Author Topic: Howler goes into program mode (Read 11535 times)

JesseA · « **on:** March 28, 2015, 11:00:52 am »

Hello,

I've been having a problem with my Howler controller board and wanted to see if others had the same issue.

The problem is the board will go into program mode on it's own sometimes when I shutdown my arcade (windows 7).

The only fix is to re flash the hex file with flip as per this video

I emailed Josh and was told you have to unplug the USB before shutting down to prevent any problems.

This isn't really a problem for me but since this arcade is my brothers (who isn't very technical) I get a call 1-3 times a month to help fix his arcade.

Thanks for your time

SavannahLion · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2015, 11:35:53 am »

The developer of the Howler has avoided following through with his promises at making his source available . That means it would be difficult to diagnose the problem. I suggest not using the Howler in future projects because his attitude is less than stellar.

I'm not inclined to dig much into it but on the surface of it, it sounds like either his reset circuit is crap, his brownout fuses are incorrectly set, or his USB code is useless. I use AVRs power cycling through USB day in and day out on some truly crap power supplies and I have never had my AVR go into programming mode unless I wanted them too.

Since trying to figure out the root cause would be a hassle, all i can suggest is a physical switch that disconnects the USB and powers down the PC.

JesseA · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2015, 01:34:53 pm »

Thanks for the input Savannah, I think your right. I've also worked with various AVRs and found it odd that it goes into program mode unprovoked. It happens with both Howlers I have so it's not just a one off problem it seems.

I was hoping to avoid more switches but I agree it's the quickest fix.

ChanceKJ · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2015, 05:59:22 pm »

Josh has offered tech support via email in the past. But lets be honest, the guy's attitude is far less then stellar, he gives a bad name to the rest of us in this city. Good luck, i really hope you get help and feel you received the value for the money you spent.

Quote from: engg100 on April 21, 2014, 07:26:28 pm

@yotsuya: Wolfware will be providing any technical support required. I have answered many questions already and will continue to. Email me directly josh.wolf@wolfwaretech.com for any questions or concerns. There are no dumb questions and I will try to answer as fast as possible.

Josh

JesseA · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2015, 12:16:37 pm »

Just wanted to follow up on this... The Howler is still problematic. I emailed Josh and he got back to me quickly, no real help though. I was told to change the USB cable to no avail (I had already tried 3 different ones). Josh said he would send me a new Board if I sent him the "problem" one. In the end I figure it's not worth the time to swap boards since I already have a second howler from Paradise Arcades "4 player lite bundle" that I've swapped and it also has the same problem.

Your mileage my vary but from my experience I would not waste the time or money on the Howler.

P.S- ChanceKJ I'm also from Alberta so I have no hard feelings for you Calgarians

pbj · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2015, 02:23:10 pm »

I mean, he did get kind of ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- in the ass by Ultimarc. That's not really an excuse for his poor support but watching your demand obliterated has to hurt.

yotsuya · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2015, 02:59:20 pm »

Wait, so both boards have the same issue? How is that Ultimarc's fault? Make quality ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and people will buy it.

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2015, 03:06:41 pm »

Quote from: yotsuya on May 14, 2015, 02:59:20 pm

Wait, so both boards have the same issue? How is that Ultimarc's fault? Make quality ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and people will buy it.

I think Jim's saying his attitude is fueled by ultimarc.

For what it's worth, my howler is dead, too. Which is a shame, when it was working, it was pretty slick.

yotsuya · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2015, 03:19:23 pm »

Quote from: HaRuMaN on May 14, 2015, 03:06:41 pm

Quote from: yotsuya on May 14, 2015, 02:59:20 pm
Wait, so both boards have the same issue? How is that Ultimarc's fault? Make quality ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and people will buy it.

I think Jim's saying his attitude is fueled by ultimarc.

For what it's worth, my howler is dead, too. Which is a shame, when it was working, it was pretty slick.

That's pretty weak. I think the fact so many people have mentioned quality issues hurts more than Andy offering a similar product.

pbj · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2015, 03:31:32 pm »

No argument there. I feel bad for the buyers but this is definitely an argument against slapping so much functionality into one board.

yotsuya · « **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2015, 03:39:22 pm »

I wonder how much QA was done ahead of time. I saw HaRuMaN's die, and it wasn't even being used during play.

