Electronics workbench talk (was "Hakko 888D")

[Slippyblade]

So, just picked up a Hakko 888D soldering station for $69 from Fry's Electronics.  Screaming deal from what I can gather - Amazon has it for almost $100.  Anybody have one of these irons and what are your opinions?  All I've ever had has been the cheap $5 and $10 Radio Shack irons, so I have no idea what to expect.  I'm hoping it heats up and holds heat well enough to finish re-capping this LCD power board I'm screwing with.

[shponglefan]

I've had one for a couple years now I think.  Used it for everything from minor electronics repair to building a full-blown synthesizer kit.

I have yet to be disappointed by it.

[Slippyblade]

I wasn't intending on buying an iron today either.  I saw the price and it looked good - then looked it up online and realized it was VERY good.

[yotsuya]

So do you still think it looks like a Fisher Price toy? :-)

It's an awesome iron, and I'll never use anything other than that type.

[Slippyblade]

Yeah - I expect it to have "Little People" stickers on it.  When I first saw Hakko gear I had a hard time believing it was real gear.  I thought it was like this stuff.

[BadMouth]

I have the old version with the analog knob.  Love it. 

[Vigo]

I almost always prefer analog knobs to buttons. wonder why the change.

[BadMouth]

Out of curiosity, what temp do you guys keep your's set to?  I keep mine a little below 350° F C I mostly do small gauge wire and decent sized through-hole stuff.

EDIT:  oops, guess the inner ring is Celcius, that would be about 650° farenheit

[yotsuya]

Out of curiosity, what temp do you guys keep your's set to?  I keep mine a little below 350° f  I mostly do small gauge wire and decent sized through-hole stuff.

750 degrees.

[shponglefan]

I usually set mine between 650-700F.  For desoldering, I have had to go higher.

[lilshawn]

hakko 936 here (888 predecessor)

all the way up...i'm impatient and have ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to do.

if i'm doing something small with thin wires and tiny traces like an AVR board or SMD I'll go down to 750.

I feel it's better to heat it up and get your part soldered before the heat has a chance to soak in and ruin your component or trace than to spend time dicking around heating, heating, heating, to get the lead to melting point.

[pbj]

I usually set mine between 650-700F.  For desoldering, I have had to go higher.

Same here.  These guys going 750 are nuts and like burning holes in their PCBs.

[Slippyblade]

Fired it up for the first time last night. 

Oh...  My...  God...

From power on to melting solder was about 20 seconds.  Blew my mind - I'm used to waiting 5 mins for the iron to heat up enough to melt solder.  Anyway, 20 seconds after turning it on, I was able to tin the tip.  Awesome.  Just out of curiosity I stabbed the wet foam and it sizzled for a good 5-10 seconds before the temp dipped at all, and then it was back to temp almost instantly.  Soldered up a bunch of connections with absolutely no heat loss, didn't have to even slow down. 

All I can say is, I'm in love.  This is the best iron I've ever seen.  Totally worth the price.  Would have been worth the regular price to be honest, making what I paid for it even more awesome.

[BadMouth]

All I can say is, I'm in love.  This is the best iron I've ever seen.  Totally worth the price.  Would have been worth the regular price to be honest, making what I paid for it even more awesome.

Next, look for a deal on one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/PanaVise-324-Electronic-Work-Center/dp/B000SSPNBU/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1438385897&sr=8-5&keywords=panavise

RadioShack had them for $30 at one point.  I've never seen them that low again.
According to camelcamelcamel, the lowest it's ever been on Amazon is $48.

[Slippyblade]

I've got a pair of those "3rd Hand" things with the double alligator clips.  They are nice to have, but that PCB clamp would be super nice.

[BadMouth]

No comparison.  This thing is big and sturdy with a heavy base.

EDIT: panavise to helping hands is what Hakko is to a $10 iron. 

[yotsuya]

No comparison.  This thing is big and sturdy with a heavy base.

EDIT: panavise to helping hands is what Hakko is to a $10 iron. 

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.... now I know what to get with my Amazon gift cards....

[Slippyblade]

Hmmm.  Could just get the PanaVise 315 instead.  Drill a hole in the bench to fit the upright and call it good.

http://www.amazon.com/PanaVise-315-Circuit-Board-Holder/dp/B000B5Y99C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438388686&sr=8-1&keywords=panavise+315

[BadMouth]

Hmmm.  Could just get the PanaVise 315 instead.  Drill a hole in the bench to fit the upright and call it good.

http://www.amazon.com/PanaVise-315-Circuit-Board-Holder/dp/B000B5Y99C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438388686&sr=8-1&keywords=panavise+315

No.  The swivel ball is half of it.  Puts the pcb at whatever angles you want it.
 Edit:  I usually end up with it upside down pointing toward me so I can rest my forearms on the edge of the workbench.

[Vigo]

Finishing my workshop is still a long ways away, but I am planning on printing out a larger version of this for my future soldering station. It uses rare earth magnets to hold the arms in place on metal plates.

[harveybirdman]

I want those!

I hate having to rig stuff to hold PCBs

[melvinbates]

Finishing my workshop is still a long ways away, but I am planning on printing out a larger version of this for my future soldering station. It uses rare earth magnets to hold the arms in place on metal plates.

Sweet thanks for that.  Printing a pair of those off now.

[BadMouth]

Was using the panavise, so thought I'd post a pic.

