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Author Topic: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7  (Read 4154 times)

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philexile

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GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« on: December 28, 2015, 10:31:10 am »
Hello,

I'm building my first GroovyMame PC for use with a Sony BVM-D32E1WU for horizontal games and Sony BVM-20F1U for vertical resolutions. I went with the following components:

MOTHERBOARD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157526

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117374

VIDEOCARD: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002AKKMNI/

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568

PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139049

HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5AD2JZ5899

CASE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119299

I'm torn as to which OS to install for the best GroovyMame performance. I've heard that 32-bit XP has the best performance, but then I'm limiting my rig's 16Gb of RAM to only 3.5Gb. I've heard that Windows 7 has an issue related to interlaced resolutions and the emulated ddraw which runs slower than XP. I haven't found much info on the 64-bit version of XP being used with GroovyMame.

I am leaning towards Windows 7, since I assume that the issues will be worked out in future builds. Does anyone know what games this effects by the way? Is there anything else I should be aware of before I proceed?

Thank you
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 02:36:35 pm by philexile »

big10p

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2015, 10:57:12 am »
Do a search for monitor detection issues with win7. However, I would still definitely go with 64-bit win7.

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2015, 11:07:19 am »
Intel 9 series chipset does not have official support for XP. It may work actually but it's untested. Also intel does not provide AHCI drivers for XP for this motherboard, neither AsRock. Either use generic ones made by Fernando or switch to IDE mode (not too good for SSD disks). Consider older board with intel serie 8. Also pay attention that only some motherboard have overclocking ability with H87, H97.

Windows XP does not support SSD disk correctly so it may have significant signs of usage after short time. Since PC for mame does not require fast HDD You might consider standard HDD. If You make selection of games everything will fit even on 160 Gb (unless You are planning use Hyperspin with movies). Performance under XP x32 or x64 is lower than on 7 x64 and it's noticable in mame.

4 Gb of RAM is more than enough for MAME. 16 Gb is absurd. Besides even G.Skill is great brand (I have 16 Gb G.Skill in my main PC) I prefer cheaper RAM for mame PC. If it's only for mame and other emulators pick value ones.

PSU is fine. Similiar one is still in PC of my wife but about year ago Corsair had many problems with faulty PSUs.

Processor is the best choice but must be overclocked. The best ratio would be from 3,8 GHz to 4,3 GHz.

Video card is ok but it's overpriced, it can found cheaper.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 11:25:29 am by haynor666 »

philexile

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2015, 11:43:40 am »
Hello,

Thanks for your feedback. I actually ended up getting a 2Tb standard HDD instead of the SSD. Sorry, I copied that information from old notes.

Are there any new ITX motherboards that still have reliable drivers for XP that you'd recommend? Maybe it'd be better if I switched that out and got less RAM.

Regarding the PSU: it seems to work fine, but should I run a test?

Thanks again

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2015, 01:21:48 pm »
Sadly many motherboards with intel serie 8 chipset has been sold out. Personally I use Asus H81 serie motherboard (H81M-E if I remember correctly). Generally any motherboard with serie 8 will support XP but still no drivers for AHCI and no drivers for Intel graphics card (since You are buying Radeon You don't have to worry about graphics drivers).

Corsair should be ok but I use be quiet in main PC and cheap Foltron in arcade pc.

About issues in Windows 7. Indeed there are problems with interlaced resolutions but groovymame runs ok. You just have to enable multithreading in options.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 01:57:02 pm by haynor666 »

philexile

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2015, 01:42:27 pm »
Hi, thanks again for your advice. What do you think of this motherboard?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H7OHW8A

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2015, 02:00:31 pm »
I think it's the best place to learn about intel H8x series overclocking http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389948

philexile

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2015, 03:08:03 pm »
About issues in Windows 7. Indeed there are problems with interlaced resolutions but groovymame runs ok. You just have to enable multithreading in options.

OK, well that sounds easy enough to do.

I think it's the best place to learn about intel H8x series overclocking http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389948

Ah, alright. I think I'm going to stick with the ASRock H97M-ITX motherboard and install Windows 7 then. It may be better just to use what is available now rather than to chase down stuff that was more readily available a while back.

