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Author Topic: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...  (Read 7639 times)

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jdevane

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Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« on: March 08, 2015, 06:46:58 pm »
So I have a Hard Drivin that was converted to a Race Drivin along the way and the VRAM finally died on it...  so, i thought this would be a good MAME cab and then if it turns out good I let my Need for Speed go...   

Has anyone seen anyone MAME a cabinet like this...  it is a sitdown...   I have begun to pull the all the parts out of it...  I would really like to know if the pedals could be hack for a pc...   I really like the pedal feel, however, I would be just as happy with the g27 pedals...

I also have to figure out what to do about the seat...  try and make the magnetic seat work with however the factory setup or gut that and just put a regular seat and slider in...  either way, I don't care... and I'm thinking removing the stock seat would help with weight reduction...

Xiaou2

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2015, 01:39:35 am »
Please do not hack a such a great classic.   Id bet someone would trade you a generic driving cab for that in a heartbeat.
There is simply no comparison,  with those controllers feel, accuracy, and durability.  Nor any wheel that has a stronger force feedback... let alone the accuracy of the wheels feedback.

 While mame does interface decently with typical pots and optical inputs... im not certain if you can get the brake pedals pressure sensor to interface.   Maybe check with andy from ultimarc, to see if one of his encoders can be flashed to accept that input...  and also, his suggestions for the wheels special 10-turn pot + its power hungry motor driver.



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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 09:22:34 am »
Race driving sucks, pull all that ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- out and go to town.  You could keep the existing pedals if you figure out what potentiometers you need, but it'd be much easier to just use the G27 pedals, and in this case I'd inverse mount them. Most people have "MAMEd" Crusin USAs and Sega model 2 cabs, but its the same basic idea.  Find a way to mount the wheel , pedals, and shifter and I guess in your case, find some room for some "camera buttons"
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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 04:59:36 pm »
Please do not hack a such a great classic.   Id bet someone would trade you a generic driving cab for that in a heartbeat.
There is simply no comparison,  with those controllers feel, accuracy, and durability.  Nor any wheel that has a stronger force feedback... let alone the accuracy of the wheels feedback.

 While mame does interface decently with typical pots and optical inputs... im not certain if you can get the brake pedals pressure sensor to interface.   Maybe check with andy from ultimarc, to see if one of his encoders can be flashed to accept that input...  and also, his suggestions for the wheels special 10-turn pot + its power hungry motor driver.

Normally, I wouldn't...  I have had this cabinet for 5+ years...  and I love it...  but it is what it is...  to be honest, I love the cabinet...  which is the only reason why I'm keeping it...  I mean, I already have a generic, I have a working Global VR Need for Speed, that has the immersion pcb boards and the computer...  the monitor sucks, as it is only apparently 640x480 resolution...  and I could do something with it, but its just not as cool as the race driving cabinet...

I still all the parts and pieces, if something I have can be useful to another to keep theirs going, I will be happy to discuss it...  like I said, after 5 years, mine gives a VRAM error...  the monitor last time I played it worked well...   

Anyway, from some info I gathered, the A-Pac boards work with the 5k pots interfacing them to a pc, which is what the hard driving calls for, except, looking at the pedal assembly, the brake looks like it is just a microswitch, and the clutch is the only pedal using a pot...  or maybe I had those backwards, but one of them has a switch, not a pot..

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 07:19:27 pm »
There isnt a lot of demand for Race/Hard driving stuff. You'd have better luck selling the parts over at KLOV.

 for the pedals, gas and brake should be pots, clutch should be a switch.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 11:09:01 am by BadMouth »
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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2015, 08:34:39 pm »
for the pedals, gas and brake should be pots, clutch should be a switch.

Actually, I just checked the manual online, the clutch has a POT, the brake pedal has a switch and a strain gauge...  interesting...   I don't imagine I could get that working with MAME or a PC in generally...  so looks like inverted g27 pedals it is...   

