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Author Topic: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)  (Read 6641 times)

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Howard_Casto

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Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« on: February 02, 2016, 02:11:57 am »
No this isn't going to be an endlessly long project like Outrun Fxt. 

Badmouth wanted me to take a look at the Midway Arcade Treasures port of Hydro thunder.  The port isn't a super great one, but it's all we have atm aside from the dreamcast version.

Anyway.....

I managed to get the game to run in windowed mode via Dxwnd.  Also of note is the fact that Dxwnd will allow you to change the fullscreen resolution.... not that it renders anything higher, but it might be useful for oddball setups.  The issue with this game is two-fold.  First off no force-feedback (lame!) and secondly all controls are converted to digital.  I found the digitally converted inputs straight away and confirmed that, yes they are being converted to a simple 1, 0 and 2 for left, center and right respectively.  Analog triggers are also converted to digital buttons.  I also found a single byte address which seems to be broken force-feedback at first glance.  I can confirm that there is a call to HID_setOutputReportData, which is how you do rumble the hard way in some cases. 

So anyway the task at hand is to find out how big the data width is for the steering on the unmolested arcade game (probably a single byte), find where they are pumping a fake value (again, probably 0 for left and 255 for right) and instead send the joystick value.  I'll work on this tomorrow.  If things go smoothly I might do the other unemulated or hard to emulate games in the pack. 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 10:27:04 pm by Howard_Casto »

BadMouth

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 07:24:43 am »
The programmers must have been given zero time to work on MAT3.  I mean a collection of arcade driving games without analog input?!?!
(while MAT2 only had a few driving games, but supported analog input)
The mind boggles.




« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 10:28:21 am by BadMouth »

VirtuaIceMan

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 07:42:45 am »
Badmouth wanted me to take a look at the Midway Arcade Treasures port of Hydro thunder.  The port isn't a super great one, but it's all we have atm aside from the dreamcast version.

Incorrect; there are 2 versions on the PC; the Midway Arcade Treasures Deluxe Edition version, and the earlier version, sold under the Sold Out label, ported by Eurocom. The earlier version had worse sound, but less compressed textures and an extra track in the game! However it lacks split screen (I think MATDE has that?).

You can find the Eurocom version (they also ported Mortal Kombat 4 around the same time) here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=hydro+thunder&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xhydro+thunder+pc.TRS0&_nkw=hydro+thunder+pc&_sacat=0

BadMouth

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2016, 09:58:55 am »
Thanks.  I didn't know there was a PC version other than the one with MAT3.

The big plus with the MAT games for me is that they can be launched individually without the launcher menu.
By default, they will launch windowed, but if you add -f to the command line they launch fullscreen (albeit stretched on widescreens).
Easy peasy to add an individual game to the frontend on your cab.

They don't really have a PC game feel either.  No extra menus.  No superfluous controls.
They just have a flashing Press Start at the title screen.
I would have no problem including them in my front-end as if they are arcade games
...if the controls didn't suck so bad.


POOTERMAN

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2016, 12:25:06 pm »
The version of Hydro Thunder on Midway Arcade Treasures Deluxe Edition is just the emulated Dreamcast version.

Howard - If you need the original Eurocom version just msg me!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 12:42:04 pm by POOTERMAN »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2016, 01:50:41 pm »
The programmers must have been given zero time to work on MAT3.  I mean a collection of arcade driving games without analog input?!?!
(while MAT2 only had a few driving games, but supported analog input)
The mind boggles.

Well that's the thing that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  IMHO it would take more time to convert a game like this to use digital inputs than it would just to implement the game properly.  It was the end of Midway's run though.... they probably did good just to scrape enough resources together to release the thing. 

BadMouth

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 02:42:41 pm »
The programmers must have been given zero time to work on MAT3.  I mean a collection of arcade driving games without analog input?!?!
(while MAT2 only had a few driving games, but supported analog input)
The mind boggles.

Well that's the thing that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  IMHO it would take more time to convert a game like this to use digital inputs than it would just to implement the game properly.  It was the end of Midway's run though.... they probably did good just to scrape enough resources together to release the thing.

Not sure if it being released on a bunch of different platforms had anything to do with it, but I did notice references to xbox and ps2 while browsing the games with a hex editor.  Gamecube could have been in there abbreviated somehow and I just didn't pick up on it.

From what I've read online, the controls were much better on the gamecube version.
I assume that means actual analog control was working on the gamecube, but not any of the other ports.
The SF Rush games are just unplayable without analog control. 
Those games were specifically mentioned as being much more playable on the gamecube version.

I'm not a Nintendo fanboy, but maybe this is one of those cases of Nintendo holding 3rd party devs to a higher standard than other manufacturers.


Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2016, 02:56:58 pm »
It probably is.  Nintendo won't force you to make a good game, but they will force you to make a functional one, even if they have to step in and do the work themselves (according to stories about Iwata that people have been sharing since his passing). 

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2016, 03:39:18 am »
So I can't sleep and I spent about 20 min on this game again. 

I found the time left and time remaining addresses.  Why am I messing around with those instead of looking for the analog values?  Well the rounds in this game are super short and I need to be able to let the boat sit on the water while I mess with the values.  Now I can freeze the time, so that makes things a lot easier.  Also if I write a wrapper for this game I can add those as mamehooker outputs, so that's cool. 

MrThunderwing

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2016, 03:45:40 pm »
Oh man, colour me very interested in this hacking project. I LOVE Hydro Thunder. Playing it with FFB would be amazeballs.

Le Chuck

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2016, 04:20:01 pm »
I have the stand alone Hydro Thunder running and it's great, can't recall where I dug up that version tho.  It is different from the MAT version, sound is a bit worse but that doesn't bother me, it looks great and plays great, but I'm still really interested in this because if you can get Hydro working analog then you should be able to get Off Road Thunder working also since it's in the same game pack, and I desperately need that to have analog because it's the sucks digital.   

Any chance of giving ORT a peek after hydro?

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2016, 01:06:44 am »
Yeah they all basically use the same interface. 

If there is a version that runs better I'll look at it as well.  It might be simpler to combine the sound of the MAT with another port ect.

rvs0002

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2016, 12:13:00 pm »
Ahhhh, Hydro Thunder! My favorite game and the whole reason I built my driving cab.

I managed to track down a stand alone copy not long ago and it plays and sounds great to me. Also has feedback on the wheel. My son and I have been playing the sh!t out of it the last few nights thereby keeping me from doing anything of value to finish my cab.

Howard:
 if you need a copy to compare with what you are using PM me.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2016, 11:24:21 pm »
Yeah if there is a working copy I need to take a look at it.  I might be wasting my time.

VirtuaIceMan

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2016, 05:51:10 am »
I can rip the original Eurocom version CD, if you need it.

DarthMarino

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2016, 07:36:03 am »
From what I've read online, the controls were much better on the gamecube version.
I assume that means actual analog control was working on the gamecube, but not any of the other ports.
The SF Rush games are just unplayable without analog control. 
Those games were specifically mentioned as being much more playable on the gamecube version.

Rush: The Rock definitely plays better on the Gamecube version.  I still don't love the way it feels though. The physics are different from the original. Hopefully the arcade version gets proper emulation like the non-Rock version.

Hydro Thunder also works pretty well but as mentioned, it is really the Dreamcast version. 

Offroad Thunder works well though I get a small graphical error on some of the taillights. The PS2 version is almost perfect so that's what I've been using. The analog control feels great. I have no idea why they botched the control in Rush so much.

twistedsymphony

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2016, 08:40:25 am »
doesn't the original arcade version of Hydro Thunder run on a Windows PC? has this game ever been dumped for MAME? if so it might be worth seeing if assets and other pieces of the original arcade release can be used to make the MAT version whole... or just crack it to run on any Windows PC a-la TTX.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2016, 10:21:39 am »
Some of the suggestions mentioned (dreamcast version, ps2, ect) require a rather powerful pc to play, ditto for mame.  This is the very reason I worked on the pc version of outrun 2.... it doesn't matter if it ever gets emulated as next to no one will be able to play it.  At least right now anyway.

BadMouth

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2016, 10:42:28 am »
doesn't the original arcade version of Hydro Thunder run on a Windows PC? has this game ever been dumped for MAME? if so it might be worth seeing if assets and other pieces of the original arcade release can be used to make the MAT version whole... or just crack it to run on any Windows PC a-la TTX.

Wow.  You are correct.  Celeron processor and 3Dfx Voodoo2 video card running on a windows 95 variant.
(Offroad Thunder also)

I did not realize this.
Between this and not knowing about the PC version, I'm batting zero on this one.  :lol

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2016, 06:21:05 pm »
Ok then... project suspended for now.  It might be possible to run it right now via a glide wrapper.  The "security" at that time was that nobody had a pc powerful enough to run it.

bigster

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2016, 09:51:28 pm »
Wait are you making a wrapper for the arcade PC dump or just giving up on everything?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2016, 10:02:59 pm »
Well people keep telling me there is a fully working version out there.  I don't have it, but I certainly don't want to hack the game when I don't need to. 