[melvinbates]

Was using the panavise, so thought I'd post a pic.

Wow, those do look nice.  Is that a guitar pedal you're working on?

[BadMouth]

Was using the panavise, so thought I'd post a pic.

Wow, those do look nice.  Is that a guitar pedal your working on?

Yeah, for a friend.  I can't play.

[pbj]

Yeah, the Panavise is legit.  Probably one of the nicest specialty tools that I own.

[Vigo]

Did you buy it or save it from the trash?

[pbj]

Did you buy it or save it from the trash?

I got in on that Radio Shack deal for the Panavise.  The Fluke multimeter was a trash save.

[MonMotha]

Panavise also has the "Panavise Jr." which is basically a small traditional vise with plastic jaws.  The jaws do have little slots in them for grabbing thin stuff kinda like the dedicated circuit board holder.  Both are useful.  I do still use my helping hands (99c on sale at Harbor Freight!) all the time, too, mostly for tinning wires.  I'm not fond of the totally integrated Panavise or similar electronic workstations.  I tend to have a separate sponge, iron holder, etc.  I find having them right up at the workpiece like that just gets in the way both with the work and when trying to clean/store the iron.

I've not used the Hakko stations, but they seem well liked.  I have a Weller WESD51 that's going on 10 years old and still works fine apart from a loose themocouple connection at the connector that goes from the base to the pencil which is probably my fault from catching the cable too many times.  I keep it set to ~335C for leaded work and 350-360C for lead free.

I find having an assortment of tips (also available on e.g. the Hakko) to be essential unless you have multiple irons.  Soldering down huge through-hole connectors, especially to multi-layer PCBs with planes, calls for a much larger tip than swapping out an 0402 surface mount passive.

Metcal are still the creme de la creme, but you'll pay for it.  Weller hasn't really kept up.  Their products are still decent, but other lines like Hakko and even the cheap direct-from-China brands now have similar features and even quality for a lot less.

[BadMouth]

I'm not fond of the totally integrated Panavise or similar electronic workstations.  I tend to have a separate sponge, iron holder, etc.  I find having them right up at the workpiece like that just gets in the way both with the work and when trying to clean/store the iron.

Yup.  I tossed the soldering iron holder & have never used the sponges.  I do use the solder dispenser because I have rolls of solder from my old workplace that closed.
I don't have it attached to the base though.  I got in on the $30 deal, so it wasn't like I'd saved anything by not getting the whole setup.

[Slippyblade]

I really like where this thread has gone.  Any other workbench hardware you folks recommend?  I'd like a legit bench setup eventually, and this is some great discussion so far.

[Howard_Casto]

Well a solder sucker is nice to have.  I also keep a metal plate handy.  I took one from an old jewelers kit and it's really nice because it catches stray solder, you can put the iron on it without having to worry about burning a hole in the table, ect...

[Slippyblade]

I've got a granite slab on my workbench.  I play around with lampwork glass and have a surface that is impervious to heat is really nice for that. 

[behrmr]

I use an old beat up Pac-Man cocktail glass top as my table topper when I solder.  I have the Hakko solder station too and it is freaking awesome.  For Father's day "the kids" got me a de-soldering station which has really changed the way I do cap kits.  It's so nice to just heat and pull the trigger and bam a perfectly clean solder pad.

[Slippyblade]

For Father's day "the kids" got me a de-soldering station which has really changed the way I do cap kits.  It's so nice to just heat and pull the trigger and bam a perfectly clean solder pad.

I've got one of those spring loaded solder suckers.  It does the job.  Mind you it does the job way better now that I've got a reliable, powerful iron behind it keeping the solder liquid!  I'm super jealous of some of those de-soldering tools with the motorized vacuums.

[yotsuya]

Desoldering gun or GTFO.

[BadMouth]

Other small recommendations:

A flux pen.  Sometimes I was too lazy to brush on flux. 
(half the time ended up costing more time than it saved)
Since getting a pen, I use flux every time.

A radioshack micro test lead set, the older cheaper looking version.  I use these more often then I thought I ever would; connecting to header pins, clamping onto parts in place.  There is a long skinny spring loaded lead that is amazing for cleaning pocket lint from the headphone jack on cell phones.

[BadMouth]

These

[MonMotha]

Yup.  I tossed the soldering iron holder & have never used the sponges.  I do use the solder dispenser because I have rolls of solder from my old workplace that closed.
I don't have it attached to the base though.  I got in on the $30 deal, so it wasn't like I'd saved anything by not getting the whole setup.

There is the Panavise 333 which is basically the setup linked earlier in this thread without the extraneous attachments.

I'm a bit mixed on solder dispensers.  They're nice to have, but I've never had too much trouble just setting the spool on end on the bench and pulling on it, manually rotating when necessary.  Then again, I'm normally doing super small SMT work, not bulk through-hole, so I don't use that much solder.

I don't know how people can solder without a sponge.  The metal brush tip cleaners can damage high-end tips that have alloy coatings designed to easily take solder and not require complex tinning procedures like the crappy Radio Shack tips.  You usually need something ot remove excess solder and flux that accumulates on the tip.  It does depend somewhat on what you're doing.  Again, small SMT rework is very different than bulk through-hole assembly.

