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Author Topic: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing  (Read 10421 times)

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Titchgamer

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I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #320 on: May 16, 2017, 02:12:20 pm »
I has a analogue sticks on it so you can navigate FPS's etc.

https://youtu.be/6Jv3VGfzpM8
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 02:14:14 pm by Titchgamer »

CoryBee

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #321 on: May 16, 2017, 03:22:34 pm »
 :cheers:

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #322 on: May 17, 2017, 08:05:32 pm »
Quote
My guess is that Sony paid big money for the VR exclusive, at least for now, to help move the headsets.  There have been over 50 million PS4s sold, so that's an awful lot of potential customers who don't need to purchase that piece of the equation.

I don't have the headset yet, but it is moving through the mail now.  I already bought Battlezone, for less than half of the list price, during the last flash sale.  Seemed like a good first title for me

I thought I told you not to buy one; Reverse psychology?
I played Battlezone last night than I refunded it after 30 minutes; game looked to flat and played to stiff, plus getting me sick from the free movement, ow well on to the next game.

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #323 on: May 18, 2017, 01:42:28 pm »


Had this show up tonight.
Ile let yall know what its like once ive had a go.

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #324 on: May 18, 2017, 02:00:41 pm »
I thought I told you not to buy one; Reverse psychology?
I played Battlezone last night than I refunded it after 30 minutes; game looked to flat and played to stiff, plus getting me sick from the free movement, ow well on to the next game.

No.  I got it for half of the going price on a used unit, by taking a chance on a new seller.  It's all I was willing to do, and honestly, I think the PSVR has the best chance of getting good support.  Hope the lenses aren't scratched or something. :)

I'm an arcade buff, and the "Classic mode" seemed like a nice bonus.  I hear folks talking about the 80's "dream of being in the game".  Well there's your chance to be "in" Battlezone.  And I don't get motion sickness. :)

Had this show up tonight.
Ile let yall know what its like once ive had a go.

I almost pulled the trigger on that myself, but figured I'd wait to make sure the unit is working well first.  I think the extra for the gun will be money well-spent, as I expect this to be used in future titles of that genre.
Interested to hear what you think about it.

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #325 on: May 18, 2017, 02:06:14 pm »

Had this show up tonight.
Ile let yall know what its like once ive had a go.

I almost pulled the trigger on that myself, but figured I'd wait to make sure the unit is working well first.  I think the extra for the gun will be money well-spent, as I expect this to be used in future titles of that genre.
Interested to hear what you think about it.

Me to, I expect the cost of the controller on its own to exceed the value of it compared to the bundle (as is usually the way with Sony stuff) and yes they are already making more compatible titles which I am looking forward to!

I have always been a huge light gun game fan so to combine Light guns, FPS and VR...

Well I had to have it LOL

Howard_Casto

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #326 on: May 18, 2017, 02:46:17 pm »
So Sony's solution to the VR motion control problem is the rip-off the Wii zapper?  LOL.  The whole issue with the zapper (and it's ps3 knockoff) was that it was never quite 1 to 1, so you had to look at the screen and re-calibrate based on where the gun really is.  Since you can't see where the gun really is, I can see this as a problem. 

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #327 on: May 18, 2017, 04:23:00 pm »
So Sony's solution to the VR motion control problem is the rip-off the Wii zapper?  LOL.  The whole issue with the zapper (and it's ps3 knockoff) was that it was never quite 1 to 1, so you had to look at the screen and re-calibrate based on where the gun really is.  Since you can't see where the gun really is, I can see this as a problem.

Not used it yet but I have used motion controllers on Rush of Blood (which is basically the same in terms of tracking)
And they worked fine.

The only time I had calibration issues is when I cocked up and hid the light sphere by doing something daft lol

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #328 on: May 19, 2017, 03:21:43 am »
So Sony's solution to the VR motion control problem is the rip-off the Wii zapper?  LOL.  The whole issue with the zapper (and it's ps3 knockoff) was that it was never quite 1 to 1, so you had to look at the screen and re-calibrate based on where the gun really is.  Since you can't see where the gun really is, I can see this as a problem.

