Gil's No Name Mame Cabinet

[Gilrock]

The Ultimarc inserts look like the middle picture you posted.  I measured them at 13mm so that is cutting it kinda close only leaving 3.8mm.  I'm sure I can cut a hole just fine but a slight over tighten might pop the MDF on the other side.  Guess I can practice on the old control panel since I had a cut a new one.

[PL1]

The GGG/Ultimarc style inserts are stronger, but those brass inserts should work fine as long as they are properly installed.

IIRC, some CNC builders have used those brass inserts to attach holddown fasteners that secure the work material to an MDF spoilboard.


Scott

[PL1]

Rodney posted this video several years ago showing how to use a drill press to install inserts.

The Ultimarc inserts look like the middle picture you posted.  I measured them at 13mm so that is cutting it kinda close only leaving 3.8mm.  I'm sure I can cut a hole just fine but a slight over tighten might pop the MDF on the other side.  Guess I can practice on the old control panel since I had a cut a new one.

Here are some 10mm deep inserts similar to the Ultimarc inserts. (no flange, wide/flat outer threads)

NOTE: The photo in the Amazon listing is not correct.  This PDF shows an accurate line drawing and here's a picture of them.




Scott

[Gilrock]

Cool thanks for that video.  Better than trying to do it with a hex wrench.  Luckily Ace was only 2 miles away to get the bolt for the jig.

[Gilrock]

Well I was supposed to receive my artwork Friday but USPS failed me and it never showed up.  Still on the way as of today.  I thought I'd be being installing buttons and joysticks over the weekend.  So instead I did some cleanup of the area around my pinball machines because the space underneath them had become a storage zone.  Then I started actually playing my MAME cabinet for a change instead of just spending all my time designing/building stuff.  Its not complete but with the old control panel I had bought I can still play.  I got into trying to play Defender and got frustrated trying to decide on which buttons to use and the button I could use for reverse with my left thumb was difficult to reach.  So I said to myself hey I designed this cabinet so that the control panel could be interchangeable so I'm going to build an exclusive Defender / Stargate control panel.  I'm not 100% sure how I'm going to make it where I can secure and remove multiple control panels but I'm thinking a couple round posts would be used to guide the panel into place so there would be 2 holes in the bottom of each panel that fits onto the posts.  I got the artwork drawn but I'm not at home to post it.  I looked at all the photos I could find and ended up with pretty much a copy of the Defender art in the middle.  But this panel will be a little larger so I had some extra space to fill.  I'd like to make the front of the control panel curve down so I'll be looking for posts talking about how to get a polycarbonate laminate attached to a curved control panel.

I wanted a 2-way joystick as close to the original as I could find.  Arcadeshop had a 2-way Williams Reprostick listed but no option to buy it anymore.  I ended up buying a GGG 2-way True-Leaf stick and leaf buttons enough to make the panel.  So just now I was searching for that reprostick to remember what I had seen for this post and I stumbled on another joystick at jbgaming.co.uk listed as a ZeroPlay 2way Joystick saying it's a direct replacement for the Defender joystick.  It's about $98 but I'm willing to buy it if its better than the other stick I ordered for this purpose.  Any thoughts?  What about the True-Leaf buttons from GGG are they going to feel like the original or was there a better choice?

[EMDB]

Well darn now I don't know what to use...lol.  The Ultimarc inserts were definitely a problem when the MDF was only 10mm but yeah maybe they would work in the 16.8mm region.  The other guy said he uses those brass inserts (E-Z Lok Threaded Insert, Brass, Knife Thread, #8-32 Internal Threads, 0.375" Length) and he showed me a picture that looked like MDF so he had me convinced they were the way to go.  I'll have both in my hands by this afternoon.
Edit: That's the picture he sent me its not my panel.

The inserts should be at the bottom of the CP so you can replace the stick without touching the top (artwork, plexi).

[Gilrock]

Well darn now I don't know what to use...lol.  The Ultimarc inserts were definitely a problem when the MDF was only 10mm but yeah maybe they would work in the 16.8mm region.  The other guy said he uses those brass inserts (E-Z Lok Threaded Insert, Brass, Knife Thread, #8-32 Internal Threads, 0.375" Length) and he showed me a picture that looked like MDF so he had me convinced they were the way to go.  I'll have both in my hands by this afternoon.
Edit: That's the picture he sent me its not my panel.

The inserts should be at the bottom of the CP so you can replace the stick without touching the top (artwork, plexi).

Yeah I'm well past that issue if you read further I posted photos after getting the inserts installed and designing custom mounting plates.  There was no existing artwork this is a new build and I was installing the inserts on the bottom the whole time it was the 10mm thickness that made it a challenge.

