Project: Arcade Evolution (Wiring and Metalwork!)

[yotsuya]

BTW, I like you, bro. You have a definite plan, and you're going to stick with it. Kudos to you. 

[dkersten]

What is going to be your main game of choice? Is it fighting games? (only saying this based on your sketchup drawings).

If so, id re-think the u360's. Large amount of throw, weak springback (even with upgraded springs) and funnily enough - the lack of clicking (as there are no switches) is oddly disorientating.

I tend to second this one.. if fighting games are going to be the main choice, perhaps a servo-stik will be a better choice.. the 4-way mode is superior to the u360 with the octagonal restrictor (and just a tad better than a U360 with top mount restrictor in 4-way mode) IMHO, and for fighting games I think a "clicky" 8 way with a short shaft is better.  It is a feedback thing for me... 

And YES, I have the U360's in my cab with the top mount restrictors, longer shafts, and the stiffer springs (that come with the kit Ultimarc sells). I ALSO did a build with the octagonal restrictor, longer shafts, and heavy springs (again all ordered from Ultimarc and yes the octagonal was the new design) and while it is pretty nice as an overall stick, it is still a pretty long throw and not quite as good in 4 way games.  I also did a build with the servo stiks and I have 2 j-stiks in my cab as well, so I have an opinion of them based on experience as well.

However, joysticks are VERY much a "preference" item, and while one person might say that you need to go one way, it really comes down to what you like.  The U360 is a great all around stick that gives probably the best experience one stick can give if you are going to play all games equally and have to limit yourself to one stick.  It certainly doesn't suck for fighting games, it just isn't the best choice (again, IMHO).  Any way you look at it though, not only have I read it a thousand times here, I have also said it more than once, figure out what games you want to play and then build it around that. 

To the OP, I like the design, I hope you can pull it off.

[Nephasth]

Maybe the long shafts in your guys' U360s are giving you grief. With metal panels you don't need long shafts. Moral of the story is, use metal CPs just like manufactures did.

Top mounted restrictors... Horrible idea.

Don't know why a longer throw affects your gameplay when you can alter your maps for tighter actuation.


ETA: My favorite joystick is the Sanwa JLW. What's a U360 based off of? A J-stick. What's a J-stick? A stick made by a company that isn't Sanwa, but built to the JLW specifications. What's a Servostik? A J-stick with an actuator bolted to it. Fundamentally, they're all the same stick. The U360 offers the greatest versatility in that the maps can be changed to suit your playing style. If you pull one out of the box, slap in your machine, and expect to have a great stick, you're not going to be very pleased. Just like buying a new car, when you get in it for the first time you have to adjust the seat, mirrors, steering wheel and whatever else makes you comfortable. You can setup a map for 4way games, a map for qbert, a map for basic 8ways, and a completely different map for fighters and have the maps change based on game selection with LEDBlinky. If you need a physical restriction (4way games, I'm looking at you) to tell you where up, down, left, and right are, well... that's a personal problem. The number one reason why people put 4way sticks in their machines along with 8ways, was that when a diagonal direction was hit with an 8way, 4way games would respond undesirably. With the custom maps the U360 offers, you don't get that strange behavior in 4way games, you just need to know your directions.

[ZexisStryfe]

Just to end the two debates going on here-

1.) There will be no pinball buttons. There is no need since my next project will likely be a vPin machine.

2.) I will be going with the 360s for the joysticks. No debate necessary. I will be buying the long handles, octagon restrictors and harder springs and will play with the combinations to get what feels best.

No more debate necessary.

[birchyman]

Don't know why a longer throw affects your gameplay when you can alter your maps for tighter actuation.

I generally find its an issue when doing double direction moves i.e. double forward punch etc etc. With my xbox fight stick i can just flick it with 1 finger and then quickly hit it with a second finger. Cant do that on the u360.

All good - If i were to build again I would still build with the u360. Was setting up dreamcast and n64 emulator yesterday and the analogue joystick is a godsend for those systems.

[ZexisStryfe]

Alright, as I had previously mentioned, for the front end interface I will be going with a holographic HUD style (think the Iron Man suit HUD, but in gold and blue). When designing the control panel overlay I wanted to bring that design element into this artwork as well. Below is the current itineration of the CP overlay (without the 4-way joystick and spinner). There are still a few tweaks that need to be made, but overall the final artwork should look like this-

[brucelee00]

Looks great! Don't let anyone sway from incorporating the trackball either

[Nephasth]

Don't know why a longer throw affects your gameplay when you can alter your maps for tighter actuation.

