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Author Topic: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??  (Read 5952 times)

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bluelight

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Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« on: February 12, 2016, 10:27:54 pm »
Hey guys,

So I am planning to start painting my cab tomorrow. I have some oil based Kilz for primer and have Rustoleum Satin Black for the paint along with a few 2 inch rollers (probably should have gotten bigger but maybe it will work.)

My plan is to do 2 coats of primer (sanding with either 120 or 220 grit between coats) and then about 3 coats of the black paint (sanding with 220 grit between coats and no sanding on last coat.)

My main question is, what about the edges of the MDF? I have heard that some people seal the edges with some kind of drywall putty but I dont want to mess with that if not necessary. Another thing I saw is some just use oil based primer on the edges.

I just want to know what you guys suggest.. should I just leave the edges alone or should I prime them with kilz? I will have t-molding around the edges on the side pieces.

Also, my plan right now is so ONLY paint what can be seen and is not covered by vinyl stickers and not the inside of the cabinet... but then I heard that MDF gives off some sort of formaldahyde gas and that it is supposed to all be sealed atleast with one coat of primer or paint.

My concern is my 4 year old will be playing with this a lot and want to know what you guys think about having to seal everything including the inside.

Thanks all! :)

fablog

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2016, 11:07:40 pm »
Very good question.

bluelight

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2016, 04:08:21 pm »
Very good question.

Thanks... I wish someone would answer it. Lol

I guess it's my fault for not asking sooner and now I have to start painting in an hour.

jennifer

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2016, 05:26:53 pm »
     Sounds as if you got a good plan,Most cabs are bare wood on the edges, what your reading most likely is someone thinking it will be more awesome in terms of moisture, and in the case of the putty most likely trying to smooth the edges a bit, Fibre glass resin would be better but would offer little benefit and is unnecessary.... Jennifer would change a couple things in your plan a bit however, First get a big roller,  second don't sand the colorcoat, just paint lightly barely covering, a good wet coat with even coverage, and a last wet coat with a splash of reducer to help melt the orange peel from the previous coats, allow tacking between coats, but keeping it wet making sure you get a little color along the edges just in case your "T" doesnt lay completely flat, And finally a 4 year old probably shouldn't have access to the inside anyway so to finish the inside well that's your call....Good luck friend, hope to see when your done!  :P

bluelight

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 09:45:52 pm »
     Sounds as if you got a good plan,Most cabs are bare wood on the edges, what your rnoonag most likely is someone thinking it will be more awesome in terms of moisture, and in the case of the putty most likely trying to smooth the edges a bit, Fibre glass resin would be better but would offer little benefit and is unnecessary.... Jennifer would change a couple things in your plan a bit however, First get a big roller,  second don't sand the colorcoat, just paint lightly barely covering, a good wet coat with even coverage, and a last wet coat with a splash of reducer to help melt the orange peel from the previous coats, allow tacking between coats, but keeping it wet making sure you get a little color along the edges just in case your "T" doesnt lay completely flat, And finally a 4 year old probably shouldn't have access to the inside anyway so to finish the inside well that's your call....Good luck friend, hope to see when your done!  :P

Some of what you said is over my head. I don't understand what reducer is or how to use it. Is that the same as thinner? Also what does allow tacking mean? I am a big noob at painting. Currently I did my first primer coat and the next day sanded with a sanding block and 220 grit paper which left scuffs in the primer. Is that normal? The primer first coat wwent on smooth. After sanding the first coat, the second coat has an orange peel look right now. Haven't sanded it yet. I'm a little discouraged at where to go from here.

bluelight

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2016, 12:10:06 am »
Also Jennifer, thanks for the reply. You are the only one who has offered any wisdom with painting so far. As for my son he will not have access to the inside of the cab... I just meant I am not sure if leaving the inside parts of the MDF raw has any negative health effects. As I mentioned, I read a few places that MDF releases gas in the air unless sealed with primer but I dont think most people paint the inside of the cabinets. If I am not mistaken, the old real cabinets were just bare MDF on the inside too.

As for my problem in my previous reply to you about the bumpy texture on the 2nd coat of primer, could it be because I used the same foam roller from the first coat? I didn't clean the roller as I was not sure if it was necessary or even possible but I do have some mineral spirits. I am thinking the dried paint on the foam roller caused the bumpy texture on the 2nd coat. Should I soak that roller in mineral spirits or just replace it with a brand new one each coat?

