Discs of Tron - Arcade Spinner

[Lamaman1971]

Well, its annoying but I cant find anyone that sells a spinner with a push-pull function for my Discs of Tron project.... the only folks that do are out of stock and apparently unable to use e-mail - GrooveyGameGear. So anyone got any thoughts on a alternate. Its a shame Ultimarc only do a single axis spinner as I love the iPac2....

Anyone got a good suggestion?

Cheers

Mark

[Xiaou2]

 Easiest solution:

 Make or modify a center rocking foot pedal... such as a whah-whah guitar pedal,  and use that for the up and down aiming,
It would be less authentic, and easier,  but would be pretty smooth to have separate controls.

 Hard solution:

 Build a replica, by looking at an original devices pictures.

 Medium solution:

 Place a normal spinner on a center pivoting mounting plate.   Add rubber bumpers to the bottom and top, as well as leaf switches.  Add a spring return thats stiff enough to maintain normal hand pressure... yet easy enough to rock up and down with your wrist, while spinning the knob.


 Expensive Solution:

 I 'might' be willing to part with mine... for an inflated 100% markup of what I paid for it.

[wemr97dl]

Tried myself multiple times before I finally got this response

Hi David,

This item is currently in flux. We may produce another run of the
current design, but we prefer to attempt making improvements on the
design, to make installation easier. Either way, it will likely be a
while before it is available again.

Randy

On 2/4/2016 5:59 AM,  wrote:
> I wanted a hi-lo spinner do you ever plan on getting them in stock? sent message before and have never got an answer??

[Kortoga]

Same here.  I have tried emailing groovygamegear for the same purpose, with no reply.
Searching the inter-web high and low for anyone making these or selling these, with no results.

At this point I would buy an empty box with a lie that a discs of tron type spinner is inside.
But I cannot even find that available.

I'm about to either make my own, or start designing one I can manufacture and sell myself.

That said, does anyone have any good links to "How to make your own DOT spinner".
I want a spinner like the:
- original
- Blackhawk
- Oscar
- High-Low from groovy
- something that matches the original

I do not want a mouse hack with an Atari2600 spinner.

Thanks guys...

[RandyT]

As we have recently had an unexpected outpouring of requests for the TurboTwist High-Low units, I think we will get another run of the original design into motion.  They are such a specialized item that it usually takes us about 4 years to sell 75 units (the minimum reasonable production run size).  We had hoped to make several improvements to the overall design, but the options are limited for such a device without major investments in tooling, and the market for them just isn't there to support it.

So I will get some more into production, and will keep working on the next iteration.  This way, if it takes a couple of years to bring the High-Low's successor to fruition, at least there won't be folks left without options in the meantime.

[wemr97dl]

GREAT!!! will there be a preorder list to ensure those interested wont miss them

[RandyT]

GREAT!!! will there be a preorder list to ensure those interested wont miss them

Won't be necessary.  As I indicated, the minimum production run size will likely accommodate at least a couple of years worth of sales.  We've been out of parts stock for a few months, so the extra interest is just an accumulation over that time.  Once those orders are filled, we'll likely go back to sitting on the remainder for quite a while.   But folks will need to be patient, even after the parts are in and they hit the store.  They take us time to build when they are ordered, and will need to be worked into the manufacturing queue.

[Kortoga]

Count me in!
I was seriously about to start engineering a bracket or way to take a standard on the market spinner and make it a push-pull.
This would not be a type mouse hack.  Not saying this would be easy or better than the GGG, but if left with my own self for a solution, I would find a very detailed professional way to do this.
I would rather pay someone else to do this since I have too many other projects going on outside of my normal work hours.
And I am positive GGG has many more hours of experience and knowledge on this subject I do not want to learn about.

Thank you RandyT for moving forward with another production run.  I will buy 3 of them.

[equlizer]

I have a blackhawk for sale.  Pm me.

Sold, Thx Spencer.

[matsadona]

I do not want a mouse hack with an Atari2600 spinner.

That is actually not a spinner, it is a potentiometer (with a limited turn).

[Aceldamor]

I do not want a mouse hack with an Atari2600 spinner.

That is actually not a spinner, it is a potentiometer (with a limited turn).

That depended on the spinner. Atari made two flavors, the free spin and the limited. 1 had a tennis racket on it and 1 had either an indy car or a checkered flag IIRC.