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2015, 08:41:41 pm »
yeah theres more than one version of that cab, must have gotten them mixed up, my bad.   G27 pedals are better anyway
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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2015, 04:36:02 am »
race drivin' is a great game and deserves to be kept original if possible. The pcb is so well designed that will find the bad vram for you very fast and in a reliable way. You cannot ask for more ;)

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2015, 09:05:29 am »
 Yup,  race drivin uses a strain gauge... which is a very high resolution sensor... that far exceeds the typical pot values.  If you go into the service menu,  you can calibrate and test it... to see exactly how sensitive it is.   It also uses a different resistance mechanism. . So feels far more realistic than a typical generic spring based pedal set.   Probably would need a 350$ custom made set to come even close in physical feel... and even then, they probably wouldn't have the brake resolution. ..nor the durability of the arcade hardware.

 I do not think that the pot for the wheel is a standard pot used on gas pedals and such... as the wheel can do something like a full 3 rotations.  I think its what they call a 10 turn pot.   Unlike most wheel setups,  it doesnt need gearing to increase resolution.

 The sit-down hifter is dual pot drivin... and is far more reliable than typical switch based versions.   Its built like military spec.  Theres a service option to lock the shifter in place via an electomagnetic coil mechanism.. so that it will only release when you press the clutch pedal down.

 The games math and physics engine,  was designed by the leader in car model physics.   While graphically not too impressive. .. RD has incredible physics and high resolution responses. AFAIK, No other commercial driving sim has surpassed the physical interaction feedback realism.   Hence why Race Drivins still earn well on-location... if the boardsets can be maintained.

 A.local collector I know, sought and bough two RD.cabs,  and has them linked.   Its a fun experience.  Too bad its limited to only two machines.   Someone needs to hack the code... as well as make hardware driver board.replacements.  stereoscopic shutter-glasses output would also greatly enhance the experience... making the limited graphical output far.more engaging.

 Another feature... found on the prototype.set... is the ability to hook up more monitors.   One guy had 5 monitors running on his test setup.  Each monitor can be programmed to display any camera position and angle.

 In that regard. .. I bet an emulator hack could be made to display on a Occulous rift or similar... which presents RD in full 3d, with full head tracking perspectives. .. by using a simulaion of multiple monitors in a spherical manor.

 As for buying stuff comment... its more ---saint's minion-poo--- assumptions.

 While ive not bought anything much 'recently'... I sought and bought nearly every worthwhile arcade controller (including two RD shifers, and an rd pedal set )(minus my starwars controller that my father stole.. ) ... several encoders, a few pinball machines,  and a handful of arcade games.   I may have to liquidate everything due to finances and issues that came up... but thats another issue altogether.

 RDs can and does sell. Many games which are unique,  usually sell well and or climb in Value. Its usually a matter of finding a buyer whom has the space..as RD. Is not a.small cab.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 11:07:28 am by BadMouth »

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2015, 09:39:36 am »
Btw.. its downright comical to hear someone say a consumer plastic-crap kit its better than an industrial quality all-metal control set.

 Put your g27 on location.  It wont last a month.. let alone 20+ yrs.

 However... if you insist on inferior garbage...  heres an upgrade kit that models after the RD tech... ages after its inception.

http://www.ricmotech.com/Load_Cell_Upgrade_Kit_for_Logitech_G25_G27_Pedals_p/rmt-lc27.htm

 Actually,  the mod.kits sensor might be usable for tbe RD  set...  as its the same tech being used.

 Still.. I ofgen wonder why people would butcher a unique game... rather than build new?   If your intent is to play new.. you
 can use different monitors,  az well as creating a far more comfortable and nicer looking shell.  Maybe even adding motion with 2 or 3 dof linear actuators.

 Can make a mode.comfy seat,  better surround sound speakers, enclosed roofing,  gauges. .. and more.

Fix the RD,  and put it on-location... make some money.. and or sell it.. imo.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 11:07:59 am by BadMouth »

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 10:18:37 am »

HD/RD were good games for their time. They were built solid, that is why they had a $10,000 price tag at the time. If you do enjoy the game, then get the board fixed, there are quite a few guys over on KLOV that could possibly repair it if you lack the fine solder skills. If you already have some stuff removed I'd love to see some pictures of the insides. X2 keeps saying it was a giant worm gear for the steering wheel but Ive read it was belt driven. This is also where have multiple sit down models of the cab may have lead to different parts for different machines.

