Nintendo's worst console?

[vwalbridge]

If you didn't have 3 friends willing to play games and drink beer with you, then you didn't get the most of the N64.

Yea, this is a good point and further drives home my personal problem of it "coming out at the wrong time for me". By the time I was able to booz it up regularly with friends, I was in college and the PS2 had landed.

For every one dorm room that had an N64, there were 10 that had the PS2. Everyone moved on quickly.

[opt2not]

The controller was ground breaking, introducing analog thumbsticks

Let's just strike this out since it's absolutely false.

[BAMBOO]

I hated the SNES.  Besides the Star Wars trilogy and the Mortal Kombat series, I hated the SNES style graphics and music.

[opt2not]

I hated the SNES.  Besides the Star Wars trilogy and the Mortal Kombat series, I hated the SNES style graphics and music.

What is SNES style graphics?  You mean, you hate sprite art?

[vwalbridge]

I hated the SNES.  Besides the Star Wars trilogy and the Mortal Kombat series, I hated the SNES style graphics and music.

What the...


The SNES had one of the most comfortable controllers in the world. (Arguably the best controller for the 2D era) Not to mention shoulder buttons. The SNES also had:

-Mario World
-Starfox
-Mario Kart
-Donkey Kong Country
-Super Metroid
-Zelda Link to the Past

Absolutely great games that are still being made today.

[BAMBOO]

Opt, I really don't know what it is about the SNES.  All the games feel like they are cookie cutter games.  I had a Genesis and SNES and I always preferred the Sega over the SNES.

[BAMBOO]

I hated the SNES.  Besides the Star Wars trilogy and the Mortal Kombat series, I hated the SNES style graphics and music.

What the...


The SNES had one of the most comfortable controllers in the world. Not to mention shoulder buttons. The SNES also had:

-Mario World
-Starfox
-Mario Kart
-Donkey Kong Country
-Super Metroid
-Zelda Link to the Past

Absolutely great games that are still being made today.

Yeah the controller was and still is the best controller ever, I still use my SNES pads for emulation.  I just couldn't ever get into the SNES.  Take the Desert Strike game, way more fun on the Genesis, Mortal Kombat looked better, played better and had blood.  But that's a whole different discussion.

[BadMouth]

Genesis does what Nintendon't

[pbj]

Haven't touched one in years, but I do have very fond memories of the Saturn controller.

Dual Shock 4 is probably the most comfortable one I've ever used, though.

[vwalbridge]

The Dreamcast is a tragic console but the controller was extremely comfortable.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that Microsoft just copied heavily inspired Sega's designs:

[BAMBOO]

IMO the worst controller ever has to be the N64.  It was perfect for Golden Eye, but was a disaster for everything else.  The "T bone" controller for the NES II is the best controller next to the SNES one.  If they would have invented those for the original NES most of us old farts wouldn't have controller thumb and arthritis in our knuckles!

[thomas_surles]

The Dreamcast is a tragic console but the controller was extremely comfortable.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that Microsoft just copied heavily inspired Sega's designs:

But the cord placement on the dreamcast though...

[Token]

IMO the worst controller ever has to be the N64.  It was perfect for Golden Eye, but was a disaster for everything else.

Rebuttal = Mario Kart 64

[DudeRegular]

IMO the worst controller ever has to be the N64.  It was perfect for Golden Eye, but was a disaster for everything else.

Rebuttal = Mario Kart 64

And Super Mario 64 and Zelda. Worked great in my opinion.

[harveybirdman]

The reality is that even their worse console has MANY redeemable qualities.

[pbj]

The reality is that even their worse console has MANY redeemable qualities.

You mean devices meant for amusement tend to have fun things to do on them?  That's a hot take!

I'd say that the Atari Jaguar is the only one out there beyond redemption.  And don't even start with that Aliens vs Predator crap, that game sucks.

[Token]

I'd say that the Atari Jaguar is the only one out there beyond redemption.

Atari deserved to die for building that system.

[vwalbridge]

[Token]

Yeah, a lot of dentists bought these for the cutting edge 64 bit graphical output, but were disappointed when the images of their patients' teeth were really nothing more than 32 bits.

