Unicon Lives?

[Howard_Casto]

So for now this is just an idea so keep that in mind. 

A few years back I looked into a project that would make a USB adaptor that worked with ALL controllers for ALL systems (aka unicon).  The idea fell through, mostly because I wanted to make a product and the cost of connectors for the various systems would just make the whole thing impractical... not to mention the fact that I'm a novice at AVR programming. 

Well things have changed since then.  The arduino has hit and now you can find source code examples that aren't all assembly (which reads like stereo instructions to me).  In addition we have stuff like 3d printers and cnc machines, and mail away pcb manufacturing, so some of those hurdles aren't as big now. 

I stumbled across a nes/snes arduino sketch yesterday and it actually used an auto-detect method I mentioned in the old thread.... it works well.  I also found a sega Saturn sketch that works and proves to me that timing is inconsequential on the sega multiplexor chip.  That means I can do some shady stuff like wire two sega gamepads to the same connector and power one on at a time and read them... meaning I can run two sega gamepads on 10 pins instead of 18. 

The Saturn protocol is the same used for the genesis and mastersystem and "sort of" the same for the Atari vcs and "classic" systems.  The NES/SNES protocol is also used by the virtual boy.  So if I write my own auto-detect code and combine these two sketches that'll cover the master system, the genesis, the Saturn, the 2600, the c64 and all those oddball systems, the nes, the snes and the virtual boy.  That's a pretty good start!  If I modify things slightly, I can also add neogeo, which is just genesis with more pins instead of the multiplexor.  The tg16 has a different button layout, but it uses the genesis protocol as well. 

I'm going to work on it when I get a chance to sit down.  I already have some snes connectors lying around.  Sega and classic consoles just use a db9, which I also have lying around.  You can actually buy nes connectors at this point for 2 bucks a pop.  So I'm going to sit down and see what I can come up with. 

N64 and beyond requires "bit banging" which is just as scary as it sounds, but this early stuff.... yeah I think with the examples out there I can make something. 

[Slippyblade]

It sounds like you are re-inventing the new KADE.  Or am I reading your intent wrong?

[Howard_Casto]

Well it's nice to know they ripped off my idea, right down to the DB connector.  *sigh*

I'm still not sure if it matters though.  It looks like the minikade is only allowing one gamepad at a time and basically just the "main" gamepads right?  I'm going to support a minimum of two players per console and as many "oddball" controllers for each console as possible.  But this is no longer a commercial project anyway.

[ark_ader]

Well it's nice to know they ripped off my idea, right down to the DB connector.  *sigh*

You snooze you lose.   

[Malenko]

send me the files HC, and I can 3D print stuff for you.

[Howard_Casto]

Well it's nice to know they ripped off my idea, right down to the DB connector.  *sigh*

You snooze you lose.   

More like you underestimate how much people are willing to pay for something (the base model on the kickstarter is 98 bucks American) you loose. 

[Howard_Casto]

send me the files HC, and I can 3D print stuff for you.

Thanks man.  If I make it that far I'll let you know.

[yotsuya]

Go for it! There's no rule that says only one kind of device can exist. We'd be stuck with the Howler if that was the case. 

[Slippyblade]

If you can do two player in the $50 range, I'd buy...

[Howard_Casto]

Well because the hardware side of things seems to be the real cost I was thinking about doing it this way.  I'm going to write some code for a common avr since software is what I'm good at.  I'll build a prototype to make sure everything works and make the whole thing open-source, since I'm more interested in preserving the information than anything else.  (Some of the more obscure controllers for golden age systems are getting hard to find info on)

Now if somebody uses it and likes the end result they can slip me a fiver via paypal or something. 

I think my reaction might have thrown you guys off.... I'm actually glad there is a product out there that does this... that was the point of collecting all that info together in one place and explaining how to auto-detect various systems.  It just kind of sucks that there isn't any mention of my work, even if it wasn't the actual coding.  Maybe they were afraid I'd be angry or something.  Then again maybe they came up with the exact same idea...and the same methods and general hardware I/O layout.... it is possible. 

[ark_ader]

Then again maybe they came up with the exact same idea...and the same methods and general hardware I/O layout.... it is possible.

Sorry Howard, but that just tickled me pink.   