For flux, I have liquid and paste rosin flux on the bench.  I mostly use the liquid.  I use a small paintbrush to put it where I want and dispense out of a small travel make-up container that you can easily get in a "TSA approved" kit.  I use a similar container with anhydrous isopropyl alcohol for cleaning the brush and removing flux residue from the PCB.  Q-tips are handy but can leave lint.  Kimwipes don't do that but are less convenient and much more expensive.

I have a couple of dedicated vacuum desoldering stations.  They both pretty much suck or rather don't.  I mostly just use braid and a "soldapult" manual vacuum tool.

I have a standard vinyl ESD mat as my work surface.  It is definitely getting torn up over the years, but that's expected.  I would love to get a laminate top with ESD foil underneath.  You can build this yourself if you want to.

For parts dishes/trays, I just use stainless steel pet bowls.  They're readily available and cheap.  If you get ones without rubber rims and have a static free worktop, the dish itself should also remain pretty much static free.

[jennifer]

     While soldering my dresses (polyester) would melt to my legs, quite painfull, so now I keep them under the table...The manual sucker actually does work? Been messing around off and on for years with mine with no luck, about just ready to throw it away. Mostly use just wick .... The sponge seems cheesy to me, so Jennifer keeps a wet rag on the table. And OMG, stainless pet bowls how awesome would that be, baby"s going shopping.

[behrmr]

Dollar store ice cube trays, cupcake pans, and bread pans, work great for parts.

The soldaput style sucker works well (wick to get what it misses).  I have this cheapo and it really works great.  Search amazon for "Blue Sucking Vacuum Desoldering Pump Solder Sucker Remover Tool".

[Slippyblade]

For screws and small parts I use the freebie 7 day pill containers from the local pharmacy.

[BadMouth]

Here's my electronics work bench shortly after it was built:

Nothing but a sheet of melamine, iron-on edge banding & 2x4's from Lowes.  I had the melamine sections cut at the store.
(EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think the top shelf was purchased as a separate shelf)
Spools of wire and piles of other crap were added after.  It's currently buried due to remodeling.  (everything from upstairs is piled into the basement)
The thing on the left is an awesome 0-36V HP power supply that came from the factory I used to work at before it closed down. (I asked for it, didn't just walk out with it.)

I'm still a newb, but I can replace parts that look burnt or broken.
I've managed to fix two free flatscreen TVs by replacing caps and I did get the wah pedal shown earlier working by replacing a resistor and cap.

Looking for that pic, I came across this other thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,130789.msg1339516.html#msg1339516

[Howard_Casto]

That's a nice, clean, workbench man.  I wish I could keep my crap that uncluttered.  Every time I start on something it looks like a hurricane went through.

[Slippyblade]

Every time I start on something it looks like a hurricane went through.

Quoted for the greatest truth ever told.

[BadMouth]

That's a nice, clean, workbench man.  I wish I could keep my crap that uncluttered.  Every time I start on something it looks like a hurricane went through.

Quoted for the greatest truth ever told.

Here's my electronics work bench shortly after it was built

Note in the pic I posted of the Panavise in use, there is barely enough empty space to work.
That space was created by using my forearm to push everything back like a toy dozer in a coin pusher machine  :


As stated, it's an extra mess at the moment.  I try to keep at least the front 24" clear.
I also built a 4'x6' melamine table with a cutting mat to work on "clean" stuff like fabrics and custom framing.
I had to disassemble it because it was in the way of making some repairs to the house.
I'm friggin' missing that thing bad.

I'm very bad about work surfaces getting piled up.  I'm building a 12ft long desk upstairs so 2/3rds of it can be piled up with crap and I'll still have 1/3 of it to work at. 

[knave]

That space was created by using my forearm to push everything back like a toy dozer in a coin pusher machine  :

I laughed at this...My bench is the same. though rather than use my arm, I have a piece of scrap 1/4 inch particle board about 11x20 or so. I just pick up one edge and all the clutter slides off to the side.

[BadMouth]

That space was created by using my forearm to push everything back like a toy dozer in a coin pusher machine  :

I laughed at this...My bench is the same. though rather than use my arm, I have a piece of scrap 1/4 inch particle board about 11x20 or so. I just pick up one edge and all the clutter slides off to the side.

Lol

Current state:

[Howard_Casto]

Eh it looks like you can walk through the room, so you still have be beat. 

[BadMouth]

Another recommendation:  You'll notice in the above pic that I have an Aloe Vera plant right on my workbench for convenient treatment of burns. 
(actually I haven't burned myself since getting a soldering station instead of using a loose iron with a flimsy stand)

[Slippyblade]

A handy aloe would have been nice the other day.  I was heat shrinking a bunch of connections and set the heat gun on the floor since my work space was so cluttered.  Then, being barefoot, I promptly brushed my foot against the hut metal ring around the business end of the heat gun.  Yikes that hurt! 

I know - don't put ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on the floor ya dumb ass!

[Vigo]

I know - don't put ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on the floor ya dumb ass!

Ouch! How about "Don't work barefoot"?


Eh, we all forget safety bits here and there. I had a near miss a couple weeks ago when I was cutting a bolt with my dremel and had an itch on my head. You think I would be smart enough to turn the dremel off and put it down first. I could feel the cutting disc millimeters from my scalp.

[Howard_Casto]

Heat guns seem rather poorly designed if you ask me.  A hair dryer heats up so the metal duct of a hair dryer is surrounded by a larger plastic shell to keep you from burning yourself.  Heat guns.... nah we'll just make the entire tip out of metal.... what could possibly go wrong?

