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Author Topic: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".  (Read 12054 times)

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SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2015, 07:40:10 pm »
40" plasmas... 640x480 native xD

« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 07:41:41 pm by SailorSat »
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Howard_Casto

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2015, 07:49:46 pm »
Nice..... 

I see you are a fan of the 2x2 angle brackets as well.  I built an entire pacman replica cab with those things.... no glue anywhere so if anything ever rots I can replace it. 

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2015, 09:34:07 am »
[youtube]
[/youtube]
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Howard_Casto

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2015, 01:05:19 pm »
Man, that adds so much to the game.  It makes you wonder why the sega devs never implemented it. 

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2015, 01:51:40 pm »
They did for virtua racing and sega rally... most likely they hit a deadline and simply droped it :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Boomslang

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2015, 10:14:38 pm »
Will they ever work with less then 8 player setup? Ive only got a 4p setup :(

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2015, 03:42:09 am »
Aye, I'm working on getting the stuff universal.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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twistedsymphony

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2015, 03:27:07 pm »
Aye, I'm working on getting the stuff universal.

If you ever figure this out do you think you could take a look at the Model 2 version of CyberTroopers Virtual On?

There is video evidence of a Live Monitor feature shown at old arcade tournaments in Japan, however myself and a few others have tried to get a Live monitor setup working on the actual arcade boards but the feature is no where to be found (tested both both the USA and the Japan rom boards).

Live Monitor Mode is readily available on Model 3 versions of Virtual On Oratorio Tangram... but we haven't yet figured it out for the Model 2 prequel.

Here's an example of the Live Monitor mode in use on Model 2 VO back in Japan: https://youtu.be/dptjP5aHaNc

Howard_Casto

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2015, 03:55:07 pm »
Don't hold me to this, but judging by the stuff I saw when I was mucking about with ts2, some of the code is still in there... at least that would explain a lot.  I'll leave it to the master though.  ;)

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2015, 04:03:27 pm »
Most likely there is a special spectator version of the roms.
We'll see about that :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Barry Barcrest

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2015, 08:00:30 am »
The extra 2 monitors at the top really add to the experience.

Back in the day the arcade I visited that had 8 cars set up had a monitor showing the face of the lead driver. Each cab had a camera fitted and i assume the switch box somehow worked from the race leader lights. That was a pretty cool set up, but it never had the 2 screens like you have demonstrated.

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2015, 11:11:06 am »
Ah, sounds like the special type cabinet :)


The game actually sends a "ccd priority" signal to the switch box, but how the switchbox decided which camera to use is a unknown.
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Boomslang

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2015, 05:11:52 pm »
I heard something about a camera being fitted like that so cool to know it did exist.

I was considering doing something similar for my 4 cabs as right now I have them in 2 separate rooms

BigPanik

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2015, 06:48:01 pm »

The game actually sends a "ccd priority" signal to the switch box, but how the switchbox decided which camera to use is a unknown.

Regarding this video, first monitor show the race leader and a second change each 5 seconds cycling.




Barry Barcrest

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2015, 09:36:18 am »
Ah, sounds like the special type cabinet :)

The game actually sends a "ccd priority" signal to the switch box, but how the switchbox decided which camera to use is a unknown.

It could have been, I thought it was just something the arcade had rigged up themselves, didn't realise it actually existed as a factory option.

Andy_Bogard

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2015, 08:22:47 am »
I ckecked my drive boards and they work, so I am givin it a try !

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2015, 06:23:59 am »
After like a hundred requests for the adapters...


Hardware

I checked some wiring diagrams and it seems that there are a few common pinouts:
 - Model 1/2 (at least Daytona and Virtua Racing seem identical)
 - Model 2A/3 (although small differences on the button mapping)

I need to check the details on the 2B and 2C, most likely they are common to either 2A or 3
That means I should be able to design an "interface" board that can be put into any Sega Model-X Racer.