Although . . . now I'm wondering if I should get a Z motherboard instead for an easier overclock, such as this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157504

With the H97M-ITX I'll have to rollback the BIOs to 1.70 without the microcode update to be able to overclock. I guess that shouldn't be much of a problem. Do you thin upgrading to the Z board would be worth it? I'd prefer to do this right the first time then have to revisit the build in the near future.

Thanks again!

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2015, 03:39:37 pm »
I'll bought simple board with H81 and that was enough to overclock G3258 to 4,2 GHz but this was mATX. Probably You will find ITX motherboard that will allow overclock G3258. Sadly I cannot recommend any specific one.

I've forgotten about Taito Type X games and model2 emulator. Taito Type X games won't work on windows 7 and typical arcade monitor (unless is tri-sync) or CRT TV. Also model2 working in interlaced resolutions will have problems with proper video sync due 30 Hz interlaced modes.

joeH

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2015, 03:40:33 pm »
I just picked up the ASUS H81M-E to pair with the G3258. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ESETQNG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01

Extremely easy to overclock.  I'm running at 4.3 Ghz on the stock cooler, but probably going to back it down a bit to 4.2.  No need for a Z mobo. 

I also picked up a used MSI HD4350 for 15 bucks off Ebay. 

philexile

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2015, 03:59:06 pm »
Would this be the comparable ITX version of that motherboard?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ESETQN6/

Quote
Extremely easy to overclock.  I'm running at 4.3 Ghz on the stock cooler, but probably going to back it down a bit to 4.2.  No need for a Z mobo. 

What RAM are you using?

I've forgotten about Taito Type X games and model2 emulator. Taito Type X games won't work on windows 7 and typical arcade monitor (unless is tri-sync) or CRT TV. Also model2 working in interlaced resolutions will have problems with proper video sync due 30 Hz interlaced modes.

That is good to know. If this motherboard I've linked will work with XP, I'll just go with that.

I'm curious as to what will and will not work with my BVMs. I'm hopeful that I will have some good luck. I will be using an Extron 203rxi RGB interface in between the PC and the BVM. I've found them to be extremely helpful with both troubleshooting and also feeding the monitors a compatible signal.

Thanks again for all the helpful information!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 04:08:59 pm by philexile »

joeH

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2015, 04:12:37 pm »
The mobo you linked does look like the ITX version of what I purchased. 

I'm using 1 4Gb stick of this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J8E8YKC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 04:15:36 pm by joeH »

philexile

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2015, 04:26:13 pm »
OK, thanks! I think I will use the 16Gb (2x 8Gb) sticks that I have now since I'd have to pay NewEgg a restocking fee. If the various issues with Windows 7 get sorted in the future, I could use it then.

keropi

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2015, 07:46:46 pm »
since I'm on the market for a dedicated system to put inside my cabin I'll just ask here: why do you people overclock the G3528? to run more complex 3D games? Do you need an overclocked cpu to get good results if the most 3D game you'll run is Tekken?
TBH I was thinking of getting the 3.5ghz G3460 , is this a worse cpu than G3528 for mame?

brad808

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2015, 10:27:09 pm »
.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 09:53:51 pm by brad808 »

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2015, 06:04:13 am »
Stock G3258 is too low for cv1k, some pgm games and probably many 3D games. Also discrete games needs high speed cpu.

Calamity

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2015, 07:12:10 am »
Definitely, go Windows 7.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

keropi

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2015, 03:40:42 pm »
I see the deal about G3528... I don't really mess with overclocking ever, I'll see if I can get a better cpu as a base and maybe oc a little if needed... any recommendations on that? is getting a better/more mhz "G3xxx" dual core worth it?

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2015, 05:16:34 pm »
The closest to G3258 overclocked will be Intel Core i3-4370 @ 3.80GHz it's price is twice as G3258. Look: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

keropi

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2015, 06:26:17 pm »
I see, thanks again for the help - G3528/oc it is then :D

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2015, 06:32:15 pm »
From my tests new Arcade_OSD and VMMaker makes finally possible to play Taito Type X games and model2 emu correctly so right now XP x64 is almost obsolete.

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2015, 10:37:39 pm »
From my tests new Arcade_OSD and VMMaker makes finally possible to play Taito Type X games and model2 emu correctly so right now XP x64 is almost obsolete.

