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Author Topic: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!  (Read 3297 times)

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mimic

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Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« on: January 20, 2015, 11:22:45 pm »
So I'm trying to restore my pinball's playfield and it blows monkey balls! Cheap way by hand with acrylic paints it leaves paint brush strokes like a mother! Air brushing without ever doing it before and buying all the equipment seems like complete nonsense. Is there anyone that I could just buy pre-printed playfield on like an adhesive vinyl, sand down my playfield, coat it with automotive clear coat and call it a day?
How come these people can get something like that and redo their side art!? Is there anyone that can just print any playfield?


 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy_9zkrpg94

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azMylV2PAYM

ed12

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2015, 12:43:29 am »
please note.. both videos refer to side art..
the playfield is a brand new grab bag...
it is largely stated DO NOT FILL THE DIBIT'S WITH PAINT..
your playfield is screen-printed..
all u are doing is filling in the dibit's with paint, which  WILL NOT WORK

ed



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mimic

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2015, 12:53:23 pm »
 Thank you for the reply, but I'm almost tempted to say "Duh!"

Of course I know i linked to side art restoration. My point is that if side art can be printed in that way, why not restore play field the same way!?

And yes play field can be painted if you are prepared to clear coat it with automotive clear coat like this guy:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fScfkS9GZoM

yotsuya

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2015, 01:26:30 pm »
I guess you've never heard about Mylar playfields?
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

ed12

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2015, 01:46:55 pm »
ya I never went into mylar, as I would have thought the machine would be to old
or before they used mylar
the olny real thing u can do with a bad playfield is to restart it from scratch..
I do it all the time, and it is at best a "b".

ed
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pbj

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2015, 03:05:33 pm »
Light sanding and a layer of clearcoat makes the brush marks disappear.

 :cheers:

TopJimmyCooks

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2015, 06:56:40 pm »
A full proper discussion of playfield restoration is beyond the scope of this forum.  you have to clear over all that acrylic or it will not last long.  You will eventually run out of time, tools and experience and crash hard.  Start with a pf you don't care about for your first one. 

here's a thread from a good guy on how to do it properly.  https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

here's an easier type of clear finish to do:  http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index3.htm#end

thehammer12

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2015, 07:40:07 pm »
A full proper discussion of playfield restoration is beyond the scope of this forum.  you have to clear over all that acrylic or it will not last long.  You will eventually run out of time, tools and experience and crash hard.  Start with a pf you don't care about for your first one. 

here's a thread from a good guy on how to do it properly.  https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

here's an easier type of clear finish to do:  http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index3.htm#end

Yeah this should be a convo for pinside, not here.  But everyone is happy to help where they can..
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 08:09:15 pm by thehammer12 »

Fursphere

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2015, 07:55:16 pm »
So I'm trying to restore my pinball's playfield and it blows monkey balls! Cheap way by hand with acrylic paints it leaves paint brush strokes like a mother! Air brushing without ever doing it before and buying all the equipment seems like complete nonsense.

So I've done three playfield restores, working on a forth -   (i'd never done this before the first pin I purchased)

Gottlieb Time Line - MASSIVE repaint by hand.  Took months.  I thought it looked like crap when I was done, but many people who saw it thought it was factory original and looked great.  The key is in the clear coat.  clear / sand / repeat.  many many times.  (I used rattle can Varathane).  I actually had to fill in areas where the wood was worn down with primer to build it up to get it flat again.

Gottlieb Stargate.  Still a work in progress.  Whoever at Gottlieb decided to use metallic silver paint as the PRIMER needs to be kicked and beaten.  What a horrible idea that was.  I've been working on this one for a long time.  (given up a couple of times)

My only advice is to pick an area, and work on it a little each night.  If its not coming out perfect the way you want it too, jump to another area and come back later.  Its tedious work. 

And remember to consider the overall quality of the machine before you try and make it factory original.  Putting 500 hours into a playfield that is worth $200 doesn't make any sense.  Automotive clear coat is awesome, but expensive and toxic as all hell when applied (it can make you go blind without the proper safety equipment).  (hire a professional with a shop who's done it before if you go this route).   The law of diminishing returns applies to this kind of work. 

What game are you restoring anyway? 

« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 08:11:20 pm by Fursphere »

mimic

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2015, 10:16:43 pm »
So I'm trying to restore my pinball's playfield and it blows monkey balls! Cheap way by hand with acrylic paints it leaves paint brush strokes like a mother! Air brushing without ever doing it before and buying all the equipment seems like complete nonsense.

