GM ASIO ALPHA 0.171

[intealls]

Just tried audio_latency 0.1 with 4 games and it works exactly like audio_latency set to 1, crackles and pops for a few seconds and then works perfectly.
Of course if i set the buffer size to 96 everything is fine.

Great, I might want to try this out, what game(s) and driver are you verifying this with? Is it the official SB driver or kX?

[Foxhole]

Just tried audio_latency 0.1 with 4 games and it works exactly like audio_latency set to 1, crackles and pops for a few seconds and then works perfectly.
Of course if i set the buffer size to 96 everything is fine.

Great, I might want to try this out, what game(s) and driver are you verifying this with? Is it the official SB driver or kX?

I tried Ninja masters, Street fighter Alpha Warrior's dream and Bad dudes vs dragon ninja.
I also use mame as my console emulator, so i tried comix zone too.
kX Driver.

[Foxhole]

Just tried audio_latency 0.1 with 4 games and it works exactly like audio_latency set to 1, crackles and pops for a few seconds and then works perfectly.
Of course if i set the buffer size to 96 everything is fine.

Great, I might want to try this out, what game(s) and driver are you verifying this with? Is it the official SB driver or kX?

I tried Ninja masters, Street fighter Alpha Warrior's dream and Bad dudes vs dragon ninja.
I also use mame as my console emulator, so i tried comix zone too.
kX Driver.

Sorry for the double comment, Pressed quote instead of modify by accident.

[intealls]

Ok, thanks for reporting!

[Foxhole]

One last update. Tried the d2x with 1ms (48 samples) and audio_latency set to 0.1 and it's working perfectly.

[intealls]

One last update. Tried the d2x with 1ms (48 samples) and audio_latency set to 0.1 and it's working perfectly.

That's actually pretty awesome - I might need to look over the audio_latency setting for the next release. How fast is the PC you're using?

[Foxhole]

The emulation pc with the d2x is actually isn't that fast. It's a quad core q8200 oc'ed to 2.9Ghz.
The one with the audigy 4, with the kx drivers, is in fact the faster one, I5-4570 3.2Ghz, and that's the one with the crackles, lol.

[RobertoFresca]

One last update. Tried the d2x with 1ms (48 samples) and audio_latency set to 0.1 and it's working perfectly.

That's actually pretty awesome - I might need to look over the audio_latency setting for the next release. How fast is the PC you're using?

I just wanted to say thanks for this ASIO build. It works great here with Realtek. I have a jesting though. Why do you say that LCDS need to enable multithreading? It works fine here without it.

Also, will you please release an ASIO diff that isn'the based on GroovyMAME?

I hacked together a build that doesn't have any of the switchres stuff, but who knows if I did anything wrong.

[Calamity]

Hi Roberto,

The multithreading option in GroovyMAME has a different implementation from baseline MAME. The way it's implemented has a double aim: improve input response and make asynchronous triple buffering possible (when required). The reason intealls is recommending it is to provide the best performance with regards to the combination on input, video, and audio latency, assuming the whole GroovyMAME implementation is available. If you only apply the ASIO diff, then probably it's best not to use multithreading which is known to be problematic in baseline.

By the way, do you think there's any chance that intealls' ASIO implementation could make into the official project?

[intealls]

By the way, do you think there's any chance that intealls' ASIO implementation could make into the official project?

I think this will be problematic due to the use of BASSASIO. But there are bits and pieces that in one form or another perhaps could make it into mainline, possibly the calibration frequency stuff and the audio update at end-of-frame etc. But currently it's probably best to view it as a recipe for low latency audio in MAME.

I just wanted to say thanks for this ASIO build. It works great here with Realtek. I have a jesting though. Why do you say that LCDS need to enable multithreading? It works fine here without it.

Also, will you please release an ASIO diff that isn'the based on GroovyMAME?

I hacked together a build that doesn't have any of the switchres stuff, but who knows if I did anything wrong.

Thanks! Sure, I'll fix one up later tonight.