[Gilrock]

This is the modified Defender control panel redraw I did over the weekend that I'm thinking of using for a 2nd control panel.  I was hoping to build a curved panel so the bottom part of the art would face forward.

[Gilrock]

Well my artwork finally arrived a week late and I got that installed so I'm starting to mount the hardware I bought 4 years ago.  Being heavy into pixels for my Christmas show I had ordered everything on the control panel to be lit with RGB.  RGB buttons, joystick knob, and trackball.  Well now I'm starting to look at these RGB buttons and its looking like more hassle than it's worth.  I found one video where a guy was showing Ultimarc Classic RGB buttons but they did not look like they assemble like mine.  I couldn't find any tips or instructions on the Ultimarc website.  And searching on this site sucks because every time I hit the back button it says my previous page expired.  So the button parts are shown below.  I assume I'm supposed to put that diffuser over the led but it is not easy to get it down very far.  I tried installing it and the button hits the diffuser.  Only thing I can think of is to cut half this diffuser off so I can assemble it with a shorter profile.

[Gilrock]

Installed the artwork and T-molding.  I decided to keep it fairly generic so I created a weave pattern trying to make it look carbon fiberish.

[J_K_M_A_N]

Does that (or is that going to) have plexi/lexan on it or do people just go with the good vinyl now? I had lexan on my last two but I really want to do some graphics on this build. I am just not sure if I should cover it with lexan.

J_K_M_A_N

[Gilrock]

Mine already has an 1/8" piece of plastic in that photo I just didn't mention it.  I have a plastic shop in town and I just tell the guy I need it to be clear and I'd like it to cut well on the router.  The paper on the back of this plastic says Makrolon.  The guy that prints my artwork gave me the option of whether I wanted polycarbonate laminate over the graphic.  I said I don't even know what that is but the artwork is going under plastic and he said ok don't get the laminate if you're covering in plastic.  If not covering then he recommended the laminate because it protects the art better.  I think it's like a 3 mil laminate over the art.

[Gilrock]

Controls are installed just need to start wiring it up tomorrow.

[Mike A]

That CP looks nice. Simple is best.

[Gilrock]

Well I've now got an extra couple hours work.  I wasn't happy with how the wires exit the button.  I couldn't find a good way to insure the corner of the part that moves at the bottom wasn't going to be rubbing or clipping the wires.  Like I said these were 4 years old and I had ordered a few new electrolux buttons for the admin buttons and I noticed they had a better design.  So now I'm disassembling all the buttons to drill an exit hole for the wires.  I think the time spent will be worth it not having to repair something later.

The original design on the right and my mod on the left:

[Gilrock]

That CP looks nice. Simple is best.

Thanks.  It was probably some of your advice that led me that way.  I do listen to all the input.  I even ran into another post that was a few years old yesterday where you were telling someone to forget the RGB buttons.  If I had gotten that earlier I probably wouldn't have them either.  But there is always next panel.  I guess this panel will be my flashy lighting panel.

I'm already wanting to build two other panels.  I'm going to probably do a dedicated Defender and Robotron panel.  I just can't decide if I want to make the panels work for this cabinet or build a new one.  After doing more browsing around I started getting interested in building a new cab with a CRT but they seem hard to find or know which ones to look for except the Makvision but I saw a couple posts saying they didn't hear good things about the Makvision but nobody actually spelled out what's wrong with them.

[Gilrock]

Got the panel wiring done today.  Tested everything but the 4way/8way motors.  Everything worked except one joystick only lights up green and blue...red is broken.  I was like darn it couldn't it be any other led on the board where I would have spares.

[Drnick]

That there is some sweet sweet wiring 

[luizw81]

Sweet wiring indeed.  My panel looks like a ball of yarn caught in a briar patch.   

[Gilrock]

Yeah it was a pain trying to organize all the extra wire.  I would prefer to cut them to length but I didn't want to wait to buy a bunch of pins for all the RGB stuff so I used the premade wires and had to fold all the extra length back into the bundle.  I had to extend a few wires so I used heat shrink solder connectors for that.

[javeryh]

Very nice wiring and very clean CP - a definite winner!   

[Gilrock]

The new servo stick illuminated handle arrived yesterday.  I swapped it out with the one that had a broken red led.  Fired up Robotron and only the player 2 joystick lit up red and I'm like WTF.  I started to get mad thinking I made a mistake diagnosing the problem.  I remembered swapping harnesses and proving it wasn't cabling.  I'm thinking no way I got two bad sticks in a row.  So I calm down and exit Big Box and fire up the LedBlinkyInputMapper.  Whew....the led is lighting up all colors just fine which definitely wasn't the case for the first stick.  So then there was just a second issue where I had to add some more mappings in LedBlinky for the joysticks.