Thanks for providing feedback, haynor666.  Two questions :

i) What do you mean by finally possible to play model2 emu correctly with the new version of Arcade_OSD and VMMaker?  What was broken / not working properly with the previous version?

ii)  Why do you say that XP x64 is "almost obsolete"?  Is there a specific emu that won't run on Win 7 or greater?

Cheers

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2015, 03:33:30 am »
Almost because there are some problems with OpenGl right now (at least one person reporting this) also I haven't made deep tests. Also I have still some problems with certain Taito Type X games.

Model2 was tested yesterday and from fast tests sound and speed are ok at least from attract modes. In next two days I'll reinstall windows 7 x64 and make all installs from scratch. Maybe something interesting will popup.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 03:37:48 am by haynor666 »

philexile

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2015, 01:17:25 pm »
Thanks again for the suggestions. I installed Windows 7 and rolled back the motherboard BIOS back to the version without the Intel microcode update that disabled overclocking. I was able to achieve a stable 4.2Ghz overclock with the Asrock EFI preset right off the bat. The voltage is set to 1.28, so I think I may just leave it at that rather than fiddle with the settings.

Currently downloading the most up-to-date MAME sets....

glewis

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2015, 11:17:34 pm »
Is Windows 10 an option.
I am about to update my 14 year old DOS arcadeos crt IPAC JPAC system made from a pit fighter cabinet. This took a while to tune the resolutions but it resulted in Solid Graphics. I was wondering if Windows 10 would be a good platform or should I just do Win7. I need to be able to use the 4550 PCIE card and the wellsG 25" monitor.
Thoughts;

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2016, 05:26:08 am »
Well, no because it is expensive while You can get cheap licence for 7 everywhere. Also it's still not tested too much.

philexile

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2016, 02:46:37 pm »
Hello,

I've finally gotten around to installing GroovyMame with CRTEmuDriver. I decided to install the Beta since I'll be using the most recent GroovyMame and Windows 7. I (think) I'm having an issue installing the driver.

I ran the installer and the PC is definitely in Test Mode as it is indicated in the lower right hand corner of the desktop. After rebooting, I ran the installer again to install the driver and rebooted again. However, when I run VMMaker it says "No compatible driver found." I ran each program as an administrator.

I assume the driver install hasn't worked – or have a missed a step here?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you

Calamity

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2016, 02:48:47 pm »
What version of VMMaker are you running?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

philexile

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2016, 02:57:54 pm »
Hi Calamity,

I'm running VMMaker 2.0 beta 2. Good news, I was able to get the driver to install. I did this by browsing for the driver manually via the Start Menu > Computer > Manage > Device Manager.

VMMaker now can see the driver and 2x displays are listed: the LED monitor I'm currently connected to with DVI and a Generic Monitor.

I guess I just have to generate the modes now?

Thanks again

Calamity

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2016, 03:00:28 pm »
Yes, just create the modes.

The driver installation should have worked in the first place. Maybe you didn't remove the previous driver?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

philexile

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2016, 03:03:10 pm »
Hi Calamity,

I definitely did remove it. I even used the AMD cleanup utility to be safe. It seems that Windows 7 just kept using that generic display driver for whatever reason.

OK, I have to run a few errands. I'll hook it up to my BVM (similar to Emubastard's) and report back.

Thanks again

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2016, 06:04:43 pm »
Thanks haynor666. I a building a win 7 from scratch and will keep you guys posted.

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2016, 06:17:13 pm »
Generic driver is build in system so everytime You uninstall Calamity driver system will install generic back.

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2016, 04:34:52 pm »
Hi haynor666. My name is Luiz and I'm from Brazil. I started building an arcade now and from what I've seen the best way to play games in native resolution is with Groovy Mame. I was seeing a topic in the forum about using windows xp and windows 7 and I saw that you gave lots of tips about it. If you can help me I thank you very much. Currently what is better windows and mame version to get the best graphics and performance in the games? And equipment. What is the best motherboard and processor and video card and memory for this? If you can help me, I thank you very much.