[sharpfork]

 

It just kind of sucks that there isn't any mention of my work, even if it wasn't the actual coding.  Maybe they were afraid I'd be angry or something.  Then again maybe they came up with the exact same idea...and the same methods and general hardware I/O layout.... it is possible.

Howard_Casto - I had no idea/project/ existed until I was sent this post a few minutes ago. Last time you posted was 2011 and I guess my analysis of the existing project/product space of original controller encoders was lacking. I'll ask Bootsector and Degenatrons as well.  If your project had any influence at all on ours, we at the very least owe you a shout out.

The idea for the KADE miniConsole+ encoder came from Bruno's retroPad adapters.  Moving from 9 pins to 15 pins was a no brainier because we wanted to add NeoGeo support (which used the db15) as well as other inputs and we needed more pins for autodetect.  We also do on the fly multi out including psx, wiimote, wii USB, original xBox, and PS3 out. 

As far as
 

exact same idea

your feature list looks much more like another recent device that had a Kickstarter than KADE but I know they have been working on their stuff for a long time too.  I know of a few other devices like this one that also do something like you were talking about.

If you have any questions, concerns, or even recommendations, let us know.  We are keeping KADE as a small open source project, not some big commercial product. 
BTW- are your hardware and software sources open and available at this point?

[bootsector]

...I'll ask Bootsector and Degenatrons as well.  If your project had any influence at all on ours, we at the very least owe you a shout out.

Never heard of him and his project until now. All he's getting from me is a "good luck" on his project.

[degenatrons]

miniConsole+ is an evolution of Boosector's existing retroPad adapter series merged with work we had previously done with miniArcade and KADE+,  a lot of which is documented on this site.  Xbox out support was added to miniArcade in the early days and was a key focus for us because of the Xbox/CoinOPS projects that me and Sharpfork were involved in and a better encoder was needed in this space.  We added PSX out to miniArcade so that folks could have arcade projects running on Playstation 1 & 2 and also use miniArcade with all of the available third-party output adapters. PS3 support came with the addition of USB/HID to miniArcade which originally supported only USB keyboard.  I could dig out links and explain the evolution in more depth but I don't have time at the moment.

The miniArcade is built around the minimus AVR (at90usb162, atmega32u2) and this has some limitations (no analog input,  limited number of inputs) so we made a switch to new hardware atmega32u4 and also set about making our own AVR development board.  We did a bunch of small projects before commiting ourselves to work on the miniConsole+.

DB15 was a no-brainer decision.  It just makes sense for us to use that connector when you consider the number of pins we need to expose, price/availability for makers, the other connector options,  and the fact that we are supporting DB15 Neo Geo.

We try to be transparent and our software and hardware is open source.  We will shout out to anyone who assists or helps us on our way. 

I wish you the best of luck with your project.

[Malenko]

Hi Kade Brigade! 

[ark_ader]

...I'll ask Bootsector and Degenatrons as well.  If your project had any influence at all on ours, we at the very least owe you a shout out.

Never heard of him and his project until now. All he's getting from me is a "good luck" on his project.

Howard floated this idea on Byoac ages ago, then took a hiatus with nothing being developed.  He had a really good idea, that got a lot of support here.  Unfortunately fledgling ideas, neither seeded or nurtured are safe.  I remember a really respected individual, stole another's idea (who sunk their personal savings and even opted for crowd funding) and incorporated it into an existing product, under the banner of competition other than innovation.  An act I believe that has forever damaged this hobby.

It made me laugh to think Howard's "idea" was floated by KADE.  The thought, though honest, is somewhat absurd, given the amount of transparency shown by the KADE team.

[SavannahLion]

Wow... still pretentious as ever.

Good luck.....

[Le Chuck]

This reminds me of that great scene from Baby Mama:

Carl is a inventor-slash-entrepreneur

Yeah. I'm still looking for that homerun, you know? I mean, when I saw the iPod the first time, I was like, you know, I could have kicked myself.

It was so hard on him.

Now we're pretty tight on cash.

[pbj]

Any reason Howard can't join the Kade team?

[Mr_Numbers]

Any reason Howard can't join the Kade team?

From the tone of the post, it sounds like he never asked.   

[johnm]

Paul Qureshi's retro adapter trounces you all 

http://denki.world3.net/

[pbj]

lol pwnt