[MonMotha]

Heat guns get much hotter than hair driers.  They have the same amount of heat output but lower airflow.  The plastic shell surrounding metal air duct of your typical hair dryer would start to melt at the temperatures encountered in a heat gun.  I'm sure somebody can point out some high temperature plastic or thermal insulation strategy that would be reasonably effective in this situation, but it's far easier and more reliable to just go with metal.

You might also want to look at some of the more modern heat guns.  Many of them feature adjustable temperature as well as automatic cool-down modes which will at least serve to limit the amount of time the metal duct is at dangerous temperatures.

[lilshawn]

I'm sure somebody can point out some high temperature plastic or thermal insulation strategy that would be reasonably effective in this situation, but it's far easier and more reliable to just go with metal.

still metal, but then a fiberglass/carbon fiber/arimid reinforced plastic shell. (like most hand tools these days) of course, it would increase the cost of the tool.

[Howard_Casto]

Eh I put a piece of 1/4 thick plastic electrical line conduit on mine.  Doesn't heat up... too thick to melt.  It's hard to estimate the cost as it was scrap, but going by the linear foot maybe a dollar retail?  You guys overthink things sometimes. 

[yotsuya]

Eh I put a piece of 1/4 thick plastic electrical line conduit on mine.  Doesn't heat up... too thick to melt.  It's hard to estimate the cost as it was scrap, but going by the linear foot maybe a dollar retail?  You guys overthink things sometimes. 

You know what site you're on, right? 

[jennifer]

Eh I put a piece of 1/4 thick plastic electrical line conduit on mine.  Doesn't heat up... too thick to melt.  It's hard to estimate the cost as it was scrap, but going by the linear foot maybe a dollar retail?  You guys overthink things sometimes. 

   **Jennifer thinks about this....Hmmm (That's my think noise, Giggle)

[vwalbridge]

So, of course I'd really love to own a Hakko FR300 Desoldering Tool

However, I just can't justify that kind of cost this early in my monitor capping career.

I already own one a basic Solder Sucker

But I'm wondering if a Desoldering Pump with Heater or a Desoldering Iron with sucker bulb would be better.

I actually really like the Desoldering Pump with Heater because it's just like a soldering iron and the price is great at $15.

I've seen others use the sucker bulb version but I don't like how the sucker is at a 90 degree angle to your grip. Could be awkward.

Suggestions?

[pbj]

One of these days I'll buy the cheapie desoldering iron with the bulb from Radio Shack, drill a hole in the bulb, and run a line to an aquarium pump.  It's just ghetto enough to work.

[yotsuya]

So, of course I'd really love to own a Hakko FR300 Desoldering Tool

However, I just can't justify that kind of cost this early in my monitor capping career.

I already own one a basic Solder Sucker

But I'm wondering if a Desoldering Pump with Heater or a Desoldering Iron with sucker bulb would be better.

I actually really like the Desoldering Pump with Heater because it's just like a soldering iron and the price is great at $15.

I've seen others use the sucker bulb version but I don't like how the sucker is at a 90 degree angle to your grip. Could be awkward.

Suggestions?

Just buy the Hakko if you plan to stay in this hobby and collect dedicated machines.

[vwalbridge]

One of these days I'll buy the cheapie desoldering iron with the bulb from Radio Shack, drill a hole in the bulb, and run a line to an aquarium pump.  It's just ghetto enough to work.

At first, I thought that was a little crazy, then I found this

[pbj]

Yeah, he's got the air flowing in the wrong direction, though.  Unless I'm misunderstanding the purpose of his coil in the shaft.

[BadMouth]

I have the bulb type one from RadioShack.  I hold it like a welding torch with my thumb pressing down on the bulb.
It works very well for big stuff, but the tip and hole on the end is too big for a lot of the small through hole parts on modern PCBs.
I've never recapped a monitor (have replaced caps in a couple modern flatscreen tvs), but imagine it would work fine on the big parts on those old chassis.
Whether it works better than the solder sucker with the built in heater probably depends on the wattage of each.  The higher the better.

I know I'm never going to do enough desoldering to warrant buying that hakko (although I love my hakko soldering iron).
Most times I just use wick because I'm only replacing a few parts.

[yotsuya]

As my collection has grown to include a lot more dedicated machines, I'm finding the need to recap all the monitors, and I've even started replacing flybacks. I couldn't imagine doing all that work by hand again.

[BadMouth]

Yeah, he's got the air flowing in the wrong direction, though.  Unless I'm misunderstanding the purpose of his coil in the shaft.

The purpose of that contraption is to blow hot air on the tabs of tiny surface mount parts.
The parts are attached via solder paste first, then heated up with air to get the paste to flow.
Air is used because the parts are just too damn small to get a solder covered iron in there without bridging tabs.

I've seen it done with the bulb type ones.  The bulb keeps the tubing from getting too hot.

[MonMotha]

Personally, I've always found drag soldering easier than hot air for hand assembly of fine-pitch SMDs.  I can do a 144 lead 0.5mm QFP in about 3 minutes.  Most of that time is board prep (cleaning, fluxing, etc.) and positioning of the part.  You also don't need a paste stencil for this which is handy.  Touching up cold joints from automated assembly with hot air can be useful, though ideally you'll eventually get your process tuned to where it's largely unnecessary.