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2017, 03:03:47 am »
Currently what is better windows and mame version to get the best graphics and performance in the games? And equipment. What is the best motherboard and processor and video card and memory for this? If you can help me, I thank you very much.
These questions interested me too :) For information I play 15khz games only ;)
I bought a HD 6450 graphic card but I'm searching for the best mb, best CPU, and how many ram I need to run all 15khz games as original hardware on my PAL CRT TV.
Thank you! :)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 04:17:50 am by folken »

buttersoft

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2017, 07:40:56 am »
I bought a HD 6450 graphic card but I'm searching for the best mb, best CPU, and how many ram I need to run all 15khz games as original hardware on my PAL CRT TV.
If 15kHz includes the PS2 or Wii, both of which normally output 480i, then you'll need something like an older i5 at minimum. Motherboard is whatever runs with the CPU you find, and RAM is 4GB.

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2017, 08:33:59 am »
No buttersoft, when I talk about 15khz I mean MVS, CPS I, II,and III, ST-V etc... Not PS2 or Gamecube ;)

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2017, 02:57:40 pm »
Nobody to help us?... :(

buttersoft

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2017, 07:59:20 pm »
It's a slow board,  sometimes :)

Any CPU of the Core2 generation or newer will handle that games list. ST-V might chug a little until you get one of the higher Core2's though. Scan your local classifieds/craigslist for somebody's old Core2 PC, mb?  GB RAM and whichever motherboard runs or comes with the CPU you find.

If you're looking to buy new, something like a $30 A4 APU with integrated Radeon GPU, and a $70 mobo would be fine. 4GB RAM is probably minimum. But then your 6450 is surplus :)

You could also look into a retropi, those are a bit cheaper. Probably not able to handle ST-V well. And i know nothing about setting one up to get native video modes out of them or even how to run MAME on one.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 08:15:46 pm by buttersoft »

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2017, 12:21:01 am »
Thanks for your reply, buttersoft! :)
Now, my CPU is a Xeon X3380. I have an ATI X300 graphic card and 4GB ram. Mame version is 0.158. My OS is XP PRO 64 bits. I saw Windows 7 is better than XP about input lag so I wonder if I can find a better CPU and the best MB with the good RAM to play on Win 7 as I played exactly on original CPS and MVS and some 3D games as Radiant Silvergun.
Another question: is it possible to have Calamity drivers with my HD6450 on XP or is it just for Windows 7?
I'm sure Calamity has the perfect set (CPU, MB, GPU and settings etc...) but I'm sure he keeps the secret just for him... :D Unfortunatly  :-[
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 05:31:16 am by folken »

buttersoft

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2017, 02:07:01 am »
Weird setup you have now. That CPU seems much newer and more advanced than the GPU?

The 6450 needs the (correct) crt_emudriver version for Win 7 or Win 10. If you can use that card in the machine you already have, and install win7 on it, everything on your list will run fine.

Give it a go before you spend money, at least :)

Thanks for your reply, buttersoft! :)
Now, my CPU is a Xeon X3380m. I have an ATI X300 graphic card and 4GB ram. Mame version is 0.158. My OS is XP PRO 64 bits. I saw Windows 7 is better than XP about input lag so I wonder if I can find a better CPU and the best MB to play on Win 7 as I played exactly on original CPS and MVS and some 3D games as Radiant Silvergun.
Another question: is it possible to have Calamity drivers with my HD6450 on XP or is it just for Windows 7?
I'm sure Calamity has the perfect set (CPU, MB, GPU etc...) but he keeps the secret... :D
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 02:12:16 am by buttersoft »

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2017, 10:54:33 am »
As you can see on this web page my CPU is old (1stQ 2009)
https://ark.intel.com/fr/products/41094/Intel-Xeon-Processor-X3380-12M-Cache-3_16-GHz-1333-MHz-FSB
But yes, i think X300 GPU is older  :D This GPU is very weird: before installing CRT_Emudriver it's an X300, after installing it transforms itself in X1050... ???
I've tried to install CRT_emudriver on the HD6450 (Windows XP) but it doesn't work :(
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 03:29:42 am by folken »

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2017, 09:47:43 pm »
This GPU is very weird: before installing CRT_Emudriver it's an X300, after installing it transforms in X1050... ???

Had the same thing happen to me, but the card works fine regardless of the name, up until GM 0.171 at least.

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2017, 03:07:29 am »
My Mame version is 0.158.