There have been improvements to mechanics for racing cabs, and physics to racing game engines. X2 and I disagree on how great the physics are in this particular game, to the point he trolls me anytime this game comes up in conversation. I have read up on them and what factors are used in the physics and their limits. Easiest example I can think of is the wheels. The game factors in wheel angle and rotation speed, which was a huge step up from what other games were doing at the time (just wheel angle). Not factored in are temp, material,  wear, caster, toe, tire load, or camber. Sorry for going so far off  topic.

And yes, Hard Driving does sell well, for example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Hard-Drivin-Arcade-game-/171673932281
an entire cab for $125

I cant really reply to anything else he brought up, specifically the G27. Im sure you are not putting this game on location, so thats a moot point. The G27s are great wheels, but I bought a Fanatec Forza wheel , pedal, shifter combo. It works with PS3, XBOX360, and PC; support for XBOXOne is upcoming (some kind of adapter for existing wheels). There's a plug in for PCSX2 that makes almost any PC wheel work perfect on PS2 games, so it just gives you a ton of options to use your wheel on. Biggest downside of the Fanatec pedals is the clutch is on a combined axis, so you have to hold it half way down when mapping other controls (specifically DEMUL)

X2, as for the pedals being cheap pieces of plastic, not all consumer pedals are that way. These are the pedals I use:
http://www.fanatec.com/us-en/pedals/csr-elite-pedals-us.html
the load cell brake is pretty great.

I'd love to get a set of these when they come out, but they are just too pricey for me:
http://www.fanatec.com/us-en/pedals/clubsport-pedals-v2-us.html
Degressive clutch mechanism, with adjustable spring strength and  oil damper on the load cell brake.

I'm getting off topic again, so I'll stop. Keep us updated on what you decide to do, and post some pictures either way  :cheers:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 09:05:02 am by BadMouth »
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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 01:49:45 pm »
First off, I realize that there will always be the argument between hacking up a classic and keeping it original...

My cabinet was a hard driving that someone applied the race driving decals over and upgrade the game...    it was a route game for all of its life when I saved it from the trash at a local arcade place that was reducing its inventory...  I know of about 2 or 3 people in my area that are into arcades...  I'm the only one who likes sit downs...   everyone else plays fighting games...

I am also a big racing sim gamer and would like to use this thing not only for arcades, but to play my nascar racing and other games...

It will be on location in my office...  I managed to keep a Logitech momo together for several years, I think a new g27 should do the job..  would I like to use the stock controllers, hell yeah, do I want to spend hours making them work and trying to get something programmed and setup that apparently no one else has tried...   sadly no...   

I like the cabinet design...  all 700 pounds of it...   you may really hate the fact that I want to strip it and paint it silver to match my own personal race car and decal it...  In think that would be cool and a neat way to keep a classic alive...  (because I also hate red (which mine is) and yellow...   so either way, I don't care for the race drivin colors...)

Race Drivin is one I really enjoyed playing...    but it is not worth fixing up and continuing on simply as race drivin, if it never stopped working, I'd let it stay, but as a race drivin, it would stay in my outside shop...  fixing it up and making it my own, that will get it into the house...   I'll get rid of the need for speed I have just to have a custom race drivin cabinet...

Like I said, if someone needs some parts, I may be willing to let some go....  everything worked on mine until the VRAM went...   I did see where someone made the shifter work...  my steering setup appears to have the worm gear...

Oh, as to the comment about building something custom...  my woodworking skills suck...  and I really would like something to be proud of and not a piece of crap...  I want it to look like it belongs, not just a nailed together mess...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 01:56:40 pm by jdevane »

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2015, 10:11:55 am »
welp if you get the boards repaired and keep the cab as is,  you could always start off easier and smaller but buying a raceseat like the one my dog is sitting in , in my avatar picture.  I got the playseat itself used on craigslist for like $100 , took a while to clean it but in the long run it was cheaper than buying a new seat and totally worth $100.  I love my fanatec wheel but the G27s are quite nice as well.
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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2015, 10:39:55 pm »
Woodworking can be improved.