I generally find its an issue when doing double direction moves i.e. double forward punch etc etc. With my xbox fight stick i can just flick it with 1 finger and then quickly hit it with a second finger. Cant do that on the u360.

Hmm, this made me run down to the Beast to make sure. My U360s spring back just as fast as my JLWs, and have no problem hitting very fast double, triple, quadruple directions. That wasn't always the case though. Before I lubed my pivots, my U360s were very sluggish, to the point I was regretting my purchase of them. It's been 2-3 years since I've lubed 'em, and they're still really smooth and fast. I think if you lube your pivots, you'll have much better success with getting a stick response closer to what you're looking for, but you'll always have that extra throw due to your longer shafts.

[ZexisStryfe]

Looks great! Don't let anyone sway from incorporating the trackball either

Oh, trackball is staying. I enjoy the bowling and golf games too much to get rid of it! 

[brucelee00]

Looks great! Don't let anyone sway from incorporating the trackball either

Oh, trackball is staying. I enjoy the bowling and golf games too much to get rid of it! 

Agreed. They make for fun competitive play when you have people over. 

[dkersten]

You can change the "virtual" actuation of the 360, but not the physical, and with longer shafts the throw as I can measure it on mine is about double what it is with stock j-stiks.  Double.  That is a huge difference.  With the stock shaft height and a physical restrictor in place, it should be about the same though.  That longer shaft makes a lot of difference, and the stiffer spring simply doesn't completely make up for it.  My sticks center up just as fast as the j-stiks, but they bounce back and forth a few times before completely stopping.  And tactile feedback is completely different.  The 360 is smooth from center to the full throw in any direction where the j-stik resistance increases as you push in one direction, then when you are just about to click the switch, the resistance drops way down before it hits the restrictor.  That "tactile" feedback can make a big difference in gameplay.

It really doesn't matter if the mounting plate, shaft diameter, and pivot are all based on the same stick, there is no question that these are completely different sticks, even at the same length shaft.  But this is like arguing leaf switches against clicky switches.  It is just a matter of preference.

The only reason I chimed in is because the info on the u360 was valid and being dismissed as if it were untrue.  The u360 is a great stick and I am sure the OP will be perfectly happy with his choice, but don't expect it to feel the same as a JLW or J-stik, especially with longer shafts.

[AzureKnight]

I love the artwork, the style is one that I personally love.  Nice work.

One question: do you need the two buttons next to the trackball?  Why now just use P1 or P2 buttons and keep that space free?

[ZexisStryfe]

I love the artwork, the style is one that I personally love.  Nice work.

One question: do you need the two buttons next to the trackball?  Why now just use P1 or P2 buttons and keep that space free?

I prefer having mouse 1 and mouse 2 separate.

and on another note-



It is almost like something this going to happen soon... 

[gbeef]

Very nice CP overlay.

[Locke141]

And if you can get past level 1 with a joystick, you better celebrate.

I can get fairly far with a joystick. I need to build a spinner cab already.


@OP May I suggest 1 minor change?  Put the bad guys on the left and the good guys on the right.  It just seems like everyone has the good on the left for some reason.

In US politics the good guys are on the left side. 

I love the what you have so far. Your art is amazing.

[ZexisStryfe]

In US politics the good guys are on the left side. 

I love the what you have so far. Your art is amazing.

LOL 

So to continue the art discussion, here is the current version of the marquee. Please excuse the blurred out boobies 

I will be changing the background wings symbol a bit, but for the most part this is what the marquee will look like-

[AzureKnight]

So when do the trade paperbacks come out?   

[ZexisStryfe]

Hah! Let's concentrate on one massive project at a time! 

If you are really that interested in the story feel free to go to my DeviantArt page. I haven't updated it in a while, but there is more art there with biographies on each of the characters.

ZexisStryfe's DeviantArt Site

[ZexisStryfe]

Made some progress over the last few days...

The computer parts came in for the build-



Computer Specs-

Motherboard- ASRock H81M-ITX/WIFI Mini-ITX board
CPU- Intel Haswell Core i5-4590 Quad-Core 3.3GHz Processor
Memory- 16GB Kingston DDR3 SDRAM
Video Card- eVGA GeForce GTX 750Ti Superclocked Card
OS Hard Drive- Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB SSD
Case- eVGA Hadron Air ITX Case

All that is left is for the 4TB Storage Drive to come in!

Since this is a build thread, here are some pics of the computer innards-



and fully assembled and running-



The computer is running Windows 8.1 (boot time is under 5 seconds!) with the front-end running as the shell.

