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Author Topic: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".  (Read 17182 times)

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SailorSat

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Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« on: April 18, 2015, 07:41:43 am »
Hi Guys,

I've started to convert my Daytona USA Twins (actually got 3 of em right now, 4th on the way) to PCs without modifying the original wiring.





I got bored of my Daytona Boardsets dying over and over again, so I swaped them with PCs.

I used an Arduino (MEGA 2560) to interface the PC to the cabinet. - None of the original wiring was cut/modified, so I can put a real Boardset back in there at any time.

Big ThankYou goes to BigPanik for the initial idea and "proof of concept" of using an Arduino in the first place :)



1. - I removed the CPU Board cage by unpluging all the connectors and removing two screws that hold the cage in place. Then I "moved" the cables going to the back of the base to the center.



2. - As the PC will generate the sounds, I disconnected the power cables going to the sound board (1 connector) and audio cables (2 pairs of connectors) from the amp board and pluged in a standard pc audio cable in there.

3. - I disconnected all cables on the sega power supply (1x AC, 1x Main Power, 1x Aux Power) and pluged in a handmade power cord for the PC instead.

4. - I built an adapter board which provides several connectors for the original cabling:
  • 10p (1x10) for AUX power. This line usually powers the I/O board inside the cage, but I will use it to provide power to the drive board instead.
  • 5p (1x5) for video.
  • 50p (2x25) for buttons, lamps, shifter.
  • 26p (2x13) for the pedals and wheel pot.
  • 11p (1x11) for sending commands to the drive board.
  • Pin-Header for the Arduino Mega2560
  • VGA for video
  • 5V and GND for power

5. - I put a standard PC in the place the original board cage was located at.
  • The VGA is connected to the adapter board.
  • Audio runs from a 3.5mm connector to the RCA jacks on the sega amp board.
  • One USB line feeds the Arduino Mega2560
  • 5V and GND line to the adapter board.



6. - I unscrewed one of the TOSLINK jacks on the back of the cabinet and used that hole to get a standard RJ45 network cable in there.




7. - The firmware on the Arduino Mega2560 does two things:
 * read pots, read buttons, read and decode the shifter (3 wires, 5 states)
 * write commands to the drive board, drive the "lamp driver" IC to switch on and off the lamps etc.

8. - I currently use vJoy to create a virtual Joystick device, which gets updated with the data supplied by the Arduino. A small tool (for the moment) checks which game is currently running, reads the commands and lamp data from memory and feeds them to the Arduino. It also filters out "bad commands" and translates various command types (for example OutRun deluxe movements).

9. - software wise I run XP64 on Core2Duo (2,1GHz), 1GB RAM, ATI HD4650. I use Soft-15kHz to feed the monitors with 25kHz video signal at native resolution of 496x384.



The software was "developed", using slightly modified hardware approach, on my Indy500 deluxe cabinet.

Intersting note: the m2emulator is running too fast! If I run daytona on real hardware and the emulation side by side, the emulator is slightly faster. I suspect that is a 58Hz (original) vs. 60Hz (emulation) thing. Even the music plays slightly faster.

There is also a new version of vJoy in development that does support force feeback on the windows side. So in theory I could translate the windows force feedback commands to the sega drive board and play pc games with force feeback too.



Another interesting fact...
4 units are "Daytona USA classic", the 3rd generation released. They are made of steel/plastic and have red seats.
2 units are "Daytona USA", the 1st generation released. They are made of wood and have black seats.
As far as I know there is another version - I'll call it 2nd generation - which is made of steel/plastic already but still features the "Daytona USA" topper and black seats.

I noticed the wood cabinet and the steel cabinets have a different setup of boards and wiring.
At first my adapter seemed to fit both setups perfectly. But I soon discovered some differences.

The wood cabinet for some reason has 4 "split" +5V rails, where the steel cabinet has only 2 rails.
This becomes even more strange as the Power Supply only has 2 rails for +5V.
V2 = +5V Aux (Sound Board, Drive Board, I/O Board), V4 = +5V CPU (CPU Board, Video Board)

Sadly, the I/O Board and the Drive Board are on different rails - I "hacked" the wiring by connecting both +5V Aux rails.

The other strange difference is the power for the CPU Board FAN.
On the wood cabinets the FANs are actually 12V wired (RED @ Pin 5). On the (later) steel cabinets, there are 5V wired (YELLOW @ Pin 5).
To "fix" that, I had to remove Pin 5 from my adapter board - otherwise I would have fed +5V on the +12V rail.
In conclusion it is NOT possible to swap board cages from one cabinet to another without paying attention to the FAN voltage... You might fry your 5V FANs.





Most of the screen (Nanao MS9-29U) worked out of the box - although they were quite dark.