Also someone noted that the "newer" Sega Racers might work too, although with some slight modifications (MIDI and/or RS-442 serial instead of 8bit parallel)


Firmware

I've tinkered around with the arduino part, and most likely will replace them with teensy2++ sooner or later.

For the time being I developed a new firmware for the MEGAs that works as plain usb gamepad (like unojoy does) - it features only the controls provided by the daytona (4* axis with full 10bit resolution, 24* buttons) AND is able to receive lamps and drive commands via usb itself.

I call it Daytona USB ;)
* 4 axis = X (A0 - Wheel), Y (fixed value), Z (A1 - Gas), Z-Rot (A2 - Brake)
* 24 Buttons
 = 1-8 -> VR1, VR2, VR3, VR4, START, SERVICE, TEST, COIN
 = 9-16 -> SHIFT0, SHIFT1, SHIFT2, GEAR1, GEAR2, GEAR3, GEAR4, NEUTRAL
 = 17-24 -> future use (like RX port on the I/O-Board)

Mapping for Button 9-16 will most likely change in the future, as there is no actual need to have both SHIFT- and GEAR- Inputs - And we are currently missing the "special inputs" (EX.START, EMERGENCY, COURSE0, COURSE1).

I plan to add some "dip switch" style options (initial values on hardware, overridable via software).
- Currently implemented is a "Shifter Decoder" Toggle - If turned ON, the SHIFT inputs (Buttons 9-11) are always off, and the shifter gets decoded to the individual gears (Button 12-16)
[WingWar uses the shifter lines for the fire buttons]

- "alternate axis layout" switch: For cabinets like WingWar it would be better to use X (A0), Y (A1), Z (A2) and RZ (fix value), as many "non arcade" flight simulators have trouble mapping axis correctly.

- "sequencial shifter" switch: For cabinets like Indy 500, to shift up and down in Daytona

- "sequencial views" switch: For cabinets like Indy 500 (or even Sega Rally) with less than 4 view buttons.


Software
Because of "Daytona USB" the software side is getting smaller (and simpler) - No more need for a virtual joystick driver - Just plug in the USB cord and you're done.

The "Driver"-App is starting to become obsolete:
- the old version (serial and vJoy) has been updated to fix some weird "invalid handle" errors
- the new version (USB) will be merged into the "Feedback"-App soon.

The "Feedback"-App will be extended:
- currently still needs a seperate driver app.
- I've added support for SuperModel (svn 274 x86 only*) featuring both Dayonta2 (BotE / PE) as well as SCUD (Australia / Export) and SCUD Plus.
- user-configurable command translator -> Currently the App will translate anything to a reduced** Dayonta / Indy500 command set.
- games to be added: Hard Drivin (just found the drive board controls *yeah*)
- ability to switch the "dip switch" settings on the "Daytona USB" board depending on running game.

* as the app is (for now) written in 32bit VB6, I cannot read the process modules of a 64bit application, which I need to calculate the offsets.
**(I kill the 0x90-0x9F commands, as they don't work on an Indy 500 drive board; used by Daytona USA for the moving seats)


Other stuff
As far as I know there are only two common motor setups used for the Sega Racers:
- "clutched" AC-Motor (Virtua Racing, Daytona USA, Sega Rally)
- "direct" AC-Motor (Indy 500 and later)

It seems the "clutched" setup uses springs to center the wheel by itself while the "direct" setup does center by software.

The command (group) 0x10 (to 0x1F) is used to "let the spring do it's job" - which gets done in software on a setup without spring.
Now the games designed for the "spring" setup only know one "force" while the games designed for the "no spring" setup have up to 16 different - which I cannot reproduce on a "spring" setup (I'll just let the spring do it's job, no matter what).

Are there any other motor setups I need to take care of?
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


ABACABB

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2015, 04:55:59 pm »
Just to be clear, does this mean you will create these boards and have them available for sale?? (fingers crossed)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 05:31:53 pm by ABACABB »

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2015, 05:42:28 am »
There might be complete kits available, yeah.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


xga

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2015, 09:27:15 am »
After like a hundred requests for the adapters...


