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Author Topic: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?  (Read 36963 times)

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Vigo

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2015, 03:56:35 pm »
Agreed. I get where Scott is coming from, but challenging a member isn't problem solving. The posts might not quite make sense out of context anyway.


Let me just propose an gentleman's agreement here. No apologies owed on either side, but Mal, Neph and Scott, how about you all agree to turn the page on this and just handle things differently going forward. Scott, if you need to moderate Mal or Neph, simply do your edit to their post without any public commentary. Then, do a PM to that them and show the original post in quotes, then cite the rule violation as documentation. No other comments on the PM. Malenko and Neph, just agree to keep things cool as long as things are fair. If there is still an issue, it can be addressed at a later point when there is going to be a full documentation trail of what posts looked like before and after.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2015, 04:00:56 pm »
I don't need a a PM telling me I had a post sent to PH. Every time I drink a forty, a dump a little out for all those lost souls in Post Hell. :cheers:

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2015, 04:02:14 pm »
Agreed. I get where Scott is coming from, but challenging a member isn't problem solving. The posts might not quite make sense out of context anyway.


Let me just propose an gentleman's agreement here. No apologies owed on either side, but Mal, Neph and Scott, how about you all agree to turn the page on this and just handle things differently going forward. Scott, if you need to moderate Mal or Neph, simply do your edit to their post without any public commentary. Then, do a PM to that them and show the original post in quotes, then cite the rule violation as documentation. No other comments on the PM. Malenko and Neph, just agree to keep things cool as long as things are fair. If there is still an issue, it can be addressed at a later point when there is going to be a full documentation trail of what posts looked like before and after.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2015, 04:06:51 pm »
I'm still waiting on Malenko to reply to my earlier challenge to present the evidence of "passive aggressive PMs from moderators letting me know they can ban me ".
I never said you threatened to ban me in particular,  just that you have in fact done it (and admitted to it no less!). I wasn't aware I was not allowed to complain about what you do if it was not directed at me.  You basically said you could shut Neph up by banning him.  That's not something you joke about, more over you are the one that posted the quote, so you cant say I altered it or took it out of context. Compounding that is the fact you were "so angry" you couldn't PM back "no I wasnt really going to ban you"  (or something of that ilk) isnt helping your case. As for keeping PMs, I only keep the funny ones so you'll never have to worry about me keeping yours.

If your defense for threatening to ban Neph (even jokingly) is "I didnt threaten to ban Malenko" , that's pretty ---smurfing--- weak bro.
My complaint was a brief amalgamation of why I don't feel you do a good job moderating. This is beyond just you accusing me both posting rom links and running Howard off, let's stop trying to make it about me. Its about YOU. The way you post in this thread is proof enough you don't deserve to be a moderator.

Agreed. I get where Scott is coming from, but challenging a member isn't problem solving. The posts might not quite make sense out of context anyway.

Let me just propose an gentleman's agreement here. No apologies owed on either side, but Mal, Neph and Scott, how about you all agree to turn the page on this and just handle things differently going forward. Scott, if you need to moderate Mal or Neph, simply do your edit to their post without any public commentary. Then, do a PM to that them and show the original post in quotes, then cite the rule violation as documentation. No other comments on the PM. Malenko and Neph, just agree to keep things cool as long as things are fair. If there is still an issue, it can be addressed at a later point when there is going to be a full documentation trail of what posts looked like before and after.
While I am a gentleman I'm going to have to not take you up on this agreement. Scott has proven to be incapable of change and or learning, and I don't think trying to silence the "squeaky wheels" is problem solving either.  On more than one occasion I have stated I don't have a problem being moderated, but I do have an issue with how its done sometimes. Lastly, I dont need an apology from PL1; I dont think it'd be sincere. However a moderator resignation is a serviceable substitute.
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2015, 04:37:03 pm »
I don't need a a PM telling me I had a post sent to PH. Every time I drink a forty, a dump a little out for all those lost souls in Post Hell. :cheers:

That bit is mostly there for Scott. He states the burden of proof is on you guys, but he holds the keys to how the posts look, and he is the authority, so the reality is that the burden is much more on him to disprove.