The multithreading option in GroovyMAME has a different implementation from baseline MAME. The way it's implemented has a double aim: improve input response and make asynchronous triple buffering possible (when required). The reason intealls is recommending it is to provide the best performance with regards to the combination on input, video, and audio latency, assuming the whole GroovyMAME implementation is available. If you only apply the ASIO diff, then probably it's best not to use multithreading which is known to be problematic in baseline.

Absolutely, also, GM really does make things shine. Currently the absolutely closest one gets to the real thing is GM on CRT + ASIO + frame delay. Configuring ASIO and frame delay is still a bit tricky though.

[intealls]

Here's the patch for mainline, some minor changes needed to be done since GM handles game speed a bit differently.

Just like Calamity states, multithreading should not be used when run on mainline.

Also, thank you (and the rest of MAMEDEV!) for MAME! It really is an amazing project.

[big10p]

Hi

I've read about the frame delay benchmark in the OP but need it explaining a bit more, please. For example, I ran 'mame64 pacman -bench 10 > log.txt', and the log states:
frame delay/percentage: 8/100.00%
Average speed: 13005.98% (9 seconds)

So, this means I should use a frame delay of 8 for Pac-Man? I know percentage refers to "percentage of frame time", but don't really understand what that means.

Thanks.

[intealls]

Hi

I've read about the frame delay benchmark in the OP but need it explaining a bit more, please. For example, I ran 'mame64 pacman -bench 10 > log.txt', and the log states:
frame delay/percentage: 8/100.00%
Average speed: 13005.98% (9 seconds)

So, this means I should use a frame delay of 8 for Pac-Man? I know percentage refers to "percentage of frame time", but don't really understand what that means.

Thanks.

Hi,

Yes, as long as you're not using vsync_offset and syncrefresh is being used you could use a setting of 8.

[big10p]

Hi

I've read about the frame delay benchmark in the OP but need it explaining a bit more, please. For example, I ran 'mame64 pacman -bench 10 > log.txt', and the log states:
frame delay/percentage: 8/100.00%
Average speed: 13005.98% (9 seconds)

So, this means I should use a frame delay of 8 for Pac-Man? I know percentage refers to "percentage of frame time", but don't really understand what that means.

Thanks.

Hi,

Yes, as long as you're not using vsync_offset and syncrefresh is being used you could use a setting of 8.

I don't use vsync_offset at the moment, so that's OK. GM itself decides whether to use syncrefresh or not, doesn't it? If syncrefresh doesn't get used, should I just set frame delay to 0, for that game?

[intealls]

I don't use vsync_offset at the moment, so that's OK. GM itself decides whether to use syncrefresh or not, doesn't it? If syncrefresh doesn't get used, should I just set frame delay to 0, for that game?

If SwitchRes automatically controls the use of syncrefresh (which is definitely the preferred way of controlling syncrefresh), the frame_delay setting will not be used for games that do not use it. So even if you set frame_delay 8, if syncrefresh isn't used for the game, it will not use frame_delay at all.

[big10p]

I don't use vsync_offset at the moment, so that's OK. GM itself decides whether to use syncrefresh or not, doesn't it? If syncrefresh doesn't get used, should I just set frame delay to 0, for that game?

If SwitchRes automatically controls the use of syncrefresh (which is definitely the preferred way of controlling syncrefresh), the frame_delay setting will not be used for games that do not use it. So even if you set frame_delay 8, if syncrefresh isn't used for the game, it will not use frame_delay at all.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up, for me.

[sean_sk]

Hi intealls,

Thank you very much for your work on this. It looks like a very very interesting project and I'm quite keen to try ASIO out in GM.
I was about to ask if you had diff files available so I could compile my own GM ASIO and I just noticed them at the bottom of the first post. Doh!!!
I happened to have an old Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 lying around, that I forgot I had. I've just plugged it into my cabinet and installed KX Drivers. Very keen on trying this out. Probably try tomorrow.

[intealls]

Updated to 0.171, mainline is now supported with a separate patch. Check the build instructions page if building from source, since a slight modification was needed.

[brywalker]

I just have to say, after tons of testing this is incredible. I have always felt the disconnect in the audio latency was worse than the control lag. Now running this with d3d9ex with frame delay of 5 and I can't tell the difference between my jamma boards. Love it. Thanks for your collective hard work.