 If your taking out every component... it barely makes any sense...imo.   its more work to break it down... than to build new.
Really..  what are you getting after stripping?  A plastic shell over some frame that needs modifying.  Are you really saying you cant do better than that?  And where is that sense of pride and accomplishment?  And skill building?   There are a lot of examples here... and lots.of people willing to help.

 RD sitdown wheel uses a direct-drive shaft that entends out of the motor... and this rod is threaded.  There is a metal block attached to the rod... placed between two block stoppers.  This allows the wheel a precise travel length (spin).  Its far stronger than any pc wheel ever will be.  You could have a martial arts powerhouse try to slam its full extent... and it wouldnt budge.

 Lets put it like this... if I were close..id build you a cab in trade for your RD.   I believe others may feel the same.

 Wieh I could tell you for certain... that mame would play nice with original controllers and hardware options...but mame team has a.lot of stubborn people...  They dont get the fact that people would do less butchery to games if interfacing would be easier.

 Shame... ehh  aaron giles, haze ?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 08:40:52 am by BadMouth »

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2015, 08:52:10 am »
Seriously, I'm tired of having to delete personal attacks.

I'll let the reference to MAME Devs stay since there is no name calling involved.

I haven't checked into the MAME team in a while, but I thought Aaron was gone and Haze didn't do controls.

After years of me complaining about the hi/lo shifter issue and nothing being done about it, Hap comes along as a dev and comes up with a fix the first time I mention it to him.
So we can't complain about that anymore.  I don't know if Hard Drivin's controls would interface with the original machine or not the way they're done in MAME, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would prevent it.  You wouldn't have the force feedback though.

Regardless, it's his cab to do what he wants with.  Everyone wants everything preserved, but nobody has the room or money for a warehouse full of non-working cabs kept just for the sake of preservation.

Personally, I don't think it's a very good cab to MAME.  I'd sell it and buy a nice racing seat with the proceeds.
Have a look at the LCD widescreen cabs in the driving cab example thread stickied at the top of the forum.


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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2015, 09:43:51 am »
Regardless, it's his cab to do what he wants with.  Everyone wants everything preserved, but nobody has the room or money for a warehouse full of non-working cabs kept just for the sake of preservation.

Personally, I don't think it's a very good cab to MAME.  I'd sell it and buy a nice racing seat with the proceeds.
Have a look at the LCD widescreen cabs in the driving cab example thread stickied at the top of the forum.


:applaud:

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2015, 01:12:21 pm »
Tell you what, if someone wants to come swap me out for something I'd like, I'm open to it....  when working, I had this Race Driving on CL probably 2 or 3 separate times over 4 years...  other than giving it away, I had no takers... not even any interest...   and I was only asking for around $300...

All I have done is taken the guts out...  they could easily put back, as you would have to taken it all apart to fix the VRAM problem anyway...  the right side panel/board is swollen somewhat from previous water damage, its still solid and strong, but you can see it...   

X2, Ok, how much wood do I have to go through until I get something I like... probably would have a pretty good sized bill, assuming we are working with mdf like cabinets should be constructed...   really, I just don't like working with wood... realistically, it doesn't look like it would take much to make Race Drivin work as a pretty cool driver... 

I've seen the homemade cabs on the internet, and there are a few awesome projects out there, but majority of them are either niche or kind of crappy when you look at them...  and I want my to look like it belongs...  is there any other game out there that has a molded top that resembles a car???  I can easily restore that and the graphics as I have my own vinyl cutter... 

Anyway, post on this topic if you want, I'm done, my questions has been answered apparently, there has not been anyone who proceeded so I'll either be the pioneer or the guy that started and flamed out...

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2015, 05:19:41 pm »
where are you located?