These joysticks feel so much nicer than what was on my old control panel.  I've mainly been playing Robotron and with the 4way/8way restrictor plate it feels like cheating its so easy to hit the diagonal shots now and I find it harder to shoot up/down whereas the old sticks were the opposite.  Its been so many years I forget what the original Robotron felt like.  I assume it was just circular motion.  I've played so much Robotron the past 2 weeks I convinced myself I wanted to build a Robotron clone.  So instead of making additional control panels for this cabinet I'm going to build a Robotron clone and possibly build additional Defender and Joust control panels to swap in.  Several parts already on order so if you see me get quiet on this cabinet its because I'm building that one.

[Mike A]

If you build a Robotron panel and you really love Robotron, slow down a second. Do it right. The joystick and the spacing both matter. Go to KLOV there are always people selling refurbished Wico sticks for Robotron. Get those. If you have your heart set on new sticks, Arcadeshop sells reproduction Wicos. I can't vouch for them. I have never used one of their repros. They haven't been around long.

[Gilrock]

If you build a Robotron panel and you really love Robotron, slow down a second. Do it right. The joystick and the spacing both matter. Go to KLOV there are always people selling refurbished Wico sticks for Robotron. Get those. If you have your heart set on new sticks, Arcadeshop sells reproduction Wicos. I can't vouch for them. I have never used one of their repros. They haven't been around long.

I should probably start a new thread for the new effort.  I did a ton a searching threads about Robotron joysticks last week and the problem was I kept finding so many different opinions.  I don't remember the original sticks so I'm not too stuck on anything particular I just want whatever plays the best.  I was already ordering leaf buttons from GGG so I added a couple Dominux8 joysticks to that order.  There were folks on this forum saying they felt great for Robotron.  I also was looking at used sticks on Ebay and it looked like I was rolling the dice on whether they were in good shape or I'd have to figure out how to do some grommet upgrade I was reading about.  Not sure I've even discovered KLOV I know I've seen the name.  I've ordered a JROK multi-Williams board from Arcadeshop as well as a Robotron marquee and control panel art so I plan to have the 10" spacing.  If their Wico version is better than what I ordered I'll add them to the order.  I just thought I got steered the other way by something I read but I can't find it right now.

[Mike A]

KLOV.com

Go there. Join the forums. There is tons of information there.

[Gilrock]

Thanks...just signed up.  I do tend to buy things too quick but I try to do research first I just crunch it into an hour or two.  I've already received my Defender joystick clone from jbgaming and it looks pretty nice but I really want to build the Robotron CP first.

[Mike A]

I will turn you to the dark side.

[Gilrock]

I will turn you to the dark side.

As in non-lighted controls?

[Gilrock]

Now I'm agonizing over the monitor.  I hear everyone saying CRTs are the way to go.  I did a bunch of searching and couldn't figure exactly what I should be looking for.  I ended up ordering the 19" Vision Pro LCD from Arcadeshop because it looked like they were saying these are installed to fix old machines and I saw the JROK had the ability to fake the scanlines.  Now I'm doing more reading and I keep seeing everyone saying CRTs are the only way to fly.  I'm just a rookie when it comes to different CRTs and I keep reading 100 threads where people spend all their time trying to get them working properly.  I used to own a Hanaho games ArcadePC which had a CRT but I gave it away to a friend and his kids.  I didn't know they were collector's items now.  I should see if they are using it and try to get it back.

[Mike A]

Craigslist has been a good place for me to pick up CRTs. The KLOV forum also.

[Gilrock]

Is there anything particular to look for in a CRT?  Like I checked craigslist earlier today and saw a 20" Magnavox flat tube TV for $30.  I can't see the back but the front has RCA jacks.  I've ordered a glass bezel which should be the same size as the original so I need a tube that will work with whatever was in the original.  I thought it was a 19" from reading so I assume a slightly larger 20" would work if I can adjust the size.

[Gilrock]

Looks like I'd need an encoder board to convert RGB to composite to get that TV to work.  Of course I called the phone number and it was disconnected.  Post is only 3 days old.

[Gilrock]

Well I hope I can make this work.  The guy contacted me back and I drove across town and picked up this Magnavox 20" for $30.

[Arroyo]

Well I hope I can make this work.  The guy contacted me back and I drove across town and picked up this Magnavox 20" for $30.

Start reading in GroovyMame extensively.  It can seem intimidating at first but as you keep reading you’ll gather a lot of good info.