BadMouth

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2016, 10:13:14 pm »
For fun I learned how to unpack the mame chd to take a look.
I've found nothing yet, but then again I have no idea what I am doing.
Tried to launch the exe under various compatibility settings back to 95, but all I get is "Hydro is not a valid win32 application"
(after using 7zip to explore the archive and dragging/dropping everything that's in the folder with the exe)

All I did was throw chdman from the latest mame build (.170) and the hydro chd into a folder along with this batch file.
Code: [Select]
chdman extracthd -i hydro.chd -o hydro.img
pause
The pause is just so I can see what the options are if it's not working.

I will track down the PC version and give it a try.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2016, 10:29:48 pm »
If it's from 95 it might run in DOS.  Maybe give dosbox a try?

BadMouth

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2016, 11:08:08 pm »
If it's from 95 it might run in DOS.  Maybe give dosbox a try?



When I looked at it with a hex editor earlier, I noticed it mentioned this TNT Kernel stuff at the beginning.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 11:11:20 pm by BadMouth »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2016, 01:26:59 am »
Interesting.  Maybe someone that speaks obscure OS can decipher what it is wanting.  It's been too long... I can barely get a sound blaster card working at this point.

BadMouth

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2016, 09:38:14 am »
Interesting.  Maybe someone that speaks obscure OS can decipher what it is wanting.  It's been too long... I can barely get a sound blaster card working at this point.



http://www.intervalzero.com/products/ets/]url=http://www.intervalzero.com/products/ets/]http://www.intervalzero.com/products/ets/

EDIT: This is probably wrong, it's more likely the ETS kernel from Phar Lap who made the TNT extender

If this is the correct thing, it sounds like something that could be used on an arcade setup.
However it does not sound like something you could get running inside windows short of emulating the hardware then installing it as the OS.

Shame I've tossed all my ancient pentium PCs or I might try recovering the MAME drive image to a hard drive and giving it a go.

EDIT: I understand that I'm just a dumb end user googling crap, but I find it interesting.
TNT was a "DOS extender" that allows core windows NT functions (drivers) to work on MS-DOS.
It seems some people are still messing around with this stuff on embedded chip projects.

Again, this could just be something else with the same name, but it sounds like something that would be useful in an arcade game at that time period.

DOUBLE EDIT:  It seems there were some dos games for home use that used TNT and they can work in dosbox.
Downloading Phar Lap's ETS Kernel User's Guide because I am a glutton for wasting time on things that are above my level.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 11:11:46 am by BadMouth »

twistedsymphony

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2016, 09:49:47 am »
Based on the DOS message it sounds like you'd launch the ETS "OS" from within DOS, similar to how Windows used to work back in win 3.1 days.

rvs0002

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2016, 10:35:19 am »
Howard:
Sent you a pm.

By the way (and completely off topic), if any of you are playing this game with a wheel and pedals, how in the world do you do a hydro jump????? I can't figure it out and I'm leaving too many turbo boosts left on the playing field!

DarthMarino

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2016, 11:04:43 am »
By the way (and completely off topic), if any of you are playing this game with a wheel and pedals, how in the world do you do a hydro jump????? I can't figure it out and I'm leaving too many turbo boosts left on the playing field!

Don't you just slam the brake and hit the turbo button?

rvs0002

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2016, 01:59:14 pm »
That's what i thought but doesn't seem to work. I'm sure there are afew hundred youtubes on it though; )

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2016, 03:37:55 pm »
Ok gentlemen... thanks for the links.... now I know wtf is going on.  ;)

The small 60mb version that many of you linked to seems to be the overall best version.  The differences between all the versions are very minimal (been switching back and forth) but I'll try to list the pros/cons.

Standalone PC:

Has crisper in-game textures.
Properly uses a 4:3 aspect (might be a con for some of you oddballs out there). 
Supports analog axes and rumble.
Hud appears crisper.

Game only supports X, Y and Z axis on the joystick... so if your wheel defaults to RX, RY and RZ for the pedals, you'll have to use the digital ones.
Menus use lower quality textures.
Translucency effects don't seem to be there.
No split-screen multiplayer (irrelevant on a racing cab). 
Some slight differences make me think it might be running on a slightly different engine than the arcade and DC versions.

I think overall this is the version to use.  I could still enhance it though when I take a notion.


What about the other games in the MAT collections?  I don't want to work on ones that already have a good pc port. 

p.s.  To jump you release the gas, hold the brake and press the turbo button while holding.  Or at least that's what worked for me. 


Badmouth: 

Could we start a list of pc ports along with the best version to use?  I know we can't link to them, but we could list the overall image/archive size and some of the files in the archive so people know if they are using the correct version.  I've found this ordeal enlightening as to why some people say "port X" is horrible while others say it's great.  They might be talking about completely different ports.

DarthMarino

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2016, 03:50:50 pm »
I know there that weird version of Rush: The Rock for PC that included a video card.  Supposedly this is much closer to the arcade compared to the Midway Arcade Treasures 3 version. 

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2016, 03:57:26 pm »
Yeah that was the voodoo cards if I remember correctly.  Glide wrappers are pretty good these days, so it shouldn't be a problem to get it running.

BadMouth

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2016, 04:02:47 pm »
Well, the games in MAT2 supported analog controls just fine.

For MAT3:

Badlands - playable in MAME

Offroad Thunder - Not Playable in MAME.  No PC port.

Race Drivin' - Playable in MAME, Hard Drivin in MAT2 might be worth having to some people for the sake of simplified controls over the arcade version

San Francisco Rush the Rock: Alcatraz Edition - There is a rare PC version that was only released as a pack in with a video card.  It can work with a glidewrapper
It requires you to press certain buttons after the race has started to activate analog and wheel control.  The ffb just shakes the whole time.
It can look pretty close to the arcade version with the right glidewrapper settings.  One website said the MAT version was rebuilt completely and plays differently.
I don't know how they could tell with the controls being so bad.  EDIT:  It also requires you to have a disc image mounted to play the music.

S.T.U.N. Runner - playable in MAME

Super Off Road (including its upgrade/add-on pack, Super Off Road Track Pack) - Playable in MAME

Hydro Thunder (console port) - PC version available.  I've been watching youtube videos of the real arcade version.  Man it looks nicer.

San Francisco Rush 2049 (console port) - I do not think there is a standalone PC version.  This is supposed to be a port of the dreamcast version, but I read some comments by people saying that it doesn't have the option to sprout wings.  I haven't played it recently enough to remember.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 04:05:15 pm by BadMouth »

BadMouth

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2016, 04:09:22 pm »
I never picked up on it before, but they no longer had the licensing for Ivan Ironman Stewart, so they just gave him sunglasses and a mustache.  :lol

« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 04:11:14 pm by BadMouth »

DarthMarino

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2016, 04:26:54 pm »
San Francisco Rush 2049 (console port) - I do not think there is a standalone PC version.  This is supposed to be a port of the dreamcast version, but I read some comments by people saying that it doesn't have the option to sprout wings.  I haven't played it recently enough to remember.


The original arcade version didn't have the wings thing.  That's what was added for the console ports which generated some complaints.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2016, 04:29:53 pm »
I never picked up on it before, but they no longer had the licensing for Ivan Ironman Stewart, so they just gave him sunglasses and a mustache.  :lol



Heh... reminds me of Daytona 2...

They wanted Dale Earnhardt in the game but they couldn't acquire the rights... so they just added him anyway in a pink fire suit.  All the racers are him actually.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2016, 04:38:57 pm »
Badmouth: 

Could we start a list of pc ports along with the best version to use?  I know we can't link to them, but we could list the overall image/archive size and some of the files in the archive so people know if they are using the correct version.  I've found this ordeal enlightening as to why some people say "port X" is horrible while others say it's great.  They might be talking about completely different ports.

I'm not sure how far to take that.  I set the PC versions of Daytona USA and Sega Rally up never to play them again.
IIRC, there's an extra track, but not much else reason to play them when the arcade version is emulated so well.

I was thinking more along the lines of making a "most wanted" thread.
"What unemulated arcade racing game is your most wanted?"
...and then try to find the best current option.

Originally I thought the file size might be enough of a hint to violate the rules.
We have no problem with listing the file size or list of the contents of roms though, so maybe?


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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2016, 05:28:20 pm »
Loosely related:

"From the developers of Hydro Thunder Hurricane"

Riptide GP2 currently available for $1.39 on Steam
http://store.steampowered.com/app/257790/

Requires at least DirectX10, so if you have XP you are out of luck.

Looks good.  I'm buying it!  ;D


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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2016, 06:39:42 pm »
Originally I thought the file size might be enough of a hint to violate the rules.
We have no problem with listing the file size or list of the contents of roms though, so maybe?
I wouldn't throw a Rule 5 flag on a post that contained info like the following:
- Game title
- Company /author
- Year released
- Operating system
- Controls
- Installed executable filename (i.e. "Daytona.exe" NOT "Cornholio's_Daytona_Pack.rar" NOT a self-extracting executable NOT an .ISO)
- Executable filesize (installed/uncompressed)

If the info posted describes the game, no problem.   ;D

If the info posted describes how/where to find a copy for download, that gets into Rule 5 territory.   :police:


Scott
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 08:39:09 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2016, 06:42:02 pm »
Originally I thought the file size might be enough of a hint to violate the rules.
We have no problem with listing the file size or list of the contents of roms though, so maybe?
I wouldn't throw a Rule 5 flag on a post that contained info like the following:
- Game title
- Company /author
- Year released
- Operating system
- Controls
- Filesize

If the info posted describes the game, no problem.   ;D

If the info posted describes how/where to find a copy for download, that gets into Rule 5 territory.   :police:


Scott

File name other than the game title?  :angel:


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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2016, 06:46:35 pm »
File name other than the game title?  :angel:
I knew I was forgetting something.   :embarassed:

Describes the game, doesn't hint where to get it.

