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Author Topic: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?  (Read 2421 times)

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leapinlew

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2017, 04:08:10 pm »
Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter whether Linux is easier to use than Windows or not, because there's another much more fundamental reason why desktop Linux isn't being taken up by non-technical users.

If you go into a regular computer store with a view to purchasing a desktop PC (or laptop) you'll find that 99.9% of them come with Windows pre-installed, and the same situation applies if you try and buy a PC online (there is of course the option to buy an Apple product, but Apple also bundles their OS with their computers).

This creates two problems.

Firstly, there's inertia. If a PC comes with an OS pre-installed, then the vast majority of users are going to continue using that OS unless they're given a compelling reason not to.

Secondly, it gives consumers the erroneous impression that windows is just as “free” as Linux, even though the “Microsoft tax” is built into the price of the PC.

Basically, for regular non-technical consumers, Linux isn't even on the menu.

Until this blatantly anti-competitive practice is addressed by industry regulators (and I'm not holding my breath) I don't see how Microsoft's de-facto monopoly on the desktop is going to be broken.

There is a reason why windows comes pre-installed. Anyone who wants to install Linux can RTFM. Duh.

RandyT

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2017, 09:08:09 pm »
Until this blatantly anti-competitive practice is addressed by industry regulators (and I'm not holding my breath) I don't see how Microsoft's de-facto monopoly on the desktop is going to be broken.

Pardon me for saying so, but this is a very "European" point of view.  Regulation (or the lack thereof) has little to do with it.  Manufacturers aren't dumb, and they know what will help sell the hardware.  They package Windows with the systems, because that's what the vast majority want to use.  How attractive is a new system which doesn't work with the thousands of major applications and games that are Windows only, including those which users have already purchased?  Not very.

The real factor which holds down Linux is the reluctance (for whatever the reasons may be) to release versions of these major applications for the Linux platform.  Granted, developers and hardware manufacturers likely have some sweet deals with Microsoft, and some of these may be contingent upon only supporting their operating system.  But this is no different than "exclusive" titles for a console gaming system.

As impressive as Linux is, the free market is what makes the dominance of Windows possible.  For proof of this, just look at the situation with browser applications.  Windows comes with a browser, which works fine.  How many Windows users prefer Chrome or Firefox, and run one of those exclusively, even though they need to download and install it on their new Windows based system?  Millions......       

Slippyblade

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2017, 09:29:25 pm »
Internet Explorer...  the #1 browser for downloading a DIFFERENT browser.

lilshawn

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2017, 10:21:22 am »
windows, because everyone else uses windows... and people are stubborn.

this... is really the only reason people use windows. it's there... it's plentiful... every conceivable program is written for it...  it now has such a stranglehold on systems that to not have windows support would be a death sentence.

literally a few days after chromium OS chromebooks came out people had a modded windows OS you could install to it.

Steam starting to have games for linux has certainly help turn things around... but the stranglehold is real.

nitrogen_widget

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2017, 12:12:20 pm »
Sorry to revive an old thread, but has anyone tested the Rock64 yet? (Pine64)

Looks like price has went up some since this thread started, still cheaper than comparable RPi though.

https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=7147

This new board has better specs and smaller size.
eMMC would mean it will respond faster than an SD-card based OS, but you have to buy the eMMC module for another $13 for 16gb to get it.
The 2gb board is about as much as an RPI.
The 4GB board is 10$ more.
So about $60 and some change for shipping with the 4gb and eMMC board.
Also the ethernet is true ethernet and not run off the USB hub so it will be faster there also.
hardware acceleration for linux is supposed to be there as one beta user posted a video of him playing mario cart on the N64 emulator.

All that for $60 to run emulators when a PI with more support is available for $35.
for me probably not.
I can now output "240p" to crt tv's from the pi's composite port super easy now and it handles most emulation stuff i require so i'll probably stick with those for now.


I have a pine 64 and it's really only good for an android media center because that's the only place hardware acceleration works  reliably far as i can tell.
But the forums seem bare.

However, they are also selling something called a pinebook with what appears to be the 2gb version of this board inserted into a lightweight laptop with a 14" screen for $100.
If the put the 4gb version of the Rock64 in there and kept the price close i'd buy one.



barrymossel

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2017, 02:16:46 pm »
hardware acceleration for linux is supposed to be there as one beta user posted a video of him playing mario cart on the N64 emulator.
N64 emulation on Linux or Android? Because on an Orange Pi PC2 hardware acceleration is available for Android, but not for Linux.

nitrogen_widget

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2017, 06:20:25 pm »
hardware acceleration for linux is supposed to be there as one beta user posted a video of him playing mario cart on the N64 emulator.
N64 emulation on Linux or Android? Because on an Orange Pi PC2 hardware acceleration is available for Android, but not for Linux.