This is a whole different type of use for this similar, but definitely not the same, technology.  There is no "screen" to lose calibration to.  The visual display and the gun position, are being tracked by a front camera.  If the software is well written, it can position the virtual gun relative to the display.  Also, since you can't see the real gun you are holding, so long as you feel like your actions are reflected reasonably well in virtual space, it should be able to deliver the desired effect of being able to aim down the sights and hit what you are shooting at.

In other words, no calibration should be necessary, 

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #329 on: May 19, 2017, 05:17:03 am »
You do calibrate in a fashion but its more of a calibration of the gun to you than the gun to the TV/Sensor.

Rush of blood asks you to hold the guns and shoot at the start.
You cant loose calibration of the guns themselves but if you hide the sphere like I did the once it can knock your on screen sights out if that makes sense.

Like I said some posts back though I felt the movement between my hands and aim was good

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #330 on: May 19, 2017, 10:46:32 am »
You do calibrate in a fashion but its more of a calibration of the gun to you than the gun to the TV/Sensor.

I guess that would make sense.  Everyone is different with regard to distance between waist and eye, just like different IPDs.  Does that become part of your stored profile, or is that strictly an in-game thing?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:49:55 am by RandyT »

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #331 on: May 19, 2017, 10:47:25 am »
You do calibrate in a fashion but its more of a calibration of the gun to you than the gun to the TV/Sensor.

I guess that would make sense.  Everyone is different with regard to distance between waist and eye, just like different IPDs.  Does that become part of your stored profile, or is that an in-game thing?

Its a in game thing but literally takes 2 seconds.

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #332 on: May 19, 2017, 01:15:32 pm »
How have you not played with the Aim controller yet????  :lol

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #333 on: May 19, 2017, 02:05:52 pm »
How have you not played with the Aim controller yet????  :lol

Yup Just finished a hour and a half session with it ;)
Only reason I stopped was because of a call of nature haha!

Ok so here is my run down on this:

Its ---smurfing--- awesome!

I could leave it at that but I will elaborate.

The aim controller works really well, flawlessly in fact. I did not have to calibrate it, But the game did ask me how tall I was and to move my camera as its meant to be played standing.
I took the lazy option and remained seated LOL
It feels and points really good and was always pointing and moving the way I was so yeah 10/10 for the controller well worth the money.

The game arghh if there is a game to try PSVR on its gota be this!
Its lived up to my expectations (of the PSVR not VR in general thats got a long way to go before we are on the holo deck lol)

So yeah it plays like a FPS in VR should imo.
You use one stick to move forward/back and strafe.
My only complaint about the game (which is a silly thing) is that the 2nd stick is not enabled to turn you by default. It was only after the 2nd level I figured out you could enable it in the options which made the game play so much smoother and allowed to to make quicker turns etc.

Its a slow starter but once it starts it picks up pace fast. The game has been designed cleverly as well and made good use of light and dark to fool you into seeing things.
Which makes the enemy AI seem clever as they use this to full advantage by distracting you and the little buggers sneaking up on you!
There have been several occurrences of me hearing something, turning my head and damn near shitting myself because I had not seen something.
Also got my heart racing!

Erm it plays well, has a co-op (not tried yet but i want to) and yeah so far I am really enjoying it.

I have also been pleasantly surprised that I have not had any motion sickness, not sure if thats me getting used to VR now or the game design.

Graphically its nicely done as well.

So yeah go out and buy the bundle Randy before the controller is like £60 on its own lol

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #334 on: May 19, 2017, 02:12:14 pm »
Headset arrives tomorrow....If it's not beaten to death, I'll be picking up the bundle.  Thanks for the review (and being the guinea pig :) )
 

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #335 on: May 19, 2017, 02:18:14 pm »
Headset arrives tomorrow....If it's not beaten to death, I'll be picking up the bundle.  Thanks for the review (and being the guinea pig :) )
 

No problem LOL

Rush of blood was fun but its not a patch on this.
Farpoint really is something else and I think its set the bar for things to come.

Just one other negative (again minor) some of the cinematics seem a little odd in terms of the POV they are shot from.
Like one I seemed to be looking from the prospective of something on the floor.
Not sure if it was meant to be like a fallen down web cam or something as it was after a crash.