While I am a gentleman I'm going to have to not take you up on this agreement. Scott has proven to be incapable of change and or learning, and I don't think trying to silence the "squeaky wheels" is problem solving either.  On more than one occasion I have stated I don't have a problem being moderated, but I do have an issue with how its done sometimes. Lastly, I dont need an apology from PL1; I dont think it'd be sincere. However a moderator resignation is a serviceable substitute.


The reality is that you are not going to get Scott removed from a first complaint. However, if there is evidence that there is an ongoing problem, that is a different story. For it to be ongoing, you have to let things continue, for better or worse. 

Not to diminish your points, but you did make a case that he has a steeper learning curve being a moderator, and naturally he is going to make more mistakes than someone who has been around a long time. It might have taken a knock-down drag-out fight between you guys to get there, but I believe Scott can learn to handle things more mindful in the future.

We do need moderators, spammer issues alone dictate that. So at this point, do you have a different idea for an agreement that can keep things civil until the truth fully threshes itself out?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 04:40:53 pm by Vigo »

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2015, 05:01:38 pm »
Hes been a mod for a while (5 1/2 months) , he should know better by now. He hasn't improved, in fact he's getting worse. I have little faith that this thread will change anything.

The most civil thing I believe , would for him to just stay the ---fudgesicle--- away from me. I will continue to call him on his ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2015, 05:04:03 pm »
This thread should probably be locked and sent to Post Hell.  :cheers:
There are serious concerns in this thread that deserve serious answers.

It would be nice if one of the other mods could clear out the off-topic/troublesome material.

I'd do it but when this topic was posted, I asked the other mods for feedback and notified them that I would recuse myself from mod activities (other than dealing with spammers) until this matter is settled.

Agreed. I get where Scott is coming from, but challenging a member isn't problem solving. The posts might not quite make sense out of context anyway.


Let me just propose an gentleman's agreement here. No apologies owed on either side, but Mal, Neph and Scott, how about you all agree to turn the page on this and just handle things differently going forward. Scott, if you need to moderate Mal or Neph, simply do your edit to their post without any public commentary. Then, do a PM to that them and show the original post in quotes, then cite the rule violation as documentation. No other comments on the PM. Malenko and Neph, just agree to keep things cool as long as things are fair. If there is still an issue, it can be addressed at a later point when there is going to be a full documentation trail of what posts looked like before and after.
Excellent suggestion on the documentation.   :cheers:

The only issue I have with your proposal is that it leaves Malenko's claim in the OP about PM'd ban-threats unresolved.

All I ask in this matter is a simple statement that either:
  1. It never happened or
  2.  If he thinks that it did happen, the relevant text.

To leave this question unanswered leaves the shadow of doubt that I am guilty of both trying to bully him and lying about it now.


This just in:
I never said you threatened to ban me
Close enough.  Thank you for clearing that up.

I'm willing to follow Vigo's plan.


Scott

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2015, 05:07:26 pm »
Moderating is serious business

Normally I wouldn't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, but the ban threat was uncalled for. Just send my ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to PH if it's too abrasive.

Yeah, I have to agree. When I read that thinly veiled ban threat in the Spectralite thread, I thought it was out of line. it was a conversation between Randy and Neph, and the mod inadvertently made himself a part of it (and took a side) by doing what he did.

My post was intended as a "Dude, what are you doing?  Cut it out." nudge rather than a serious ban threat.

That line in the Spectalite thread was never intended as a ban threat, but in retrospect, I understand why it is viewed that way.

That unwise joke on my part is the only thing in all my posts and PMs that can be even remotely construed as being a ban threat.

I have already admitted that posting it was a major screw-up on my part.

One way or another, it won't happen again.


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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2015, 05:09:59 pm »
there's one way to guarantee it never happens again - :police:

to recap your last post, You say "this just in" to an hour old post, then C/P something out of context leaving off the part where you're guilty of "jokingly" threatening to ban someone.

 I can see this thread has really gotten you to clean up your act! kudos!
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2015, 05:56:09 pm »
That line in the Spectalite thread was never intended as a ban threat, but in retrospect, I understand why it is viewed that way.

After reading your ban threat (let's call it what it is) originally, I asked another member how he had interpreted it, as I wanted to make sure I was reading it right. Reading it over a couple of times, I could see it meaning one of two things: a ban threat, or deleting my posts. The other member also interpreted it as a ban threat. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I thought I should get it straight out of the horse's mouth and sent you the following PM (since you've magically lost your copy):

You talking about banning me? I've broken no rules. Or were you talking about sending my posts to Post Hell? I've already got 1000 posts there.