Hardware

I checked some wiring diagrams and it seems that there are a few common pinouts:
 - Model 1/2 (at least Daytona and Virtua Racing seem identical)
 - Model 2A/3 (although small differences on the button mapping)

I need to check the details on the 2B and 2C, most likely they are common to either 2A or 3
That means I should be able to design an "interface" board that can be put into any Sega Model-X Racer.

Also someone noted that the "newer" Sega Racers might work too, although with some slight modifications (MIDI and/or RS-442 serial instead of 8bit parallel)


Firmware

I've tinkered around with the arduino part, and most likely will replace them with teensy2++ sooner or later.

For the time being I developed a new firmware for the MEGAs that works as plain usb gamepad (like unojoy does) - it features only the controls provided by the daytona (4* axis with full 10bit resolution, 24* buttons) AND is able to receive lamps and drive commands via usb itself.

I call it Daytona USB ;)
* 4 axis = X (A0 - Wheel), Y (fixed value), Z (A1 - Gas), Z-Rot (A2 - Brake)
* 24 Buttons
 = 1-8 -> VR1, VR2, VR3, VR4, START, SERVICE, TEST, COIN
 = 9-16 -> SHIFT0, SHIFT1, SHIFT2, GEAR1, GEAR2, GEAR3, GEAR4, NEUTRAL
 = 17-24 -> future use (like RX port on the I/O-Board)

Mapping for Button 9-16 will most likely change in the future, as there is no actual need to have both SHIFT- and GEAR- Inputs - And we are currently missing the "special inputs" (EX.START, EMERGENCY, COURSE0, COURSE1).

I plan to add some "dip switch" style options (initial values on hardware, overridable via software).
- Currently implemented is a "Shifter Decoder" Toggle - If turned ON, the SHIFT inputs (Buttons 9-11) are always off, and the shifter gets decoded to the individual gears (Button 12-16)
[WingWar uses the shifter lines for the fire buttons]

- "alternate axis layout" switch: For cabinets like WingWar it would be better to use X (A0), Y (A1), Z (A2) and RZ (fix value), as many "non arcade" flight simulators have trouble mapping axis correctly.

- "sequencial shifter" switch: For cabinets like Indy 500, to shift up and down in Daytona

- "sequencial views" switch: For cabinets like Indy 500 (or even Sega Rally) with less than 4 view buttons.


Software
Because of "Daytona USB" the software side is getting smaller (and simpler) - No more need for a virtual joystick driver - Just plug in the USB cord and you're done.

The "Driver"-App is starting to become obsolete:
- the old version (serial and vJoy) has been updated to fix some weird "invalid handle" errors
- the new version (USB) will be merged into the "Feedback"-App soon.

The "Feedback"-App will be extended:
- currently still needs a seperate driver app.
- I've added support for SuperModel (svn 274 x86 only*) featuring both Dayonta2 (BotE / PE) as well as SCUD (Australia / Export) and SCUD Plus.
- user-configurable command translator -> Currently the App will translate anything to a reduced** Dayonta / Indy500 command set.
- games to be added: Hard Drivin (just found the drive board controls *yeah*)
- ability to switch the "dip switch" settings on the "Daytona USB" board depending on running game.

* as the app is (for now) written in 32bit VB6, I cannot read the process modules of a 64bit application, which I need to calculate the offsets.
**(I kill the 0x90-0x9F commands, as they don't work on an Indy 500 drive board; used by Daytona USA for the moving seats)


Other stuff
As far as I know there are only two common motor setups used for the Sega Racers:
- "clutched" AC-Motor (Virtua Racing, Daytona USA, Sega Rally)
- "direct" AC-Motor (Indy 500 and later)

It seems the "clutched" setup uses springs to center the wheel by itself while the "direct" setup does center by software.

