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Author Topic: Spray paint or roller?  (Read 4647 times)

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megamoze

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Spray paint or roller?
« on: August 01, 2015, 01:14:50 pm »
About to get ready to paint my cab.  I'm using sanded pine plywood.  Not as smooth as MDF but a lot cheaper and lighter.  I'm guessing a can of paint and a roller is the way to go but has anyone used spray paint?  Recommended?  Not recommended?


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jennifer

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2015, 11:47:54 am »
      Given the choices I would spray it (with a high temp engine enamel) sand it lightly and spray it again, repeat as necessary for your desired look... But that's just me, always chasing that flat shine, A latex based system offers a sealer, a good choice on sappy uncured pine and the roller a flock style semi gloss finish.

Vigo

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2015, 11:58:02 am »
I generally use automotive spray paint and primer. It is my preference. I also prefer sanded plywood to MDF. Nothing wrong with a roller, you just want a very short nap roller.

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2015, 12:19:00 pm »
Foam rollers usually used for painting kitchen cabinets. Prime with kilz or zinzer.  If there is grain or other imperfections, fill with putty first.

Ond

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2015, 10:09:01 pm »
Plywood will always come up grainy without some good primer applied before paint application.  See my videos on preparing a surface (specifically plywood) for painting.

Prepare Plywood for painting - CLICK ME


megamoze

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2015, 11:41:53 pm »
Plywood will always come up grainy without some good primer applied before paint application.  See my videos on preparing a surface (specifically plywood) for painting.

Prepare Plywood for painting - CLICK ME

Awesome, thanks!

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 07:35:19 am »
I used a 3" foam roller on my last CP, and used spray paint on my newest one yesterday.

I already bought the spray paint for the cabinet, but if I hadn't, then I would have definitely went the roller route again. It goes on thicker, is quicker, and is easier to sand smooth because it is thicker. I didn't need to put on 2-3 additional coats or do a lot of rework.

I use spray enamel in both cases, because it seems to go on more evenly.

vwalbridge

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 10:39:37 am »
I've used a product called Floetrol

It's a latex paint additive that allows the paint to dry slower so that all the peaks and valleys left behind by the roller can level out. Floetrol combined with a foam roller will leave you with a VERY smooth surface.

I love spray paint but I absolutely hate the cleanup. And you have to paint inside to avoid direct sunlight and even the slightest breeze will ruin the finish. So that means you have to paint inside and I don't feel like having over-spray all over the place.

( Use Penetrol for oil based paints )
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 11:12:47 am by vwalbridge »
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megamoze

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2015, 05:09:43 pm »
I've used a product called Floetrol

Interesting, thanks!

jennifer

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 02:14:55 pm »
   If you go that route, A bit of water/spirits (Depending on the paint) would help leveler level, just make its job easier, If you look at a old cab, level and flat isn't the finish however, its more course and industrial,. That was done with a flocking, but similar results can be achieved with a more aggressive roller.... If you got access to a compressor, personally Jenn would just spray it with automotive grade primer/chems.

megamoze

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 03:29:21 pm »
I saw someone use textured paint on their cab.  Interesting, but probably not for me.  Based on everyone's wonderful advice (Thanks!!) I think I'm going to opt for a roller for a couple of reasons.  I'd prefer to paint it indoors where it's assembled, so I can minimize moving it.  I spray painted the CP base and that smell is not going away, so I definitely would like to minimize fumes.  And I'll be painting my daughters' room soon and might as well do it all at once.

Dal1980

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2016, 07:08:21 pm »
I used spray for my first project as I assumed it would have given me a wonderful finish compared to painting it on. After spending a fortune on paint cans and giving 7-8 coat primer and 3-4 coat colour finish I wasn't amazed at the finish. I'll probably go roller next time for your same reasons. Spent about 12 days painting and 12 days chasing butterflies!


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jennifer

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 08:36:54 pm »
     Spray paint (although better today) is a cheap over thinned product by nature, and has no control application other than push the button and distance, the fan is quite small for doing such a project size and its overreduction (yes the primer too) promotes shrinkage as it cures, so a repaint is usually necessary a month or so after you think your done (sounds like your at this stage)... A gun and real primer/paint would have made your life a lot easier,(if you know how to use one) Fluid control, pressure, fan size, and quality products all tend to work in one direction....AWESOME!

Ian

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2016, 12:10:16 am »
I work in the paint industry... I would say the best possible finish is priming the cabinet with a tinted multipurpose primer. You don't have to go crazy on it but make sure it is tinted (unless painting the cab white) any store you buy it from can just throw some colorant in it for free. The finish coat is the most important. I prefer to use an oil based paint because it takes less time for it to dry so it sets up perfectly eliminating roller marks. If you choose to go latex expect to sand between coats. If you get a good quality top coat the better the finish and durability. Don't go cheap. And with that said don't spend $26 on a quart of paint and apply it with some roller set from the dollar store. Get an equally good applicator. Usually a high quality foam roller works well. Don't get the soft black foam go with a Flock foam (carried by sherwin williams) If you can't find that then go with a mohair roller. It doesn't hold a lot of paint but there will be zero stipple in the finished coat. It will look sprayed.