Again, I have no idea what I am doing here lol.

jennifer

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2016, 12:15:13 am »
    Reducer/thinner is for all practical purposes here the same thing, read the can and use what they recommend, you don't want much just a splash to help keep orange peel to a min pull your stir stick out of the cup and it should run,drip,drip (kinda like 2%milk consistency).... Your 220 wont hurt, the paint for the most part will fill them, but 400 is a better choice ,Just make sure you don't sand through to the wood or it will result in a "bullseye" unless you were to use a sealer first. Tack means let dry to touch not cured.... Recap: sand that second coat of primer lightly and completely with 400,  (just to remove orangepeel ,wipe very clean with alcohol/tac rag, set up on something so you can paint it all without stopping, and do the three coats of color as said previously.... Its not hard or magical but a nice paintjob does make it all worthwhile. (a big foam or short nap roller will make it easier)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 12:24:00 am by jennifer »

bluelight

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2016, 12:23:07 am »
    Reducer/thinner is for all practical purposes here the same thing, read the can and use what they recommend, you don't want much just a splash to help keep orange peel to a min pull your stir stick out of the cup and it should run,drip,drip (kinda like 2%milk consistency).... Your 220 wont hurt, the paint for the most part will fill them, but 400 is a better choice ,Just make sure you don't sand through to the wood or it will result in a "bullseye" unless you were to use a sealer first. Tack means let dry to touch not cured.... Recap: sand that second coat of primer lightly and completely with 400,  (just to remove orangepeel ,wipe very clean with alcohol/tac rag, set up on something so you can paint it all without stopping, and do the three coats of color as said previously.... Its not hard or magical but a nice paintjob does make it all worthwhile. (a big roller will make it easier)

Ok I will get some 400 paper tomorrow then and to the sanding with that. I'll add the splash of mineral spirits to the final (3rd likely) coat of black like you mentioned also.

jennifer

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2016, 12:27:43 am »
   You can use the reducer in all your coats if you wish, but you will have to wait a bit longer for the tac, so you don't get runs(and most likely a 4th coat) to get the mils (paint thickness)  ..... This is exciting! Hope to see some awesome!!!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 12:54:56 am by jennifer »

behrmr

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 11:09:57 am »
On your question regarding painting the edges.  Whether or not you do is your choice.  However, when I am painting a cabinet I like to paint the edges the same base color of the cabinet.  That helps hide anywhere that there may be an imperfect fit with the t-molding. 

bluelight

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 11:09:31 pm »
   You can use the reducer in all your coats if you wish, but you will have to wait a bit longer for the tac, so you don't get runs(and most likely a 4th coat) to get the mils (paint thickness)  ..... This is exciting! Hope to see some awesome!!!

Hey just a quick question about my 2nd coat of primer having the orange peel pattern. If I sand it until it FEELS smooth to the touch but I can still see the pattern.. it that pattern still going to show through the paint or no?

its like the pattern is there but it has flattened out from sanding.

jennifer

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2016, 12:34:12 am »
    It will be accentuated by your color coats, considerably more peel than you got there now and the nap of the roller your using can make it even worse, Black is actually the absence of color, and very difficult to pull off as flat and perfect, too much orangepeel and you may run into sticker/art adhesion problems.... I would sand it flat without burning through, and start building up your desired texture again using the same nap roller you used for the primer, and the first 3 coat system first described. Don't stress though, if it doesn't turn out as you wish, We can color sand and do another coat after it dries, (if you still have enough paint, and easiest in the 12-24 hour window after your first paintjob).... Trick: on your first coat don't be all about coverage, put it on light and even, there should be some bald spots, but coat #2, complete wet coat covers that and #3, complete wet coat (slightly thinned) melts it all together.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 12:40:43 am by jennifer »

bluelight

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 11:06:30 pm »
    It will be accentuated by your color coats, considerably more peel than you got there now and the nap of the roller your using can make it even worse, Black is actually the absence of color, and very difficult to pull off as flat and perfect, too much orangepeel and you may run into sticker/art adhesion problems.... I would sand it flat without burning through, and start building up your desired texture again using the same nap roller you used for the primer, and the first 3 coat system first described. Don't stress though, if it doesn't turn out as you wish, We can color sand and do another coat after it dries, (if you still have enough paint, and easiest in the 12-24 hour window after your first paintjob).... Trick: on your first coat don't be all about coverage, put it on light and even, there should be some bald spots, but coat #2, complete wet coat covers that and #3, complete wet coat (slightly thinned) melts it all together.