No reply... until you started catching heat. I don't subscribe to ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.


« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 06:24:04 pm by Nephasth »

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2015, 06:25:41 pm »
Yes Scott runs the wiki, I think that should be his full time job.  Just to note, I did try to work on the wiki and the first thing that happened was, the pages I made were removed, all the data I researched was then added to a new page by the scottbot. So, yeah, I dont bother anymore.

Actualy, I PM'd to ask you if it was OK since the original page was named "Four Player Games".
Quote
Would you mind if we put all the 3+ player games on one page like the spinner/dial gamelist?

This will allow "one-stop-shopping" for multi-player game lists when planning a cab.

I'm thinking about a format like this:
- 3P games
-- 3P games requiring special controls
- 4P games
-- 4P games requiring special controls
- 6P games
-- 6P games requiring special controls
. . .

And several hours later,
Quote
Updated and sorted the list.   ;D

Copied the contents to a new page here titled "Multi-Player Games".

Added links to other game lists and linked to the new page on the FAQ.

Thanks again.   ;D

And check out the related Talk page here.
Quote
Content on this page is copied from the 4-player list wiki page created by Malenko.
I'm always glad when someone contributes to the wiki and wanted to be sure that you got credit for the content.

(BTW, if anyone is wondering, I don't have server-level wiki access.  I can't mess with time stamps.)

I deleted the original "Four Player Games" page since at that time we were the only ones who had seen it (or linked to it) and didn't want to leave a duplicate or orphan page like Le Chuck's trigger stick mod pages. (Active page here, Locked orphan page here)

If you weren't happy, why didn't you say something?   :dunno


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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #91 on: February 09, 2015, 06:39:24 pm »
Has anyone contacted Saint directly and asked him to resolve this?  It's his place and while it's admirable that you are at least attempting to resolve this, it's fairly apparent that it's not going to work out without his decision about how to move forward.


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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2015, 07:16:21 pm »
Has anyone contacted Saint directly and asked him to resolve this?  It's his place and while it's admirable that you are at least attempting to resolve this, it's fairly apparent that it's not going to work out without his decision about how to move forward.
I posted on the moderator forum three days ago asking for brutally honest feedback and linking to this thread.

As of right now, 0 replies and 3 views.   :dunno

Two of the views were me.   :badmood:


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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2015, 07:50:35 pm »
Let me put it out there that I got Malenko and Nephs back on what happened, bottom line, Scott shouldn't be waving the ban hammer around at all when he sees an infraction. I respect malenko and nephasth completely, they are my brothers, and know something is off when they are both feeling disrespected by a mod. I saw the case with neph on Randy's thread and agree it sounded like a ban threat. while I didn't see what Scott wrote in on mal's "p-dome" post, I believe malenko that it was an uncalled for comment.

At the same time, I think Scott is a good guy and solid rock here, and deserves the benefit of the doubt. I was not surprised with his selection, because he has been a stable source of help for everyone who comes here. After becoming a mod, he probably did not understand the weight he was carrying in his words, and after the lumps he is taking here, I am sure he will change his method of operation. I am happy he is actively here to clean up the streets, and day in day out stuff, I have no complaint. Scott screwed up, and that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- can happen to the best of us.

None of you three are helping your case out though. Picking apart every detail of a post will not bring a Scott's head on a platter. Walls of text or asking for documentation will not make you look like a better mod.

So I will go back to my suggestion to the issue for now and all at least agree to focus on rule 6. If ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- crops up again, I will be happy to help fight it out.

Quote
6. Don't take it personally if you get edited by an admin or moderator. Things aren't always black and white and sometimes what is or isn't in line with the rules here is simply a judgement call. If your post gets edited but no other comment is made to you, don't stress about it. No one's mad at you or trying to censor your point of view. Just trying to keep it family friendly.




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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2015, 08:19:51 pm »
after the lumps he is taking here, I am sure he will change his method of operation.
QFT.

Scott screwed up, and that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- can happen to the best of us.
QFT part II.

Thanks, Vigo.   :cheers:


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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2015, 08:23:24 pm »
 :cheers: Vigo.

