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Author Topic: Best option for CRT TV with RPi  (Read 2902 times)

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space invader

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Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« on: December 14, 2015, 12:11:44 am »
Hi.

I'd want to use my RPi Retropie with a CRT TV for the best retro experience.

I have been searching over these fórums and the whole internet but as my English is not very good, I haven't understood very well, so...

Is there a good method for connecting the RPi to a CRT TV?

(the RCA composite output is not an option because of its bad quality).

Thank you very much.

acvieluf

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2015, 07:44:25 am »
Thank you! I am wondering the same thing! It's good to know the composite is bad on the RPi B, because I would've looked for that in the future.

Following...

Slippyblade

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2015, 10:19:06 am »
The composite is NOT bad.  The composite is exactly that, composite.  In other words, it is the exact same type of connection that those retro consoles used back in the day.  Use it, and get the same picture you would have gotten back then.

acvieluf

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2015, 10:29:51 am »
The composite is NOT bad.  The composite is exactly that, composite.  In other words, it is the exact same type of connection that those retro consoles used back in the day.  Use it, and get the same picture you would have gotten back then.

So maybe this is the BEST option?

floob

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2016, 06:15:22 pm »
You could use an HDTV and apply overlays or shaders instead?
Not quite as authentic, but pretty close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S--sHSTowM

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2016, 07:42:19 pm »
I haven't had a chance to try mine out yet, but I want to see if this works:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141660.0.html

Supposedly it will handle any resolution the RPi can generate, which includes 320x240.  If that can be generated as a 15KHz mode, that will allow RGB output from a Pi.

When I get some time off work, I'm going to see if I can get this into an arcade monitor, as well as a SCART TV.

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 12:43:58 pm »
You could use a pi2scart from ArcadeForge
http://arcadeforge.net/PiJamma/PI2SCART::264.html

I have one and works pretty well!

mahuti

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keilmillerjr

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 07:21:17 pm »
240p composite pic for proof!

Locke141

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 09:28:34 pm »
Could you do this with a gert VGA hat?

With the above aspect resolution mod in this solution to get RGB off Pi it should be as near perfect, Right?

You could use a pi2scart from ArcadeForge
http://arcadeforge.net/PiJamma/PI2SCART::264.html

I have one and works pretty well!

That looks cool. What resolution are you out putting?

Edit: It says in the page you linked to.

Quote
Edit your config.txt on SD Card to

disable_audio_dither=1
dtparam=audio=on
dtoverlay=vga666
enable_dpi_lcd=1
display_default_lcd=1
dpi_group=2
dpi_mode=87
hdmi_timings=320 1 16 30 34 240 1 2 3 22 0 0 0 60 0 6400000 1 #240p

I'm still kicking my self for not picking up a SCART CRT when I had the chance.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 09:51:51 pm by Locke141 »

mahuti

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 03:16:21 am »
More proof 240 composite. Using a clearance zune cable  :cheers: :laugh2:. they're cheap on amazon, and work well with the pi.

Quote
Could you do this with a gert VGA hat?

Problem with the GertVGA... it outputs VGA. You'd still need a converter for a CRT (unless your tv has vga input). Plus... soldering the Gert is a painnnn.  The composite output these days is pretty sweet.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 03:27:53 am by mahuti »
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keilmillerjr

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2017, 06:46:05 am »
Why go through all the trouble of adapters when the pi has a connector that all devices in the USA used up until recently? Buy the cable for like $5 off amazon. Change a few config lines and connect to your tv. Done. Composite doesn't even look bad. I watch Netflix on my crt over composite and it looks fine. My expensive radio shack hdmi -> composite adapter ia shLt however. It randomly will loose video for a second.

Locke141

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2017, 08:08:12 am »
Composite is fine, but it sounds like he wants "the best". They sell VGA to SCART cables on eBay.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 09:15:00 am by Locke141 »

mahuti

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2017, 10:46:33 am »
For a CRT these days.. I think composite IS the best option. That wasn't true until very recently.
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Locke141

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2017, 02:02:37 am »
For a CRT these days.. I think composite IS the best option. That wasn't true until very recently.