MAME - Virtua Racing on a Daytona USA Twin (and Daytona)
MAME - OutRun on Indy 500 (with working FFB)
M2Emulator - Daytona USA on Indy 500 Deluxe Cabinet
MAME - Virtua Racing on Indy 500 Deluxe Cabinet
M2Emulator - Sega Indy 500 Deluxe Cabinet




« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 06:09:03 pm by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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SegaOutrun

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2015, 05:53:39 pm »
im intrigued on how you got the controls to interface with the pc and the video as well. i look forward to the info.

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 01:10:01 pm »
updated first post
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 01:33:59 pm »
 :notworthy:

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2015, 04:43:40 am »
:notworthy:

Hahaha, reminds me of waynes world .)

We're not Worthy!!!!
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2015, 05:20:35 am »
RESPECT!!

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2015, 06:10:36 pm »
pics are up
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2015, 01:23:10 am »
reminds me of waynes world .)
You can join us for best cert killer PCNSE6 dumps oracle training solutions.

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2015, 03:33:23 pm »
You're truly magnificent SailorSat!  :notworthy:

We also have an 8 player in our arcade where the boards keep dying on us, very frustrating. Now down to 6 and lots of defective boards on a pile.

Can you produce them and sell them as kits? We would really be interested and I think a lot of people worldwide will. Thnx for sharing and making it happen in the first place!


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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 07:36:53 am »
Over the weekend I saw this YouTube vid showing all the internals of a Daytona twins cab. I never realized that Daytona was so complex, and required so many boards.

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 07:25:27 am »
That is a pretty decent video :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Malenko

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 10:21:23 am »
so is it somehow possible for you to play Daytona USA on a real board set against a PC in a set of your twins?

Stellar work as always.  :applaud:
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SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2015, 06:42:25 am »
so is it somehow possible for you to play Daytona USA on a real board set against a PC in a set of your twins?

Stellar work as always.  :applaud:

In theorie, yes. But didn't bother to try yet.
I did interface the comm board to a PC some time ago. ( http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=333324 )
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2015, 03:16:22 pm »
Wow i didn't realize the Model 2 hardware was so prone to failure. What is it that causes them to fail so regularly like that?

Very cool setup non-the less.

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2015, 04:55:24 pm »
I think the failure rate on them is so high because the fans often fail in the base of the cabs and boards overheat.

Sailorsat : Amazing work on this! Are you planning to release the Arduino sketch?

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2015, 07:57:05 pm »
Problem #1 - Overheating (probably because of fans running slow or dying)
Problem #2 - Liquids; some people keep their drinks ON the base...
Problem #3 - Shock; some people seem to slam the cabinets all over the place...

Most likely a combination of #1 and #3

---

As for the arduino sketch:
Well I'm still tinkering with it on a regular basis. But I should have something available soon.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2015, 07:59:46 am »
Problem #1 - Overheating (probably because of fans running slow or dying)
Problem #2 - Liquids; some people keep their drinks ON the base...
Problem #3 - Shock; some people seem to slam the cabinets all over the place...

Most likely a combination of #1 and #3

---

As for the arduino sketch:
Well I'm still tinkering with it on a regular basis. But I should have something available soon.

Agreed on all those points of failure, then the other issue is repairs.  Often it's the 3d chip that fails and there are no replacements available :(

Can't wait for the Arduino sketch, my L2M2 boards have never worked right and i've killed no less than 5 Logitech Driving Force PCBs whilst tinkering with settings!

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2015, 09:08:09 am »
Problem #1 - Overheating (probably because of fans running slow or dying)
Problem #2 - Liquids; some people keep their drinks ON the base...
Problem #3 - Shock; some people seem to slam the cabinets all over the place...

Most likely a combination of #1 and #3

Good to know. I'm glad one of the first things I did with my VO cab was replace the fans on the Model 2 boards. Sounds like something I should plan on doing if I ever get another model 2 game.

As for the arduino sketch:
Well I'm still tinkering with it on a regular basis. But I should have something available soon.

I'm assuming it's designed specifically to work with Model 2 Emulator, or is it more generic? could it work with a PC game to allow FFB with a Daytona steering setup? It'd be great to have an Arduino based FFB setup that could interface any FFB pc game to arcade controls.

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2015, 12:01:24 pm »
I'm assuming it's designed specifically to work with Model 2 Emulator, or is it more generic?
No. There are actually 4 components involved atm.

1. the arduino sketch itself - it just reads its inputs every 16ms and writes a bitstream to the PC. also, any data send TO the arduino (from the PC)  will be used to drive the lamps or the drive board.

2. vJoy - a virtual joystick framework.

3. the "controller" app - this reads the arduino bitstream and feeds the virtual joystick. this also "waits" for feedback and lamp data (actually from anywhere - which is great for debugging)

4. the "feedback" app - this is where the "magic" happens; a rather simple tool that check which processes are running (currently MAME and M2EM are supported); once a known process is found, the active game is checked, and (if supported by this tool), the lamp and/or feedback data gets read out and (if necessary) translated/filtered (i.E. OutRun-to-Daytona).