For removal, yes hot air is handy, or I'll just cut the leads off with an X-acto if I don't care about the part and don't want to risk cooking other stuff on the board badly.  However, most of those little SMD rework stations with hot air just don't have enough volume to remove a part since you have to bring the whole thing up to reflow at the same time.  I just use a heat gun.  I have also seen nifty little workstations with bulk pre-heat air, typically applied to the bottom of the board, and then a handheld wand to bring it up the final 50-100 degrees.  Those apparently work quite well.

[harveybirdman]

Anybody want to talk me out of buying a Chinese knock off of the Hakko?  Yihua has some decent reviews at a quarter of the price.

[BadMouth]

Anybody want to talk me out of buying a Chinese knock off of the Hakko?  Yihua has some decent reviews at a quarter of the price.

No experience with it, but Harbor Freight used to sell an assumed knock-off that turned out to actually be made by Hakko.
It was pretty much just a rebranded Hakko.  Same tips, same performance.
After people caught on, they stopped selling it.

This is before the rounded blue design and before I was into this stuff.  I read it on the interwebs, so it must be true.

[vwalbridge]

Yihua has some decent reviews at a quarter of the price.

What model are you looking at specifically? I looked up "Yihua" on Amazon and they make dozens of kits.

[harveybirdman]

Thinking about the 939D

[Vigo]

This guy here? Dang, not a bad price.

http://www.tmart.com/YIHUA-939D-110V-80W-Soldering-Solder-Rework-Station-Soldering-Iron-Base-Holder_p332292.html?cc=USD&fixed_price=us_us&gclid=CO30xOrXtcgCFQaSaQodZxUH5g

[harveybirdman]

that's the one..

Hakko tips fit it.

I went ahead and pulled the trigger for 39.32 shipped.

[vwalbridge]

A smidge cheaper on eBay

[Vigo]

I like the price, thanks!    You will have to tell me what you think.

[yotsuya]

They can have my Hakko when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

[Slippyblade]

Nice!  Definitely let us know how that works for ya.  I'd love to find a knock off desoldering rig that was comparable.

[harveybirdman]

They can have my Hakko when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

I hear you bro! but SHMUP boards are expensive yo! gotta save $ where a brotha can.

[Vigo]

This is the juncture where I get my wife to guilt me into getting the spendier tool. Not that she calls the shots, but down the road she won't complain about my over-spending. Prevents her from buying expensive crap in retaliation.

"Gee, I think I am really gonna get the cheaper soldering station, I know I really love the one that is $50 more, and it would be a tool that will most likely last me my whole life and has countless glowing reviews, but I think I would be happy with the other brand model. If it craps out in 3 years, well, maybe I will have better paying job at the time to get a new one."

10 minutes of pissing and moaning about with that crap and my wife is practically begging me to spend the extra $$$

[lilshawn]

i'll tell ya whut, anybody ever used a hakko would tell you to shove a yuiha soldering iron up yer bum.

if you in the sticks and need to solder a wire, buy a yuihah or whatever... then throw it out after you are done.

these chinese clones are garbage. they don't hold heat...they are not particularly ESD proof like the hakko. you will end up wrecking more than you'll fix. the quality just isn't there. just spend the hunskie and get the hakko. you'll thank me later.

also:

[harveybirdman]

Well I did sign up for Fry's to tell me when they're selling 888D's for the discount again....

But yeah, that's not the one I'm buying and I've seen the knocks for the one that I am.  For a gorilla handed hack like me, I doubt the quality of my work would be much better with a nicer station, but your point is well taken.

[Slippyblade]

Don't get me wrong.  I looooooove my Hakko.  First time I fired it up it was almost a religious experience compared to what I was used to.  They're just a lot more money than I am used to paying.  The money I spent on it was well worth it, no doubt.  I just wish I'd been able to pay a little less.   

[menace]

I'm embarassed about how long I have been using my crappy pencil for soldering and bulb-type solder sucker for desoldering Its time for a change!

What would you guys recommend for a decent all in one solder/desolder station?

edit:
this seems interesting..

http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Function-Soldering-Desoldering-Absorber/dp/B009Q5ZH58

Oh and ditch the sponges and get the brass cleaner--works very well..

http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Soldering-Cleaner-Sponge-Needed/dp/B005C789EU/ref=pd_sim_60_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0KGMZJWH9RZXGK3YG1J6

[lilshawn]

again, just a hakko ripoff of the 701

https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_701.html

hakko IS the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, all the other want to BE it...but end up BEING ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

[jennifer]

again, just a hakko ripoff of the 701

https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_701.html

hakko IS the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, all the other want to BE it...but end up BEING ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

I find amusment in your reveiw ... I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet, Still lovin" my Weller.

[pbj]

Yeah, I've had a Weller for 15 years and it was well used when I got it.  I've had to replace a couple of tips and one $10 heating element.  Once I left the damn thing on for weeks and it was fine.  No complaints.

[Slippyblade]

From the reviews I've read Weller and Hakko are about nose to nose in the quality department.  I got the Hakko over the Weller to due it being, for some reason, on sale at Fry's.

[menace]

Am I missing something but isn't the hakko version like 10x the cost?   I get that they are the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- but I do have somewhat of a budget...

[Slippyblade]

Not at all.  I bought the Hakko 888D.  It's normally about $100, I picked it up for $70 on special at Fry's Electronics.  Totally worth the $100, which means $70 was a damn steal.