Added.


Scott
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 06:49:42 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2016, 07:52:21 pm »
File name other than the game title?  :angel:
I knew I was forgetting something.   :embarassed:

Describes the game, doesn't hint where to get it.

Added.


Scott

Honestly I would draw the line at the file size.
Giving the file name of the bootleg compressed file is a huge hint IMO.
...but if management is ok with it.  :)

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2016, 08:29:20 pm »
Honestly I would draw the line at the file size.
Giving the file name of the bootleg compressed file is a huge hint IMO.
...but if management is ok with it.  :)
I agree that a filename of a compressed bootleg pack or self-extracting executable would be a huge hint, but the name of the installed executable file should be fine.

Clarified.
- Installed executable filename (i.e. "Daytona.exe" NOT "Cornholio's_Daytona_Pack.rar" NOT a self-extracting executable NOT an .ISO)
- Executable filesize (installed/uncompressed)


Scott
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 08:39:30 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2016, 09:56:55 pm »
By the way (and completely off topic), if any of you are playing this game with a wheel and pedals, how in the world do you do a hydro jump????? I can't figure it out and I'm leaving too many turbo boosts left on the playing field!

I played some this evening with an xbox controller.
Accell and Brake were just mapped to buttons.

I found that I had to keep Accell down also.
I'd already be on the gas and boost buttons, then hit the brake button and it would jump.
Not sure how that works on a combined axis.

Whatever version I have, the sound crapped out on the medium courses.
The music and some sound effects were there, but the engine noise was gone.

EDIT:  If you're using a logitech wheel, you can have profiler post a button press for the brake pedal instead of an axis.
I don't think the game relies heavily on having an analog brake pedal.  :lol
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 10:03:21 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2016, 10:30:08 pm »
Damn that looks pretty good.  It's got a wave racey vibe too.  Now that Nintendo is finally making games in 1080p it's a crime against humanity we don't have another wave race game. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2016, 10:48:23 pm »
Damn that looks pretty good.  It's got a wave racey vibe too.  Now that Nintendo is finally making games in 1080p it's a crime against humanity we don't have another wave race game.

I played it a lot this evening.  It's fun (well worth $1.39!), but I do have some gripes about it. 
The usual "newer games suck" stuff.
Everything is about acquiring skill points and money to improve your jetski.
It's 90% that and only 10% actually learning the track and getting smarter about your lines.
I was stuck on a level and repeatedly came in 2nd every time.
Then I noticed that everyone but the guy who came in 1st had the same jetski as me.
He had the next level up.
Sure enough, as soon as I won enough money and spent it on the next performance upgrade.....first place!
Also, you don't learn how to do new tricks by learning anything.  You "buy" new tricks with skill points.  ::)

Both analog sticks are required to do tricks, which is how you get boost.
So I don't think it will work with a steering wheel setup.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 10:50:25 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2016, 11:00:24 pm »
Buying riptide!

Looks like it will be another week before the cabinet is done because I keep playing games!

Thanks for the heads up!

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2016, 11:12:25 pm »
Damn that looks pretty good.  It's got a wave racey vibe too.  Now that Nintendo is finally making games in 1080p it's a crime against humanity we don't have another wave race game.

I played it a lot this evening.  It's fun (well worth $1.39!), but I do have some gripes about it. 
The usual "newer games suck" stuff.
Everything is about acquiring skill points and money to improve your jetski.
It's 90% that and only 10% actually learning the track and getting smarter about your lines.
I was stuck on a level and repeatedly came in 2nd every time.
Then I noticed that everyone but the guy who came in 1st had the same jetski as me.
He had the next level up.
Sure enough, as soon as I won enough money and spent it on the next performance upgrade.....first place!
Also, you don't learn how to do new tricks by learning anything.  You "buy" new tricks with skill points.  ::)

Both analog sticks are required to do tricks, which is how you get boost.
So I don't think it will work with a steering wheel setup.

That's the "Mario Kart 8" gameplay model and I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon.  The only thing is, it works much better for MKart8 because it's also a battle game, so a slow cart can still potentially win a race.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2016, 11:15:26 pm »
Quote

Both analog sticks are required to do tricks, which is how you get boost.
So I don't think it will work with a steering wheel setup.

Good thing I just saw this.  I think I'll skip it and keep working.  My cabinet thanks you.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2016, 01:22:33 pm »
Both analog sticks are required to do tricks, which is how you get boost.
So I don't think it will work with a steering wheel setup.

It will work with my yoke+ ;)  Thanks, gonna try it out

@Howard - I concur with BM, Off Road Thunder analog is desperately needed. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2016, 10:28:59 pm »
Ok.... Offroad thunder it is.  (This one is surprisingly fun btw.). 

So I did a cheat engine search on the game and found the time left and speedo values.  I'll look for the steering later tonight.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2016, 01:30:27 am »
Ok, that was surprisingly easy.  I found the analog value for the wheel, blocked it, and confirmed that I could adjust it manually in an analog fashion. 

Is there anyone out there that's good at assembly hacking?  The reason I ask is that while I can certainly write a wrapper for the game the change that needs to be made is so small that an exe patch might be better. 

Here's what's going on:

The game reads the controllers via HID interface, which is nice because all the values will be the same.  The X axis is 0 (full left) to around 65,000 (full right) or read as a float 0 to 10.  Now the game does all sorts of nonsense to this value which I'm largely ignoring as it isn't important.  Eventually it converts it to one of three values.... -2.0 (full left), 0 (centered), or 2.0 (full right).  So yeah it makes zero sense... they took a game expecting a float of -2 to 2, an analog, float value and fed it one of 3 digital values even though they read a gamepad to get an analog, float value.

Anyway....

All that needs done is the joystick x axis, which I have the address to, needs to be multiplied by .4 to get the 4 integer resolution, subtract 2, to put the left values in the negative range, and store it in the game engines steering value, which I also have the address to.  So three lines of assembly and it's fixed.  Unfortunately code caves and assembly aren't my field of expertise.... reading it and writing it are two different things. 

So if anyone can help me out let me know.  Otherwise I can write a wrapper fairly easily.  I'll go ahead and get the view value and the rpm so those can be fed to mamehooker as well.  Did offroad thunder have force feedback?

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2016, 02:50:25 am »
So I found all the pertinent outputs... speed, rpm, nitro, view ect.....

The original game had three view buttons correct? 

I'm going to try and part those out tomorrow like I did Outrun 2k6 and find something that can be used for FF. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2016, 03:04:42 am »
I'm going to try and part those out tomorrow like I did Outrun 2k6 and find something that can be used for FF.
... or for a simple xinput rumble :D

May I ask what the minimum specs are for this game?

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2016, 07:30:54 am »
I'm going to try and part those out tomorrow like I did Outrun 2k6 and find something that can be used for FF.
... or for a simple xinput rumble :D

May I ask what the minimum specs are for this game?

You may, but you really don't even need to.  :lol

From the Midway Arcade Treasures Deluxe Box:
Windows 2000 or XP
1.4Ghz Pentium 3
AMD Sempron 2220+
256MB RAM
DirectX9 video card with 32MB of RAM

EDIT:
This is one of the big reasons I'd like to see the controls on this or the other version of Rush The Rock working.
SF Rush works fine in MAME, but takes a pretty good PC to run at full speed.
Same goes for running Rush2049 on a Dreamcast emulator.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 07:43:30 am by BadMouth »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2016, 07:33:12 am »
:D
Thanks, good to know I am still in specs (glorious P4 3GHz).

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2016, 07:46:50 am »
Yeah I'm no help on the writing but that's great news!  Thanks!!!

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2016, 08:17:05 am »
So I found all the pertinent outputs... speed, rpm, nitro, view ect.....

The original game had three view buttons correct? 

I'm going to try and part those out tomorrow like I did Outrun 2k6 and find something that can be used for FF.

don't have much time, so just posting the pics of what's there.
Standard Happ Active Driving setup used in all midway stuff.
Calibration in the service menu goes 0-240

EDIT:  You don't need to try to turn it into the arcade version.  Most of us will be overjoyed just to have analog control so we can add the game to our cabs.
FFB would be a huge bonus.  Of course if that's the type of thing you enjoy working on, have at it.  :)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 09:13:45 am by BadMouth »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2016, 09:18:42 am »
As usual thanks for the info... it saves me a lot of time. 

I'm not as familiar with the late era midway stuff....  WTF is a hoop cam?

Btw I may only have a resolution of -2 to 2 for the wheel, but it's a float, so the actual resolution is infinitely larger than that because I can do fractions. 