[intealls]

Thanks! The reason I started developing the ASIO stuff was GM on CRT and frame_delay. Now that the ASIO stuff works well it does come together quite nicely.

[brywalker]

Now on my bartop, it is working excellent as well. However, cannot enable HLSL at all .170 and .171. I haven't been able to confirm if it is this branch or anything but it's driving me bananas. 17" LCD in it. Here is my mame.ini, if you find something off. No errors, just runs with no filters. I refuse to use straight groovy now because of ASIO lol. One thing I noticed if I set refresh_dont_care to 0, switchres will not function at all (so probably why it's suggested on page 1). Thanks again!

ATi HD 3450 using crtemu_driver. Is there any benefit using Calamity's drivers with an LCD?

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[intealls]

Strange, have you downloaded the standard MAME package, and overwritten the executable with the GMASIO one?

With the version in GIT, I wasn't able to get HLSL working until the artwork path was set up correctly.

[brywalker]

Yeah. :/

Just did it again from scratch. Textbook. Even updated dx11.1 and re-installed the dx9 redistributable. No go. Really bums me out. I know the system is capable of it. No idea why it won't work. GLSL worked fine.

For giggles - my verbose log. Forced 640x480 just to try to get a low res option working since 1280x1024 didn't work.

**Last update - Did mame.exe pacman -hlsl. Worked with default garbage settings. Looked like hot poop. So there has to be something in my INI breaking something, or its just not reading it right.

Code: [Select]

C:\mame>mame.exe pacman -v
SwitchRes: v0.015m, Monitor: lcd, Orientation: vertical, Modeline generation: en
abled
SwitchRes: LCD vfreq range set by user as 50.000000-60.000000
SwitchRes: \\.\DISPLAY1: ATI Radeon HD 3470 (CRT Emudriver - WDDM v1.1) (PCI\VEN
_1002&DEV_95C0&SUBSYS_0B421002&REV_00)
SwitchRes: Device key: System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{071692DE-FF3F-4DA
A-9D3B-81CA90906D04}\0000
ATI legacy init
Switchres: Searching for custom video modes...
Switchres: [  1]  640x 480 @ 59 : system mode
Switchres: [  2]  640x 480 @ 60* : system mode
Switchres: [  3]  640x 480 @ 72 : system mode
Switchres: [  4]  640x 480 @ 75 : system mode
Switchres: [  5]  720x 480 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [  6]  800x 600 @ 56 : system mode
Switchres: [  7]  800x 600 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [  8]  800x 600 @ 70 : system mode
Switchres: [  9]  800x 600 @ 72 : system mode
Switchres: [ 10]  800x 600 @ 75 : system mode
Switchres: [ 11] 1024x 768 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 12] 1024x 768 @ 70 : system mode
Switchres: [ 13] 1024x 768 @ 72 : system mode
Switchres: [ 14] 1024x 768 @ 75 : system mode
Switchres: [ 15] 1152x 864 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 16] 1152x 864 @ 70 : system mode
Switchres: [ 17] 1152x 864 @ 75 : system mode
Switchres: [ 18] 1280x 720 @ 59 : system mode
Switchres: [ 19] 1280x 720 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 20] 1280x 768 @ 56 : system mode
Switchres: [ 21] 1280x 768 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 22] 1280x 768 @ 75 : system mode
Switchres: [ 23] 1280x 800 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 24] 1280x 800 @ 75 : system mode
Switchres: [ 25] 1280x 960 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 26] 1280x 960 @ 70 : system mode
Switchres: [ 27] 1280x 960 @ 72 : system mode
Switchres: [ 28] 1280x 960 @ 75 : system mode
Switchres: [ 29] 1280x1024 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 30] 1280x1024 @ 70 : system mode
Switchres: [ 31] 1280x1024 @ 75 : system mode
SwitchRes: Found 0 custom of 31 active video modes
SwitchRes: Creating automatic specs for LCD based on VESA GTF
SwitchRes: Monitor range 24850.00-29820.00,50.00-60.00,0.671,2.683,3.353,0.034,0
.101,0.436,0,1,480,480,0,0
SwitchRes: -resolution was forced as 640x480@60