I do want to clarify, that I haven't asked for any action to be taken against Scott. I just needed to submit my complaint. What gets done about it, and who handles it is out of my hands. But I've lost basically all respect for Scott, partly due to the ban threat, mostly due to how he's interacted with Malenko in this thread.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2015, 08:38:31 pm »
RE: the wiki   

It was a litmus test to see if I should even bother doing anything to it. As soon as you PM'ed me to move/alter/change/redo what little content I created, I was done.  It honestly has no bearing on this because I'm fine with you doing whatever you want to the wiki, moderator or not. I don't feel the need to update anything else for it, nor will I direct people to it anymore. My PM replies were just the facade of a happy camper, I didn't see the point in fighting for something I care so little about. The forums are something different.


As for this discussion, its going in circles and I withdraw from the conversation. Do whatever you want, but stay away from me.
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #97 on: February 09, 2015, 09:49:39 pm »
I guess I shouldn't take long weekends. :(

I will be looking at all this in the morning. If everyone could please keep things civil a bit longer I'd appreciate it.
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #98 on: February 10, 2015, 09:39:32 am »
I am writing up a response now.
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #99 on: February 10, 2015, 09:50:43 am »
I aspire to be involved in the classic gaming community.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #100 on: February 10, 2015, 12:47:41 pm »
    Hey PBJ.... I notice that guy isn't drinking toilet wine, its like in a bottle and everything, cant be a friend of yours.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #101 on: February 10, 2015, 01:14:50 pm »
One day I'm going to have a beer with PBJ. I may end up pouring it over his head, or I may end up buying his drinks. It's a 50/50 toss-up.

There is a private discussion going on I want to conclude before I post anything here. Should be soon.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #102 on: February 10, 2015, 01:38:46 pm »
One day I'm going to have a beer with PBJ. I may end up pouring it over his head, or I may end up buying his drinks. It's a 50/50 toss-up.

There is a private discussion going on I want to conclude before I post anything here. Should be soon.

If the GoFundMe is successful and we get PBJ to ZapCon 2015, you should come too. We can be there to watch you share a drink, or hold him down so you can pour the beer on him. Either way, we all win!  :cheers:
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #103 on: February 10, 2015, 02:57:14 pm »
OK, I have sorted through this as best I can. I have no doubt I've missed some specifics and/or history but I think I have the gist.

First off, Hoopz is right. I have been an absentee mod to a large extent for a while. The last 12 months haven't been a great year for me. Everyone's got their own things to deal with so I won't bore you with mine, but from a priority perspective, moderating the forum hasn't been terribly high on my list.

That means the burden has fallen heavily on the most active mods, namely Delusional29, HaRuMaN, and PL1. There are two parts of moderating. The first is easy enough, if tedious - spammers. If not for the efforts of these three we'd be drowning in SPAM, so thank you guys for stepping up.

The other part is a lot harder - keeping the rules enforced without over-moderating. I hate having rules. Every rule in place goes just a little more towards stifling a free and open exchange of ideas and information. However, every single rule is there because someone was a jackass and did something illegal or obnoxious that put this site in jeopardy. So, we have rules.

The rules are as general as I could make them and still address the need, and enforcing them is always a judgement call. Since I wasn't here making those calls, PL1 was trying to do so. This is where I put PL1 in the bad position of having to try to read my mind and try to do things my way. It can't be done. I'm frequently inconsistent based on the individual situation. This has always been my house with my personal touch on how things are administered, and it wasn't fair of me to abandon that and expect anyone else to step in. The fault for any friction here is mine.

I've asked PL1 to ease back from rule enforcement but to continue to help moderate spammers and technical forum issues. In turn, I will try to step back up and keep my house in order.

This thread will stay open for anyone who has something they want to say, as long as it's kept civil please. Suggestions and criticism of me and the forum are welcomed.
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Nephasth

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #104 on: February 10, 2015, 03:03:34 pm »
Thanks for your time, Saint. I now you've got more important ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to deal with than internet drama.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #105 on: February 10, 2015, 03:04:30 pm »
Eh, this is my baby. I should change its diapers every now and then.

Um... that analogy kind of went south.
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HaRuMaN

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #106 on: February 10, 2015, 03:15:12 pm »
Eh, this is my baby. I should change its diapers every now and then.