RetroGreg · « **Reply #11 on:** May 14, 2015, 03:44:34 pm »

Business is business. Someone would have copied it eventually anyway. Wasn't the project open source?

Anytime I've seen someone have a problem with an ultimarc or GGG product Andy and Randy almost always post in the thread. Is this dude banned from BYOAC after his meltdown?

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #12 on:** May 14, 2015, 03:47:03 pm »

Quote from: RetroGreg on May 14, 2015, 03:44:34 pm

Business is business. Someone would have copied it eventually anyway. Wasn't the project open source?

Anytime I've seen someone have a problem with an ultimarc or GGG product Andy and Randy almost always post in the thread. Is this dude banned from BYOAC after his meltdown?

It was supposed to be open source but I don't think he ever released the code.

Nah, no one banned him, self-imposed I guess.

RetroGreg · « **Reply #13 on:** May 14, 2015, 03:49:32 pm »

Oh well. Just saying from an outside perspective I'd be hesitant to order from him after all the posts about problems. This is a pretty tight knit community. General opinion goes a long way here.

Malenko · « **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2015, 03:50:39 pm »

Quote from: pbj on May 14, 2015, 02:23:10 pm

I mean, he did get kind of ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- in the ass by Ultimarc. That's not really an excuse for his poor support but watching your demand obliterated has to hurt.

I dont know how. He was trying to "---fudgesicle---" Ultimarc by making something that could replace 2 of their products, they just took the 2 products he was trying to replace and merged them. If I were Andy I would have done the same thing.

yotsuya · « **Reply #15 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:04:05 pm »

Quote from: Malenko on May 14, 2015, 03:50:39 pm

Quote from: pbj on May 14, 2015, 02:23:10 pm
I mean, he did get kind of ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- in the ass by Ultimarc. That's not really an excuse for his poor support but watching your demand obliterated has to hurt.

I dont know how. He was trying to "---fudgesicle---" Ultimarc by making something that could replace 2 of their products, they just took the 2 products he was trying to replace and merged them. If I were Andy I would have done the same thing.

I think it's funny that people think the Howler was the impetus for the Andy's product. Like it never occurred to Andy in the past to merge his two products.

pbj · « **Reply #16 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:08:26 pm »

Quote from: yotsuya on May 14, 2015, 04:04:05 pm

I think it's funny that people think the Howler was the impetus for the Andy's product. Like it never occurred to Andy in the past to merge his two products.

Captain Hindsight is here to carry water for Ultimarc.

yotsuya · « **Reply #17 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:11:01 pm »

Quote from: pbj on May 14, 2015, 04:08:26 pm

Quote from: yotsuya on May 14, 2015, 04:04:05 pm
I think it's funny that people think the Howler was the impetus for the Andy's product. Like it never occurred to Andy in the past to merge his two products.

Captain Hindsight is here to carry water for Ultimarc.

No, James, I just don't like when Andy or other guys gets unfounded crap when you go into Dbag Beast Mode. He's a stand up guy.

n3wt0n · « **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:16:13 pm »

My Howler has been doing this too. Josh has been really good with tech support so far trying to get it to work properly.

I dont know a lot about these things. Do you think this could be fixed via firmware/software updates or is it a hardware problem that can't be resolved?

yotsuya · « **Reply #19 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:17:27 pm »

Quote from: n3wt0n on May 14, 2015, 04:16:13 pm

My Howler has been doing this too. Josh has been really good with tech support so far trying to get it to work properly.

I dont know a lot about these things. Do you think this could be fixed via firmware/software updates or is it a hardware problem that can't be resolved?

Is Josh saying that it's a firmware issue?

n3wt0n · « **Reply #20 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:23:31 pm »

No. He has said my Howler seems to have USB issues when the computer goes to sleep. Updating the firmware seems to be a temporary solution.

JesseA · « **Reply #21 on:** May 14, 2015, 05:04:29 pm »

Quote from: yotsuya on May 14, 2015, 02:59:20 pm

Wait, so both boards have the same issue? How is that Ultimarc's fault? Make quality ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and people will buy it.

Yup both boards have the same issue.

When it does work it indeed is pretty cool. Both firmwares that are released (.202 & .255) have the same issues as far as I can tell.