I have also been working on cleaning up my ROM collection and building out a Maximus Arcade skin (I have decided on Maximus until GameEx Evolution comes out) while I wait for the next batch of parts to come in.

[ZexisStryfe]

Well that's not good...



After all the work of setting up the computer OS, when I removed the SSD to add the second drive the SATA connector snapped the port right off the back of the drive, basically making it an $85 paperweight...

At least my next patch of hardware came in-



TV- 32" Samsung LED TV
Speakers- Genius SW-G2.1 2000
USB Hub- Anker 7 port hub
Mount- VideoSecu Tilting Wall mount
Crimpers-  S&G Quick Change Ratcheting Crimpers (not pictured)

[ZexisStryfe]

My ParadiseArcadeShop order came in today!



8- IL Translucent Concave pushbuttons with Black Plungers
18- IL Translucent Concave pushbuttons with Translucent Plungers
2- IL White Player Imprint buttons
26- Il-lumination RGB LEDs
1- Button Wrench

After taking them out of the box however I noticed something about the fully translucent buttons-



I am not sure how well you can tell by the picture, but the button overhangs are two different shapes- one is totally curved and one has a slightly curved top with flat sides. All of the pushbuttons with black plungers look proper with the totally curved sides but 11 out of the 18 translucent buttons have the misshapen sides. Has anyone else experienced this?

Am I the only one whose perfectionist OCD would go crazy over this? Should I try to return the "misshapen" ones or am I just being too nit-picky?

[yotsuya]

Am I the only one whose perfectionist OCD would go crazy over this? Should I try to return the "misshapen" ones or am I just being too nit-picky?

FFS, no one is going to see those parts of the buttons. EVER. Do you really want to drag this out???

[ZexisStryfe]

FFS, no one is going to see those parts of the buttons. EVER. Do you really want to drag this out???

I am not talking about the imperfection on the button nuts, I am talking about the button overhangs that go on top of the panel. Here is the pic again with line to emphasize-



Because of the different shapes, they actually bend light that passes through them differently. I fear this will be exacerbated by the LEDs shining through them. There is also the fact that on the "misshapen" buttons the overhang isn't as tall, and as a result the plunger is exposed by about 1/16 " more on these.

It is actually extremely obvious in person. You can even tell the difference when looking straight down on them from the top because of the way the plastic bends the light.

[yotsuya]

FFS, no one is going to see those parts of the buttons. EVER. Do you really want to drag this out???

I am not talking about the imperfection on the button nuts, I am talking about the button overhangs that go on top of the panel. Here is the pic again with line to emphasize-



Because of the different shapes, they actually bend light that passes through them differently. I fear this will be exacerbated by the LEDs shining through them. There is also the fact that on the "misshapen" buttons the overhang isn't as tall, and as a result the plunger is exposed by about 1/16 " more on these.

It is actually extremely obvious in person. You can even tell the difference when looking straight down on them from the top because of the way the plastic bends the light.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, I see.... yeah, I'd contact them on that one. 

[ChanceKJ]

Oh wow! I've never seen that before. (Mind you I'm in my own little world quite often, so....)

I'm with yots' on that, I'd let them know and try and exchange them as it would bug the hell out of me too. I saw it right away and was like, huh... Strange.  Also, quite excited for this build. And what you're going to do with white and black plungers.


...did you make sure that LCD has a VGA port??? Or are you skipping the SLG?

Also, make sure you modify that button wrench. I almost destroyed an LED pack trying to use it the first time. It's in my thread if you haven't seen it.

[Nephasth]

Those are housings from convex buttons.

[ChanceKJ]

That makes sence. Maybe they were running out and just swapped them so they could fill the order. No big deal, I'm sure PA will take care of you, they've always been good to me if I had a problem.

Those convex housings look strongly bad ass if you had them for all your buttons though....

[ZexisStryfe]

It is interesting that those are the housings for the convex buttons. In my testing with a traditional light, the shallower curve on the top of those buttons results in almost no light diffusion though the plastic where as the ones with the more pronounced curve diffuse the light much better.

The white plungers will be used for the player 1 and player 2 start buttons. They will be swapped into the translucent housings. The black plunger buttons will be used for the Admin/Coin/Trackball buttons. The player buttons will be navy blue plungers from ArcadeSpareParts pushbuttons (if they fit) in the IL buttons.