Should I perhaps de-res the joystick value to one byte (0-255) prior to conversion to keep the arcade resolution in tact?

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2016, 09:31:18 am »
Hey I haven't tried this on the racing cab yet, but did this game already have force feedback?  I fired up the hex editor for the exe and there are around 30 clearly labeled force-feedback constants in the game... almost as if there was going to be an adjustment menu.  It all seems to eventually be merged into "FFB" and "FFB 2" along with some other clearly labeled outputs like the speedo and shock force.

I'll work on it tonight like I did last night, but it looks like there are already values I can use in the game and, if you don't mind me writing to the exe, I can probably make a cfg menu for all of those FFB constants as well. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2016, 10:01:17 am »
I'm not as familiar with the late era midway stuff....  WTF is a hoop cam?

Hoop CAP.
Those crazy folks at Happ call a steering wheel a hoop and a center cap a hoop cap.  :P
It does nothing but cover the bolts that hold the wheel onto the adapter.

It's been so long since I tried the MAT3 version on my cab that I can't guarantee it didn't have force feedback, but I'm 99% sure it didn't.
I'm sure I would have remembered a game that had ffb, but didn't have analog control!
This game ran on the same PC as hydro thunder, which we've learned ran on an embedded OS with TNT extenders that allowed windows drivers and commands to work on it.
Maybe they were able to start out with the original code from the arcade game and then modify it to run on a home PC.
Or maybe they started out planning to have it as a feature, then the bigwigs at Midway said "hey we're running out of money, this thing needs to ship today!"

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2016, 10:07:38 am »
I wouldn't  bother with the 0-255 stuff unless it becomes evident that this PC version contains huge chunks of the actual arcade game code and it's already in there somewhere and just being worked around.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2016, 12:45:55 pm »
Well this is decidedly 2000-ish windows force feedback.  There's even a "vibration.ffe" effect file in the common folder for MAT 3.  It looks to me like the game shipped unfinished.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2016, 12:48:39 pm »
EDIT:
This is one of the big reasons I'd like to see the controls on this or the other version of Rush The Rock working.
SF Rush works fine in MAME, but takes a pretty good PC to run at full speed.
Same goes for running Rush2049 on a Dreamcast emulator.

Another alternative for Rush 2049 is to try the Gamecube version of Midway Arcade Treasures 3 in Dolphin Emulator. I was never able to get Rush 2049 to work on DEMUL, although I believe other DC emus could play it OK, but it worked on Dolphin fine for me (although I think some revisions of the emulator do have problems with it hanging before start-up). Although the Gamecube was a more recent system, I think Dolphin is slightly better optimised when it comes to running games, as I've found I can get away with turning more of the graphical quality settings up in it than I can in DEMUL, so if your PC's struggling with DEMUL Dolphin might be worth a shot.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2016, 01:50:15 pm »
Well it's essentially the same version as this one, only the required system specs are much lower.  I'm fairly confident I can get FF working.... it appears to be in offroad thunder at least, only not hooked up.  My guess is the others are the same. 

The hacking is going at a blinding speed.  I decided to look at it another 10 minutes and managed to get the gas and brake analog values as well as determining the method to re-institute the dedicated shifter.  Turns out it's simple like in Outrun 2k6, you just write the gear number you want.  So I need to part out the views and find the FF data, which seems to be in there and pre-normalized from the other data I've been finding... it's merely a matter of hooking it up. 

Keep in mind I've already written the program.... Outrun FXT.... I'm manipulating the same stuff....  so once I'm satisfied with the data collection I just modify the fxt wrapper, do a few cosmetic changes and it's ready to go. 

Since it's not nearly as much work, I don't mind doing this for the other games as well pending that I can spread it out over time of course. 

If any of you have some spare time to kill something that would be helpful for the mamehooker end of things would be some video of the cabinet in attract mode.  I know it has a digital speedo and led tacho, but I'm not particularly familiar with the blink patterns of the view, start, nitro and race leader buttons.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2016, 02:07:48 pm »
The Dreamcast version of Rush 2049 ran fine on my cab using a NullDC build from 5-6 years ago.
I'm mostly just looking out for those with lower spec PCs.

I say mostly because the MAT3 versions are easier to integrate into a front-end as a standalone game.
All the games in MAT2 & 3 can be launched individually using their separate exes.  Just ad -f to the command line for fullscreen.

I set my front-ends up to launch all arcade games from one list regardless of emulator.
I'll slip these in the arcade list as if they were the arcade version and nobody will pick up on it. 
It just says "press start" as if it's on freeplay.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 02:09:34 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2016, 02:21:07 pm »
Well I found the force feedback values... I think.  It looks oddly sega except instead of using bits they are using bytes (typical late midway wastefulness).  The first two bytes are the type of effect and intensity of the effect, the third is the direction (looks like 42 for left and 43 for right) and the forth is on/off. 

Don't expect miracles though.... these values look a little chunky.  They'll make my 2k6 hackjob look smooth by comparison. 

Oh and in regards to the "press enter to continue" prompt upon startup.....

All the text is in the exe, so a quick edit can get rid of that and all the menus for MAT are external.  So we can blank them out and simulate a enter press or something.  The animated background is actually individual textures, so a simulated startup screen could be done as well. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2016, 03:04:35 pm »
Can't say I invested much time in ensuring this is the best one, but here is a video of some of the lamps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE91Etna6So


Judging by the one on the left, nothing is going on during attract mode.

EDIT: There is a little bit, but only during a specific part: see avi file here: http://arcadius.esero.net/Arcade/Cabinets/MIDWAY_OffRoad_Thunder_A/

First coin in - tach and speedo light up
Total amount to play entered - delay, then start button lights up when start screen appears
View buttons - active view button is illuminated

Nitro -  The only lamp I see in the instructions is the one inside the nitro button.  Not exactly sure how it behaves.  I would guess it's illuminated when you have nitro available and goes out when you run out.  A video of hydro thunder had it flashing rapidly before the race starts.

Race Leader Upper/lower - would be self explanatory if not for the separate upper and lower.  I am not seeing anything in the manual about a Race Leader panel.  I also don't see it in any pics.


Honestly I'm not all that worried about making things blink properly.   :lol

EDIT: OK, the Race Leader light was located in a topper used on linked setups.  The offroad Thunder one was rare and I could only find a picture of a thumbnail of it.
Hydro thunder also attached so you get the idea.  Upper/Lower could be the part that says Race Leader and then the number.  Number being illuminated if participating...maybe.
I will look for a manual for the topper.

IIRC, the movie theater I'm going to this weekend (to see Deadpool) has some game with that blue hydro thunder seat.
I think it's hydro thunder, but not 100% sure.  If it is, I'll get video of the behavior of the lights.

It was Rush 2049.  If need be, I will go back and record some video when and if you take on that one.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 09:02:20 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2016, 10:18:27 pm »
Thanks for the links, as usual.

Yeah I'm not super concerned about accuracy, but if you are going to do something you might as well do it right.
Besides.... blinkly lights are fun, I have to justify putting them on.  Shoot I'm thinking of doing a light bar just for the cop games.  ;)

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2016, 04:53:44 am »
I could sleep this morning so I thought I'd go ahead and fix the view..... damn... it's a tough nut to crack!

I can find the view just fine, but thus far I've hit a dead end trying to change it.  I've got to be missing something.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2016, 01:38:08 am »
Alright.  I figured out the view finally.  Man Midway did things weird sometimes. 

I was messing around with it some more and I'm wondering if I should hack the menus as well.  Start doesn't start anything and the secret code inputs, which have been moved from the vr buttons (as now there is only one) are nearly impossible to input. You press up on the joystick to select mirrored courses as well.   

Opinions?

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2016, 02:01:49 am »
As far as it's good for you, it is for me too ;)

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2016, 06:13:05 am »
Alright.  I figured out the view finally.  Man Midway did things weird sometimes. 

I was messing around with it some more and I'm wondering if I should hack the menus as well.  Start doesn't start anything and the secret code inputs, which have been moved from the vr buttons (as now there is only one) are nearly impossible to input. You press up on the joystick to select mirrored courses as well.   

Opinions?
All I'm really worried about is analog steering.  Changing "press enter" to "press start" would be a bonus.  Ffb would be crazy awesome.
...but I'd be happy with analog steering.

If the secret codes can be input via keyboard controls, then we could do something in autohotkey if easier.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #75 on: February 13, 2016, 01:34:59 pm »
Well it's one of those deals where it's so screwed up that I'm not sure how to tackle it. 

In the arcade obviously start gets you through all the menus.  While in the menus the three colored circles for various settings represent the three view buttons.... you use them to activate any of the options and if you bring up the secret code menu, you press the view buttons to enter it.... they represent the numbers 1-3. 

In this port start doesn't really do anything other than get you off the title screen.  The view button acts as start and the nitro button of all things acts as back.  While in the selection menu pressing the actual start button brings up the secret code prompt.  After it's up, the pause button (yes there is a pause button AND a start button) types a 1, up on the d-pad types a 2 and pressing start again gives you a 3. 

Oh and even though all the menus clearly show that you should be able to press the gas pedal to select stuff.... it doesn't do anything in the menus. 