[danny_galaga]

Eh Gamecube was the worst because it was very restrictive at a time where xbox and ps2 were hitting the scene. Mini discs made absolutely no sense as it crippled the amount of data you could have on a game, and even games like tony hawk needed multiple discs to play. The controller was restrictive as it came at a time where dual shoulder buttons were a standard, and while it had more "good" games than the N64, it had much fewer amazing exclusive titles.

N64 is better in my book because it hit on a very sweet niche. It was the party gaming system. People were suddenly getting together for mario kart, goldeneye, mario party etc. ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, I consumed so much beer to N64 games, it isn't funny. As much as I loved the NES and SNES, I have the N64 to thank for my very happy era of drunk gaming.

I am included to agree with Vigo. In a general sense, there is no bad Nintendo console. So Gamecube is only considered 'worst' because of it's limitations amongst its peers. but it is still a great console (",)

[Blackfoot]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Starfox 64 or Turok.  I can think of many chemical induced all night sessions with my friends. 

[thomas_surles]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Starfox 64 or Turok.  I can think of many chemical induced all night sessions with my friends.

True Turok 2 seeds of evil was my favorite of the series, and cad still be had for 5 bucks all day on ebay

[RandyT]

The problem with a question like this is context.  After the NES, Nintendo suffered from intense competition with every system they produced.  Strangely, it seemed that on the hardware side, Nintendo was more concerned with whether their first party titles could be done well on it (or at least better than their last generation hardware,) without an awful lot of regard to what 3rd parties might wish to do.  The type of titles Nintendo specialized in, really weren't the most demanding.  The mini-CD format of the Gamecube seems to underscore this ideology.  Unfortunately, this put Nintendo at the peak of the curve for what was possible on their systems, perhaps by design.  Knowing this, the 3rd party developers almost always put more effort into the other systems, and left Nintendo with sometimes shoddy, scaled down versions of games.  Without robust 3rd party support, no system can compete at the same level as others in the marketplace.

Personally, I really liked the N64.  The games from RARE and Nintendo especially, were very well done, and great fun to play.  The snowboarding and jet ski games were two which stand out, and which I have never found an equal experience with on any other console to this day.  Call me strange, but fancy graphics and a zillion options don't make gameplay better for me.  But graphic capabilities became a system benchmark for the masses, and Nintendo didn't really keep up (and really, still hasn't.)

The Wii wasn't a bad system at all.  But the marketing and the hype left high expectations to which it could never rise to meet.  The limitations on 3rd party developers hurt it as well.  It made Nintendo a lot of cash, but it damaged their reputation in the process.  With higher-end competition from Sony and MS in the marketplace, a huge chunk of consumers will likely never risk purchasing another Nintendo console, unless their needs are primarily those of it being low-cost and aimed at the younger gaming set. 

The only really "bad" system Nintendo ever produced was the Virtual Boy.  Every other system was good, it just wasn't as good (with the exception of the NES), IMHO, as other options available (or emerging) at the times of their release.

[Dirk2112]

I didn't like the N64 either.  I liked Ocarina of Time and Mario Kart, but the rest was pretty forgettable.  Goldeneye was only good if you weren't already playing multiplayer DOOM.  I liked the SNES Starfox more and I didn't like 3D Mario games until Super Mario Galaxy knocked my sox off. 

I guess if I had to rank them on hours spent playing them and overall fun had, it would go:
1.  NES
2.  Wii
3.  SNES
4.  Wii U
5.  Gamecube
6.  N64

[BAMBOO]

I didn't like the N64 either.  I liked Ocarina of Time and Mario Kart, but the rest was pretty forgettable.  Goldeneye was only good if you weren't already playing multiplayer DOOM.  I liked the SNES Starfox more and I didn't like 3D Mario games until Super Mario Galaxy knocked my sox off. 

I guess if I had to rank them on hours spent playing them and overall fun had, it would go:
1.  NES
2.  Wii
3.  SNES
4.  Wii U
5.  Gamecube
6.  N64

I'd have to agree on your list. 