---

most of the development is currently happening on the "feedback" app, as I have various driving boards (dayonta, indy500dx) etc, which all use a slightly different setup. and behave a little different.

for example:
daytona uses an AC motor [running full speed] and a clutch to transfer the power
indy500 uses an AC motor [running at various speeds] DIRECTLY attached to the wheel.

both boards use their own firmware, and both behave differently to various of the feedback commands.

---

could it work with a PC game to allow FFB with a Daytona steering setup? It'd be great to have an Arduino based FFB setup that could interface any FFB pc game to arcade controls.

there is a new version of vjoy in development that actually does support force feedback on windows side, so it should be possible to translate the win-feedback to a daytona (or anything else).

---

in theory you can drive pretty much anything with that arduino tool. I've added a "jumper" in the sketch, so you can use the "shifter" input as 3 regular buttons or as 5-state sega shifter. (I also use that setup to drive my WingWar which uses the shifter inputs as fire buttons)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2015, 10:55:49 am »
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=333324

I don't post much over there, but here is my favorite quote from the original thread you started:

Quote from: R Belmont
> So the actual question is - Is there actualy anything I can do?

Not really. Sorry.

Less than two months later you post this pic.  :laugh2:





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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2015, 11:06:15 am »
"those were the days..." ^^ - still a long way to go .)

but i remember seeing those racers on ebay for like 100 bucks because nobody would repair the boards and noone wanted those 25kHz monitors...

going to get my last daytona twin on friday for like 600 bucks... (and a sega rally twin)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2015, 07:45:13 am »
Woah... That is some kind of Franken-Twin... Left half is a japanese v3, right half is a european v2, topper is from an old wooden daytona... cables in the back are from a sega rally... none the less... i got my 8 daytona setup complete.
expect a software upload later this day. (and images) ^^
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2015, 04:25:30 pm »
https://youtube.com/devicesupport


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq3Om3cxrGU
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2015, 07:08:56 pm »
hmm video not working for me sailorsat. Says something about device support

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2015, 07:22:18 pm »
Try the link, it works. 

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2015, 07:26:08 pm »
ah didn't see that.

Thanks Howard.

Looks awesome SailorSat, Im jealous as hell.

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2015, 07:31:32 pm »
She just needs to take the s off of https and the video will embed
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2015, 07:36:28 pm »
Part #1 - Arduino sketch.
https://github.com/SailorSat/daytona-utils/tree/master/DaytonaArduino

this is a very simple sketch. no (complicated) logic, no magic.
if anyone wants a more advanced version, try asking bigpanik for model2pac :)

I'll clean some code and upload my pc side tools later on.
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2015, 07:38:56 pm »
Eh? lemme try that...


Code: [Select]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmqODFxYCHM
---EDIT---
Nope. works fine in preview, but disappears once posted :(
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2015, 07:52:19 pm »
youtube recently changed their stuff. 

Don't use the youtube link, use the youtu.be (or whatever) link in the "share" part of the video's page instead and change the https to http.  That works for me at least.

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2015, 09:47:36 pm »


looks good Ariane!
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2015, 08:42:52 am »
Nice work Ariane!

I'm going to do the same job into my cabs.

How do you solve screen darkness? By using video amplifier?

An idea to adjust the video speed? Could you add some "NOP" into the code? :)



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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2015, 09:15:52 am »
Nice work Ariane!

I'm going to do the same job into my cabs.

How do you solve screen darkness? By using video amplifier?

An idea to adjust the video speed? Could you add some "NOP" into the code? :)

I adjusted every monitor by hand - I had to fine tune all of them anyway :)
I can add some NOPs, but I don't believe the framerate impact will be too high.

I'm currently developing a "fake" master to get rid of those hiccups/desyncs. But that is another story .)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2015, 06:53:52 pm »
Magic :D
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2015, 10:09:39 pm »
  :applaud:
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ABACABB

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2015, 02:50:17 pm »

twistedsymphony

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2015, 01:08:41 pm »
please tell me those are live spectator monitors up top.

SailorSat

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2015, 05:58:31 pm »
They are.
And I noticed I never uploaded a video of the final version too, so expect a new video soon :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2015, 06:33:07 pm »
***JEALOUS***

Looks awesome!! 

Have you had any 8 Player Races yet? I bet you will have a grin the whole time

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Re: Daytona USA - Converting a Twin cabinet "correctly".
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2015, 07:17:20 pm »
Man I bet that song plays in your head on a constant loop at this point.  That's 12 pounds of awesome in a 8 pound bag.  Those spectators monitors are really big, but thin and 4:3... what the heck are you using?

  
 

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