Um... that analogy kind of went south.

Hmm.  So who qualifies as the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- in the diaper?   :laugh2:

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2015, 04:10:40 pm »
Eh, this is my baby. I should change its diapers every now and then.

Um... that analogy kind of went south.

As a dad I can verify that the analogy was dead on.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #108 on: February 20, 2015, 12:07:03 pm »
Can we discuss Haruman next?  He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.

 :cheers:
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #109 on: February 20, 2015, 12:15:47 pm »
Can we discuss Haruman next?  He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.

 :cheers:

Rigggghhhhht.  Cuz I delete the crap you constantly spew in my thread.   :cheers:

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #110 on: February 20, 2015, 12:24:30 pm »
He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.

You certainly have giant brass ones. (Certainly, nobody can ever accuse you of holding back when you have an opinion.)

My one thought is that the perception of having a moderator in the Retail Vendors forum who is also a Retail Vendor (and as such, has skin in the game) is that this exact point can be made quite easily. Regardless of how fairly one may moderate, this perception will always exist. Even if that Moderator never touched a post - someone can always call them out on moderating, because really, who knows what was there when we were all offline?

I'm wordy. I try to put my points across without offending people. I don't know if it's going to work all the time, but this is what I think.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #111 on: February 20, 2015, 12:26:26 pm »
He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.

You certainly have giant brass ones. (Certainly, nobody can ever accuse you of holding back when you have an opinion.)

My one thought is that the perception of having a moderator in the Retail Vendors forum who is also a Retail Vendor (and as such, has skin in the game) is that this exact point can be made quite easily. Regardless of how fairly one may moderate, this perception will always exist. Even if that Moderator never touched a post - someone can always call them out on moderating, because really, who knows what was there when we were all offline?

I'm wordy. I try to put my points across without offending people. I don't know if it's going to work all the time, but this is what I think.

Didn't you "try" to make this point already once, Rick? It didn't go anywhere last time, either.

Can we discuss Haruman next?  He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.

 :cheers:

Proof?
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #112 on: February 20, 2015, 12:28:05 pm »
He's butthurt for whatever reason that I deleted this from the thread:




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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #113 on: February 20, 2015, 12:29:28 pm »
Oh, yeah. Well, he does have a tendency to crap in FS threads, so there's that....
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #114 on: February 20, 2015, 12:29:47 pm »
because really, who knows what was there when we were all offline?

There is a moderator log that shows every moderator action:

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Deleted " credit card machine" by "cavlish5" from " credit card machine" Today at 03:04:11 am PL1 Global Moderator Logged
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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #115 on: February 20, 2015, 12:30:43 pm »
Didn't you "try" to make this point already once, Rick? It didn't go anywhere last time, either.

True. I don't think I'm wrong, however. The perception is there.

Proof?

PBJ had replied to Haruman's updated fightstick with a picture of the X-Arcade, which was very similar in design. That post no longer exists, but there's a post with more content in there now from SNAAKE.

Yeah - that one you guys posted above.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #116 on: February 20, 2015, 12:33:21 pm »
Haruman has vaporized the proof, but he nuked a post where I pointed out how eerily close his new single player joystick was to an X-arcade. 

Granted, he just posted a 3D mockup, so maybe it's just the CNC plans ready to go in case a fish is hooked?

Anyway, considering as that X-Arcade single player joystick is $70-80, and Haruman is likely to want at least $50 shipped for an unassembled stack of boards, I think it's only fair to point out the other option to people on this forum.

 :cheers:







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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #117 on: February 20, 2015, 12:33:55 pm »
Oh, yeah. Well, he does have a tendency to crap in FS threads, so there's that....

Only after the junk has been unloaded.  C'mon, now.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #118 on: February 20, 2015, 12:36:18 pm »
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,6106.0.html

  • No thread poisoning.  Thread poisoning occurs when a person comes into a thread and posts something contrary to the spirit/intent of the thread.

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Re: Can we complain about mods, or maybe get one replaced?
« Reply #119 on: February 20, 2015, 12:38:06 pm »
Oh, yeah. Well, he does have a tendency to crap in FS threads, so there's that....

Only after the junk has been unloaded.  C'mon, now.

It's still thread-crapping. Good thing you got all that free toilet paper.
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