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djfender

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« on: July 01, 2015, 08:10:40 am »
#
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 10:03:18 pm by djfender »
Is that a Sanwa in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

"Hotrodded" Hanaho Hotrod w/Kade MiniArcade 2.0 on Leonardo

PL1

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Re: JVS-PAC in Reverse?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2015, 10:29:35 am »
I had the idea to utilize a Kade (Minimus AVR 32k)
. . .
Analog Banana, or your steering wheel pot and pedals
The Atmel 32u2 Minimus AVRs can handle digital (microswitch) and optical (spinner or trackball) inputs, but not analog. (potentiometer)

You'll need an Atmel 32u4 or later AVR to do analog inputs.

IMHO the AVR and source code in the currently-available open source KADE Loader software to look at is the abandoned maxArcade prototype. (see sig for link to the MattairTech AVR)

There are currently three maxArcade firmwares:
  -- 4-player HID keyboard firmware
  -- 4-player HID joystick/buttons (digital)
  -- 2-player HID joystick/buttons (digital) with 4 analog axes per player (8 analog inputs total)


Scott

djfender

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Re: JVS-PAC in Reverse?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2015, 09:25:34 pm »
#
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 10:03:04 pm by djfender »
Is that a Sanwa in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

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SavannahLion

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Re: JVS-PAC in Reverse?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2015, 02:50:25 pm »
You're going to use 3 AVR8's for this?

Are doing that to get the two USB end points or to simplify your I/O code? That's going to be about $20 for small quantity 32U4 from Digikey. Not counting the supporting components.

Might be cheaper to consolidate the functions and go straight to ARM. A quick seach based strictly on I/O count and USB functionality reveals at least one package comparable to 3x32U4's  for $8 in single quantities.

Do what you want it's your board. But I would like to make one suggestion.

The JVC uses a USB port and is electrically different? If so, I would strongly reccomend moving it to it's own side away from the USB ports or using a different connector altogether. Three identical ports so close together with one potentially destroying something if it 's plugged in to the wrong cable is just asking for trouble.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 02:59:59 pm by SavannahLion »

djfender

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Re: JVS-PAC in Reverse?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2015, 07:22:20 am »
#
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 10:02:46 pm by djfender »
Is that a Sanwa in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

"Hotrodded" Hanaho Hotrod w/Kade MiniArcade 2.0 on Leonardo

SavannahLion

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Re: JVS-PAC in Reverse?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2015, 07:17:21 pm »
Where does the original control board draw its power from?

MonMotha

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Re: JVS-PAC in Reverse?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2015, 10:02:06 pm »
Honestly, I don't think there's much of a reason to use AVR at all for USB these days aside from the availability of legacy code.  It's quite an underpowered architecture by modern standards, though it was great in its heyday.  You can even get 5V ARMs, now, though 3.3V I/O is pretty well established at this point.

Modern ARMs are so fast that you can keep up with USB's timing requirements on high-speed (dozens of MHz) SPI I/O expanders without introducing any delays (sample on SOF and have the data ready in the EP buffer by the time you get your IN token), so you don't even have to worry about pin count if you want lots of discrete I/O.  Using I/O expanders would also free up the native MCU pins to use the MCU's onboard ADC.  Of course, you can also pretty trivially get ARMs in 144-pin QFP which are usually going to give you all the I/O you need.

There's certainly no reason to go about using multiple AVRs, I don't think.  If you do want to use an AVR, you might look into the larger 90USB646/647/1286/1287.  Not only are those 64-pin packages, so you start with more I/O, they have a true, native parallel bus on them.  I actually have an arcade I/O board using one of those micros (a 646) plus a bunch of 74 series buffers for zero-wait-state access to the entirety of JAMMA + kick inputs and something like 32 discrete outputs, too.  I would certainly consider it a legacy design, at this point, and would use an ARM if I were doing it now, though.

BTW, you might be aware that JVS uses USB cables, but it is not USB.  JVS is actually RS-485 UART.  The protocol spoken on top of the byte-framed UART is somewhat loosely defined, and I've never managed to get good, authoritative documentation on it.  There seems to be a reason why it's difficult or impossible to substitute a JVS I/O board and game PCB from one vendor to another which may be part of why it didn't catch on as much as JAMMA.

Oh, I also noticed that you want to do two players worth of USB slave.  This may complicate things a bit.  You can find ARMs that have two USB controllers, but they tend to be on the large size.  I've seen some -M4s though, I think.  The easiest method would be to use a USB composite device and expose two HID interfaces OR to just do a HID composite device and have separate usages for player 1 and player 2.  This won't let you plug them into separate USB ports, though, which may be problematic if you intend to use them with consoles (do any modern consoles realistically let you use "non-approved" HID devices?)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 10:12:59 pm by MonMotha »

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Re: JVS-PAC in Reverse?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2015, 11:04:12 pm »
As much as I dislike the idea I agree AVR is a dying animal. ATMEL isn't doing what they should to keep it relevant and just rehashing old silicon. The whole Arduino scene is helping keep it alive but the Arduino guys are morons, rediscovering "features" already known for years on the AVR.

If I use an AVR it's primarily because that IC has something that's hard to beat in the ARM package. For example, an AVR t828 sports a whopping 28 ADC channels but an ARM with that many ADC is about three times as much (albeit it's 16bits instead of the AVr's 10bit so they're not very comparable in that regard). The ARM is about four times as feature packed and double the IO but Ijust needed the ADC count and a bus.for $2 the t828 fit the bill nicely. That was back then when I first started the project, I might do it differently now.

It won't take much for me to shift to an ARM anymore. If I did the project again, I would give a closer look to analog IO expanders with an ARM.

djfender

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Re: JVS-PAC in Reverse?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2019, 07:21:56 pm »
#
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 10:00:58 pm by djfender »
Is that a Sanwa in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

"Hotrodded" Hanaho Hotrod w/Kade MiniArcade 2.0 on Leonardo

djfender

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Re: FenFen JVS based on IONA
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2019, 10:33:57 pm »
#
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 10:01:13 pm by djfender »
Is that a Sanwa in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

"Hotrodded" Hanaho Hotrod w/Kade MiniArcade 2.0 on Leonardo