To make matters even worse, you can't remap the start or pause buttons in any of the MAT games. 

So yeah... how do I sort out this cluster****?

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #76 on: February 13, 2016, 02:09:21 pm »
is there a way to determine what screen you're on and based on that map whatever control the original arcade game used to whatever the MAT version expects?

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2016, 02:20:57 pm »
Maybe.... much like 2k6 and most arcade 2 pc ports, the menu is original to the pc and uses it's own set of values while the actual in-game action uses another. 

I can most likely get start to work again by editing some code, but I'm unsure about how to do the view buttons.  I can certainly get the button they've given us to act as vr 1, but the other two I'm making don't exist as far as the game is concerned, so I don't know the best way to get them to control the other two functions.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2016, 04:20:43 pm »
It doesn't have to work exactly like the arcade.

I wasn't even aware the secret menu was there.  If a keyboard key does the same thing as up on the d-pad, then there is something we can use for a workaround.  I'll mess around with it later tonight and see how it works.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2016, 06:07:07 pm »
Well that's the thing.  After playing with it some more, the menu is hard-coded.  Even stranger is the fact that some functions do NOT have a keyboard binding.  Joystick button 10 brings up the secret menu for example and button 9 pauses.  Button 2 on the gamepad is the "ok" or enter button and button 3 is always back/cancel.  Oddly enough the one mapped to up seems to work.  It's auto-mapped to any useable "up" axis or hat on the gamepad.
The keyboard start and pause control the MAT pop-up menu, so they don't work. 

So to fix it the menu code would have to be scrapped completely and the wrapper would have to take assigned buttons and translate them to the hardcoded joystick inputs and pass them along.

So all that complaining about MK9 having hardcoded keyboard inputs.... they've been doing this crap since the midway days. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2016, 06:24:38 pm »
Ok disregard what I just typed in regards to the info.... this is so convoluted I'm confusing myself.  Long story short start and pause are mapped to joystick buttons 8 and 7 respectively.

*edit*  (Modified since I found more)

The address of "pcoffroad.exe+7A0549" holds the button data in two bytes.  Why 2 bytes when the data can fit in one and every game I've ever seen only uses one byte?  Because Midway.  ;) The analog stuff is in the byte before.

here is the mapping:


Analog:
x- = 4
x+ = 8
y- = 1
y+ = 2
z- = 16
z+ = 32

Digital:
up= 1
down= 2
left= 4
right= 8
button 1 = 128
button 2 = 256
button 3 = 64
button 4 = 512
button 5 = 2048
button 6 = 8192
button 7 = 1024
button 8 = 4096
button 9 = 16384
button 10 = 32768
As you can see it makes no logical sense what-so-ever.  Typically button 1 would be "1", two would be "2" and they'd go up by a power of 2 each time (button 3 is "4" button 4 is "8" ect).

But anyway that's what I've got to work on. 

The easiest way is probably to NOP the code that passes the data into that variable and set it myself. 

*edit*

I blocked the code that writes to these and sure enough I can control them.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 06:41:41 pm by Howard_Casto »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2016, 07:14:19 pm »
So blocking it blocks the inputs in the race as well.  Incidentally it's the same byte I have to write to when controlling the vr buttons.  I don't have to block anything on that though... I just write to the viewport byte the view I want, then send a "1"  to simulate the view button press. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2016, 09:00:55 pm »
Since this game uses Backspace for back, I thought I'd start with the oddball keys newer games never use.

The UP arrow reverses the track.

the END key opens the box to enter the secret code (haven't tried entering anything yet)
Entered a few random things and they worked.

While the secret code box is open:

HOME enters 1
UP Arrow enters 2
END enters 3

This basically means those are your view buttons while in the track and truck selection screens.

for the sake of clarity......



While in the track or truck selection menu:

HOME=red view button 1 (Slam Cam)
UP ARROW=orange view button 2 (Crash Cam)
END=yellow view button 3 (Chopper Cam)
While in a race, these do nothing and have been replaced with C=change view.



Default In-Game Controls (can be remapped):

Start = Enter
Pause = Esc
Steering = Left & Right arrows
Gas = Left ALT
Brake = Down Arrow
Nitro = Spacebar
Shift Up = Left Shift
Shift Down = Left CTRL
Change View = C
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 09:57:00 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #83 on: February 13, 2016, 09:31:35 pm »
Here is what I'm thinking:

Home, up arrow, & END aren't used in-race.  Pressing them has no effect and won't screw anything up.
So if you could use those keys to force the views while in game(instead of having a single change view button),
Then they would behave as expected in both the menu and the race.

Sorry if I missed how it worked on the original arcade, but I'd be fine with pressing the yellow view button (chopper cam) to enter the secret code
and pressing the orange view button (crash cam) to reverse the track.
Entering the secret codes would correspond to the correctly colored/numbered buttons on screen.

People without an H-shifter may prefer to keep the shift up/shift down method.

EDIT: from mame history.dat
Quote
- TIPS AND TRICKS -


* Codes : Before picking a truck or a track, press the Yellow Button. This will bring up the Cheat Screen. Use the camera view buttons to enter the codes. NOTE : The Truck Codes can only be entered at the Truck Selection Screen.

Chieftan Truck : Red, Red, Red

Dust Devil Car : Red, Orange, Yellow

Hyena Truck : Yellow, Yellow, Yellow

Wild Car Truck : Orange, Orange, Orange

No Drones : Red, Orange, Red

No Nitros : Orange, Red, Orange

No Catch-Ups : Yellow, Red, Yellow

Cliffhanger Track : Yellow, Orange, Red


Sounds like the right button to enter the cheat code anyway...

« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 10:01:52 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2016, 11:15:58 pm »
Well it would be 3 of 6 keys I didn't try when testing. 

I agree, vr3 makes more sense than start. 

I'm less worried about the view and more the other buttons, particularly start, pause, ok and cancel.  I'm going to have to play with it a little more and see if the game can tolerate simulated keypresses.  I mean for most of us we could just fire up the Logitech profiler or equivalent and map some buttons to the needed keys. 

I don't foresee having to mess with the arrows either.  I can't imagine a setup where the wheel isn't mapped to x AND there isn't a hat switch on the gamepad/wheel AND there aren't already buttons mapped to arrow keys somewhere. 

The shifter thing is going to be a non-issue.  I don't have to block anything... I can just write to the shift position.. so the original shifter and optional h-shifter buttons can co-exist. 

Thanks for the heads up.  I most likely won't have to block the menus now, which makes things a lot easier.   
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 11:50:58 pm by Howard_Casto »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2016, 12:00:21 am »
Yeah so I tested and the game takes to simulated key presses quite well. In my test I monitored the "1" key and pressed Enter whenever it was pressed.  Worked just great.  If your start button is already mapped to enter, then you are still good to go. 

I agree with your assessment... considering how odd the keys in question are, I don't really see any need to block them.  Enter, Backspace, Escape, Home and End aren't going to be used as gameplay keys on any person's cab.  While up might I don't exactly see a problem with accidentally selecting a mirror map in the menus. 

As for the hardcoding on the joystick.... ehh... I don't know.  I might have to block that considering buttons 2 and 3 are probably used on most people's wheels. 

Can't the profilers remap a button's position though?  Like remap button 1 to show up as button 9 or what have you?  Mapping around the problem buttons might be another solution.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #86 on: February 16, 2016, 11:15:14 am »
profilers remap a button's position though?  Like remap button 1 to show up as button 9 or what have you?  Mapping around the problem buttons might be another solution.

Yeah, profiler can reassign anything to anything except for the clutch pedal.
It will work for people with Logitech wheels anyway, which are the majority.

Would it be possible to block the game from recognizing the buttons while still allowing a program like joy2key or autohotkey to recognize it and post the keys?

Out of curiosity, have you played the game with analog steering yet?

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #87 on: February 16, 2016, 12:36:11 pm »
Yes, but it's an all or nothing deal.  If I block buttons I also block analog axis.  Mind you I probably need to do that anyway to get an analog brake and gas.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #88 on: February 16, 2016, 01:43:27 pm »
No I haven't played it yet.  I'll be using the Outrun FXT wrapper, so what I'm doing right now is looking for bugs so when I copy it to a new folder I don't have to maintain two builds separately. 

What I did was let the car sit on the road and gradually increased the value and made the wheels turn. Then I tried it with a few values (locked in place) to make sure it was indeed turning gradually instead of off/on like it is now. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2016, 02:04:29 am »
I guess I should be working on this huh.....  Currently setting up games on my rig, one at a time.  I have a new version of Outrun FXT ready, so I'll release that first and then modify it for this. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #90 on: March 01, 2016, 07:57:13 pm »
So.   Hydro Thunder is off the table now because somewhere out there lurks a rare PC version that kind of works? I gave up on the idea of running it via MAME because 5 years ago everyone said it wasn't possible to get Hydro Thunder with force feedback working on a MAME unit.