As you seem to be more on point with this stuff then me generally I'm curious what has changed recently?

mahuti

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2017, 08:28:39 am »
Someone updated the firmware on the Raspberry PI to directly support 240p over composite.

https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/683#issuecomment-283179792

It really made a huge difference. I have a few different TVs and in all of them, they went from subpar to as good as a TV can get. 
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Locke141

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2017, 09:46:46 am »
Someone updated the firmware on the Raspberry PI to directly support 240p over composite.

https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/683#issuecomment-283179792

It really made a huge difference. I have a few different TVs and in all of them, they went from subpar to as good as a TV can get.

Yea, I've seen that and been meaning to give it a go. It's definitely an improvement and from what I seen it's still composite and RGB should still be superior. In short unless you have access to a SCART TV with RGB or feel comfortable opening up a CRT to modifying it to RGB, which by the way is very dangerous then yes the 240p composite is the best way to go.

mahuti

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2017, 10:29:06 am »
My opinion: in the US if you want better than this: get an Arcade monitor.
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Locke141

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2017, 12:45:35 am »
True,


keilmillerjr

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2017, 06:47:43 am »
I stream Netflix, watch VHS tapes, and play retro games all over composite on my trinitron. Shlt looks legit. I don't know what the issue is that your experiencing with composite. Nearly everything tv related was composite until recently.

mahuti

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2017, 06:52:05 am »
Code: [Select]
I don't know what the issue is that your experiencing with composite.
Well the OP question was over a year ago. And back then, composite output from the PI would leave wavy lines all over the place. It didn't look that good.
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morton

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2017, 01:38:15 pm »
I am torn... I don't mind the Composite output but it leaves some to be desired. Am building a cab now and I have a CGA Monitor, and can grab a 19" TV for $5 down the road... I am not sure if I go Pi>VGA>CGA, or use the TV via composite and save the CGA monitor for a GroovyMame build or something done properly.

Thoughts?

1500points

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2017, 04:42:33 pm »
I am torn... I don't mind the Composite output but it leaves some to be desired. Am building a cab now and I have a CGA Monitor, and can grab a 19" TV for $5 down the road... I am not sure if I go Pi>VGA>CGA, or use the TV via composite and save the CGA monitor for a GroovyMame build or something done properly.

Thoughts?

I just went that pi to cga monitor route and found the pi needs a video amp before it'll display ok on the arcade monitor.
ie, the j-pac has no amp and didn't handle it well.  the arpicade jamma pcb has an amp and it looks great...the arpicade was $150ish.

mahuti

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2017, 05:36:49 pm »
Quote
and found the pi needs a video amp before it'll display ok on the arcade monitor.

That hasn't been true for everyone. Others have gone straight through the JPAC. I havent tested (yet) with my own, but I think that is coming soon.
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1500points

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2017, 09:53:56 pm »
Quote
and found the pi needs a video amp before it'll display ok on the arcade monitor.

That hasn't been true for everyone. Others have gone straight through the JPAC. I havent tested (yet) with my own, but I think that is coming soon.
Will be curious to see results.  I even tried the hdmi boost setting at 10 thinking it would help.
The arpicade sync'd right up and very bright and clear image. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mahuti

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2017, 12:55:33 am »
Yeah... I find the rumors of success spurious... but I feel like I saw a video of someone doing it this way. At the time it didn't make sense why it would work.
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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2017, 07:19:23 am »
There is a long thread of discussion (mainly in french) on this subject in the forum recalbox and a guy has released this and there are many other crazy things



[url][/https://forum.recalbox.com/topic/3475/recalbox-sur-tv-crt-en-rgb/273url]

morton

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2017, 02:40:26 pm »
I had considered using the VGA666, but will save it for an LCD bartop or something.

In regards to the 240p over Composite... I am really leaning on this now. It's just easier and cheaper to implement.

The Pi2Jamma unit looked cool and the ArPiCade as well... just a little rich for me at the moment. One day, when I have a Jamma cabinet. The J-Pac I have seen stated as having no amp, but swear I read it DID have an amp... are there 2 versions of this?? Why would The J-Pac need an amp on some and not others?