Who knows lol

Like I said silly really :p

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #336 on: May 19, 2017, 03:22:31 pm »
Just one other negative (again minor) some of the cinematics seem a little odd in terms of the POV they are shot from.
Like one I seemed to be looking from the prospective of something on the floor.
Not sure if it was meant to be like a fallen down web cam or something as it was after a crash.

Who knows lol

Like I said silly really :p

I've seen some 360 videos shot this way too.  I think some of it is done to show some of the gimmicky capabilities of VR, like being a bug or something.  To me, it feels like being beneath the floor with just your head poking out.

Maybe it was supposed to infer that you fell on the floor from the crash, and decided to lay there for a while and watch :)

dkersten

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #337 on: May 19, 2017, 06:21:19 pm »
https://blog.vive.com/us/2017/05/17/vive-standalone-headsets-for-google-daydream/

Standalone Vive, no computer needed.. Might bridge the gap from the cardboard VR to a full blown Vive..

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #338 on: May 19, 2017, 06:55:01 pm »
Quote
https://blog.vive.com/us/2017/05/17/vive-standalone-headsets-for-google-daydream/

Standalone Vive, no computer needed.. Might bridge the gap from the cardboard VR to a full blown Vive..

So basically a phone built in and covered up… There delux headstrap for the Vive has taken 6 months after they showed it and still has not come out

The next step will be wireless but when they decide to introduce 4k headsets than wireless will no longer work again so that is a whole thing.

I am calling stupid on that either it is cheap with low processing power taking a step back from the VR we have today or expensive and just barely match the VR we have today with no upgrade-ability.

shponglefan

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #339 on: May 19, 2017, 07:10:38 pm »
So basically a phone built in and covered up…

The nice thing about standalone is they aren't slaves to a phone's existing form factor.  They are free to use independent screens designed for VR, and tracking and processing specifically optimized for the same.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #340 on: May 19, 2017, 07:12:04 pm »
Hang the wire from the ceiling if you want 360 play. I was able to get my
Vive and Rift 2 players at the same time dungon crawling in RecRoom playing on the same machine, without running into each other using motion stools or getting in the way of each other's sensors.

I have a second gaming PC if more headsets come out I am going to try to get a 3 or even 4 player team all at the same time.



fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #341 on: May 19, 2017, 07:28:29 pm »
Quote
The nice thing about standalone is they aren't slaves to a phone's existing form factor.  They are free to use independent screens designed for VR, and tracking and processing specifically optimized for the same.

thats true but there is still only so much they can do with the on board battery and processing power. Shoot we are complaining because they are still to heavy now. That solves witless but adds more problems. I think it is still to early maybe in another 5 years it might all get small thin and light enough but right now it is not going to appeal to people that are already into VR.

jtslade

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #342 on: May 19, 2017, 08:08:40 pm »
Randy playing Dirt Rally with a good wheel, shifter and pedals on a HTC Vive is freaking amazing. I got a copy cheap in a humble bundle and used my Logitech G25. Did a section from Rally Deutschland that I have been to IRL and it was really incredible.


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Titchgamer

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dkersten

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #344 on: May 21, 2017, 03:57:28 pm »
My son came by the office Friday afternoon and was telling me that his cousin got a PSVR.  He said it was pretty unimpressive after playing on the Vive, although his cousin thought it was pretty amazing.  Made him sick pretty fast, and he figured it was the tracking being a bit slow.  He played the vive for hours without a problem.  I thought it was interesting because he just brought it up out of the blue. 

I can see standalone being pretty awesome.  The weight of the vive is not a big deal, it is the weight balance that is the problem.  Besides, the majority of weight in a standalone unit is always going to be the battery.  Frankly I would live with some extra weight if it means having a 8-10k mAh battery for several hours of use on a charge.  Put that heavy battery on the back of the head along with the processing and you have a balanced headset that is far more comfortable.

It's anyone's guess if the standalone will utilize lighthouses still.  Personally I would prefer it, given how much better tracking is vs a phone or even psvr.  I think some kind of reference tracking to the real world is critical to prevent motion sickness.  The first thing I was impressed with on the Vive was how well it tracked my motion.  That blew me away more than any other aspect of it.