The command (group) 0x10 (to 0x1F) is used to "let the spring do it's job" - which gets done in software on a setup without spring.
Now the games designed for the "spring" setup only know one "force" while the games designed for the "no spring" setup have up to 16 different - which I cannot reproduce on a "spring" setup (I'll just let the spring do it's job, no matter what).

Are there any other motor setups I need to take care of?

Hey SailorSat,

Thanks for the update and love what you are doing.

Are you able to explain the pros and cons with this USB Arduino adapter vs using a L2M2 interface, please?  I see the benefit of being able to use multiple emulators, even PC games with the L2M2 interface, I'm not sure if this USB ardunio can do that?

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2015, 10:38:30 am »
Are you able to explain the pros and cons with this USB Arduino adapter vs using a L2M2 interface, please?  I see the benefit of being able to use multiple emulators, even PC games with the L2M2 interface, I'm not sure if this USB ardunio can do that?
I'll try :)

Pros
  • simple plug-in adapter for the cabinets - no need to change any wires (+ you can put your original boards back at any time)
  • use of the original force feedback controller in the cabinet - this is a close as you can get to the "real feeling"
  • can handle the lamps .) - l2m2 does not
  • works with any sega wheel setup

Cons
  • does NOT support generic force feedback applications (like the L2M2 does)
  • feedback (either force or lamps) will only work with a list of specific games/emulatores

I think the L2M2 is a nice adapter if you plan on playing basically anything (FlatOut2 anyone? ^^)
I actually built 11 of em and tinkered around with the "best" settings for a long time...
I even added some capacitors to the CLUTCH-Lines to get a "smoother" feedback.

However I still believe a L2M2 modified Daytona feels "different" from a "real" Daytona.
Some effects like a plain "clutch" don't seem to work with a L2M2.

Also if I remember correctly, the L2M2 only works with the original Daytona style setup (free running AC Motor + Clutch).

« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 10:47:15 am by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


terminator2k2

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2015, 12:42:02 pm »
do you sell the L2M2 boards sailorsat? as ive been asked a few times where to get them....

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2015, 01:14:59 pm »
Already sold most of them, sorry :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Andy_Bogard

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2015, 03:51:04 am »
there is this guy called thebassprophet on gamoover in France making en selling them, you should try to contact him!

do you sell the L2M2 boards sailorsat? as ive been asked a few times where to get them....

Andy_Bogard

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2015, 04:01:55 am »
SailorSat,

So basicly your work is pretty the same as Big panik's on gamoover?

http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=33274.0




xga

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2015, 10:04:48 am »
Are you able to explain the pros and cons with this USB Arduino adapter vs using a L2M2 interface, please?  I see the benefit of being able to use multiple emulators, even PC games with the L2M2 interface, I'm not sure if this USB ardunio can do that?
I'll try :)

Pros
  • simple plug-in adapter for the cabinets - no need to change any wires (+ you can put your original boards back at any time)
  • use of the original force feedback controller in the cabinet - this is a close as you can get to the "real feeling"
  • can handle the lamps .) - l2m2 does not
  • works with any sega wheel setup

Cons
  • does NOT support generic force feedback applications (like the L2M2 does)
  • feedback (either force or lamps) will only work with a list of specific games/emulatores

I think the L2M2 is a nice adapter if you plan on playing basically anything (FlatOut2 anyone? ^^)
I actually built 11 of em and tinkered around with the "best" settings for a long time...
I even added some capacitors to the CLUTCH-Lines to get a "smoother" feedback.

However I still believe a L2M2 modified Daytona feels "different" from a "real" Daytona.
Some effects like a plain "clutch" don't seem to work with a L2M2.

Also if I remember correctly, the L2M2 only works with the original Daytona style setup (free running AC Motor + Clutch).



Thanks for the explanation, SailorSat.  Sounds impressive.