Spray paint is an option but it can be streaky and if you don't know how to apply it right it could run, it could crack, or it could sag. So take your time with spray paint. Thin to win.

Any questions feel free to PM me.
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jennifer

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2016, 01:38:51 am »
   I see the  "It will look sprayed" and think, well why not just spray it then?... but your not wrong, just a different way to skin a cat.

bdn103

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2016, 09:19:41 am »
My last cabinet, I actually put a really thin layer of drywall mud down to fill the grain prior to priming. I then sand until all of the mud is nearly gone.  Much easier sanding the primer....and it dries much quicker.

Then I prime and paint.

Ian

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2016, 10:43:28 pm »
   I see the  "It will look sprayed" and think, well why not just spray it then?... but your not wrong, just a different way to skin a cat.

Not everyone can afford a decent sprayer... that's why... and yes spray paint doesn't count.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

ricco

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 06:42:19 pm »
i am having the same issues ATM, i applied a undercoat via a non foam roller and it leaves a egg shell pattern, applied second coat same thing, and then sand back and applied a top coat of black and it still has the same finish as an egg shell, what am i doing wrong,

undercoat was water based, same as top coat, should i be using water based undercoat and then using a oil based top coat? and using a foam roller instead of a normal roller?

bdn103

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2016, 04:34:15 pm »
I have only been able to get rid of the "eggshell" finish by sanding and spraying.

A foam roller would also help reduce the effect.

vwalbridge

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2016, 04:53:00 pm »
Yes, foam roller at a minimum.

Using a paint additive called Floetrol can help too. I've had pretty good success with it.

Use Pentrol for oil based paints.

EDIT:  funny, didn't realize I already said this a few post earlier. :)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 10:17:26 pm by vwalbridge »
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Dal1980

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2016, 09:54:59 pm »
This really is a useful thread for all sorts of painting tasks. I shall refer to this for the rest of my life! :)


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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2016, 11:16:37 pm »
i am having the same issues ATM, i applied a undercoat via a non foam roller and it leaves a egg shell pattern, applied second coat same thing, and then sand back and applied a top coat of black and it still has the same finish as an egg shell, what am i doing wrong,

undercoat was water based, same as top coat, should i be using water based undercoat and then using a oil based top coat? and using a foam roller instead of a normal roller?

Need more info.... is this a scratch built or is this an existing cab? Generally when you have any kind of adhesion issues its not the coating but the actual surface. There could be an issue with some sort of contamination. Floetrol will not help. You need to prep the surface, prime with an OIL based primer then top coat with either oil or water based coating (depends on the primer). It's a surface issue.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

jennifer

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2016, 02:22:27 am »
Plywood will always come up grainy without some good primer applied before paint application.  See my videos on preparing a surface (specifically plywood) for painting.

Prepare Plywood for painting - CLICK ME
Duplicating the grain of wood requires an act from congress, (so to speak) Depending on what it is your doing you may not want to bury the awesome of wood like that, Paint over grain gives a nice factory style finish, When duplicated by artificial means, it ALWAYS looks phony, no matter how good one is at it, because at that point its ones interpretation of art through the eyes of the artist .... On sanded pine (like the main focus of this thread however) your probably going to be dealing with knots and sap on top of random grain patterns, so yes then its a compromise.

bdn103

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2016, 11:48:22 pm »
Plywood will always come up grainy without some good primer applied before paint application.  See my videos on preparing a surface (specifically plywood) for painting.

Prepare Plywood for painting - CLICK ME
Duplicating the grain of wood requires an act from congress, (so to speak) Depending on what it is your doing you may not want to bury the awesome of wood like that, Paint over grain gives a nice factory style finish, When duplicated by artificial means, it ALWAYS looks phony, no matter how good one is at it, because at that point its ones interpretation of art through the eyes of the artist .... On sanded pine (like the main focus of this thread however) your probably going to be dealing with knots and sap on top of random grain patterns, so yes then its a compromise.

Why anyone would start out with pine plywood with a poor finish and then invest 40+ hours in building a cab is beyond me. Spend a few bucks more and get a better starting product. It will save you time in the end.
The finish on the outer layer of plywood is thin. Be careful not to over sand. Once you have gone through the layer, you are in a mess to fix things.
Below are a few of my thought. Sanding, prep and dry times are key.