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2017, 05:27:57 am »
Please use Radeon HD4xxx cards or newer. Such old hardware might not work correctly even with official mame.

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2017, 10:28:34 am »
My arcade box works very good but I'm sure I could have a better one...  ;) I bought an HD6450 2Go several weeks ago. I want to use Windows 7 pro 64. Now I need to know what is the most powerful CPU with the perfect mobo and Ram to play 2D games as original arcade hardwares.
What do you think about Intel I7-7820X with an X299 mobo? I've read somewhere in emulation, games don't use GPU but ONLY CPU... Is it right?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 03:30:13 pm by folken »

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2017, 07:25:05 pm »
My arcade box works very good but I'm sure I could have a better one...  ;) I bought an HD6450 2Go several weeks ago. I want to use Windows 7 pro 64. Now I need to know what is the most powerful CPU with the perfect mobo and Ram to play 2D games as original arcade hardwares.
What do you think about Intel I7-7820X with an X299 mobo? I've read somewhere in emulation, games don't use GPU but ONLY CPU... Is it right?

I'm starting to feel like a broken record...

Have you even tried loading Win 7 on your current setup + 6450? Everything on your 2D list will run fine on that machine you already have, without glitches and without slowdown. I'm using an E6600 2.4Ghz Core2Duo in one of my cabs, and it's overpowered for 90% of what you want. Is the problem that you can't get the 6450 into your current machine or something? I don't get why you're so keen to spend money.

If you use your current setup, and for some unfathomable reason it has problems, you can just take the hard drive out and plug it straight into the next machine - assuming you keep the GPU remotely similar - there will be no need to reconfigure anything beside the joysticks/controls.

To answer your other question, MAME, and thus GM, only uses the CPU. The GPU is needed to push a video mode, nothing more. This is the case with a lot of older emulators, but something newer like Teknoparrot or maybe Demul might need a bit of GPU grunt too.


Please use Radeon HD4xxx cards or newer. Such old hardware might not work correctly even with official mame.

5XXX and newer, dude. 5XXX and newer.

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2017, 11:26:18 am »

I'm starting to feel like a broken record...
I'm sorry about that buttersoft! I will try to explain clearer ;)
Have you even tried loading Win 7 on your current setup + 6450? Everything on your 2D list will run fine on that machine you already have, without glitches and without slowdown. I'm using an E6600 2.4Ghz Core2Duo in one of my cabs, and it's overpowered for 90% of what you want. Is the problem that you can't get the 6450 into your current machine or something? I don't get why you're so keen to spend money.

If you use your current setup, and for some unfathomable reason it has problems, you can just take the hard drive out and plug it straight into the next machine - assuming you keep the GPU remotely similar - there will be no need to reconfigure anything beside the joysticks/controls.

To answer your other question, MAME, and thus GM, only uses the CPU. The GPU is needed to push a video mode, nothing more. This is the case with a lot of older emulators, but something newer like Teknoparrot or maybe Demul might need a bit of GPU grunt too.
No, I don't want to spend money if games don't need. Maybe my settings are not optimized. Here they are in VMMaker for my Sony PAL TV:
VMMaker format: monitor_specs0 15625-15750, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 288, 448
So when I play an MVS game there is no problem, Switchres is: 320X224p 59.186 Hz 15.625 khz
But when I play a CPS III game (SF3.3), Switchres is:
384X224p 59.183 Hz 15.670 Khz instead of 15.432 Khz which is the horizontal rate of the CPS III so maybe I need .ini file for each system (CPS III and MVS etc...).
If I want a 15.432 Khz horizontal rate in CPS III games I must change this line in:
VMMaker format: monitor_specs0 15432-15625, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 288, 448
 What do you think about that? :)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 04:00:04 pm by folken »

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2017, 04:16:29 pm »
CPS III games won't look any better at 15.432 kHz than they do at 15.625.  When using a monitor with adjustable hfreq range, setting it up for low hfreq frequencies limits the maximum hfreq it can sync, making it worse for vertical games.

With regards to "the best" hardware for GM, it all comes down to the best CPU you can afford. As for the GPU, you're fine with that 6450.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2017, 05:10:22 am »
So, if I understand you game with 15.432 Khz or 15.625 Khz horizontal rate is the same?
What is the best OS to run GM as original hardware? XP or 7?