[matsadona]

I do not want a mouse hack with an Atari2600 spinner.

That is actually not a spinner, it is a potentiometer (with a limited turn).

That depended on the spinner. Atari made two flavors, the free spin and the limited. 1 had a tennis racket on it and 1 had either an indy car or a checkered flag IIRC.

Aha, I didn't know that. So there are Paddle controllers (limited motion) and Driving controllers (free movement). Now I must get some of those
Thanks!

P.S Is there anyone with the schematics for the rotary Driving controller?

[PL1]

Is there anyone with the schematics for the rotary Driving controller?

The Atari 2600 driving controller (4th diagram, Atari 2600 Accessories, top center) outputs gray code for a rotary encoder from a 16-position rotary switch.

Just tore apart a driving controller and confirmed that it is a 2-bit gray code that repeats four times per rotation.   

Blue and White = wire color in original controller

Black wire is the common/ground

X = continuity between that wire and ground, blank = open

If you break each rotation into 16 steps, the outputs are as follows:

      Blue    White
------------------ First quadrant
01
02                 X
03      X         X
04      X
------------------ Second quadrant
05      
06                 X
07      X         X
08      X   
------------------ Third quadrant
09      
10                 X
11      X         X
12      X   
------------------ Fourth quadrant
13      
14                 X
15      X         X
16      X   


Scott
EDIT: Added diagram.
Blue wire is connected to the contacts on the inner ring.
White wire is connected to the contacts on the outer ring.
Black wire (ground) is connected to the pivot arm.

Scott

[matsadona]

Is there anyone with the schematics for the rotary Driving controller?

The Atari 2600 driving controller (4th diagram, Atari 2600 Accessories, top center) outputs gray code for a rotary encoder from a 16-position rotary switch.

Just tore apart a driving controller and confirmed that it is a 2-bit gray code that repeats four times per rotation.   

Blue and White = wire color in original controller

Black wire is the common/ground

X = continuity between that wire and ground, blank = open

If you break each rotation into 16 steps, the outputs are as follows:

      Blue    White
------------------ First quadrant
01
02                 X
03      X         X
04      X
------------------ Second quadrant
05      
06                 X
07      X         X
08      X   
------------------ Third quadrant
09      
10                 X
11      X         X
12      X   
------------------ Fourth quadrant
13      
14                 X
15      X         X
16      X   


Scott
EDIT: Added diagram.
Blue wire is connected to the contacts on the inner ring.
White wire is connected to the contacts on the outer ring.
Black wire (ground) is connected to the pivot arm.

Scott

Thanks.

Is there any reference regarding the wire colors and their corresponding pins in the D-SUB?

So it is a mechanical not optical rotary controller... So if there are any 16 position / 2-bit rotary encoders it should be pretty easy to build a controller... Or in the worst case put an arduino in between do get it right...

[PL1]

The Atari 2600 driving controller (4th diagram, Atari 2600 Accessories, top center) outputs gray code for a rotary encoder from a 16-position rotary switch.

Is there any reference regarding the wire colors and their corresponding pins in the D-SUB?

So it is a mechanical not optical rotary controller... So if there are any 16 position / 2-bit rotary encoders it should be pretty easy to build a controller... Or in the worst case put an arduino in between do get it right...

The white (pin 1 "W"), blue (pin 2 "B"), and black (pin 8 "BK") wire colors mentioned in the table are shown in the oval next to the pin in the driving controller link. (4th diagram, Atari 2600 Accessories, top center)

The Atari CX-20 driving controller uses a mechanical wiper arm in the gray square box, not an optical encoder wheel. (no 5v for LEDs)


Scott

[LordoftheMikMac]

Is there any games that would work better or be more accurate with a push/pull spinner?  The Discs of Tron arcade I've played (stand-up version), has the spinner and joystick.  I don't recall the spinner being a push/pull design.  Am I missing something with the push/pull spinner vs. a standard one?   

I bought the GRS one - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09DNYJB68/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[PL1]

Is there any games that would work better or be more accurate with a push/pull spinner?  The Discs of Tron arcade I've played (stand-up version), has the spinner and joystick.  I don't recall the spinner being a push/pull design.  Am I missing something with the push/pull spinner vs. a standard one?   

DOT had a push/pull spinner used for aiming up/down.
- It's explained on screen at 4:19-4:27 in this video and you see the blue aim line move up/down during each level after that.