[yotsuya]

I have a cheap $10 soldering iron I picked up off the internet, and then I have my Hakko. I'll never look back. You may think it's 10 times the cost of that cheap soldering iron, but it's 100 times more easier to use.

[lilshawn]

hakko is one of the top producers. i have yet to use a bad hakko product. hakko is tailoring to the professional and the price kind of reflects it.

Weller is a close second. weller has been around for donkey's years and i've used a pile of their products. they make some great products as well, but they also make some crummy junk.

actually i wouldn't say weller is a second, it's neck and neck.

[MonMotha]

Metcal master race.

Unless of course you don't enjoy spending $1000 on a soldering iron, in which case you should probably get a Weller or Hakko.  I've yet to find anything that really compares though I must admit to being out of the market for several years.

[menace]

I just received my Aoyue 701A++ station last night  so I'll do a full review if anyone is interested..

As an aside--the Hakko701 seems to go for about $1,400 and I got this one for $185+taxes and shipping (which is about a gillion dollars canadian...)

so we'll see...

[knave]

I am very interested.

[lilshawn]

+1

I realize it's a fancy rip off, but I'm interested to see how the de-soldering part performs...especially with heavy traces like ground planes and power planes like some motherboard caps.

[pbj]

Sometimes, just for the hell of it, I'll solder with a cigarette lighter.  Works pretty well for junk like tinning wire.

[menace]

Ok so I had the morning off and decided to put the Aoyue 701A++ (plus plus) through some paces...

Overall the base station is heavy with rubber feet to keep it in place and the digital read out on both sides seems fairly accurate.  The stands for the soldering and de-soldering side are also fairly heavy duty and keep things in place--I love the little spool attachment for the solder wire.  I didn't use the sponge but instead use an aoyue brass coil cleaner--works way better in my opinion.





The soldering side heats up in under a minute (0-350) and the vacuum system works well to keep the fumes away--my old soldering stick was absolute shite compared to this thing so I'm happy--if you are coming from a weller or Hakko, it may not be as impressive to you.  But its got a ceramic heater and seems solid enough.



The de-soldering side is a bit less awesome (but still waaaayyyy better than my old radio shack solder sucker bulb thingy)  The parts don't quite line up on the gun, leaving seams--It doesn't seem to hurt performance but it does look cheap.  The filter pads that come in the kit are garbage--they basically cut sponges to the right dia. and stuck them in the gun.  Fortunately Hakko part A1033 seems to be a proper replacement.





Performance wise, I pulled 3 chips off a missile command board and it had no trouble at all (set to 420) with most of them.  The solder attached to ground planes didn't get all sucked out--even after adding new solder to make it liquid so i had to keep the heat on a squeak out the part. 

My only complaint so far is that the vacuum system can either be hooked up to the solder side OR the desolder side--which makes removing and installing the little tube a pain--I'm sure I'll come up with a Y-fitting and a quick selector valve soon enough.

Overall I'm happy with it and since its soo much faster than my old stuff, I feel like I got good value for my money.  It would be interesting to compare the Hakko version on a side by side but I don't have thousands to spend for that sort of thing...

[chopperthedog]

Got an amazon gift card from work about a month ago and ordered the same unit as above. Very happy with it. @menace I have the same complaint and have been meaning to stop at a pet store to pick up an air splitter valve of some sort.



good day.

[menace]

My next beef is that I want the vacuum on the solder side to only work when I solder.  I'm debating wiring up a trigger like on the desolder side.  I get annoyed with it buzzing away.  Although I much appreciate not having to blow solder fumes out of my face (that can't be good for you..lead-free or otherwise...)

[pbj]

Got handed this thing.  I guess it's for having a pool of melted solder handy:



My undying respect and admiration for anyone that comes up with a use for it.

[Vigo]

You mean besides tinning 30 wires simultaneously? Eh I would probably find a use for it melting lead up. I've poured lead in stuff to weigh it down, where I live there are still people who melt down metal l to make their own fishing lures and bullets and stuff. They probably use lead and are slowly killing themselves. 

[jennifer]

    A observation of Jenns was few people wash there hands (or do it correctly) after using the bathroom, Carry this over to people who work with boards, and consequently lead and other toxic substances, Yes, Vigo your most likely are correct, They are ingesting the stuff... As for Jims solder pot, SCORE! 

[lilshawn]

Got handed this thing.  I guess it's for having a pool of melted solder handy:



My undying respect and admiration for anyone that comes up with a use for it.

if it gets hot enough, a guy could pre-tin wires with it. really only useful if you had a whole pile of wires you need to pre-tin.

maybe use it to melt wax and make your own candles?



but still, if you find a use for it, it will come in super hady when you do.

[knave]

While we are talking about electronics workbench tools...

Where is the best place to order tips for a radio shack 40W iron? (I've looked several times and I just don't know what is competitive.)

[lilshawn]

is radioshack even around anymore??? I know they've all but closed up shop in canada.

It may be beneficial to simply purchase a new iron for what it's worth. I'd recommend a name brand like weller or Hakko. the Weller WM120 is probably pretty close your ratshack iron and can be had for under 50 bucks.

[Slippyblade]

is radioshack even around anymore??? I know they've all but closed up shop in canada.

They filed bankruptcy earlier this year and were bought up by Sprint.  2/3s of the stores were closed up and liquidated.  There are still a handful around (3 in the Phoenix, AZ area for example) but they are basically dead.  The writing was on the wall for over a decade.  When they shifted their focus from DIY to "consumer goods" and cell phones, they basically signed the companies death warrant.  Why would anybody shop for consumer electronics from Radio Shack when better quality and cheaper prices were to be had a mile down the road?