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2017, 09:40:40 pm »
I'd go with Win 7, it's easier to get things to run, and to get any utilities or extras on - like joytokey, or AHK, if you ever need them.

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2017, 08:52:37 am »
Very interesting thread, many good recommendations.
I also want to build a new dedicated groovy Mame PC for my aero city (last one was pretty old, 3.0 GHz Pentium 4, 2 GB Ram, and an archaic Raden 9250 card, but it worked pretty good for most games.

Now that I want to build a new setup, I'm thinking about using my old Phenom 965 Black Edition, which can be overclocked over 4ghz with ease, but I know I've read that AMD processors won't perform as good as an Intel one with MAME. It's this still the case, or with high end processors (or one that used to be hehe) like the 965 at high clock freqs won't have problems? Most demanding games I will play are maybe Demul, only if possible, if not I'm happy with playing anything up to STV.

(Still got to get a VGA)

Thanks!

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2017, 04:40:01 pm »
Can you tell me why my HD6450 is not recognized by XP Pro 64? Instead of the card name XP says:"VGA device" if I remember...

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2017, 05:19:17 pm »
Driver for windows XP is for HD4xxx maximum. It won't install cards HD5xxx and newer - http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=65

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2017, 12:36:34 am »
So I must install WINDOWS 7?

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2017, 02:01:14 am »
If You need groovymame to work with this card than You have to install windows 7 x64. XP as development system is abandoned

There is of course official AMD driver but with this one groovymame will not utilize all it's capabilities.

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2017, 11:05:47 am »
So I must install WINDOWS 7?

Install windows 10. Why the hell do you want to run an OS that's 16 years old, had support for over a decade, and now abandoned?

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2017, 11:09:22 am »
The minimum will be windows 7 x64, windows 10 x64 is also an option but I prefer less memory hungry system (I have machine with 2 Gb). Though XP is not supported mame still works fine on XP and I think it will work for years on windows 7.

Keep in mind that some stuff like emulators or games might not work correctly for example Taito Type X (erratic speed under windows 10) games or Ootake emulator (cannot switch resolutions on windows 7, Calamity long time publish modified version).
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 02:38:19 pm by haynor666 »

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2017, 04:13:54 pm »
Keep in mind that some stuff like emulators or games might not work correctly for example Taito Type X (erratic speed under windows 10) games or Ootake emulator (cannot switch resolutions on windows 7, Calamity long time publish modified version).

IMHO it would be more productive to press emulator authors to fix their buggy emulators instead of sticking to old OSes. If they're not interested or their projects are abandoned, switch to an alternative.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2017, 11:28:33 am »
Bonjour Calamity! :)
How to be sure Groovymame using good modelines, good pixel clock (MVS=6 Mhz, CPSIII= 7,5Mhz), good Horizontal and Vertical f.porchs, b.porchs and syncs?

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2017, 03:40:14 pm »
How to be sure Groovymame using good modelines, good pixel clock (MVS=6 Mhz, CPSIII= 7,5Mhz), good Horizontal and Vertical f.porchs, b.porchs and syncs?

Try here: http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=328#p328
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2017, 03:27:44 pm »
Thank you paradroid but when I use this modeline in my Mame.ini for NEO GEO MVS on my PAL Sony TV :
"320x224_60 15.625KHz  59.185606Hz" 6.000 320 327 355 384  224 240 248 264 -hsync -vsync
My tv screen is totally blurred with violet and green colors squares.. :o
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 11:47:41 pm by folken »

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2017, 02:00:53 pm »
What exact model You are using? I'll trinitrons I have/had correctly work from 49,5 Hz to 61 Hz.

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #63 on: November 20, 2017, 04:31:33 am »
KV-E3431B/2

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #64 on: November 20, 2017, 10:56:16 am »
Judging from covers for manual this tv can operatore from 50 Hz to 60 Hz safely.

Just try set arcade_15 in mame.ini.