So I've done three playfield restores, working on a forth -   (i'd never done this before the first pin I purchased)

Gottlieb Time Line - MASSIVE repaint by hand.  Took months.  I thought it looked like crap when I was done, but many people who saw it thought it was factory original and looked great.  The key is in the clear coat.  clear / sand / repeat.  many many times.  (I used rattle can Varathane).  I actually had to fill in areas where the wood was worn down with primer to build it up to get it flat again.

Gottlieb Stargate.  Still a work in progress.  Whoever at Gottlieb decided to use metallic silver paint as the PRIMER needs to be kicked and beaten.  What a horrible idea that was.  I've been working on this one for a long time.  (given up a couple of times)

My only advice is to pick an area, and work on it a little each night.  If its not coming out perfect the way you want it too, jump to another area and come back later.  Its tedious work. 

And remember to consider the overall quality of the machine before you try and make it factory original.  Putting 500 hours into a playfield that is worth $200 doesn't make any sense.  Automotive clear coat is awesome, but expensive and toxic as all hell when applied (it can make you go blind without the proper safety equipment).  (hire a professional with a shop who's done it before if you go this route).   The law of diminishing returns applies to this kind of work. 

What game are you restoring anyway?

THANK YOU! for encouraging words! I don't mind painting by hand at all, I actually have "very easy" Playfield to do (Mr & Mrs Pacman). What I mind is to make it look like ass. It looks decent from a distance, but up close looks like fat clogged up arteries. Brush strokes, gulps of paint on top of paint. I'm scared that it's going to look like that after clear coat and my understanding is after automotive clear coat, that's basically end of the road, no corrections of any type.

Light sanding and a layer of clearcoat makes the brush marks disappear.

 :cheers:

Light sanding of what, acrylic paint? (that's what I'm tempted to do but I'm thinking it will just create holes)

I guess you've never heard about Mylar playfields?

yes, I have but I doubt that's the case with my pinball (Mr&Mrs Pacman)


Final thought though. No one is addressing possibility of printing an adhesive vinyl playfield and then sticking it onto sanded playfield, coat it and call it a day? No one tried that kind of approach!?

thehammer12

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2015, 10:33:33 pm »
Quote
Final thought though. No one is addressing possibility of printing an adhesive vinyl playfield and then sticking it onto sanded playfield, coat it and call it a day? No one tried that kind of approach!?

Im sure its been thought of, but if your gonna go through all that trouble of taking it apart and etc. Why not just do it right? Im pretty sure thats what most of the others would say, no point in taking it down and half assing it with a vinyl.....especially on the playfield haha.

mimic

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2015, 11:02:09 pm »
Quote
Final thought though. No one is addressing possibility of printing an adhesive vinyl playfield and then sticking it onto sanded playfield, coat it and call it a day? No one tried that kind of approach!?

Im sure its been thought of, but if your gonna go through all that trouble of taking it apart and etc. Why not just do it right? Im pretty sure thats what most of the others would say, no point in taking it down and half assing it with a vinyl.....especially on the playfield haha.

Why do you think it wouldn't be looking right?  :o
Vibrant beautiful colors, perfect playfield look, smooth surface. After coating it with clear coat, who would even know that's not original!? If you look at the videos how awesome the side art looks, I don't see how you can lose!?

Fursphere

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2015, 09:55:22 am »
THANK YOU! for encouraging words! I don't mind painting by hand at all, I actually have "very easy" Playfield to do (Mr & Mrs Pacman). What I mind is to make it look like ass. It looks decent from a distance, but up close looks like fat clogged up arteries. Brush strokes, gulps of paint on top of paint. I'm scared that it's going to look like that after clear coat and my understanding is after automotive clear coat, that's basically end of the road, no corrections of any type.

That's not entirely true.   Automotive clear cannot be removed.  (you could sand it off...?)  But it can be painted over and cleared again. 

Its this game right?   http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1639

Being a 1982 - it probably used some form of Varathane as clear - not the hard automotive type.  So you could easily do it yourself. 

You can do the repaint and clear without dropping the wiring harness, but you need to pull the playfield out of the cabinet.  I built a rotisserre similar to this one pretty cheap - http://www.tokensonly.com/2009/06/resources/building-a-pinball-playfield-rotisserie/

Take a CRAZY AMOUNT of pictures as you strip the playfield of all the parts.  That includes pulling the wireforms out.  For wireforms I used a piece of wood to gently pry them out.  GO SLOW.  :)

Do all your touch ups and repainting.  I personally have a couple of airbrushes - which is the best way to hit large areas with uniform color.  But you have to mask off the areas you don't want to hit - which can pull paint if its already brittle. 