[Howard_Casto]

Not quite. 

RadioShack failed when they attempted to be a cell phone store, failed, and then tried to shift their focus back to DIY, which was a nice sentiment except now we have the internet, so nobody is going to get conned into buying a 5 dollar resistor, especially when you only have two packets in stock. 

In the 70's and 80's they didn't make their money as a DIY store, but rather the spencer gifts for nerds.  They sold computers, r/c cars, robots, experiment kits and more, all under Radio Shack branding and all exclusive to the store.  Yes they also kept the tinkerers satisfied, but that wasn't their main source of revenue since the early 70's.  They had sense enough to know that both were essential to the business model though as they didn't seem legit without the isles of parts and cb equipment. 

The fact that the phone company that, in our neck of the woods at least, was always directly beside RadioShack in any mall/shopping center was who bought them is particularly sad.  It's like the CEOs never saw one of their stores out in the wild or something. 

[yotsuya]

Got handed this thing.  I guess it's for having a pool of melted solder handy:



My undying respect and admiration for anyone that comes up with a use for it.

PBJ Personal Fondue Pot?

[vwalbridge]

More like fon-don't...


...sorry, I'll show myself out.

[pbj]

That thing holds one chip's worth of queso, tops. 

[harveybirdman]

Couple of new arrivals or soon to be arrivals.


If I had it to do over again I would have bought the knock off Hot Air/Soldering Station Combo instead of buying them independently.... But I'm super stoked about the Panavise, can't wait to do some work on my Fighting Hawk.

[lilshawn]

Don't turn it on, take it apart... and make sure it's not messed up inside.

[harveybirdman]

Don't turn it on, take it apart... and make sure it's not messed up inside.

  thanks man I'll give it a look.

[ChadTower]

Just catching up on some threads I haven't seen before.


I have two workbenches.  One is in the basement next to my gameroom and is basically a dumping station for random objects.  I haven't seen the table surface in a year and you cannot walk past it.  It is the bench Howard described earlier in the thread.


I also have a shed out back that I do work in and this is the workbench there.  I make a real effort to keep that one neat or else I cannot do any work at all.  My equipment is pretty basic as you can see.  An analog Weller station, a soldapult, and there's a fairly big Panavise holding station under the bench that I rarely take out.  I find with those basic tools I can do pretty much anything I need short of real mini stuff or small surface mount.

[lilshawn]

I use the Weller WES51 at home too. got it for free. so 

Been thinking about getting one of those rework stations from china for the increased amount of SMD stuff i've been having to fix in the last few years.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/311511049853?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

not so much for the soldering iron... (basically a hakko ripooff) but mainly for the hot air. pretty hard to screw up hot air i think. and having an adjustable power supply on the bench for quick testing would be handy. I'd of course actually check the power supply and see if it's accurate and safe. But for 175 shipped, it's probably worth it just to try it out.

[Slippyblade]

Nice to see this thread is still alive!  Loving my Hakko still, I use it on a near weekly basis.  Really wishing I had a good de-soldering station though.  That is on the list for next major purchase, that and an O-scope.

[ChadTower]

I thought about that for a long time too in regard to a desoldering station.  Then eventually I realized that unless I was going to do serious volume desoldering it just wasn't necessary.  I mean, we can do volume soldering, but volume desoldering is rare.  Build up the skill with the soldapult and you'll be fine.  I've seen truly skilled workers quickly swap out a whole row of large sockets with a soldapult.  It can be done.

[Slippyblade]

My biggest problem with a soldapult is that I either use it to soon, thus melting the tip, or to late and the solder has cooled.  I LOVE braid though, too bad it's so expensive.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, been there.  That's just skill level.  Practice more on things you don't care about.  Get an old VCR and go to town on it over and over again until you stop doing that.

[vwalbridge]

You can make fun of me all you want but for $16, this Vacuum Desoldering Iron makes life pretty easy.

I love Hakko and own own the FX88D but their Desoldering gun is too expensive if you don't desolder very often.

[ChadTower]

That does look pretty handy and definitely worth a shot at that price point.  $15 isn't much these days.

[Slippyblade]

You can make fun of me all you want but for $16, this Vacuum Desoldering Iron makes life pretty easy.

That looks great!  Does it hold heat well enough to desolder from a ground plane?  That was one of my biggest problems that the Hakko solved.  All my previous irons would just lose heat too fast when faced with a plane of copper, the Hakko just laughs.

[ChadTower]

If it doesn't you could always add a little more heat with the Hakko.  I improved my soldering skills by quite a lot when I stopped thinking about managing solder and started thinking about managing heat.  If you visualize the heat movement from your iron into the joint, the pad, and the traces around it, it is a lot easier to get a feel on when enough is enough.  And more importantly when you need to pull away before damaging anything.  That small change in point of view was a major change in skill level for me.

[BadMouth]

 

Figured I'd bump this instead of starting a new thread.

Anyone have a multimeter that they absolutely love?

Right now I've got a $30 Sperry and an off brand mini analog that I've had since my late teens.
They do everything I need, except don't have a beep for continuity which would be nice.
I had a Harbor Freight one (free with coupon), but threw it away because the readings were so far off.
I'm starting to kick around ideas for my Christmas list and a new multimeter might end up on it.   