Biggest problem I see with a standalone is the ability to process high res video at 90fps+ with an android processor.  Perhaps they have figured that out but I am cautiously optimistic about it. 

I am considering picking up some flash stands so I can set up the Vive in my apartment.  I have the room if I move the dining table to the side, but I'm not sure it is worth the effort as I am traveling so much lately and playing games at home is low on the priority list. 

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #345 on: May 22, 2017, 12:34:56 pm »
I think we are seeing the market shifting, as I expected it would.  The $1500 cost of entry is a no brainer when it comes to barriers for mass market adoption.  HTC sees that PSVR has a distinct advantage, with it's huge installed platform user-base numbers.  The current flagship phones (and phone-oriented hardware) are moving toward faster sensor pipelines and OLED screens, and Google is pushing to be a big player in the market, by offering a unified development package for yet another platform with massive numbers of current users.  HTC would be stupid to ignore these facts.  High-end VR will continue on, but will be relegated to smaller numbers of users, just as enthusiast-level graphics cards are now.  Support for the higher end may suffer a bit, as the market shifts more toward the center, but I don't see it going anywhere.

My PSVR and Move controllers arrived.  There are a couple scratches in the AR coating on one of the lenses, but it doesn't appear to affect anything.  Outside of that, I got a great deal on the hardware.  Sony did a very good job with the design of this unit, but they dropped the ball by not having some means to adjust the focus for each eye independently.  They say glasses are ok inside the unit, but I can feel the contact between the lenses, and I won't use them that way.  Spacers might work, but will create gaps, letting more outside light in, and increasing the "tunnel-view" effect.  From my experience, the lenses should be so close to your eyes that your eyelashes nearly brush the lenses every time you blink.  The removable, thin rubber surround is great.  You never really feel like the unit is mashed onto your face, which is huge where comfort is concerned.  It's also easy to remove and clean.  The unit is also well balanced, and very light.

On the performance side, I'm impressed, but at the same time, a little disappointed.  The resolution is pretty poor, and from what I gather, this is common to all of the units available, even the expensive ones.  It's lower than the Vive, but the difference, at least on paper, is small.  The PSVR may actually have an advantage, due to having no real "screen-door" effect, but it has it's own visual issues, namely what I know as a "linen" effect.  It's like looking though extremely sheer fabric.  Bright scenes seem to lose a bit of contrast, and instead of seeing pixelated images, things tend to appear very soft.  It's particularly noticeable at distance.  It's like everyone entering the realm of VR suddenly becomes mildly near-sighted :), and the linen-effect is always there, which affects the immersion factor.  Color rendition is very nice.  The brightness can easily be set to a third of what the unit is cable of, and still be plenty bright and vibrant.

The tracking works well, but is also not perfect.  Sony seems to be aware of  this, as they have made it very easy to re-center the view.  Not sure what the technical reasons are for this, but it seems to lose it's place when moving outside the view of the camera.  But it still works, and works well.  Error tends to be small, and I haven't really found the need to re-center during gameplay.  I think positioning of the camera has an effect on accuracy, and probably works best when it's not a lot higher or lower than eye-height.  This is something I will be experimenting with.

On the software side, I've only played with a few things, so this part is of my thoughts is ongoing.  Battlezone, as indicated earlier, is a bit "flat".  The arenas are huge, and the resolution limitations come into play.  The cockpit and close-by objects are rendered nicely, but much of this game takes place at long distances, where visual acuity drops off significantly, unless the targets are very large.  In my opinion, this type of title is not well suited to the current state of display technology.  The free "The Kitchen" demo from RE7, was interesting, and definitely creepy.
 The Playroom VR, on the other hand, is nothing short of amazing. Japan Studio show that they really understand how to use the capabilities of the PSVR to advantage, and the execution of the mini-games is nearly flawless.  The games are fun, and off-the-charts cute.  So much so, I can see hardcore Nintendo fans like Howard, grinning ear-to-ear from start to finish.  You really do feel like you are in the environment with, and not just watching, the crazy little robots, who react to you when you focus your attention to them.  The games take place in areas which are no larger than can be effectively utilized by the hardware, with the possible exception of the 3D platformer.  In this game, you can see a fair distance into the playing area, and the resolution becomes a limitation to the sense of immersion.  But in areas close-by, where the action is taking place, it works perfectly, and shows just how impressive and playable a 3D platformer can be with this technology.   