You're not missing anything with a push/pull vs. a regular spinner.  The spinner part works the same.
- One potential downside to the one you chose is that the push and pull switches send mouse clicks that can cause context menu popups and other problems. 

A push/pull spinner was used in 4 5 games: Discs of Tron, Zwackery, Forgotten Worlds, Eco Fighters, and Kozmik Kroozr.

Here are some work-arounds for playing those games without a push/pull spinner.

Discs of Tron and Zwackery have an 8-way triggerstick with thumb button and a push/pull spinner. (stick + spinner + 4 buttons)
- The rocking foot pedal mentioned here is an easy substitute for the push/pull spinner in these games.

Forgotten Worlds has an 8-way stick and push-only spinner. (stick + spinner + 1 button)
- You can use an 8-way triggerstick and regular spinner for this game.

Eco Fighters allows you to use an 8-way and 3 buttons. (Change in the MAME "Machine Configuration" menu.)
- These were the default controls in MAME prior to v0.169 when the spinner option was added.

Kozmik Kroozr has an analog triggerstick and push-only spinner. (analog stick + spinner + 2 buttons)
- You can use an analog (or 8-way if you don't mind the loss of fine controls) triggerstick with thumb button and regular spinner for this game.


Scott
EDIT: Added Eco Fighters to list.  Thanks, Ken.   

[KenToad]

Eco Fighters, a pseudo sequel to Forgotten Worlds, is fantastic and also uses the same pushbutton spinner controls when you configure the dipswitches to analog controls.

I made myself a microswitch foot pedal setup rather than go through the hassle of a pushbutton spinner installation. I can use 2 pedals for up/down activation, but I don't like Discs of Tron enough to bother.

[leapinlew]

Eco Fighters, a pseudo sequel to Forgotten Worlds, is fantastic and also uses the same pushbutton spinner controls when you configure the dipswitches to analog controls.

Holy cow! Eco Fighters sure is similar to Forgotten Worlds! I never even heard of Eco Fighters. I loved Forgotten Worlds. It was a game I could beat with 1 continue, and I was getting real close to beating it on 1 credit. Is there any other games that use this same engine?

[PL1]

Eco Fighters, a pseudo sequel to Forgotten Worlds, is fantastic and also uses the same pushbutton spinner controls when you configure the dipswitches to analog controls.

Good catch, Ken.  Spinner option was added in MAME v0.169.   

From what I've seen, Capcom used an 8-way stick + 3-button (rotate CCW, fire, rotate CW) setup for the dedicated cab.

Apparently, the Forgotten-Worlds-style push spinner broke easily and was expensive to maintain.


Scott

[Mozalbete]

We had hoped to make several improvements to the overall design, but the options are limited for such a device without major investments in tooling

8-directional spinner stick

ancap.jpg

[PL1]

8-directional spinner stick

You mean like the (no longer produced) Happ Optical Rotary stick?



There's the U360 Rotary Joystick Upgrade, but the U360 isn't technically an 8-way stick.

If you wanted to make something like the Happ Optical but with higher resolution, you could:
- Start with a Happ Super stick. (same base as the Happ Optical)
- Use the shorter shaft cover (left one in this diagram) or do a shaft/handle replacement mod like this one and adjust the measurements to allow for the different actuator.

- Put a 10mm to 1/4" shaft coupler like this one on the bottom of the 10mm joystick shaft.  Align the top of the shaft coupler with the correct C-clip slot on the joystick shaft so the actuator is at the correct height.
- Connect a rotary encoder like this one to the 1/4" end of the shaft coupler.
- 3d print a mounting bracket for the rotary encoder like the loop arm in the top pic -- a fairly easy remix of the mounts in that rotary encoder thread.
- Mount a post on the side of the joystick body like the white one in the top pic -- would be easy to put a post on a band that fits around the body of the stick + a tab with a screw hole (#12 wood screw?) that lines up with one of the holes on the bottom of the stick that are used to mount the GGG SUPER 4-way™ Precision True Restrictor.   


Scott

[Mozalbete]

Truly everything has been invented already.

Time for the 8-directional trackball stick, I guess.

[PL1]

Truly everything has been invented already.

I thought you wanted to play one of the four games that used the Rotary Optical Joystick.
    Caliber .50
    Exterminator
    Touchdown Fever
    Touchdown Fever II


Scott