenging / pretty...  than a simple PC port of an existing game.
In fact... VR really needs to be separate in its development.  The controls need to be matched to the gameplays balance... and Devs can not do that,
when they have to consider non-vr players far more limited control abilities + a far more limited Field of View.

 Its not impossible that a stand-alone VR set could not work... but... these devices are based on Android... which is full of low-quality Crapware,
and severely limited / crippled control schemes.   Limited control = Limited experience = Poor VR experience + low to no interest.


 Well,  Nvidia made the jump to Raytracing... and advanced VR will likely need such a thing... because most 3d games use 2d overlayed effects, and
other trickery that does not translate to stereoscopic 3d.   However... their tech is way to over-priced,  and AMD does not seem to even be thinking about VR.


 I may be a bit ignorant to this level of the tech... but why cant many of these extra CPU cores, be used to add power to VR abilities?


 Regardless.  I stand by my argument... that what is needed to get VR into mass consumption... is a title with the power and draw,  similar to Super Mario Bros. for the NES...  which basically sold that system like Hotcakes.    Sega's  Master-System had some great games.. but nothing they had, could compare + compete with Marios playability + its addictive draw.


 I REALLY want VR... to try to draw and layout 3d prototype game design concepts + ship and character design works.   I can not stand 2d based 3d programs... but I have a feeling that I could really do some great stuff, with a VR setup...

[Rattus]

Question for all the VR experts here. Is it possible to play mame with a VR unit ?

What I am most interested in is Vector game emulation.

Can I play the old vector games with nice bright vectors that look better than CRT or LCD?

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

[fallacy]

Ya I mean if nothing else you can load something like virtual desktop which just shows your desktop and you can adjust the size and distance of the screen and launch mame.

There is something like Retro Arcade which is a nice VR 80's arcade you can walk around in, than you can try to run your own mame games off the VR machines. A Lot of complaining that it is really hard to get the games and graphics to work though. You would also want the arcade machines to run a video preview when you are not playing them which makes it even more difficult.

My favorite one that they are working on right now is called 3DNesVR. They will let you download a demo, there are 8 or so games you can load as long as you have the NES rom. One of them is Super Mario. That was a holy crap moment they made it 3d! With the Rift you have two motion controllers with thumb sticks and buttons so you can just play an old game a whole different light. I can't wait until they get zelda and contra and a few others to work with it.

[pbj]

Ultrawings has been quite fun and a nice break from all the VR murder simulators.

[mimic]

Completed Moss yesterday. I highly recommend it. Only in VR can you play a platformer and physically interact with the environment or be able to peek around corners to find hidden scrolls, paths, etc. Short but very cool!

What is disappointing though is Samsung Odyssey plus. Discomfort is off the scale! Light leak, I can stick a pencil between the frame and around almost my entire face. PSVR also utilizes halo design, but at least the HMD slides forward so it can be adjusted to my liking, but this thing... just awful. Even the no SDE is not that great. It makes everything feel very soft and blurry. The only redeeming quality is that I can sit down in front of my computer to enjoy it (kind of, given all the other issues). The Inside out tracking is actually not bad. Not perfect, but quite good. It looses controllers rather occasionally.

I see pbj is a full VR convert now, even Howard Casto after ridiculing VR dipped his toes (in poo poo experience, but I guess it's a start!) Current state is just a beginning, I bet it will only get accepted more not less. Hardware sales seem to only confirm it as more and more headsets are being added according to Steam surveys.   

[pbj]

Not sure if I like Farpoint or not.  By default, it's set up so that you can't turn your character around - only forward, backward, and strafe left and right.  The levels appear designed so that this isn't an issue.  You can enable turning, and there's lots of variations in the comfort settings, but it still feels like an on rails shooter.  It's probably better with the Aim controller but I'm not spending $60 on that thing.

Premise is pretty ridiculous, too.  You go from exploring a space anomaly to shooting alien crab spiders in about 5 minutes without comment.  Oh well, bang bang bang.

[RandyT]

What is disappointing though is Samsung Odyssey plus. Discomfort is off the scale! Light leak, I can stick a pencil between the frame and around almost my entire face. PSVR also utilizes halo design, but at least the HMD slides forward so it can be adjusted to my liking, but this thing... just awful. Even the no SDE is not that great. It makes everything feel very soft and blurry.

The reports about the Plus version make me feel better about my OG.  Maybe that was was Samsung's intention

Not sure if I like Farpoint or not.  By default, it's set up so that you can't turn your character around - only forward, backward, and strafe left and right.  The levels appear designed so that this isn't an issue.  You can enable turning, and there's lots of variations in the comfort settings, but it still feels like an on rails shooter.  It's probably better with the Aim controller but I'm not spending $60 on that thing.

Premise is pretty ridiculous, too.  You go from exploring a space anomaly to shooting alien crab spiders in about 5 minutes without comment.  Oh well, bang bang bang.

The Aim controller makes the game miles better.  You will still have the same issues you noted, but they tend to not be as important.  Battle any 50ft spiders yet?

[kane916]

The Aim controller is worth it for other games. Farpoint made me sick after about 30 minutes but I played firewall zero hour for close to three hours with zero sickness with it and loved it. Funny thing is I never messed with the settings for farpoint so it should have be less likely to make me sick but firewall I took all the setting that are suppose to make you less sick off and was fine. I guess everyone is different and each game is different on the getting sick thing. Overall though I highly recommend anyone with a psvr to get firewall it's like counter strike or rainbow six but in VR. You can play it with a DS4 (I haven't)but with the aim it was some of the most fun I have had with a multiplayer game in years. I have used the Aim with a few other games like dick wild and did enjoy it too. I got the Aim bundled with farpoint on sale a little after release for $60. Totally worth it for me.

[pbj]

Well, if any of you are in Houston and want to screw with your head, I've got the study for you.

First you're taken into the deepest, darkest bowels of a basement.  Then you're strapped into a car seat in front of a giant monitor and immobilized with a Silence of the Lambs style mask, 3D glasses, and white noise generating headphones.  This car seat is mounted to a platform that moves XYZ and and twists left and right.  Then they flip off the lights.

Your objective is to steer yourself to a target in 3D space that's only shown briefly.  Over and over for 2 hours.  It's like a more immersive yet less fun Battlezone.

Would have been an incredible setup for Mechwarrior or something similar.

[RandyT]

Well, if any of you are in Houston and want to screw with your head, I've got the study for you.

Interesting.  What is the goal of the study?

[pbj]

They study balance. Vestibular lab. So the platform is likely moving the "wrong" direction from time to time to screw with your senses.