My preferred method of painting is with automotive paint....but you need a big compressor (220v), a nice spray gun, and a place to paint. The finish comes out beautiful (after some practice)....and looks totally fake because it is too good. You are looking at $150+ in paint depending on the number of colors.(when I have access to good equipment). Sanding is key, but it depends on what you are spraying.

My second option is a super thin layer of drywall mud to fill the grain (don't need much), sand with 80 grit. Then roll with low nap roller using kiltz oil based primer, pre tinted may do two coats. Sand 120 grit. Then I spray with a crap compressor and hvlp gun. I spray Rustoleum (oil based) thinned about 25%. Sand with 250-320 grit (hand). Spray with a final pass and sand lightly with 800 (hand).

From here if I am to roll only, I use a low nap roller. Kiltz tinted oil based, sand 80-120. Rustoleum oil based, rolled with low nap. I usually do alot of "dry rolling" to make sure the roller doesn't leave marks. Sand wimmmmmRepea

bdn103

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2016, 11:53:35 pm »
Ran out of room on tapatalk.

Sand with 240....and be happy with the slight texture to your even paint job.

Fyi, I paint before I cut....but I cut by CNC....so my scenario is a little different. Much easier to paint flat sheets instead of assembled cabinet.

ricco

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2016, 11:37:18 pm »
i am having the same issues ATM, i applied a undercoat via a non foam roller and it leaves a egg shell pattern, applied second coat same thing, and then sand back and applied a top coat of black and it still has the same finish as an egg shell, what am i doing wrong,

undercoat was water based, same as top coat, should i be using water based undercoat and then using a oil based top coat? and using a foam roller instead of a normal roller?

Need more info.... is this a scratch built or is this an existing cab? Generally when you have any kind of adhesion issues its not the coating but the actual surface. There could be an issue with some sort of contamination. Floetrol will not help. You need to prep the surface, prime with an OIL based primer then top coat with either oil or water based coating (depends on the primer). It's a surface issue.
new build, fresh mdf, I had sanded it down before applying a waterbased undercoat, and waterbased top coat, now I will try oil based under and oil based top and see how that comes out.


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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2016, 08:37:20 pm »
Why anyone would start out with pine plywood with a poor finish and then invest 40+ hours in building a cab is beyond me. Spend a few bucks more and get a better starting product. It will save you time in the
end.

Sometimes cheap materials with a poor finish are the best choice available or at hand (for me).  I don't mind the 40 hours, I only care about one thing, the finished result.  I guess the result speaks for itself.  I'll use anything I have to, cheap pine, particle board, Marine Ply (I love Marine Ply), plastic, aluminium etc. 

The point of my videos is that with the right surface prep, paint application and finishing, just about any surface can be made to look good. The only consideration for me is they may vary in resilience with rough use.  Actually once you get used to it, filling grain, priming, painting and finishing does not
take 40 hours, more like 3 or 4 of solid work.  To Jen's point, if you want grain to show, sure by all means let it show with a nice finish.  Horses for courses ah?

I look forward to returning, hombres.

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2016, 01:54:54 pm »
Forget spray cans, rollers and brushes. You can want to spray your projects.

This is the absolutely best gun if you are looking to paint a cab. Less than $15

http://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-detail-spray-gun-92126.html

i use rustoleum satin black which is easily found from any hardware store. Thin a bit with some acetone and spray away.
Two coats and your golden.

An air compressor is needed, but you need one anyway for a brad nailer. I purchased a nice craftsman for 40 bucks on craigslist. Like new. Spraying isn't expensive and its the best option for painting these cabinets.




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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2016, 02:19:55 pm »
Forget spray cans, rollers and brushes. You can want to spray your projects.

This is the absolutely best gun if you are looking to paint a cab. Less than $15

http://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-detail-spray-gun-92126.html

i use rustoleum satin black which is easily found from any hardware store. Thin a bit with some acetone and spray away.
Two coats and your golden.

An air compressor is needed, but you need one anyway for a brad nailer. I purchased a nice craftsman for 40 bucks on craigslist. Like new. Spraying isn't expensive and its the best option for painting these cabinets.

It is awesome when you can spray your cabinet.  You want to put a good primer on first though.  I use a high build to make sure it seals well and I can then block sand it nice and smooth before I lay on the colors.   

Also you want to be VERY CAREFUL when you use a spray gun to make sure you don't get runs which can happen very easily since you are mostly painting on a vertical surface most of the time.  Light coat first for a tack coat, second and third coats can be more wet.


michelevit

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Re: Spray paint or roller?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2016, 09:29:02 pm »
I spray Rustoleum Satin Black onto plywood with absolutely no primer.
You don't need primer when spraying oil based paint onto new wood.
I've never had any issue. One of my cabs is over 10 years old. Looks new.

I spray one coat, let it tack up (10-15 minutes if its warm)
Then another coat and its good to go. Looks proper.

  
 

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