Another issue that has been happening is while playing the USB will disconnect (howler usb port losing contact) which makes mame think all joysticks are "stuck" in the up direction. It usually fixes it's self in a few seconds but you need to restart the front end / LEDBlinky to get the colors correct.

My third issue that happens occasionally is ports 14 - 26 and Joysticks 2 & 4 stop working but the first half (ports 1-13 joysticks 1 & 3) works fine. You need to unplug & replug the USB or press the reset button to fix it.

I hope that Josh does find something to fix it as it seem like he truly cares, It just irks me that he was fine posting in all the Arcade fourms for the kickstarter funding but once it was out he disappeared (not to mention accusing Andy of cloning his device $:-\$ ).

I might try desoldering the USB type b port and solder the wires directly to it or buying a better quality port...

yotsuya · « **Reply #22 on:** May 14, 2015, 05:07:27 pm »

Quote from: JesseA on May 14, 2015, 05:04:29 pm

Quote from: yotsuya on May 14, 2015, 02:59:20 pm
Wait, so both boards have the same issue? How is that Ultimarc's fault? Make quality ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and people will buy it.

Yup both boards have the same issue.

When it does work it indeed is pretty cool. Both firmwares that are released (.202 & .255) have the same issues as far as I can tell.

Another issue that has been happening is while playing the USB will disconnect (howler usb port losing contact) which makes mame think all joysticks are "stuck" in the up direction. It usually fixes it's self in a few seconds but you need to restart the front end / LEDBlinky to get the colors correct.

My third issue that happens occasionally is ports 14 - 26 and Joysticks 2 & 4 stop working but the first half (ports 1-13 joysticks 1 & 3) works fine. You need to unplug & replug the USB or press the reset button to fix it.

I hope that Josh does find something to fix it as it seem like he truly cares, It just irks me that he was fine posting in all the Arcade fourms for the kickstarter funding but once it was out he disappeared (not to mention accusing Andy of cloning his device $:-\$ ).

I might try desoldering the USB type b port and solder the wires directly to it or buying a better quality port...

Great evaluation, thanks for sharing!

n3wt0n · « **Reply #23 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:54:28 pm »

Wow. You have a lot more problems than I do but then again mine has only been up for a couple months and I haven't put much time in on it.

I do really hope these issues get fixed because as JesseA has said previously, it is pretty cool when everything is working properly.

Malenko · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2015, 09:03:47 pm »

Quote from: yotsuya on May 14, 2015, 04:04:05 pm

I think it's funny that people think the Howler was the impetus for the Andy's product. Like it never occurred to Andy in the past to merge his two products.

I dont. I think Andy saw the demand and made it happen, mostly likely starting it ages before the Howler came out. I do think Howler was hoping to pull market share from Andy's product.

I think Andy is a better person, provides better support, and makes a better product.

ChanceKJ · « **Reply #25 on:** May 14, 2015, 09:49:54 pm »

If i knew what street he lived on i could deliver a brick with your "brick" taped to it.

yotsuya · « **Reply #26 on:** May 14, 2015, 10:01:35 pm »

I give Josh a lot of credit for trying something new. But I don't think he has to roll over as the "little guy" just because somebody else bigger than him is selling a similar product. If anything, it sounds like his quality assurance isn't up to snuff. He should have worked on that instead of lashing out. Fair or not, that outburst colored a lot of people's perception of him. These reports of this device having all these glitches certainly doesn't help.

SavannahLion · « **Reply #27 on:** May 15, 2015, 01:25:15 pm »

I get the impression that Josh is someone who is presenting himself as more than what he is. Like the Javascript guy trying to get a job as a low level driver developer.

Andy coming out with a competing product is probably like a slap in the face for Josh. Josh likely has nothing else to release. In the time it takes for Josh to put a new product together, Andy would probably have three or four boards in final design stages and another 3 or 4 at various stages in the design pipeline. Andy has years of experience to pull from.

I can see how Josh feels but he really tried to bite off too much. He violated the spirit of OSHW. What he has released is of guestionable quality. Not just with his boards but everything to date. Who the hell creates schematics like that? I recall he chose an XMega at the center? Those have known problems.

h0tw1r3 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 17, 2015, 03:55:10 pm »

Firmware source (v 202 only ) has been available for some time.
https://github.com/wolfwaretech/Howler-Arcade-Controller-Firmware

As a KS backer, I'm not impressed that it took so long to release any firmware source.