Just wanted to update you on where I am at now. I spent a while dealing with the primer coats.. had issues with primer wearing off the face of the edges while sanding but got to the point where I got it smooth to the touch despite those spots and started the paint job now.

The primer spots didn't seem to cause too much issue with the paint.

My first coat didn't go very well LOL. I used way too much paint on the foam roller and ended up with a lot of paint runs and some roller marks also. I also had the issue of dust landing all over the wet paint while drying.. not just dust but hairs and little bugs too. My garage I guess is pretty dusty probably from working with the MDF and sanding so much before this.

Anyway, I decided because of these imperfections, I would do a light sanding on everything to try to knock off the dust and stuff.. but also had to try to sand down each of the paint runs which resulted in several spots that were sanded to primer while doing that.

I was not sure if I should repaint only those spots before doing my 2nd coat... so I just ended up doing my 2nd coat tonight and it went a lot better technique wise.

No runs that I can tell so far but still have the issue with dust and hair landing on everything. Not sure but I may see some roller lines also on the door atleast but the sides look ok.

New problem with the 2nd coat, the spots that were sanded exposing primer of course are thinner and I can see a little of the primer showing through those spots. I guess essentially what I have done was put a first coat on those spots and a 2nd coat everywhere else.

So I am wondering now should I paint only those spots again before doing a final overall 3rd coat, do a 3rd unthinned coat to get better coverage followed by a 4th thinned coat, or just to the 3rd thinned coat and everything will be fine?

The other issue is I didn't realize the temperature was going to drop tonight to around 43F so I'm not sure how that will effect the paint drying and how it will look but I am going to let it sit for 48 hours instead of 24 because of this.

jennifer

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 09:56:58 am »
      **Jenn laughs to herself ;).... Live and learn right? As long as you didn't get into the wood while sanding your correct, (A extra coat to cover your fixes wont hurt nothing), Clean is a big deal, guess you figgered that out, painting outside, or in the house might be better for this project, cold will slow down dry times (again your correct) But into the 40"s your good, into the 30s gets a bit tricky, and 20s and down well, your likely going to have issues, Next time you get a run let it set up a bit and just wipe it off with your finger.... It sounds as if you only need 1 more good clean coat to be done. :applaud:

bluelight

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2016, 12:11:44 pm »
      **Jenn laughs to herself ;).... Live and learn right? As long as you didn't get into the wood while sanding your correct, (A extra coat to cover your fixes wont hurt nothing), Clean is a big deal, guess you figgered that out, painting outside, or in the house might be better for this project, cold will slow down dry times (again your correct) But into the 40"s your good, into the 30s gets a bit tricky, and 20s and down well, your likely going to have issues, Next time you get a run let it set up a bit and just wipe it off with your finger.... It sounds as if you only need 1 more good clean coat to be done. :applaud:

Thanks. Maybe if you have time you could take a look at my other post here about wetsanding and give me some advice there? It seems difficult to get anyone else to respond. :/

Jamesbeat

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2016, 01:03:27 pm »
I work in the flooring industry, and environmental hazard data is something that I deal with as part of my job.

I don't know where you heard that a coat of paint will prevent outgassing, but it's not true.

The good news though is that the main risk with formaldehyde is when you are cutting the board, although this isn't something that is widely known, and certainly won't be explained in hysterical news reports.

It's true that there will be some outgassing over time, but it's not something I would worry about too much.

If I was building cabinets out of MDF for a living, I would want some kind of respirator. Building one cabinet? I wouldn't worry.
Having a single cabinet in a room? I wouldn't give it a second thought.

If you're installing 50,000 square feet of laminate flooring in a building, then you have to worry about it :D

fablog

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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2016, 07:00:59 pm »
Thx Jamesbeat, it's a very good information.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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Re: Sealing edges of MDF and MDF gas??
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2016, 02:05:39 pm »
One downside of painting  the inside of a cabinet is that it can stink for a long-long time.  Shellac dries really fast and won't stink forever.   A Boiled Linseed Oil finish on the inside of a cabinet will still reek when your great-great-grandchildren open it up.   You may want to try a bit of finish inside a small cardboard box - let it dry open for a day or two, then seal it in a garbage bag overnight.  Open the bag and if it really stinks, you may want to try a different finish.