Linux
here is the link
https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=4682

i'm going to wait until these boards are in peoples hands and working before i decide to get one though.

barrymossel

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2017, 01:16:28 pm »
Quote
In contrast to Allwinner, Rockchip actively supports 2D/3D/media acceleration on Linux (those are very distinct and different things based on different hardware IP and software building blocks - please dont throw them together :-) , so things look a lot better from the start compared to A64.

You can check out their open source github repo here, they have a media framework and a 2D(+glamor) / 3D accelerated X server on there.

https://github.com/rockchip-linux

Rockchip also does active Linux mainlining, they have a patchwork project where you can see the work in progress stuff:

https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/lin...chip/list/
That's actually very good news. Though after my Orange Pi adventure(s) I will stay cautious for a while. But still looks promising.

Grasshopper

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2017, 04:40:49 pm »
As impressive as Linux is, the free market is what makes the dominance of Windows possible.  For proof of this, just look at the situation with browser applications.  Windows comes with a browser, which works fine.  How many Windows users prefer Chrome or Firefox, and run one of those exclusively, even though they need to download and install it on their new Windows based system?  Millions......     

You've unwittingly helped to make my point for me. There is indeed healthy competition between browsers these days and that's a damn good thing. But it's not that long ago that we were in very real danger of ending up with an internet based around proprietary Microsoft technology. The reason why there is now competition between browsers, and why browsers are based around (relatively) open standards is at least partly due to a landmark ruling by the EU commission:

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/publications/cpn/2010_1_12.pdf

Anyway, that point aside, your analogy is actually pretty weak as it's obviously far easier to change browsers than change operating systems.
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RandyT

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2017, 12:32:57 am »
As impressive as Linux is, the free market is what makes the dominance of Windows possible.  For proof of this, just look at the situation with browser applications.  Windows comes with a browser, which works fine.  How many Windows users prefer Chrome or Firefox, and run one of those exclusively, even though they need to download and install it on their new Windows based system?  Millions......     

You've unwittingly helped to make my point for me. There is indeed healthy competition between browsers these days and that's a damn good thing. But it's not that long ago that we were in very real danger of ending up with an internet based around proprietary Microsoft technology. The reason why there is now competition between browsers, and why browsers are based around (relatively) open standards is at least partly due to a landmark ruling by the EU commission:

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/publications/cpn/2010_1_12.pdf

Anyway, that point aside, your analogy is actually pretty weak as it's obviously far easier to change browsers than change operating systems.

We were never in danger of that.  If any company tried to make major components of web functionality proprietary, it would have simply been bypassed and would have died through attrition.  And installing Linux is as easy as downloading a CD image on a Windows machine, burning it, booting it and following the prompts.  If someone can't install ZorinOS, they probably aren't worried about which browser they use.

ark_ader

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Re: Severe competition for the Rasp Pi?
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2017, 12:52:34 am »
As impressive as Linux is, the free market is what makes the dominance of Windows possible.  For proof of this, just look at the situation with browser applications.  Windows comes with a browser, which works fine.  How many Windows users prefer Chrome or Firefox, and run one of those exclusively, even though they need to download and install it on their new Windows based system?  Millions......     

You've unwittingly helped to make my point for me. There is indeed healthy competition between browsers these days and that's a damn good thing. But it's not that long ago that we were in very real danger of ending up with an internet based around proprietary Microsoft technology. The reason why there is now competition between browsers, and why browsers are based around (relatively) open standards is at least partly due to a landmark ruling by the EU commission:

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/publications/cpn/2010_1_12.pdf

Anyway, that point aside, your analogy is actually pretty weak as it's obviously far easier to change browsers than change operating systems.

Yes the version without Internet Explorer (IE) and Media Centre (MC) which is called 'N' (incidentally I am using Windows 10 Pro N right now) which is supposed to encourage 3rd party software.  Which is odd since the software involved was released free to the average consumer and corporate IT departments prefer IE to Firefox or Chrome due to incompatibility with legacy web apps, and it is not as secure as IE  :blah: the list goes on.

We have been able to separate IE and MC from the host OS since Win98SE, and the EU officials are not the sharpest tool in the shed, it was a media stunt to encourage free OS and Office to EU countries in education and government. Remember....365E anyone?

So Randy's response is moot, as is your's Grasshopper (maybe you needed a bit more patience..?  :lol )

Here is something funny to feast on:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/07/31/internet-explorer-users-are-stupid/#1f7114117187
http://tinyurl.com/mysyat9
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 12:55:11 am by ark_ader »
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