SwitchRes: Entering switchres_modeline_setup
SwitchRes: v0.015m:[pacman] Calculating best video mode for 288x224@60.606060 or
ientation: normal

SwitchRes: [ 640]x[ 480]_(59=59.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 640]x[ 480]_(60=60.000000Hz)
   rng(0):  640 x 480_60.000000p 29.820000 [fract] scale(2, 2, 1) diff(10.00, 13
.08, -0.6061) ratio(2.222, 2.143)

SwitchRes: [ 640]x[ 480]_(72=72.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 640]x[ 480]_(75=75.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 720]x[ 480]_(60=60.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 800]x[ 600]_(56=56.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 800]x[ 600]_(60=60.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 800]x[ 600]_(70=70.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 800]x[ 600]_(72=72.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 800]x[ 600]_(75=75.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1024]x[ 768]_(60=60.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1024]x[ 768]_(70=70.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1024]x[ 768]_(72=72.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1024]x[ 768]_(75=75.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1152]x[ 864]_(60=60.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1152]x[ 864]_(70=70.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1152]x[ 864]_(75=75.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 720]_(59=59.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 720]_(60=60.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 768]_(56=56.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 768]_(60=60.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 768]_(75=75.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 800]_(60=60.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 800]_(75=75.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 960]_(60=60.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 960]_(70=70.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 960]_(72=72.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[ 960]_(75=75.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[1024]_(60=60.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[1024]_(70=70.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [1280]x[1024]_(75=75.000000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [pacman] (1) horizontal (288x224@60.606060)->(640x480@60.000000)
   rng(0):  640 x 480_60.000000p 29.820000 [fract] scale(2, 2, 1) diff(10.00, 13
.08, -0.6061) ratio(2.222, 2.143)
SwitchRes: Modeline "640x480_60 29.820000KHz 60.000000Hz" 23.856000 640 656 720
800 480 481 484 497   -hsync +vsync
Switchres: saving    system mode
Switchres: updating  Failed saving registry entry DALDTMCRTBCD640x480x0x60
SwitchRes: Setting option -rotate
SwitchRes: Setting option -noror
SwitchRes: Setting option -autoror
SwitchRes: Setting option -norol
SwitchRes: Setting option -noautorol
SwitchRes: Setting option -noblack_frame_insertion
SwitchRes: Setting option -multithreading
SwitchRes: Setting option -notriplebuffer
SwitchRes: Setting option -syncrefresh
SwitchRes: Setting option -waitvsync
SwitchRes: Setting option -keepaspect
SwitchRes: Setting option -filter
SwitchRes: Setting option -prescale 2
Video: Monitor 000000000034A248 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9Ex
window_proc: WM_NCACTIVATE
blit_lock = TRUE
Physical width 640, height 480
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = ATI Radeon HD 3470 (CRT Emudriver - WDDM v1.1
)
Direct3D: Adapter has Vendor ID: 1002 and Device ID: 95C0
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: Using StretchRect for prescaling
Direct3D: YUV format = RGB
Direct3D: Max texture size = 8192x8192
Direct3D: Device created at 640x480
Direct3D: First scanline: 16, Last scanline: 496, Break scanline: 496, Delay sca
nline: -33
blit_unlock = TRUE
window_proc: WM_PAINT
Blitting thread created
winwindow_video_window_create: blit_lock = TRUE
RawInput: APIs detected
Blitting thread started
Input: Adding Mouse #0: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #0: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Kbd #0: HID Keyboard Device
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 8
blit_lock = FALSE
window_proc: WM_PAINT:END
ASIO: Game is running at 60.606060 Hz, screen at about 60.000000 Hz
ASIO: Driver ASIO4ALL v2 initialized with latency 64,
      sample rate 48000.00
      audio latency is 0
      frame delay is 0
ASIO: Setting initial playback rate to 48000.000 Hz
Region ':maincpu' created
Region ':gfx1' created
Region ':proms' created
Region ':namco' created
Starting Pac-Man (Midway) ':'
Optional shared pointer 'patched_opcodes' not found
Optional shared pointer 'rocktrv2_prot' not found
Optional shared pointer 's2650_tileram' not found
Optional shared pointer 's2650_spriteram' not found
  (missing dependencies; rescheduling)
Starting Z80 ':maincpu'
Starting gfxdecode ':gfxdecode'
Starting palette ':palette'
Starting Video Screen ':screen'
Starting Speaker ':mono'
  (missing dependencies; rescheduling)
Starting Namco ':namco'
Starting Pac-Man (Midway) ':'
Optional shared pointer 'patched_opcodes' not found
Optional shared pointer 'rocktrv2_prot' not found
Optional shared pointer 's2650_tileram' not found
Optional shared pointer 's2650_spriteram' not found
  (missing dependencies; rescheduling)
Starting Speaker ':mono'
Starting Pac-Man (Midway) ':'
Optional shared pointer 'patched_opcodes' not found
Optional shared pointer 'rocktrv2_prot' not found
Optional shared pointer 's2650_tileram' not found
Optional shared pointer 's2650_spriteram' not found
Command.dat games found = 145
Average speed: 98.91% (18 seconds)
Switchres: restoring Failed saving registry entry DALDTMCRTBCD640x480x0x60
ASIO: Average callback timeslice usage: 0.487205
ASIO: Overrun/underrun: 0/1
window_proc: WM_NCACTIVATE
blit_lock = TRUE
window_proc: WM_DESTROY
blit_lock = TRUE
Blitting thread destroyed