[vwalbridge]

I didn't like the N64 either.  I liked Ocarina of Time and Mario Kart, but the rest was pretty forgettable.  Goldeneye was only good if you weren't already playing multiplayer DOOM.  I liked the SNES Starfox more and I didn't like 3D Mario games until Super Mario Galaxy knocked my sox off. 

I guess if I had to rank them on hours spent playing them and overall fun had, it would go:
1.  NES
2.  Wii
3.  SNES
4.  Wii U
5.  Gamecube
6.  N64

I totally agree. I might tweak your list order but I definitely agree with your assessment above. After playing Mario Galaxy...Mario 64 looks like a tech demo.

[RandyT]

After playing Mario Galaxy...Mario 64 looks like a tech demo.

And after playing CODBO3, Destiny, Titanfall, et al. every game prior to 1985 looks like test pattern 

It's pointless to post-judge something like this.  Again, context is everything.  Mario 64 was a ground-breaking game.  And not just a "look what we can do" offering, but a very good game for it's time.  It even took a good while for other systems to come out with a 3D free-roaming title which could even start to compare.

And really, if using that kind of filter, I don't see how the NES could be at the top of the list.  Actually, I do.  We tend to color memories in ways which are either more positive or negative than the subjects related to them probably were.  But with something like video games, it's easy to make objective comparisons in the present.  Reality usually doesn't stack up to the fond memories we attach to those old systems and games.  They are fun to revisit on occasion, but I think few of us would forego other activities today to spend hours on end playing them, like we did when they were fresh off the department store shelves.

[vwalbridge]

Yea, I understand that games and consoles should be judged with some context. They should be considered for the era they were released.

However, this concept falls apart for me when it comes to the N64. I can pick up Mario Bros on the NES or Mario World on the SNES and sill appreciate them for their distinct 8bit and 16bit looks. They still look good today and TONS of current 2D games today clone that look. On the other hand, NOBODY is cloning the look of the N64. Because it mostly looked like crap. Everything looked like a octagon. Circles looked liked stop signs.

I get it...the N64 HAD to exist if we ever wanted to have 3D gaming today. If we wanted Mario galaxy, then Mario 64 had to exist. It was a necessary console.

I guess the problem for me is that the transition from the SNES to the N64 was far too jarring. We went from a nice comfortable 2D era to an awkward, ugly, and forced 3D world.

In my opinion, the transition would have been better if they embraced more 2.5D games.

[RandyT]

However, this concept falls apart for me when it comes to the N64. I can pick up Mario Bros on the NES or Mario World on the SNES and sill appreciate them for their distinct 8bit and 16bit looks. They still look good today and TONS of current 2D games today clone that look. On the other hand, NOBODY is cloning the look of the N64. Because it mostly looked like crap.

That's why something like this is so subjective in nature.  People are making 2D games with that look today because they are attempting (and succeeding) at capturing the "retro" gaming aficionado market.  It's also quite a bit less time and effort intensive to produce 2D gamescapes.  Systems like the N64 and PS1 are still "retro", but are really thought of as a transitional step to modern 3D gaming.  They don't have that certain something which most attribute to the retro scene.

No-one makes pixelated graphics because they think they look great.  They do it because it's easier, and to appeal to the fond memories of gamers like yourself and others looking for fresh games with "old school" play dynamics.  Personally, I don't care much for this approach.  There's no reason nowadays that the great gameplay of the retro age can't be applied to a 2D game which is more graphically appealing.  Super Mario, could still play like Super Mario, even if it looked like something Pixar produced.  If the hardware of the time was capable of it (and it certainly wasn't), that game would have looked very different, and you would have a fond attachment to a very different artistic style.  I.e.  It was hardware limitation, not an artistic choice.

[Dirk2112]

However, this concept falls apart for me when it comes to the N64. I can pick up Mario Bros on the NES or Mario World on the SNES and sill appreciate them for their distinct 8bit and 16bit looks. They still look good today and TONS of current 2D games today clone that look. On the other hand, NOBODY is cloning the look of the N64. Because it mostly looked like crap. Everything looked like a octagon. Circles looked liked stop signs.