I haven't posted on these forums in a long time but my two favorite games were Hydro Thunder and SFRush, its the reason i converted a busted SFRush cab into a sit down Xbox360 Cab.  All i had to do was hack apart an Xbox360 force feedback wheel and fit it into the SFRush wheel case. After that i just changed the POTS on the arcade unit to ones with the same voltage that the xbox360 gas and brake pedal use.  It was the best way that i could figgure to be able to play Hydro Thunder Hurricane, Outrun2006, Daytona and any other race game on 360, many of the games with force feedback. I ended up converting a side by side Final Lap into the same sort of thing but 2 player.

Once Xbox360 Arcade went down in support of the new XboxOne i can no longer access Hydro Thunder Hurricane (great game btw) and as such i havent played my arcade unit very much at all this last year.  I hear that the game is available on Xbox1 now but the xbox360 steering wheel is NOT compatible with an xbox1.  I find myself considering ripping out the Xbox controls and going the route of MAME on pc now.

I would love to be able to play Offroad Thunder and Hydro Thunder with FFB in the same arcade unit, not to mention OutRun,F-zero,MKart etc.    I think its amazing the work you guys are putting into this topic. Really something special. I will continue to lurk around the forums and see if i can bring myself to learn all the new stuff you guys are referencing.

sorry for the off topic, i've just been reading a lot in these Race Cab forums over the past few days and the same names keep popping up and i figured a KUDOS was in order

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #91 on: March 01, 2016, 10:42:53 pm »
It isn't off the table, it's just of a lower priority.  I have a tendency to follow the rabbit down the rabbit hole  way to far on projects like these, so I've learned to pace myself.  Realistically it shouldn't be terribly hard to support hydro thunder as well, but that's if time allows. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #92 on: May 31, 2016, 04:03:35 pm »
 :bump

Just keeping this on the radar.  >:D

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #93 on: May 31, 2016, 04:24:30 pm »
Yeah.  Currently the controls to my rig are in a rat's nest of wires in the floor.  Since it'll be difficult to wire up, I'm waiting until I can install everything permanently.  I've stained the dash panel and I still have to cut some recesses in the back for the dot-matrix display.  Then I can re-assemble the dash, at least, and I'll be able to test stuff. I really need to update my status on that... things are in the home stretch.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2016, 05:20:48 pm »
I was just thinking that analog inputs to an Audrino or AVR could be used to do PWM style keyboard inputs to those digital input PC games. I guess it would depend on the input latency of the software and hardware, but I would love to put SFRush in my Pentium 4 driving cabinet if it wasn't for the digital inputs.
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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #95 on: October 31, 2016, 07:47:01 am »
Bump for some ORT Analog luv!!!

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #96 on: October 31, 2016, 01:07:04 pm »
I need to fix the ff issue in 2k6 first.  I'm just going to copy over the fxt wrapper and make changes, so it doesn't make much sense to work on this until I get this last bug sorted out. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #97 on: November 02, 2016, 09:10:43 am »
Just going back to Hydro Thunder for a sec; the standalone Eurocom version works fine via dgVoodoo's DirectX dlls, meaning you can run it in HD resolutions (1440x1080 for example). It looks awesome!

The MAT3 versions do some weird rendering tricks, so dgVoodoo won't work with them.

http://dege.freeweb.hu/dgVoodoo2.html

I'm currently grabbing screenshots of old racing games up-rezzed to HD. Some really look good (Colin McRae Rally 1 for example: http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/47401/colin-mcrae-rally-1-in-hd).

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #98 on: November 02, 2016, 02:09:36 pm »
I took a look at the cheat engine file I've made for this game.  I think we pretty much have everything we need, it's just a matter of me plugging it in.  With that in mind I might go ahead and start on this one as I can plug in the new ff code later.  I'm busy atm though so it might be next week before I get to do anything fun. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #99 on: November 02, 2016, 11:54:57 pm »
You guys guilted me into it.  I started converting outrun fxt into offroad thunder fxt.  I hooked up the VR buttons thus far, which isn't much, but it lets me know how well the game is going to handle memory writes.  So far so good.... I'll work on it a little bit each night if I'm not too tired. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #100 on: November 03, 2016, 07:37:19 am »
Yay!

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #101 on: November 03, 2016, 01:03:15 pm »
So I've got most of the outputs hooked up.  Next comes the hard stuff, aka the controls.  I've been playing with it a bit and man, I think it might be easiest to override the controls completely and handle them all on my end.  The view button acts as start in the menus which is very awkward.  Couple that with the fact that the three "real" view buttons don't work and the fact that I'll have to remap the wheel and pedals and I might as well.  I mean all that is left are the shift buttons start and pause. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #102 on: November 04, 2016, 08:20:34 pm »
Well the got the wheel hooked up, and it works.  The problem is the stuff that I had to block to control the wheel is killing the menu controls as well.  That would be an issue except I can't seem to find what variables I need to write to in order to control them manually. 

This might take more time than originally thought. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #103 on: November 04, 2016, 11:51:42 pm »
Ok I figured it out...  That was weird.  Anyway the basics are done, so let me hookup the outputs. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #104 on: November 05, 2016, 01:49:56 am »
Can't wait!

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #105 on: November 05, 2016, 03:12:15 pm »
I got the pedals hooked up.  I found a bug or three in the pedal parsing code which may fix issues in outrun. 

Nitro, rpms, speedo, brake lamp, all that good stuff is hooked up as well.  Next I'll work on the force-feedback.  Like with outrun, I'll probably do a release with just xinput rumble first and then adapt it to force feedback. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #106 on: November 05, 2016, 07:17:07 pm »
Hmm.... So I hooked up xinput.. and it kind of sucks.  For lack of a better description, the effects are kind of floaty.  Sometimes they will remain on for too long or fire just because you are sliding really hard and the resolution is kind of low.  Keep in mind afaict I have hooked up the dormant effect variables, so their crappiness isn't my doing. 

Oh well, I might be able to smooth them out later. 

For now I think they are good enough and tomorrow (or later tonight if I still have trouble sleeping) I'll concentrate on hooking up all the menu buttons.  Then I have to make a config program and we are ready for a release!

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #107 on: November 05, 2016, 07:41:57 pm »
[jittering intensifies]soon![/ji]

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #108 on: November 06, 2016, 02:40:58 pm »
I will feel obligated to put a driving cab back together when this is done.

Sent from my Life One X2 using Tapatalk


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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #109 on: November 06, 2016, 04:26:25 pm »
Well I've hit another snag.   It isn't huge like last time, but I'll have to nop a TON of stuff to get the menu buttons working correctly.  I think I've found around 20 instruction sets so far and counting.

Now the good news is the basic functionality works out of the box.  The wheel will navigate the menus just fine and the gas pedal acts as a start button in the game.  I've already gotten vr-override working along with shifter override so that's really all you need.  Getting the three view buttons to work within the menus and blocking key codes.... that is the challenge. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #110 on: November 07, 2016, 09:25:41 pm »
So I streamlined things a bit and I managed to find all the instruction sets I have to no op in order to get full of control of the games.  It was "only" 15 sets.... sheesh. 

So I'll block them and start setting up buttons.  Fortunately I don't think it's going to be a big deal to control the buttons since, if you think about it only one will ever be pressed at once.  You won't hit VR1 and Nitro at the same time, or Start and Back, ect......  the only things you press at once would be gas, brake and the wheel and those are all separate with independent writes.

So yeah, back on track.  Expect a release later this week after this nightmare of an election is over.  Or you know, longer if I have to move to Canada.  ;) 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #111 on: November 09, 2016, 07:46:46 pm »
Ugh. 

So I've got to test the gearshift and some misc stuff but controls now work. 

All that's left is to:

Find some values only active in attract mode, so I can make the start button blink when appropriate. 
Find the value I need to write to in order to get past the initial start screen. 
Find the value to bring up the pause menu.
Make some documentation. 

In addition, it should be possible to find the resolution values within the exe and alter them.  This won't improve the crappy textures any, but the models should look less pixelated.  There are something like 20-30 mentions of "640" and "480" in the exe.  Changing them all results in a crash while changing just a few results in some weird rendering.  Painstakingly replacing one value at a time and checking the results may be the only way to figure out exactly what needs changed.  I might have to recruit help with that. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #112 on: November 10, 2016, 02:38:24 pm »
Ok...  status update since I have time today. 

I found the value I need to change to enable the pause menu.  In addition, I figured out a way to pause the game without that godawful blue midway arcade treasures menu.  It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to use it anyway as the only relevant options are exit race and exit game (which there is a dedicated button for). 

I also figured out how to auto-skip that stupid splash screen that shows all the menu controls.  You still hear the "beep" but other than that you never see it. 

I also found the float value that throbs the "press enter" message when in attract.  I can use this to determine when to blink the start lamp. 

So I think I'm about done. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #113 on: November 10, 2016, 02:48:43 pm »
 :applaud:

I've actually made enough progress on my other projects that I might be able to put a driving cab back together before the end of the year.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #114 on: November 10, 2016, 03:13:26 pm »
That's great.  I'm done enough with mine to enjoy games.  There are some cosmetic issues I want to fix and I didn't get time to build the wooden wheel or properly mount the detachable h shifter, but the 360 wheel is done and works great and although I haven't had time to wire it up yet, the yoke is finished as well. 