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2017, 01:17:56 pm »
"Custom" is set in my Mame.ini.
I'll try "Arcade_15" ;-)

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2017, 03:17:14 pm »
All my Sony TVs works great with arcade_15 mode but somehow upper and lower part of screen sometimes are cut so to compesate this I'm using different custom modeline: crt_range0                15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.424, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

but try first with arcade_15

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #67 on: November 20, 2017, 06:46:18 pm »
Haynor, I set my Mame.ini monitor line from CUSTOM to arcade_15 with the previous modeline but it results the same (purple and green blurred screen)

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2017, 03:11:43 pm »
Don't use any modeline just arcade_15 as monitor

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #69 on: November 21, 2017, 04:36:59 pm »
VMMaker sets "monitor custom" in mame.ini when it exports settings to GM, and edits crt_range lines accordingly. This happens for any monitor preset defined in VMMaker (arcade_15, etc.). This way you can tweak a given preset in VMMaker and then export the modified timings to GM.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2017, 10:26:49 am »
Haynor: Ok! ;-)
Calamity: Can you give me an exemple please?

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2017, 05:46:13 pm »
folken, read the monitor presets sticky at the top of the GM forum. The range line tells VMM and GM the limits of the modelines to generate - the lines min and max are for vertical resolution. When you think you understand a bit more, go into ArcadeOSD, pick a modeline that's messed up, and try increasing the horizontal front and back porches at bit.

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #72 on: Yesterday at 03:47:21 pm »
Here are my presets in my Mame.ini: crt_range0  "15625-15750, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576"
And in my VMMaker folder: monitor_specs0 15625-15750, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 288, 448
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:54:40 pm by folken »

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #73 on: Yesterday at 07:27:33 pm »
Apologies if you've covered this above, but which OS, GPU, and which crt_emudriver version and VMM version are you using?

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #74 on: Today at 04:43:12 am »
My CPU is a Xeon X3380. I have an ATI X300 (X1050) graphic card and 4GB ram. Mame version is 0.158. My OS is XP PRO 64 bits. I will see CRT_Emudriver and VMM versions this afternoon  ;)

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #75 on: Today at 11:13:12 am »
That's a bizarre setup :)

Groovymame was probably never tested with such processor although it should work (I think). But XP x64 was again never designed for Xenon processors. X1050/X300 are old cards that are in theory supported by groovymame but almost abandoned by mame dev, probably You will get message "Your graphics card does not fully support non-power-of-two". Another problem is XP x64 itself discussed - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143085.0.html

Core2 Duo E8500 @ 3.16GHz has almost the same speed for single core.
« Last Edit: Today at 11:26:17 am by haynor666 »

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #76 on: Today at 11:39:35 am »
Haynor> I remember you told my setup was weird in a previous post :D
How to be sure to have the best and most perfect setup to run all 15Khz games as original hardwares?
I bought the most powerful CPU (Xeon X3380) on this MB with lga775 socket to be sure games will run without any problem... ;)
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=1286&cmp[]=5
I bought a new GC (HD 6450-2 GB) ;)
« Last Edit: Today at 12:11:07 pm by folken »

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #77 on: Today at 01:28:57 pm »
As I mentioned 2 posts above XP x64 has serious problems with Radeon performance. I ask some people to test this behaviour and by those  people confirmed my problem. Since You have 4 Gb stick with windows 7x64. At some point in time mame might refuse to work not too mention that performance is better and that I also tested but with G3258.

folken

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #78 on: Today at 02:18:23 pm »
I will install WINDOWS 7 in the future ;) My CRT_Emudriver version is 1.2b
What do you think about my new GC?
You and Calamity look like to be some experts with GM, CRT_Emudriver, Arcade OSD, VMMaker etc... What is you setup to run 15Khz games?
« Last Edit: Today at 04:34:46 pm by folken »

haynor666

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Re: GroovyMame - Windows XP vs Windows 7
« Reply #79 on: Today at 07:13:29 pm »
I'm not an expert but I've learn how set up groovymame and hardware enough to met my needs :)

My hardware is right now G3258 overclock to 3,8 GHz, 2 Gb RAM (plenty for XP, ok for 7x64) Radeon 5450 (more than enough for mame and old Taito Type X games) plus some cheap 400W Foltron PSU, cheap Asus H87 board and used SSD 128 Gb disk (taken from my main PC) ans some cheap Silentium case.

Your card is more than enough for groovymame.

  
 

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