[Slippyblade]

Continuity beep is a must have, in my opinion.  It's the thing I use most on my meter. 

I've got a couple Harbor Freight freebies, they do the job.  Not well, but they do it.  Meter I use most though is just some little off-brand that I paid like $10 for.  Large display, kickstand on the back, continuity beep, decent battery life.

Tell you what I miss though...  back in high school I took several electronics classes and they had these AWESOME Fluke analog meters.  Big, brick-like things.  But they were accurate as hell and tough as all get out. 

[lilshawn]

Fluke 87 all the way.

it's a literal FORTUNE (like 500+ buck) but it's the best there is and it shows and for the pro home user it will last forever)

I have three 87 series meters starting with the original 87, I replaced it with an 87 III, then replaced that with the 87V.

All of them still work and are accurate as fuuuuu.

the 87 is a little rough. it's been knocked about in a toolbox for probably 20 years now. it's currently in my mobile toolbox. the LCD is showing some signs of damage from being frozen to -40 for weeks at a time during the winter but it still works fine.

the 87III is currently in the shop at work. I've used it 10 times already today. I broke the negative lead connection for the banana jacks by dropping it. i unsoldered the unit and flipped it around 180 degrees and put it back in. I don't have uA current measuring capability now, but otherwise it works. besides, i have literally NEVER done uA measurements. mA and A still work just fine.

the 87V I bought for use at home. the only issue i've run into is that the current defaults to AC on the Mark V and not DC like the previous models. you have to press a button to switch to DC current. it's an extra thing to do, but not that big of a deal.


if you buy a used 80 series i recommend the Mark 3 or better. The original ones you had to disassemble the case to change the battery.... a real pain in the ass... and you also void your calibration cert by opening it.

newer models starting with the mark 3 have a battery door so you can replace the battery without voiding your calibration certification.

if you don't want to drop half a grand on a skookum quality meter, AvE said the "fluke 12e" (basically a fluke 115 clone made  for china only) is an awesome meter for 100 bucks.

[HaRuMaN]

I use a HP 34401a.   It's a beast.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251822510795

[lilshawn]

I use a HP 34401a.   It's a beast.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251822510795

the local technical university has a bunch of those that the just recently replaced with something new. (basically whole new labs)

I'm keeping a look out at the government surplus store for them. The desks and stuff have already run through...just waiting for the electronics. I'm on the hunt for a digital scope. but a nice HP/Agilent/keysight/whateverthaycallthemselvesnow meter would be good too.

[Slippyblade]

Lilshawn, let us know if you see them go up for surplus!

[lilshawn]

Lilshawn, let us know if you see them go up for surplus!

yeh, for sure I can do that. If people want this kind of thing and they go on for a good deal I'll pick up a couple and flip 'em.

[BadMouth]

So people are either using $10 meters or $500+ professional meters?   
The cheaper Fluke meters are geared more toward the electrician than the electronics hobbyist.

After some research, I ended up ordering the Uni-T UT139C. 
I watched EEVBlogs teardown and criticisms of the other Uni-T models, but the manufacturer must have been watching too because those issues seem to have been addressed on the UT139C (judging from a teardown video).

It's $40, has a backlight & temperature probe.  I think it is what I'm looking for.
The problem is that I went ahead and bought it instead of putting it on my Christmas list. 

EDIT:I watched some more reviews on youtube.  Seems the backlight turns off 15 seconds after you turn it on which I'm sure will get annoying.  Still happy that I ordered it.  Not much else to knock about it unless you plan on working on super high voltage stuff.

[Slippyblade]

Totally adding that to my Wish List.  A temp probe would be awesome, and the price is workable.  Reviews seem overall pretty darn good, too.

[lilshawn]

the fluke comes with a type k temp probe, but in all honesty, i've used it once and really in that instance I could have just used my non-contact thermometer (which I use almost as often as my multimeter). I've never needed to measure temperature in excess of 500c anyways. I guess if I need to measure something 2000 degrees it will come in handy...but not really for anything I do. if a component is 2000 degrees, it becomes pretty obvious.

[BadMouth]

Saw this pop up on slickdeals.  Home Depot has a Magnetizer/Demagnetizer for $2.97 (free store pickup where in stock).  Not sure if that's a sale or the regular price, but it's about as cheap as you'll find one.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Precision-Magnetizer-Demagnetizer-3601H/204664387?cm_mmc=CJ-_-4485850-_-10368321&AID=10368321&PID=4485850&SID=1fffe02ecbb411e6a8aaee06bf98b0f50INT&cj=true



I paid double or so for a Wiha brand.  They look about the same.
It's been one of those "I should have got one of these years ago" type of tools.
Great addition to an electronics workbench if you don't already have one.

[BadMouth]

This was a good old thread.  Going to bump it.

For anyone who doesn't have a workbench yet and wants something ready to assemble:
Walmart has a metal workbench with LED light on sale for $70 or a little less with the in store pickup credit.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/The-WORKPRO-Multi-Purpose-Workbench-with-Work-Light/47702077?u1=fe5f24e09f3611e8bc552ab9d51e9d180INT&id=lw9MynSeamY

Looks decent for the price.

[lilshawn]

That's pretty sweet....great price too.

this is the best I can do in canada...for 325 canuckistan kopeks.

https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/international-72-workbench-with-pegboard/6000189530873