I get it...ithe N64 HAD to exist if we ever wanted to have 3D gaming today. If we wanted Mario galaxy, then Mario 64 had to exist. It was a necessary console.

I agree 100%.   If you look at the first example of any new gameplay style, usually it doesn't age well.  If you are going to play a classic FPS game, are you going to play DOOM, Unreal Tournament, or Wolfenstein?  I highly doubt you'd pick Wolfenstein.  Try playing the first Flight Simulator...yuck!   The only exception I can think of is RTS.  Dune II is still a pretty awesome game. 

2D platforming didn't really originate on the NES.  If you go back to the Atari platforming adventure games, you will find the same thing.  Pitfall and Adventure were great games, but its not exactly something I want to play today. 

[Locke141]

I kind of think the question is flawed, the conversation around it is awesome.

Mario kart 64
Star fox 64
Mario 64
Ocarina of time

If the N64 only have the above games it would still have amazing. True, the graphs may not hold up will today but the game play does.

In my opinion, in terms of graphs the Saturn library holds up a lot better the the N64 or PS1's.

 

[lilshawn]

how about this to add to the argument...

Nintendo made their games with the consoles capabilities in mind.

sonic on the genesis? multiple places where sprite overload causes frame rates to slow to a crawl.
grand tourismo on the playstation? lag city...literally.

I can't recall an issue with a Nintendo game that behaved like that unless done intentionally by the player via a glitch or hack.

 

I was poor white kid. I got the Gameboy, SNES, and the N64 a few years after release. never got anything when it was released (Gameboy was probably the closest). The playstation was the coveted wish item but I never got one...so I just played what I had.

Nintendo's game systems are good enough for what they are. They've always kind of fell behind performance wise to the other competitors systems (with the exception of the N64 which whomped the other 5th gen systems but they where almost a year late to the game with it.) but they always seemed to play within the systems capabilities.

[MaseMan]

My biggest issue with the N64 was the graphics. All the games kind of looked the same. "Oh look, more fog in the distance."

[RandyT]

My biggest issue with the N64 was the graphics. All the games kind of looked the same. "Oh look, more fog in the distance."

All 3D game systems of that era had "pop-up" due to memory limitations.  The fog was probably used to mask this artifact.  It's better than seeing things in the distance suddenly appear out of nowhere.

[MaseMan]

My biggest issue with the N64 was the graphics. All the games kind of looked the same. "Oh look, more fog in the distance."

All 3D game systems of that era had "pop-up" due to memory limitations.  The fog was probably used to mask this artifact.  It's better than seeing things in the distance suddenly appear out of nowhere.

Yes, but for some reason it seemed more prevalent on the N64 than on the original Playstation, etc.

[dmckean]

Yes, but for some reason it seemed more prevalent on the N64 than on the original Playstation, etc.

The N64 hardware really struggled with textures because of it's high resolution(compared to the Playstation) and low amount of RAM. So everything was covered with fog.

[RandyT]

Yes, but for some reason it seemed more prevalent on the N64 than on the original Playstation, etc.

Truth be told, I forgot all about "pop-up" issue with earlier 3D games, until I started playing some PS1 games a while back. No fog, but pop-ups like crazy. Very distracting.  Honestly, I think it's a "pick your poison" situation with the old hardware.  One of the most amazing things about current generation games are the massive worlds, where everything is always there for as far as you can see.  The old hardware just didn't have the resources to even come close. And honestly, those limited resources were probably better used on interactive parts of the game, rather than pretty, long-distance scenery.

[Ginsu Victim]

The "T bone" controller for the NES II is the best controller next to the SNES one.  If they would have invented those for the original NES most of us old farts wouldn't have controller thumb and arthritis in our knuckles!

That's one of the WORST controllers! The angle on those buttons is ALL WRONG! You can't play comfortably on that thing.

The Gameboy and GBA systems use that same horrible angle and hate it there as well.

[pbj]

That's like your minority opinion, man.