Good on ya for picking up a 20”, that’s a good size.  Your problem is going to be getting a quality signal to it as it’s a standard TV.  The good news is that most of these TV’s are able to be modded to accept a RGB signal.  Composite stinks, it just does, and if you settle for it you won’t reach the CRT nirvana that you would have experienced in arcades. 

It can seem intimidating but check out ways to mod your CRT to get a quality noise free signal:

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=56155

Just to give you a sense of the difference in quality here are some photos:





Look at the top of the T in the word ConTrol.  You’ll notice that it is blurry in the one and clear in the other.  That’s actually with a component connection but one running at interlaced frames and one in progressive (original resolution).  So even with a good signal, without using GroovyMame to get the correct resolution you won’t get the ideal look that your going for.

As someone who’s gone through a lot of searching recently (and still exploring) I’m happy to help, as it’s definitely a great way to go.

[Gilrock]

But I ordered the JROK wSYSFPGA Williams board so I wouldn't be using GroovyMame.  That was the appeal to me not having to mess with building a PC.

[Arroyo]

But I ordered the JROK wSYSFPGA Williams board so I wouldn't be using GroovyMame.  That was the appeal to me not having to mess with building a PC.

That’s cool, it will still output RGB and unless you want to degrade the video quality you’ll want to be able to get the quality signal into your TV. 

First time I messed with a CRT I bought a HDMI to composite converter.  It worked but always felt weird, looked crappy, and timings seemed to be off.  Once I got into more detailed understanding of how the connections and CRT technology worked I quickly learned that the experience can be drastically different with a good signal, both in look and in game play (lag of input, sound sync, etc.).  If you’re interested I can post links to read up on the topics.

[Mike A]

This is one of the reasons you need to slow down a bit. The JROK board outputs rgb, but also VGA. You have options. Take Arroyo's advice. Put down your wallet for a bit and do some reading. If the TV doesn't work for you it is still great for console games. Buy yourself an NES and a multicart. You are on the right path now.

[Gilrock]

I've been reading for several days.  I'm not seeing what I did wrong here.  First I asked is there anything to look for in a CRT.  Then I saw that TV on Craigslist so I went back to read the JROK info and his website pointed me to an encoder board that could convert the RGB output of the JROK to the composite TV input.  So I posted again and said looks like I need that converter to use that TV.  So then the guy contacted me before anyone had replied to my posts so yeah I hurried to get the TV cause I don't know how long a Craigslist item would be there.  And I ordered the encoder board before I left the house to hope Arcadeshop could add it into my order about to ship.  I know I don't know as much as you guys on this CRT stuff but I have done more reading the past couple weeks than it may seem.

[Gilrock]

But I ordered the JROK wSYSFPGA Williams board so I wouldn't be using GroovyMame.  That was the appeal to me not having to mess with building a PC.

That’s cool, it will still output RGB and unless you want to degrade the video quality you’ll want to be able to get the quality signal into your TV. 

First time I messed with a CRT I bought a HDMI to composite converter.  It worked but always felt weird, looked crappy, and timings seemed to be off.  Once I got into more detailed understanding of how the connections and CRT technology worked I quickly learned that the experience can be drastically different with a good signal, both in look and in game play (lag of input, sound sync, etc.).  If you’re interested I can post links to read up on the topics.

Thanks for the feedback.  I didn't see your reply when I first looked this morning wasn't till I was checking my email I saw you had replied.  Yes I already had the idea after you mentioned it that if it was possible to hack into the RGB output I could do that but I still wanted to get the RGB to Composite converter board so I could run the TV when the JROK gets here.  I also noticed when you take a screenshot of the TV it doesn't look the same as what you see during the live video.  The screenshots always look worse.

[Arroyo]

Yes I already had the idea after you mentioned it that if it was possible to hack into the RGB output I could do that but I still wanted to get the RGB to Composite converter board so I could run the TV when the JROK gets here. 

I get it, it’s good to have options and be up and running quickly.  I mentioned it cause until you see the difference in quality of picture a lot of people might settle with that connection thinking it’s as good as it can get.  Just to give you a sense:



That’s left to right ->RF (coaxial), -> composite, -> S-video, -> RGB over YUV(component), and Direct RGB on a PVM monitor.  More can be read here:
[url=https://www.retrorgb.com/rgbmonitors.html]https://www.retrorgb.com/rgbmonitors.html[/URL]

EDIT: by the way in the picture above second from right showing a RGB over component I think misrepresents the quality you can get out of a non-PVM monitor.  Here’s an example from my setup which is a component connection to a Sony WEGA:

I also noticed when you take a screenshot of the TV it doesn't look the same as what you see during the live video.  The screenshots always look worse.

It can look pretty accurate with the right lighting, but yeah it’s never quite the same as in person.