1500points

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2017, 04:16:41 pm »
maybe it is mixing concepts about monitors?

if you read here, it "alludes" that the j-pac has an amp-
https://www.ultimarc.com/vidamp.html

and that is cross-referenced here-
https://www.ultimarc.com/jpac.html

I compared my j-pac which was likely purchased in 2012 with the current pic and it looks identical.
I am having trouble finding the ultimarc info i used when trying it out on my g07 pacman cabinet. where it said j-pac didn't have an amp.
i'll keep looking.
the  doc I'm seeking talked about the 15k and 31k jumpers.
ah, here it is. it does say it amplifies it to arcade monitor levels but doesn't process it in any way.
per my test below...it is not amplified enough whatever their version of amp means.
https://www.ultimarc.com/jpac2.html

----
using the hdmi to vga adapter to j-pac the image was washed out and very dim and wouldn't sync.
the arpicade was bright and sync'd solid.
Used the same exact raspberry pi with the same sd card image, so the config.txt was identical in the test.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 04:19:41 pm by 1500points »

mahuti

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2017, 06:27:27 pm »
That amp product is $23. I really don't wanna blow $23 for that plus a new Jpac to find out... but I'm so intrigued hah hah.

That said, my WG monitor probably needs a cap kit anyway. Last time I plugged it in, it would sometimes work for a few minutes, and then go black... other times for a few hours then go black. Then it seemed like it wouldn't turn on at all. Makes me wish I had an Arpicade or ArcadeVGA card to really test it out before going through the time and expense of capping it. It looked freakin awesome when I had it working even with a case of burn-in.
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Locke141

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2017, 07:13:47 pm »
You could try Groovy Mame. It works with old cheep ATI cards and outputs at 15 kWh. Just be careful of the bios on your PC as they will still be displayed in 60 kWh.

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2017, 02:11:34 am »
kWh?

nahhh.....

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2017, 03:41:06 am »
Quote
You could try Groovy Mame. It works with old cheep ATI cards and outputs at 15 kWh. Just be careful of the bios on your PC as they will still be displayed in 60 kWh.

Not really relevant for the pi though is it?
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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2017, 11:35:45 am »
I am going to attempt to do mine today when I have some time... gotta get a new keyboard first... long story.

The TV I picked up looks good but in games there is a weird wash to the screen, I assume is due to the composite not outputting the proper resolution in games? Again, haven't done the 240p firmware upgrade yet, but hoping it will alleviate my problems. Wasn't ever an issue on my other CRT and Pi.

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2017, 12:20:35 pm »
The 240p firmware leaves a bit to be desired. There is dot crawl and such and their is serious noise on the audio. You may want to check out this:

http://www.retrotink.com

This guy made a hat that has a 240p encoder chip that outputs s-video and component. He also has a premade lakka or retropie image on his site with the configs for the new device (no roms of course).

I just got mine and I picked up an old '85 JVC 27 inch CRT  from the street with s-video inputs and I must say the games look beautiful. I also tried the component on a newer sdtv CRT I have and the picture rivals an arcade monitor.


mahuti

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2017, 01:55:01 pm »
Code: [Select]
There is dot crawl and such and their is serious noise on the audio.
The audio out on the component has always been a problem. The firmware didn't fix that. You can use a USB adapter to get high quality audio out.

I'll have to check out the hat.

Videos look great. $85 is steep for casual use. Still, something to consider to get the best output. i like his note:

Quote
Note: If your TV only supports composite, you're better off using the RPi's built in output with a 3.5mm AV cable... But please, get a new TV for $30 off Craigslist.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 02:03:33 pm by mahuti »
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Locke141

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2017, 06:27:55 pm »
Quote
You could try Groovy Mame. It works with old cheep ATI cards and outputs at 15 kWh. Just be careful of the bios on your PC as they will still be displayed in 60 kWh.

Not really relevant for the pi though is it?

Was talking about testing your WG monitor

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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2017, 06:28:45 pm »
Quote
You could try Groovy Mame. It works with old cheep ATI cards and outputs at 15 kWh. Just be careful of the bios on your PC as they will still be displayed in 60 kWh.

Not really relevant for the pi though is it?

Was talking about testing your WG monitor
Gotcha. Good idea.


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Re: Best option for CRT TV with RPi
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2017, 09:10:58 am »
I just did the 240p mod and have to say, its pretty decent given what I was getting from the composite before. When I would test out a game like Super Mario Bros on Nintendo, there was a weird effect to the sky where solid blue had weird patterns... now that I changed some things it seems to have cleaned up pretty well.

The mention of audio bothers me, as I already hated it before... hopefully no worse than it normally was. I see they have cheap $3 USB audio output devices - may have to order one today and see/hear for myself.

For my first cab, and doing it on the cheap - I can't argue much with the 240p mod - not familiar enough with things to know of or notice many of the shortcomings... ignorance is bliss, right?

  
 

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