So the YouTube video of Outrun is using the Arduino USB adapter running Mame on a PC and shaking the wheel (not actual FFB) when the car crashes?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RYWQKtg7ZVk

What emulators will this support?  Mame, Model 2 Emulator, SuperModel?  Anything else?

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2015, 11:54:58 am »
Thanks for the explanation, SailorSat.  Sounds impressive.

So the YouTube video of Outrun is using the Arduino USB adapter running Mame on a PC and shaking the wheel (not actual FFB) when the car crashes?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RYWQKtg7ZVk

What emulators will this support?  Mame, Model 2 Emulator, SuperModel?  Anything else?

Any that matters ^^

Well... That outrun is not just shaking - It is using the "move cabinet" information.
If you turn the wheel to the right and step on gas, the cabinet would move to the left -> the wheel starts "pushing" to the left.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


xga

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2015, 03:55:15 am »
There might be complete kits available, yeah.

Awesome.  I'd be interested in at least four of the kits when they're available.

BigPanik

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2015, 10:15:57 am »
SailorSat,

So basicly your work is pretty the same as Big panik's on gamoover?

http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=33274.0

Yes it's the same idea.  :cheers:

To resume "howto interface SEGA wheel":




SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2015, 11:22:38 am »
So basicly your work is pretty the same as Big panik's on gamoover?
http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=33274.0
Yes it's the same idea.  :cheers:
My adapter is based on BigPaniks work :) We use different "driver" software though.

Hm... I wonder why they didn't use the new wheels for Sega Racing Classic :)

P.S. I just had to smile... vJoy FFB support :) - I just droped my vJoy Feeder in favor of a HID interface :D
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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BigPanik

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2015, 03:34:31 pm »

Hm... I wonder why they didn't use the new wheels for Sega Racing Classic :)


It's precisely this detail that has set me thinking. SEGA Racing Classic is just Model 2 Emulator Ringwide conversion, and they used the same tips than us for FFB/lamps.

terminator2k2

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2015, 06:04:01 pm »
they probably had a warehouse full of them, and instead of dumping them in the sea, they put them to use...

Dico13

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2015, 06:13:17 am »
There might be complete kits available, yeah.
Hi SailorSat,
Great work you have been doing, how far away do you think you are away from being able to supply a turn key/plug in kit? Also do you know a ballpark figure that these kits will cost? I have 4 machines I've been wanting to convert but don't have the tech skills.

BigPanik

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2015, 04:02:40 pm »
Interesting note: the m2emulator is running too fast! If I run daytona on real hardware and the emulation side by side, the emulator is slightly faster. I suspect that is a 58Hz (original) vs. 60Hz (emulation) thing. Even the music plays slightly faster.


I have made a video to show the problem:
https://youtu.be/SMdcXJE5RQw
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 04:04:20 pm by BigPanik »

xga

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2015, 05:47:29 pm »
Interesting note: the m2emulator is running too fast! If I run daytona on real hardware and the emulation side by side, the emulator is slightly faster. I suspect that is a 58Hz (original) vs. 60Hz (emulation) thing. Even the music plays slightly faster.


I have made a video to show the problem:
https://youtu.be/SMdcXJE5RQw

Could you use something like Calamity's CRT_EMUDRIVER to set the vertical refresh rate to 58Hz to fix the speed issue?

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2015, 04:40:49 am »
Could you use something like Calamity's CRT_EMUDRIVER to set the vertical refresh rate to 58Hz to fix the speed issue?
You'll get sound problems then :(
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2015, 05:21:21 am »
Back to topic - Model3 proof-of-concept done. (I guess BigPanik did it years ago :D)

I visited a friend who happens to own a scud race twin - As expected, the same setup works with Model3 out of the box.

we have a fair share of "wtf" moments though:
- we used a SCUD RACE drive board, and for some reason, SCUD RACE in SuperModel does NOT activate FFB in ADVANCED and EXPERT course.
[scud sends C6 (mode 6) to the drive board, which the drive board does seem to ignore?? - "translating" C6 to C7 made the feedback work]