Also, this is the best racing seat type project Ive ever seen :
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138146.0.html

and this is one of the better conversions, it was a cruisn cab:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,142857.0.html
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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2015, 09:16:09 pm »
Valdosta, GA     15 miles north of the GA/FL line...

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2015, 06:14:18 pm »
Things you may of not known about hard drivin'
(updated with a couple more facts at the end)

1)  Hard Drivins Force Feedback at Max level, can be used to winch an 18 wheeler out of the ditch.

3)  HDs  wheel is made of solid gold.

4) HDs wheel is huge.  They are using one for a ferris wheel in london now.

5) HDs Pedals are again, a revolution in the industry. Before this no arcade game had pedals. Neither did actual

cars.

  5a) The Brake, has a rubber.

 5b) The entire pedal assy was forged from the same fires of Moloch wince the wheel came.

 6)  The Sitdown Shifter, uses a massive hand fitted diamond balltop. It took hundreds of ethoiopians decades to

create this master piece.

 Additionally the shifter assembly was made by combining 4 "golden gate bridge" class I-beams together. People in

the future have carbon dated these back millions of years.

 7) It was the only game I know of, that used an electro magnet that would normally be in a junk yard for the

seat lock. Also the seat featured an ejection seat like one you would see in a fighter jet. I know of many ops

that had to replace their roofs daily.

 8) HD also features a full enclosure, Atari actually contracted with GM to make real cars for them, then they

ripped out most of the guts and replaced them with HD's superior mechanicals.

 9) HD is the first racer to use a brake. All arcade games before it just had a pedal there for looks, they

didn't actually do anything, and since no one ever used it, no one was the wiser.

 10) HD's physics were created by NASA. This was the whole reason behind the moon landing hoax. The whole apollo

program was a front to funnel funds into the Hard Drivin' program. Atari then disabled all this because it's a

coin game after all. That's why your car can, in addition to flying backwards at 60mph after hitting the barn at

5, randomly fall through the road and explode, can do backflips over other cars like the Blue's Mobile, and last

but not least, the reason that a dump truck is going around the f***ing stunt loop.

I also think daytona USA was an awesome simulator.

 11) HD was also one of the only arcade games that required a trip to the DMV to get your license and

registration before playing.

 12) HD was also one of the only arcade games you could (had?) to get car insurance for. I think the other one

was wacky wheels.

 13) The game has ability to have (I believe), a hook up to every screen on the planet simultaneously through a

proprietary wireless network (thanks to NASA again).

14) All of this wasn't cheap, many ops had to refinance their businesses and thus the roots of the housing market crash can be traced all the way back to HD.

------update------
15) Don't taunt Hard Drivin'

16) Xiaou2 is the only person so far to be legally married to a Hard Drivin' cab.

Loafmeister

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Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2015, 09:38:00 am »
Well, I LOL'ed :)

In saying this, I have to admit, for a "realistic driving game", I find driving a real car easier than driving in this game. :dunno  Doesn't make this game "unfun", I love it, but although for its time it was ahead of the game, I don't think it's the best thing since sliced bread either.

SailorSat

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    • For Amusement Only e.V.
Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2015, 12:27:43 pm »
Not finished yet - http://images.arianchen.de/?x=for-amusement-only/harddrivin
Will be kinda interesting to get all those features (seat magnet lock?!) back to work "from scratch".

One of many games we rescued from the dumpster...
WARNING: lots of pain ahead http://images.arianchen.de/?x=for-amusement-only/vossen-worms -- http://tote-pixel.de/pixel/672-untergang-einer-arcade.html
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 12:30:22 pm by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


MrThunderwing

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  • As I pass, do I give you the ass or the crotch?
Re: Race/Hard Driving MAME Cabinet - Anyone ever tried it...
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2015, 04:32:55 pm »
WARNING: lots of pain ahead http://images.arianchen.de/?x=for-amusement-only/vossen-worms -- http://tote-pixel.de/pixel/672-untergang-einer-arcade.html

Interesting read (with a bit of help from Google translate). Sad to see all those old machines getting butchered like that for their components.