C:\mame>

[intealls]

This is really strange.

I downloaded official MAME 0.171, and extracted the GMASIO executable over the old one. I used your ini, and HLSL worked. This was with an LCD. I did this from the command line, standing in the active MAME directory (mame64 samsho4). Are you using a front-end to launch GM?

[brywalker]

Ok. I started the ini from straight scratch and worked my way through it. I have no idea what was making it *not* work, but now it is working. I have settings I *like* at 1024x768 @ full speed, but I don't love it. Might throw a few bucks at a HD5450 - this HD3450 is just a bit weak. Plays well, sounds amazing.

Thanks for the help and keep up the great work. With all of the stuff going on with MAME right now, this is my go to version number/branch for some time. Nothing I really need added to it as far as games go, performance is sweet. No noticeable input lag and the sound is dead on. So away we go.

[krick]

What is the recommended/optimal hardware for using this build?

My motherboard has a Realtek ALC887 chip but I'm totally open to purchasing a dedicated sound card if it will give better results (or less hassle to set up/configure).

The only limitation is that it would have to be a PCIe x1 card.  This motherboard doesn't have any PCI slots.

[intealls]

What is the recommended/optimal hardware for using this build?

My motherboard has a Realtek ALC887 chip but I'm totally open to purchasing a dedicated sound card if it will give better results (or less hassle to set up/configure).

The only limitation is that it would have to be a PCIe x1 card.  This motherboard doesn't have any PCI slots.

It mainly depends on if you want to use frame_delay or not, if you want to use high frame_delay settings, you're best off with an overclocked G3258, the higher the clock the better. Also, for frame_delay, a relatively fast graphics card is recommended when using super resolutions (I use an HD5770).

If you're happy without frame_delay, and can live without being able to satisfactorily run cv1k games etc, you could get away with a Core 2 Duo, with an older GPU.

I currently recommend ASIO4ALL+Realtek. However, it does not appear to work with some frontends. Regarding PCI express cards with ASIO support, I've only been able to test one, the Xonar DGX, and that performs much worse than the Realtek+ASIO4ALL combo, it also performs worse than an old SB PCI card with the kX driver. I'd like to test the Juli@ XTe, but those cards are ridiculously expensive. Dr.Venom used this and that seemed to work very well.

[MtothaJ]

Just to say that this is a very worthwhile addition which substantially improves the Groovymame experience.
The difference is definietly noticable.
In terms of configuration, I am using a new but relatively modestly specced PC (G4400 Pentium CPU, Asus Z170M-Plus mobo, 16GB RAM, Asus HD 5450 1 GB video card, Win 7 x64) and can safely set all the latancy options to the lowest (audio latancy 0.1 in mame.ini and sample size = 64 in asio4all) without any degredation in performance.
Other options I have turned on are multithreading, tripple buffer and waitvsync.