He has stated to me that he's not a programmer. I'm more than OK with that. There are plenty of us that are.

What I don't appreciate is funding an "open" product only to find out that the latest development (252) is not published, OR that he doesn't actually use github to push other WIP code.

I'm in the process of writing 49-way support, but it's really disappointing that any changes I release will be based on old firmware.

n3wt0n · « **Reply #29 on:** July 08, 2015, 07:21:56 am »

Quick Howler update for documentation sake. I was advised by Josh that the Howler has issues when USB goes to sleep. It took some time to get back to it but I recently updated the firmware to get it up and running again as well as stopped the computer from going to sleep. While I haven't had a chance to completely get everything working quite right between Hyperspin, LED Blinky and the Howler I can say that it has not lost connection and required a flashing of the firmware since I stopped the computer from sleeping. It has been restarted almost every day for a couple weeks now. Not played much but that's another story.

pbj · « **Reply #30 on:** July 08, 2015, 10:18:22 am »

Not knowing to disable sleep mode is kind of amateur hour, dude. Lots of this hardware has issue with that.

n3wt0n · « **Reply #31 on:** July 08, 2015, 11:03:13 am »

Hey, thanks for that. I am fully aware of my amateur status. I am also fully aware that a good number of these things have been sold and there isn't a lot of information out there about them. They have some issues about them and we are going to do the best we can with them. Tips and troubleshooting help should be freely shared and some of that will be "amateur hour" to some and a lifesaver to others.

keilmillerjr · « **Reply #32 on:** July 08, 2015, 11:29:13 am »

Quote from: n3wt0n on July 08, 2015, 07:21:56 am

Quick Howler update for documentation sake. I was advised by Josh that the Howler has issues when USB goes to sleep. It took some time to get back to it but I recently updated the firmware to get it up and running again as well as stopped the computer from going to sleep. While I haven't had a chance to completely get everything working quite right between Hyperspin, LED Blinky and the Howler I can say that it has not lost connection and required a flashing of the firmware since I stopped the computer from sleeping. It has been restarted almost every day for a couple weeks now. Not played much but that's another story.

Glad to hear that your issue is resolved. My computer does not power down USB on sleep, and is probably why I have never experienced an issue with my howler. Unfortunately I will be selling itit as I am scrapping my mame project as I have a neo geo MVS now.

SavannahLion · « **Reply #33 on:** July 08, 2015, 03:42:13 pm »

Quote from: pbj on July 08, 2015, 10:18:22 am

Not knowing to disable sleep mode is kind of amateur hour, dude. Lots of this hardware has issue with that.

Wouldn't the same be said for a USB device that can't handle sleep mode? Especially if it has an external power source?

pbj · « **Reply #34 on:** July 08, 2015, 04:09:49 pm »

Perhaps it's been awhile, but I remember this being a rampant issue with hobby related hardware. Oh well, maybe n3wton will find it in his heart to forgive my trampling of his delicate feelings.

n3wt0n · « **Reply #35 on:** July 08, 2015, 05:01:43 pm »

No feelings weren't hurt. I found out a number of posts ago that "PBJ gotta PBJ". I was just pointing out that sometimes what we assume is common knowledge may not be as common as we think.

yotsuya · « **Reply #36 on:** July 08, 2015, 06:25:33 pm »

Quote from: n3wt0n on July 08, 2015, 05:01:43 pm

I found out a number of posts ago that "PBJ gotta PBJ".

And with that realization, you're no longer a n00b.

DotSaus · « **Reply #37 on:** December 19, 2018, 11:15:02 am »

I'm sorry for reviving a dead thread, but I don't have many other choices. I'm not finding any files for the Howler arcade, and am scouring the internet for them. Do you happen to have the hex files for flashing? I have two boards, but one is stuck in programming mode, and I'm unable to get it out. Thanks!

benic76 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 23, 2018, 11:06:19 am »

hello you have HowlerConfV0_23.zip or HowlerConf_V0_92b.zip?
please send them to me?

benic76 · « **Reply #39 on:** December 23, 2018, 11:45:43 am »

try this

http://www.rapidshare.com.cn/XTjldKB


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