Use Naphtha to clean the playfield before you start.  http://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip-VM-P-Naphtha-Quart/dp/B001G9TGQI 
It'll get all the oils and junk off the playfield.  (it'll melt acrylic paint, so go easy on the parts you've already painted - or strip and start over if needed, I've done that many times).

I use Decro-Art Americana paint.  Its cheap - but not as cheap as you think when you end up buying 80 or so different colors trying to match everything.  lol  (I'd go to the craft store - like Michaels or Jo'Annes and buy like 10 shapes of one color - trying to get as close as possible to what the original color was)  They run $1 - $1.50 ish a bottle I think?  http://decoart.com/americana/

I think this is the "clear coat" I used on the Gottliebs -
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Varathane-11-25-oz-Clear-Gloss-Spar-Urethane-Spray-Paint-6-Pack-250081/202057144

Keep at it, and take your time if this is something you really want to take on.   Just remember, you'd not going to get it done quickly.   :cheers:

jennifer

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2015, 08:11:49 pm »
   Vinyl can be a pretty nice solution.... However its not the time/money savings one might think to do it correctly, Besides the editing software and actually getting the print, a plotter cutter is needed to cut the holes , and when done and stuck, the whole things needs to be leveled under a 2K clear (17-25 coats).   

mimic

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2015, 11:25:35 pm »
I have one last question is there a place where I could download High Quality playfield for Bally's Mr&Mrs Pacman WITHOUT all the playfield accessories? I would like to try to print it on self adhesive paper/vinyl whatever. Glue it onto playfield and then cut out all the necessary holes and finally finish it off with clearcoat.

Fursphere

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2015, 08:27:06 am »
http://www.vpforums.org/

If they've made a VP9 version of the table, there is probably high quality artwork there somewhere.   Maybe.  :)

jennifer

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2015, 02:42:52 pm »
      You may want to consider a better used P/F, or just a new pin, Because what your talking about s not  cheap or fast... First, Scan everything, at around 300dpi, the reassemble scans in photoshop, (6 is my preference), Using Pantone color chips for your RGB reference.  Illustrator for the vector, Off to the print. For vinyl you WILL need a plot/cutter for the holes (US cutter is fine for the tracking) And no, you canot "carefully" cut out the holes with an exacto knife... Or separate colors for screens.(The latter is a better choice but adds even more money to this project).... After the art is applied, Vinyl will require automotive grade clear ( 17-24 coats) to build it up to flat, Or screen art can just be waxed.

mimic

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2015, 06:36:41 pm »
      You may want to consider a better used P/F, or just a new pin, Because what your talking about s not  cheap or fast... First, Scan everything, at around 300dpi, the reassemble scans in photoshop, (6 is my preference), Using Pantone color chips for your RGB reference.  Illustrator for the vector, Off to the print. For vinyl you WILL need a plot/cutter for the holes (US cutter is fine for the tracking) And no, you canot "carefully" cut out the holes with an exacto knife... Or separate colors for screens.(The latter is a better choice but adds even more money to this project).... After the art is applied, Vinyl will require automotive grade clear ( 17-24 coats) to build it up to flat, Or screen art can just be waxed.

If a good copy of playfield already exists that would be big step forward. Fast doesn't matter. I just noticed at my local CVS they have a plotter and biggest print which was like 24x36 or something like that was I think $30. If they can offer such price I would think some more pro printing place would be able to do whole thing maybe for a $100? (I'm purely speculating). Heck I'd rather go with lets say 3 sets of 24x36 panels and worry with aligning them all together and the possible line in between'em, than what I have right now.
As so to hole cut outs I think it would be easier than you think. If I would pop out all of the plastic insert (otherwise all the inserts will be recessed), then I have the wooden edge to use as a guide to cut it out nicely, plus I might not even need to worry about that, as I could shove the excess back into the hole, before reinserting plastic inserts.

jennifer

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2015, 07:59:24 pm »
    Most likely they will just show you to the door, once they see what your working on.

mimic

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2015, 08:08:43 pm »
    Most likely they will just show you to the door, once they see what your working on.

Who would show me to the door?

jennifer

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2015, 08:14:30 pm »
     Most any print/copy shops... They wont touch it because its copyright protected. 

mimic

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2015, 08:42:08 pm »
     Most any print/copy shops... They wont touch it because its copyright protected.

I have the machine, I'm not trying to profit from it, I kind of don't see it. I'll worry about that when/if I have to graphics for my playfield. TIll then it just speculations.

jennifer

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Re: Trying to restore pinball playfield SUCKS!
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2015, 10:25:09 pm »
       Oh so you got it figgerd out then?...  Bring your CVS a stripped/cleaned playfield for a scan and lets see what you got.

  
 

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