- although it does work pretty well, there is flaw. each model3 drive board has a special ROM, and as it turned out, the commands 0x0* (I'll call em "EFFECTS") differ between games (others are fine).
scud and dayonta2 use "EFFECTS" when "bumping" into other cars.
At first glance they just "feel" different - however in some cases, scud "effects" stop all feedback for a brief moment - this makes daytona2 nearly unplayable as the feedback keep turning on and off when touching anything or drifting.
In the end we just filtered out 0x0* - which removed any "bumps" from scud and daytona2, but still makes a very nice experience.

Some day I need to try out every single effect on both drive board setups. maybe we can just translate some effects up and down.

In the end:
- model3 works (except effects for now) fine with scud and daytona2 (didn't test the other games yet [need to look up offsets], lemans24 and sega rally2 need to be translated for sure)
- the model3 drive boards handle "uncentering" in a different way than model2 drive boards do. [m2 uncentering keeps turning the wheel away from the center until the next command; m3 uncentering turns off after about 2 seconds]
- the model3 drive boards have a "vibration" command (0x3*) which model2 drive boards do not have.

we played virtua racing, daytona, sega rally, indy500, stcc, scud and daytona2 without problems.

(sorry for the mess, we just hooked up a teensy with some hot glue to a spare filter board)




Off-Topic - my friend changed all of his CRTs with 32" LCDs - and I have to admit, did a great job.
I didn't expect a 32" LCD to fit in a twin :D




He also happens to own these...
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


xga

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #77 on: December 08, 2015, 08:12:41 am »
Could you use something like Calamity's CRT_EMUDRIVER to set the vertical refresh rate to 58Hz to fix the speed issue?
You'll get sound problems then :(

Hmmm.

I did a bit of investigating on the vertical refresh rate of model 2 games myself.  I plugged in my Extron RGB interface to the video signal of one of my Daytona cabinets and got the following result :



I then tried loading the Daytona rom in Groovymame and that detected the vertical refresh rate at 57.524160Hz (Sega Rally Championship displayed the exact same result too).  If the Model 2 Emulator is displaying model 2 games at 60Hz, that is over 4% faster than the original arcade hardware, quite a significant difference in my opinion. 

If setting the default resolution and vertical refresh rate of the computer with CRT_EMUDRIVER to 496x384 @ 57.524160Hz causes the game to operate at the correct speed but the sound to be messed up, what are the options to fix this?  Would it require the Model 2 Emulator developer to add support for the correct vertical refresh rate so that the game runs at it's original speed?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 08:15:52 am by xga »

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2015, 11:10:50 am »
I then tried loading the Daytona rom in Groovymame and that detected the vertical refresh rate at 57.524160Hz (Sega Rally Championship displayed the exact same result too).  If the Model 2 Emulator is displaying model 2 games at 60Hz, that is over 4% faster than the original arcade hardware, quite a significant difference in my opinion. 

If setting the default resolution and vertical refresh rate of the computer with CRT_EMUDRIVER to 496x384 @ 57.524160Hz causes the game to operate at the correct speed but the sound to be messed up, what are the options to fix this?  Would it require the Model 2 Emulator developer to add support for the correct vertical refresh rate so that the game runs at it's original speed?

Hm... A "hack" to change the playback speed of the audio from 48000hz to 46000hz (48000 / 60 * 57,5) may fix the sounds buffer underrun. However, thats just a hack, not a correct fix :)

As long as the m2em source code is not available (to the public), we most likely will not see a fix for that issue anytime soon.
There are other issues too - at least two in the network code - that need to be fixed :(
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2015, 02:35:37 pm »
It's quite frustrating because there are things I would like to get in there and fix as well, particularly on the output side of things.  I'm even skittish about hacks now.  I spent months on troubleshooter 2 finding all the needed memory locations only to get another release of the emulator soon after, which makes the hack incompatible. 

  
 

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