I need to buy a flight stick, but I'm having trouble finding what I want.  What are the pot values for a 360 gamepad?  I might wire up a custom built one to a hack and that way I would have rumble.  Force-feedback sticks have all but vanished and I really don't want to deal with 15 year old sticks.  I can use the yoke for most stuff in a pinch though.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #115 on: November 11, 2016, 11:50:59 am »
So I got the start lamp working and I now have a fairly accurate set of variables to tell me when you are in the attract, in the menus, or in a race.  That means I can get the VR lamps in line as well.  I still need to make a combined vr lamp for those with only one view button. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #116 on: November 11, 2016, 12:10:23 pm »
Good lord, we have lamps now?!  :lol
I would have been happy with just having actual steering.

I need to buy a flight stick, but I'm having trouble finding what I want.  What are the pot values for a 360 gamepad?  I might wire up a custom built one to a hack and that way I would have rumble.  Force-feedback sticks have all but vanished and I really don't want to deal with 15 year old sticks.  I can use the yoke for most stuff in a pinch though.

Modern gamepads including xbox360 pads use 10k pots, but they're limited deflection (they cover their resistance range over say 90-120 degrees of physical movement).  Off the shelf pots are morel like 270-280 degrees.
You can calibrate it out in emulators, but it won't work for a lot of games.  A lot of modern controllers don't offer calibration in windows anymore.  5k (or half voltage) is center.

I have a cyber sled control panel (dual analog trigger-sticks) that I swapped 10k pots into and wired to a gamepad.
It works OK in MAME.  Since it's only using a small portion of the travel of the pots, sometimes it feels like it's taking big steps rather than being smooth analog.
In retrospect, I should have just used the stock 5k arcade pots with an Ultimarc APAC or similar interface.

Old joysticks are 100k and were wired directly to the gameport.  No electronics inside the stick.
You can wire up 100k pots to a $7 USB gameport adapter and it will show up as a generic joystick (no rumble).

The PC version of the happ arcade stick used 100k limited deflection pots that cost like $25 each + Happ's high shipping.
I forked over $40 to buy one in hopes of using the numbers on it to find a generic supplier for them.
I found the manufacturer, but the part number was a generic "built to customer request" number.

So to summarize, joysticks use limited deflection pots that  cover their total range over a much shorter distance...and you can't buy them anywhere for a reasonable price.

One of my 3D printer goals is to make parts to convert an arcade quality joystick to analog using either tiny thumbstick pots or gearing to get around the deflection issue.
It probably won't come anytime soon though.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 12:13:04 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #117 on: November 11, 2016, 12:31:57 pm »
Eh... I don't want to drag this one out like 2k6 (which is admittedly much harder to work on than this game).  I know when I put it on my rig I'll want blinky lights.  I figure why do 30 incremental releases when I can do two big ones and a bug fix and that's it.  I still think I'll have everything but FF ready by this weekend though and I'll release it Sunday most likely.

You would be surprised how much misc code is in there, including what looks like some leftover arcade stuff.  It looks like this particular build was also for the gamecube and ps2 and they literally just recompiled and used some logic gates for any platform specific calls. 

In terms of the flight stick it'll most likely get use for afterburner and some of the positional gun games (Jurassic park, rail chase, ect) and that's about it. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #118 on: November 11, 2016, 01:48:09 pm »
Just tested the gearshift override.... it works as planned (I don't know why it wouldn't, I used the code from 2k6).  I want to clean up the code a bit, but I might be able to release this earlier than I thought. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #119 on: November 11, 2016, 04:52:58 pm »
Good lord, we have lamps now?!  :lol
I would have been happy with just having actual steering.

I need to buy a flight stick, but I'm having trouble finding what I want.  What are the pot values for a 360 gamepad?  I might wire up a custom built one to a hack and that way I would have rumble.  Force-feedback sticks have all but vanished and I really don't want to deal with 15 year old sticks.  I can use the yoke for most stuff in a pinch though.

Modern gamepads including xbox360 pads use 10k pots, but they're limited deflection (they cover their resistance range over say 90-120 degrees of physical movement).  Off the shelf pots are morel like 270-280 degrees.
You can calibrate it out in emulators, but it won't work for a lot of games.  A lot of modern controllers don't offer calibration in windows anymore.  5k (or half voltage) is center.

I have a cyber sled control panel (dual analog trigger-sticks) that I swapped 10k pots into and wired to a gamepad.
It works OK in MAME.  Since it's only using a small portion of the travel of the pots, sometimes it feels like it's taking big steps rather than being smooth analog.
In retrospect, I should have just used the stock 5k arcade pots with an Ultimarc APAC or similar interface.

Old joysticks are 100k and were wired directly to the gameport.  No electronics inside the stick.
You can wire up 100k pots to a $7 USB gameport adapter and it will show up as a generic joystick (no rumble).

The PC version of the happ arcade stick used 100k limited deflection pots that cost like $25 each + Happ's high shipping.
I forked over $40 to buy one in hopes of using the numbers on it to find a generic supplier for them.
I found the manufacturer, but the part number was a generic "built to customer request" number.

So to summarize, joysticks use limited deflection pots that  cover their total range over a much shorter distance...and you can't buy them anywhere for a reasonable price.

One of my 3D printer goals is to make parts to convert an arcade quality joystick to analog using either tiny thumbstick pots or gearing to get around the deflection issue.
It probably won't come anytime soon though.

My planned driving cabs are going to use 360 controllers. I too found that the pot values for the sticks is 10k, but when I tested a 10k pot with a Happ wheel from an Offroad Challenge machine the wheel was waaay too sensitive. Just on a hunch I decided to try it with the 5k pot that was already on the machine and low and behold it works SHOCKINGLY WELL... At least in pc games and also Daytona USA on the Model 2 emu... The steering is super smooth and seems to be just the right sensitivity... Really surprised me...
My plan is to have a simple digital flight stick wired to the D-pad for various uses.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #120 on: November 12, 2016, 09:23:22 pm »
Ok here we go guys:

https://www.mediafire.com/?8ead0hhe7ashjzf

No force feedback yet, but xinput rumble works and I think I've covered everything else.  Remember that I've taken full control of the game, so you have to setup all of your controls within the fxtconfig exe.   


This unfortunately might be my swan song.  I said things in EE that I can't take back and honestly, after milling it around in my head for a day I've realized I don't want to take it back.  The tone I took was unfortunate, but the things I presented were no less true.  I thought I could compartmentalize this and just stick to arcade stuff on these forums but someone always has to open their big mouth.  Posting a video of somebody getting killed was appalling enough on it's own, but the following comments and the fact that nobody said anything... that's just too much for me. 

So we'll see.  Maybe after a night's sleep I'll change my mind, but I honestly don't know at this point. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #121 on: November 12, 2016, 09:56:21 pm »
hey HC, don't worry about that crap...
     
         how about some quotes from The Enchiridion by Epictetus:

- Men are disturbed not by things, but by the view which they take of them.

- Don't demand or expect that events happen as you would wish them do. Accept events as they actually happen. That way, peace is possible.

- Freedom and happiness are won by disregarding things that lie beyond our control.

- Keep your attention focused entirely on what is truly your own concern and be clear that what belongs to others is their business, and not yours.

- It is not external events themselves that cause us distress, but they way in which
  we think about them, our interpretation of their significance. It is our attitudes and reactions that give us trouble.

- We cannot choose our external circumstances, but we can always choose how we respond to them.

typed using my...

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #122 on: November 12, 2016, 11:10:13 pm »
Ok here we go guys:

https://www.mediafire.com/?8ead0hhe7ashjzf

No force feedback yet, but xinput rumble works and I think I've covered everything else.  Remember that I've taken full control of the game, so you have to setup all of your controls within the fxtconfig exe.   


This unfortunately might be my swan song.  I said things in EE that I can't take back and honestly, after milling it around in my head for a day I've realized I don't want to take it back.  The tone I took was unfortunate, but the things I presented were no less true.  I thought I could compartmentalize this and just stick to arcade stuff on these forums but someone always has to open their big mouth.  Posting a video of somebody getting killed was appalling enough on it's own, but the following comments and the fact that nobody said anything... that's just too much for me. 

So we'll see.  Maybe after a night's sleep I'll change my mind, but I honestly don't know at this point.

I must have missed something, sounds serious. Maybe I don't want to know. Anyway, thanks Howard for all the hard work.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #123 on: November 12, 2016, 11:33:36 pm »
This unfortunately might be my swan song.  I said things in EE that I can't take back and honestly, after milling it around in my head for a day I've realized I don't want to take it back.  The tone I took was unfortunate, but the things I presented were no less true.  I thought I could compartmentalize this and just stick to arcade stuff on these forums but someone always has to open their big mouth.  Posting a video of somebody getting killed was appalling enough on it's own, but the following comments and the fact that nobody said anything... that's just too much for me. 

So we'll see.  Maybe after a night's sleep I'll change my mind, but I honestly don't know at this point.

uh what?