The experience inside the "Playroom" was the first time I really felt a disconnect from the outside world.  Specifically, while seated on a swivel chair in the real world, with the VR crane machine in front of me, I spun quickly to look more closely at one of the items in the room, and actually had the sense that I was going to bang my knee on the machine, as I was so close to it.  When it didn't happen, I felt my brain try to reconcile the reason why. :)  That one event was the signal that I had actually become immersed in the environment, and it was a powerful moment.

My conclusion is that the tech is definitely here to stay, but much will depend on developers' understanding of the limitations, and effectively using what they have to work with.  If the market gets flooded with "shovelware" it could take the tech down quickly, but unlike other previous tech, there is a lot more here to work with.  I already ordered the Farpoint bundle, and I think that will provide a better idea as to where things will be heading.  Those with a PS4 already, who have the money to spend or the opportunity to get a good deal on  the hardware, should definitely consider picking one up.  VR isn't going to be great until the resolution/processing/cost barriers start falling rapidly, but it does have quite a bit of potential in it's current state. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 01:03:13 pm by RandyT »

Titchgamer

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #346 on: May 22, 2017, 12:59:51 pm »
Glad you have enjoyed the experience Randy!
Its like we have all said it is hard to appreciate it until you have tried it and had a positive experience!

Totally agree though the high end VR is never going to be a "thing" of success due to the cost.

I wouldn't drop several k into it at this point in time, But I am happy enough spending a few hundred for a good peripheral for something I already own.
Again I agree the resolution etc has a way to go but think we all knew that.
The thing is once you stop looking at it to nit pick and just play its not something you notice that much.

As for the camera and tracking I have found it best for the camera to be about head height or just slightly lower if possible.
Also it does not like harsh light shining on it so if you can close curtains and turn off lights this helps and gets rid of light creeping in ;)

Just my findings :)

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #347 on: May 22, 2017, 10:35:13 pm »
Quote
but much of this game takes place at long distances, where visual acuity drops off significantly, unless the targets are very large.  In my opinion, this type of title is not well suited to the current state of display technology.

I have not tried a PSVR but I had the DK2 and noticed from a distance everything would get pixelated. With the Vive and Rift that does not seem to be a problem anymore. Sounds like the PSVR lower resolution is actually an issue for games and not just a small complaint.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 10:37:32 pm by fallacy »

dkersten

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #348 on: May 23, 2017, 10:10:39 am »
In the past, it was common for television retailers to display animated movies on their showroom floor over real film movies.  The animation will always look sharper and of course is usually more vibrant, making the display look better than it is.  When you play content that your brain knows exactly how it should look, you notice the flaws more readily.  This is particularly true in VR.  You spent your whole life knowing how the real world looks, so seeing it at a lower resolution than your eyes are capable of seeing is going to be immediately apparent.  But if you play a game in a fake world with oversaturated colors, simplified textures, and basic geometry, you stop looking at resolution and start seeing the world you are playing in.  This is going to be an issue until they can render even far distance graphics at 4k+ levels, which is a long way off.  To me, the content that highlights the shortcomings of VR resolution is any app where you are looking at a mountain range or anything in the distance.  You notice immediately how crappy it looks because you are trying to focus on tiny details in the distance.  But put yourself in a more closed environment like a forest, and keep your focus on something like the dinosaur you are hunting, or a zombie that is rushing through the brush at you, and you would have to work hard to notice the lower resolution.  When that zombie is eating your face, you don't see the pixels so much any more. 

Of course, the first thing you want to do when in VR is to travel somewhere in the world you have never been, or stand on a mountain top, or at the top of a tall building, and that just highlights the shortcomings of the tech.

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #349 on: May 23, 2017, 10:46:05 am »
I have not tried a PSVR but I had the DK2 and noticed from a distance everything would get pixelated. With the Vive and Rift that does not seem to be a problem anymore. Sounds like the PSVR lower resolution is actually an issue for games and not just a small complaint.