[Arbee]

Just a note: with the MAME license change, this ASIO build is now illegal to distribute.  BASSASIO is not GPL-compatible; someone needs to write an ASIO driver for MAME that doesn't use BASSASIO in order to solve this.

[intealls]

Thanks for the heads up, it shouldn't be all that difficult to get rid of BASSASIO. Are there any extended plans to integrate PortAudio? Otherwise I'll start hacking away at a preliminary native ASIO implementation.

Also, am I right in thinking that 0.171 is still legal to distribute?

[krick]

The JUICE library supports ASIO and it's GPL...

https://github.com/julianstorer/JUCE

[intealls]

Thanks for the tip, didn't know about JUCE. I've been doing some tests with other libraries, but JUCE seems to be of higher quality.

[Calamity]

By reading this one would think adding ASIO support in a GPL licensed project is not possible:

http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/ASIO_Audio_Interface

The ASIO technology was developed by German company Steinberg and is protected by a licensing agreement which prevents redistribution of its source code.

Audacity, as an open source program licensed under the GPL, is therefore currently unable to support ASIO, despite being ASIO-capable (providing the user's sound device is similarly capable). If ASIO support were distributed in Audacity builds this would either violate Steinberg's licence agreement if the code were included, or conversely would violate Audacity's GPL Licence if the code were withheld.

I think I'm missing something. If the problem is redistributing the ASIO sdk headers with your own GPL project, wouldn't it be possible to just sort of rip off the required prototypes and structs and create your own header?

I find much more appealing the perspective of creating a native implementation, specially now that MAME osd is so modular, rather than resorting to (yet another) library. But perhaps it's just me understimating the task complexity.

[Arbee]

intealls: PortAudio is planned to be supported, and I have a preliminary MAME output module for it, but it needs help.  If you'd like to take it over, hit me (messdrivers at gmail).

Calamity: totally agreed, ASIO's licensing claims to say things that I'm not sure are actually legally possible.  So it's at a weird place wrt GPL software.

ETA: The LMMS Project says they do ASIO w/o Steinberg headers, so we might look at what they're doing.

[intealls]

By reading this one would think adding ASIO support in a GPL licensed project is not possible:

http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/ASIO_Audio_Interface

The ASIO technology was developed by German company Steinberg and is protected by a licensing agreement which prevents redistribution of its source code.

Audacity, as an open source program licensed under the GPL, is therefore currently unable to support ASIO, despite being ASIO-capable (providing the user's sound device is similarly capable). If ASIO support were distributed in Audacity builds this would either violate Steinberg's licence agreement if the code were included, or conversely would violate Audacity's GPL Licence if the code were withheld.

I think I'm missing something. If the problem is redistributing the ASIO sdk headers with your own GPL project, wouldn't it be possible to just sort of rip off the required prototypes and structs and create your own header?

I find much more appealing the perspective of creating a native implementation, specially now that MAME osd is so modular, rather than resorting to (yet another) library. But perhaps it's just me understimating the task complexity.

This is certainly unfortunate. A native WASAPI implementation could be a good, clean solution, but PortAudio offers lots and lots of stuff. We would get ASIO (although the user would need to get the ASIO SDK, build from source and not distribute the binary), WASAPI and WDM-KS all rolled into one, which sounds like a fantastic deal. I need to look into if PortAudio will add any latency, and also study it generally. But if I'm able to handle it I'll gladly help out!

The trickiest bit is probably how to deal with the resampling, which is really needed for ASIO to work properly (it could also make other APIs sound better as well). There are two variables that we need to resample the audio correctly, game speed and sound card output frequency. The output frequency is currently estimated through linear regression, and with mainline MAME, game speed is easy since it will (most of the time) be fixed at 100%. With GM+syncrefresh, it will vary a tiny bit, but the speed is available from the video subsystem (m_speed_percent).

MAME resamples the audio, but this resampler does not offer the granularity that we need without resorting to some sort of hack (integer rounding, so one possible solution is to switch between several rates for added resolution). A straight forward solution could be to rewrite the resampler for finer granularity, and also take into account playback frequency and game speed. But I need to look into how the details of this would work out, it could turn out messy. BASSASIO has a built-in resampler, which was used by the ASIO implementation, it simply resampled the audio again in the OSD layer.