I have no idea what happened Howard but I hope you do reconsider. If some --missioncontrol-- was posting videos of someone getting killed on a arcade forum then what the hell is happening in this world

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #124 on: November 13, 2016, 03:37:36 am »
I lurk only some main forum boards, so I lost the thing. Howard, please, stay: whatever happened, you have tons of arcade enthusiasts waiting for your posts here

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #125 on: November 13, 2016, 08:20:02 am »
.....but anyway

This will probably make me get off ---my bottom--- and get a driving cab put back together.
Also looking forward to trying out Dirt Devils on more recent Supermodel SVN releases.
There is a big hole in my gamelist as long as these type games aren't emulated.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #126 on: November 13, 2016, 09:45:12 am »
Howard, thanks for the release! I'm on vacation away from home this week but it'll be a top priority to try it out once I'm back!

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #127 on: November 13, 2016, 02:27:51 pm »
Just gave it a try and it works great on windows 10! Thanks Howard and your right, surprisingly fun. Never had a chance to play it before...

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #128 on: November 13, 2016, 03:46:43 pm »
I'm glad it's working.  I'll try to get a final release once I install it on my cab and I can craft some sort of FF.  It's interesting, because the game already comes with a ffe file and it's mentioned in the source around the gamecube comments. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #129 on: November 14, 2016, 06:53:41 am »
Posting a video of somebody getting killed was appalling enough on it's own, but the following comments and the fact that nobody said anything... that's just too much for me. 

So we'll see.  Maybe after a night's sleep I'll change my mind, but I honestly don't know at this point.

Don't let the outliers win. The thread was reported and post-helled as soon as we got the report. That stuff is not welcomed here.
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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #130 on: November 14, 2016, 08:14:09 am »
Posting a video of somebody getting killed was appalling enough on it's own, but the following comments and the fact that nobody said anything... that's just too much for me. 

So we'll see.  Maybe after a night's sleep I'll change my mind, but I honestly don't know at this point.

Don't let the outliers win. The thread was reported and post-helled as soon as we got the report. That stuff is not welcomed here.
I agree with Saint. Don't let stupid stuff like that get you down.

I'm sure I wasn't the only one, but I reported that thread once I saw it. Stupid political crap aside, there's no reason to post ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like that here.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #131 on: November 14, 2016, 05:07:04 pm »
and... it's been posted again.  By the original poster... and he can't figure out why it's inappropriate.  This is why I'm contemplating leaving... we've got some sick people on this forum anymore and their b.s.  is loud enough to drown out the good ones. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #132 on: November 14, 2016, 05:39:45 pm »
and... it's been posted again.  By the original poster... and he can't figure out why it's inappropriate.  This is why I'm contemplating leaving... we've got some sick people on this forum anymore and their b.s.  is loud enough to drown out the good ones.
Are you sure? I'm not seeing it anywhere.
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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #133 on: November 14, 2016, 10:03:39 pm »
It's the post with the person asking why they can't see a post that's been sent to post hell. 

*edit*

Looks like that part of the conversation has been removed.  The mods are doing their job, so I can't put it on them, it's just some people are so darn hard-headed.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 10:10:11 pm by Howard_Casto »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #134 on: November 17, 2016, 11:54:49 pm »
Back on topic. 

I got a minute or two to try the released build on my cab.  It has a couple of issues BUT, it appears that the issue in outrun about the wrapper crashing if any joystick other than 1 is selected is now fixed, so I can apply those changes to outrun and that's one more bug squashed.  I did notice that the Nitro lamp isn't working like it should, so I'll release a fix later. 

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #135 on: November 20, 2016, 09:25:51 pm »
Getting an unexpected error.  Running a build of TinyXP64.  Unpacked everything into MOT3 where my pcoffroad.exe is located.  Ensured I had everything required installed.  Ran as admin, ran backwards compatibility for 95.  Getting unexpected errors on everything. 

Fully acknowledge I'm running a nonstandard OS so if that's going to be a deal breaker for this then I understand, however, if you can work some magic and get me going I'd appreciate it to no end man.   

Howard_Casto

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #136 on: November 21, 2016, 12:54:30 am »
95 compatibility is going to make things worse, so set that back. 

An unexpected error isn't enough info.  What happens?  What do you mean you are getting unexpected errors on everything?

If the wrapper crashes and that's it then it is probably on my end, but if, just as an example, the config program also crashes, then you are missing some windows files.  I've only ever managed to get it to crash if I bind the inputs to the wrong joystick (like one that doesn't exist). 

It should be noted that I don't run XP on anything anymore, so I'm unsure if there are any xp specific issues.  TinyXP probably makes troubleshooting even harder. 




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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #137 on: November 21, 2016, 09:21:35 am »
So the text box that opens when I attempt to execute anything just says, "an unexpected error has occurred" , I click okay and it closes out.  So not a lot to go on there.  The config program is crashing like that, ditto the wrapper.  I'll reinstall the window files and give that a shot, see if I get any results.  Is there anything else required beyond what was listed in the readme?

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #138 on: November 21, 2016, 12:31:36 pm »
Afaik vb can't even throw that error (all errors are handled and given a number), so it's something missing in windows.

Make sure the visual studio 6 runtime files are installed and directx 8.  In addition, I make use of comctrl32.dll, but it's optional.


Accroding to dependency walker (which is sometimes inaccurate) the wrapper makes calls to:

msvbvm60.dll
kernel32.dll
ntdll.dll
kernelbase.dll
user32.dll
win32u.dll
gdi32.dll
advapi32.dll
msvcrt.dll
sechost.dll
rpcrt4.dll
sspicli.dll
cryptbase.dll
bcryptprimitives.dll
ole32.dll
combase.dll
oleaut32.dll
msvcp_win.dll

It should be noted that I don't run XP on anything anymore, so I suppose it could be an xp issue as well, but I doubt it.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #139 on: November 21, 2016, 02:21:16 pm »
^ thanks for the rundown.  I'm sure it's something specific to the barebones xp version I'm running.  I'll recheck all this stuff over the holiday and see what gets it running.   

shaolindrunkard

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #140 on: November 28, 2016, 01:29:44 pm »
Whats weird is the first time I ran it it worked flawlessly. Now its very glitchy the sound is jumping around and it seems like its running at too high an FPS because the gameplay is super jittery.

Wierd.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #141 on: December 14, 2016, 07:26:51 pm »
Just going back to Hydro Thunder for a sec; the standalone Eurocom version works fine via dgVoodoo's DirectX dlls, meaning you can run it in HD resolutions (1440x1080 for example). It looks awesome!

The MAT3 versions do some weird rendering tricks, so dgVoodoo won't work with them.

http://dege.freeweb.hu/dgVoodoo2.html

I'm currently grabbing screenshots of old racing games up-rezzed to HD. Some really look good (Colin McRae Rally 1 for example: http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/47401/colin-mcrae-rally-1-in-hd).

Here's Hydro Thunder (Eurocom port, not MAT3DE version) in HD 1440x1080, looks tasty, although 30fps hurts (compared to Hydro Thunder Hurricane):


p.s. the MAT3DE versions I think use DirectX9+ perhaps, as dgvoodoo2 only supports up to DX8, so that might be why they don't work in high-res.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 07:28:47 pm by VirtuaIceMan »

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #142 on: December 15, 2016, 03:08:22 am »
It looks really good man.  Have you tried contacting the author?  It appears that the project is still active and he is trying to add games on a case by case basis.

VirtuaIceMan

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #143 on: December 15, 2016, 04:55:13 am »
Oh yeah you can follow the project on VOGONS http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34931

Many, many games work on dgvoodoo2, I did a big screenshots selection of racing games, but it's only on a forum that not many people see, I may post it elsewhere soon...

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #144 on: December 15, 2016, 06:36:15 am »
Oh yeah you can follow the project on VOGONS http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34931

Many, many games work on dgvoodoo2, I did a big screenshots selection of racing games, but it's only on a forum that not many people see, I may post it elsewhere soon...
Thanks for posting that.  Once upon a time, I had SF Rush the Rock looking sweet with this.  But at some point I lost it and when I started messing with the game again, I couldn't find the same glide wrapper.  I knew I was missing a lot with nglide.

VirtuaIceMan

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #145 on: December 17, 2016, 11:11:56 am »
Oh yeah you can follow the project on VOGONS http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34931

Many, many games work on dgvoodoo2, I did a big screenshots selection of racing games, but it's only on a forum that not many people see, I may post it elsewhere soon...
Thanks for posting that.  Once upon a time, I had SF Rush the Rock looking sweet with this.  But at some point I lost it and when I started messing with the game again, I couldn't find the same glide wrapper.  I knew I was missing a lot with nglide.

If you mean the Quantum3D version (rather than the MAT3DE version), then I use nGlide Glide wrapper for that, with the launch command on the shortcut of Rush640.exe -U (640x480 res then nGlide can be set to upscale it), the -U unlocks frame rate, as it's really jerky by default.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #146 on: December 17, 2016, 07:32:15 pm »
That HD Hydro Thunder picture looks awesome.

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Re: Hacking Hydro Thunder..err Offroad Thunder (Updated)
« Reply #147 on: December 19, 2016, 04:57:14 am »
That HD Hydro Thunder picture looks awesome.

I'll repost all the other upscaled old racing games images here a bit later on, in case anyone's interested? Basically I took a collection of older D3D racing games that ran at around 640x480 to 1024x768 and upscaled them to 1440x1080!

  
 

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