I've done a fair amount of research on this.  OLED screens don't work the same way as LCD.  Each pixel is made up of multiple RGB sub-pixels, much like a CRT.  Also like a CRT, each sub-pixel has it's own "personality".  VR use really requires pixels intended to be overlaid, to have the same brightness and color characteristics.  With larger objects, things average out and they appear detailed, with a bit of "mura" effect.  But smaller things tend to get "muddy".  Lost in the "noise", if you will.  Optics and processing power comes into play as well.  On the optics side, the PSVR uses glass lenses, whereas the others use plastic fresnels.  The PSVR doesn't get the "god rays" when bright objects appear on a dark background, but there is some chromatic aberration outside of the "sweet spot".  The net effect of the aberration is similar to RGB misalignment on a CRT.  Again, not really a problem for large objects, but smaller objects lose detail, as a greater percentage of the pixels comprising the object, are "noise".  Processing power comes into play where anti-aliasing is concerned, but given the nature of the OLED display, and the type of optics used, too much anti-aliasing may actually be doing more harm than good.  I have tried a number of the demos, and it's interesting how some titles appear sharp, while others are, to my eyes, a blurry mess (Drive Club VR is a prime example of this).  It may very well be that the harder they try to cram anti-aliased detail into the smaller pixel count, the worse things become.

I've also heard that there is something which the PSVR does to try to increase apparent resolution, through the manipulation of these sub-pixels.  If that's the case, it may be trading pixelation for "fuzz".  It may be something they can tweak down the road.

PSVR developers are still finding their footing with the technology and it's limitations, so it may just be something which improves over time.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #350 on: May 23, 2017, 11:40:11 am »
MMMM you know I have always been wondering why they both went  with those fresnels that cause godrays when they did not have the issue with the DK2 to begin with,  but if they help battle being able to make out small things out in the center of your screens(basically what you are looking at and trying to focus on) it makes more sense why they went that way.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 11:43:31 am by fallacy »

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #351 on: May 23, 2017, 11:57:27 am »
MMMM you know I have always been wondering why they both went  with those fresnels that cause godrays when they did not have the issue with the DK2 to begin with,  but if they help battle being able to make out small things out in the center of your screens(basically what you are looking at and trying to focus on) it makes more sense why they went that way.

I'm sure that's not the primary reason.  Fresnels are cheaper, lighter and smaller.  They also suffer from aberrations, just a different kind.  If you are looking directly at something, and the "sweet spot" is aligned correctly, there's no issue with glass lenses.  At that point, the display/processing limitations are what is seen.

I used to work in the optics industry, and I can tell you that the simple optical systems in these headsets will always have limitations.  More complex designs, with multiple lenses and filters, would do a lot better job.  But these systems would be larger, heavier and cost more to produce than what the whole headset currently sells for.

dkersten

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #352 on: May 23, 2017, 12:15:06 pm »
I'd pay double to have glass lenses that matched my prescription.  It is one of the biggest limitations for me.  Glasses work fine, but I inevitably smudge them putting the headset on.  And the lenses in the headset are hard to keep clean enough not to have halos around bright images.  I worry that over time I will scratch or dull the plastic lenses trying to keep them clean.  A little sweat and some oily skin and it is a mess for optics...  And I would kill to have individual focus per lens as well. 

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #353 on: May 23, 2017, 12:33:09 pm »
Processing power comes into play where anti-aliasing is concerned, but given the nature of the OLED display, and the type of optics used, too much anti-aliasing may actually be doing more harm than good.  I have tried a number of the demos, and it's interesting how some titles appear sharp, while others are, to my eyes, a blurry mess (Drive Club VR is a prime example of this).  It may very well be that the harder they try to cram anti-aliased detail into the smaller pixel count, the worse things become.

It's not just anti-aliasing, but the type of anti-aliasing that makes a big difference.  It's especially bad in Unreal engine games using temporal AA which can be blurry as hell.  OTOH, super-sampling can achieve the benefits of anti-aliasing, but retaining detail.  This is something I've noticed with the Vive and using SS is that its resolution is better than it appears at first glance.  A lot depends on the rendering engine and AA used.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #354 on: May 23, 2017, 12:46:32 pm »
Quote
It's not just anti-aliasing, but the type of anti-aliasing that makes a big difference.  It's especially bad in Unreal engine games using temporal AA which can be blurry as hell.  OTOH, super-sampling can achieve the benefits of anti-aliasing, but retaining detail.  This is something I've noticed with the Vive and using SS is that its resolution is better than it appears at first glance.  A lot depends on the rendering engine and AA used.