[u-man]

Agree with Arbee and Calamity. MAME just needs a low-latency API equal to ASIO and Portaudio seems perfect for this, as it includes any OS platform and many different APIs (incl. ASIO).
http://git.redump.net/mame/tree/3rdparty/portaudio/README.txt
WASAPI on the other side is windows only and from what i know, it is not easy to program. It came from a Vista time and i dont think it has a good/stable future. It seems that low-latency is bounded with exclusive control over the used sound-card and that there are no(t) many alternatives. Any audio that goes through a OS controled soundcard is simply to slow for this task here.

Reading the license issues here, i am curious how far Portaudio can support ASIO, but the readme states that it supports ASIO  .
16.68 milliseconds is the amount of time of 1 frame in a 30FPS game, so in theory we need a low-latency of 16ms.< (emulation time for a frame not included of course) and i think this is not possible without exclusive control over the soundcard.

[intealls]

Agree with Arbee and Calamity.

If you read their posts, you can see two different strategies.

MAME just needs a low-latency API equal to ASIO and Portaudio seems perfect for this, as it includes any OS platform and many different APIs (incl. ASIO).

The only API on Windows that has the possibility of being equivalent with ASIO is WASAPI. ALSA is already fairly low latency.

It came from a Vista time and i dont think it has a good/stable future. It seems that low-latency is bounded with exclusive control over the used sound-card and that there are no(t) many alternatives.

DirectSound was introduced with Windows 95. Regarding the alternatives, there is one, which is WASAPI.

Reading the license issues here, i am curious how far Portaudio can support ASIO, but the readme states that it supports ASIO  .

Yes, it supports ASIO, but you need add to the ASIO SDK and build from source. MAME cannot be redistributed with ASIO functionality.

16.68 milliseconds is the amount of time of 1 frame in a 30FPS game, so in theory we need a low-latency of 16ms.< (emulation time for a frame not included of course) and i think this is not possible without exclusive control over the soundcard.

No. We need 0 ms latency for frame_delay. And also 1e3/30 = ~33.3.

[big10p]

In terms of configuration, I am using a new but relatively modestly specced PC (G4400 Pentium CPU, Asus Z170M-Plus mobo, 16GB RAM, Asus HD 5450 1 GB video card, Win 7 x64) and can safely set all the latancy options to the lowest (audio latancy 0.1 in mame.ini and sample size = 64 in asio4all) without any degredation in performance.

Sorry to interrupt the discussion briefly - just wondered about the audio_latency setting in MAME.INI. I assumed this setting was redundant/unused when using ASIO GM? If not, should I be setting it to 0.1, as above?

[intealls]

In terms of configuration, I am using a new but relatively modestly specced PC (G4400 Pentium CPU, Asus Z170M-Plus mobo, 16GB RAM, Asus HD 5450 1 GB video card, Win 7 x64) and can safely set all the latancy options to the lowest (audio latancy 0.1 in mame.ini and sample size = 64 in asio4all) without any degredation in performance.

Sorry to interrupt the discussion briefly - just wondered about the audio_latency setting in MAME.INI. I assumed this setting was redundant/unused when using ASIO GM? If not, should I be setting it to 0.1, as above?

If you aren't getting over-/underruns with 0.1, it should be fine.

[Calamity]

A native WASAPI implementation could be a good, clean solution

WASAPI would be cool although my suggestion was ASIO without Steinberg's headers, so you could actually distribute the resulting binary. A reverse-engineered asio.h header named "Vestige" is mentioned in many places. However I see the PortAudio approach more feasible.

MAME resamples the audio, but this resampler does not offer the granularity that we need

If the granularity problem is related to the m_speed variable being an integer, I guess this could be easily changed to use a float or any other way that provides an arbitrary degree of accuracy. From the top of my head, m_speed is just used in a couple of places, one being the final sound resampler, so the possibility of breaking something is limited. Although I'm probably missing the issue.

With regards to speed deviations due to dotclock's own granularity with syncrefresh enabled, this might be a minor issue in the future, once a real dotclock look-up table is implemented in Switchres, for those willing to take the time to build the dotclock table for their card and use super resolutions.