Regarding SLG- I am opting out! I didn't want to use a physical scanline generator since I will be having several PC games on the cabinet as well (USF4, MK9, MKX, etc) that wouldn't look good with scanlines. That and neither my video card nor the TV have VGA ports (suppose I could do a DVI->VGA->SLG->VGA->HDMI frankencable). I will try out the scanline feature in MAME though and see how it looks. It is something I could always add later if I determine it is truly necessary.

[yamatetsu]

Quote from CraftyMech, maker of the mini SLG : "The mini SLG is an inexpensive, and compact scanline generator that is compatible with devices that output a standard VGA signal @ 640x480 (preferred) & 1024x768 resolutions."

These are the only two resolutions that will get the scanlines, so you will be able to play your PC games just fine.

[ChanceKJ]

Yep, it's what I use myself. Love that little thing.

Even has a switch on it to turn the effect on or off. I had originally contacted him to see if he could make me one with a couple leads on it so I could move the switch to the front I/O of my cab, but in the end I just always leave it on.

[ZexisStryfe]

So being that the screen runs at 1920x1080 (ish) do you force a resolution change through your emulators to one of the two supported resolutions as opposed to upscaling the picture to the native resolution?

[lamprey]

Just to end the two debates going on here-

1.) There will be no pinball buttons. There is no need since my next project will likely be a vPin machine.

2.) I will be going with the 360s for the joysticks. No debate necessary. I will be buying the long handles, octagon restrictors and harder springs and will play with the combinations to get what feels best.

No more debate necessary.

ZexisStryfe, I emailed with Andy (at Ultimarc) a while back and there is hope that the U360's with rotary support will be out soon. I don't know if you have purchased your U360's yet or if you even care about playing rotary games. But, if that is of interest to you, you might want to contact Andy for a status update before you order.

BTW, I like the design! Looking forward to see the build progress!

 

[yamatetsu]

So being that the screen runs at 1920x1080 (ish) do you force a resolution change through your emulators to one of the two supported resolutions as opposed to upscaling the picture to the native resolution?

Yep.

[ZexisStryfe]

Great! I guess "frankencable" will happen after all.

On a side note, I opened my Genius 2.1 speakers today to test them and they seem to be defective The control box has quite a bit of rattling around inside and I am betting something is broken/come loose, so back to Amazon with them! Replacement should be here on Tuesday.

While on the subject of the speakers, one of the reasons I bought these speakers is that they have the external control box with independent volume and bass controls along with several input/output jacks (mic, headphones, etc.). I would like to incorporate this control box on the exterior of the cabinet, similar to how Chance did, however from my cursory inspection it doesn't look like I will be able to take the control box apart. Any thoughts on a good way to do this?

[ChanceKJ]

I had planned on taking mine apart, instead I ran a headphone extention and a Griffin PowerMate and reassembled the control box.

Post a couple pictures of the box and let's see what the options are.

[ZexisStryfe]

Here you go-



I honestly don't care a whole lot about the Source and Standby buttons, it is only the volume knobs and the line in/outs.

[Nephasth]

Open that ---smurfette--- up. Desolder the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- you want to move. Solder wires in their place. Run wires to where you want to mount the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- externally. Solder wires to the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Badda bing. Badda boom.

[ZexisStryfe]

LOL I may have to do that... was just curious if anyone could come up with something simpler with less chance of me breaking something that has already come to me broken once. 

Not to bring up the "joystick debate" again but I have a question for those of you with the US360s... With the short shaft are they approximately the same height as the Happ competition joysticks? I have experience with the Happ sticks in wooden panels (I own the MK9 Fightstick) and they are a pretty good height. Since the discussion seems to point to the longer shafts resulting in some of the issues people are having I was wondering if I could get away with the standard short shafts on a wood panel.

[ChanceKJ]

Open that ---smurfette--- up. Desolder the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- you want to move. Solder wires in their place. Run wires to where you want to mount the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- externally. Solder wires to the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Badda bing. Badda boom.

Agreed.

As for the sticks. I tested my 360s with both lengths and I also had a few friends with varied experience give me their opinions and almost universally chose the longer shaft.

[ZexisStryfe]

Open that ---smurfette--- up. Desolder the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- you want to move. Solder wires in their place. Run wires to where you want to mount the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- externally. Solder wires to the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Badda bing. Badda boom.

Agreed.

As for the sticks. I tested my 360s with both lengths and I also had a few friends with varied experience give me their opinions and almost universally chose the longer shaft.

Great to know!

Here is a bit of the work I have been doing this weekend as I wait for more (and replacement) parts to arrive-

Maximus Arcade theme!

Emulator Select Screen-


Game Select Screen-


I am still working on the startup and loading screens... looking to do some flash animation there.