Unreal Engine is pissing me off I am not sure if that anti-aliasing bug has been fixed now or not. Even a game like “I Expect you to Die” had no problem when they released a demo several years ago. You download the full game now off steam it has the anti-aliasing problem. It is irritating that these good games being ruined with this bug.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #355 on: May 23, 2017, 12:51:23 pm »
Quote
I'd pay double to have glass lenses that matched my prescription.  It is one of the biggest limitations for me.  Glasses work fine, but I inevitably smudge them putting the headset on.  And the lenses in the headset are hard to keep clean enough not to have halos around bright images.  I worry that over time I will scratch or dull the plastic lenses trying to keep them clean.  A little sweat and some oily skin and it is a mess for optics...  And I would kill to have individual focus per lens as well. 

What prevents glasses users from getting lasic? If you need glasses in your VR device than you need schedule a consultation for lasic! I never heard anyone say they regret getting it done only that they wish they had done it sooner.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #356 on: May 23, 2017, 01:15:27 pm »
Eye surgery, any eye surgery, is dangerous.  Glasses aren't.  Also if you get lasic at an early age then look forward to getting it again.... and again.... and again because the surgery causes scars that thicken over time and ironically cause vision problems.  You also have a small risk of growing adhesions, which will essentially make you blind and result in even more frequent surgeries just to have poorer vision than when you started.  (See Kathy Griffin).  Even ignoring all of that, there are some people that just aren't viable candidates for the surgery due to any number of medical reasons. 

I how that educated you somewhat. 

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #357 on: May 23, 2017, 01:54:20 pm »
you wont know any of that until you go in for a consultation's on your condition.

dkersten

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #358 on: May 23, 2017, 02:20:16 pm »
Quote
I'd pay double to have glass lenses that matched my prescription.  It is one of the biggest limitations for me.  Glasses work fine, but I inevitably smudge them putting the headset on.  And the lenses in the headset are hard to keep clean enough not to have halos around bright images.  I worry that over time I will scratch or dull the plastic lenses trying to keep them clean.  A little sweat and some oily skin and it is a mess for optics...  And I would kill to have individual focus per lens as well. 

What prevents glasses users from getting lasic? If you need glasses in your VR device than you need schedule a consultation for lasic! I never heard anyone say they regret getting it done only that they wish they had done it sooner.
I can't do Lasik, but I can do PRK, which for me is $6k and I am at the outer limit of what they can do (they can go to +3, I am at +3.25 in one eye), so they can't completely correct one eye.  I would still need to wear glasses every day though, because even with contacts in I can't see stuff close, and I have no desire to have one reader eye and one distance eye.  I wear contacts and glasses now.  That way I can wear regular sunglasses outside as long as I don't need to look at my phone or read anything under 4 feet away.

That being said, yeah, I am considering doing it even though my doctor says it is a waste of money.  Not having to put in contacts every morning would be worth it eventually.

I have used the Vive without my readers, and it works OK, just not perfect.

dkersten

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #359 on: May 23, 2017, 02:26:08 pm »
I've had one eye surgery already (when I was 13) but not on the lenses.  I got a sliver of metal in one eye about 15 years ago, and the result is a scar that makes regular lasik too difficult, so they would do PRK instead, which takes several weeks to heal and during healing you go from your old vision to the corrected vision, which would make my work difficult, and I can't take 4 weeks off to heal.

Otherwise I am only mildly worried about the chance of a problem.  I do fear being blind, but it is extremely rare when using competent doctors.  If I had like -1 vision and could do the $200 lasik with a coupon, THAT would give me more pause than doing a full on PRK at the limits of what they can correct.  You don't have many hacks doing $6k surgeries, but those $100 per eye laser surgeries are being done by "technicians" with sometimes zero experience.  No thanks.

  
 

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