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Shortest/Longest distance between joystick and PB
IAmDotorg:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 18, 2014, 03:22:56 am --- Other than that, proximity doesnt matter. (just look at how close your fingers and hands are, on a Laptop keyboard.
--- End quote ---
If that was true, there wouldn't be such a thing as ergonomic keyboards. Proximity does matter, quite a bit, because if you end up using the controls (or keyboard) with an angle through your wrist, it'll lead to fatigue or things like carpal tunnel. You can put them close together, but you need to properly set the angle on the buttons so you don't need to have your wrist all bent to the side. You can see that in the evolution of arcade cabinets -- generally the closer the buttons are to the joystick, the more of an angle they're set at. And frequently if you have a two player cabinet, they'll angle both sets outwards a little to keep the players from having to twist their wrists even farther because of being next to each other.
That wasn't really understood back in the 80's and 90's (which is why keyboards were equally bad), but it is now, which is why you rarely see new cabinets with straight grid layouts and the buttons jammed right up against the stick.
Vigo:
To be fair, in the 70's and 80's there was no realized need for ergonomics for an arcade game that the average player would be playing for 2 minutes at a time. and I'm sure computer companies were just happy if they could build a keyboard where all the keys simply registered the keystroke on the first press. Ergonomics was a known concept, maybe a bit less developed, but I have some 80's workplace training videos at work that cover it.
Generic Eric:
I think the neo-geo, street fighter and multi williams layouts are a decent guides.
Also, Klaus:
Xiaou2:
--- Quote from: IAmDotorg on August 18, 2014, 08:15:08 am ---
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 18, 2014, 03:22:56 am --- Other than that, proximity doesnt matter. (just look at how close your fingers and hands are, on a Laptop keyboard.
--- End quote ---
If that was true, there wouldn't be such a thing as ergonomic keyboards. Proximity does matter, quite a bit, because if you end up using the controls (or keyboard) with an angle through your wrist, it'll lead to fatigue or things like carpal tunnel. You can put them close together, but you need to properly set the angle on the buttons so you don't need to have your wrist all bent to the side. You can see that in the evolution of arcade cabinets -- generally the closer the buttons are to the joystick, the more of an angle they're set at. And frequently if you have a two player cabinet, they'll angle both sets outwards a little to keep the players from having to twist their wrists even farther because of being next to each other.
That wasn't really understood back in the 80's and 90's (which is why keyboards were equally bad), but it is now, which is why you rarely see new cabinets with straight grid layouts and the buttons jammed right up against the stick.
--- End quote ---
He asked how "FAR" , *** NOT *** what Angle.
And your completely wrong about the Ergonamics in the 80s crap.
First, see Gauntlet.
Next, play a game of Star Wars, on an original controller. See those angled handles? You know why? Try making the same up and down motion in the air, with and without an angle. Notice how your wrist wont go as far when they only move in the vertical plane?
The arcades games were designed and tested FAR more than games these days. And mechanically speaking... many of the controllers went through many revisions and countless abuse tests, before they were considered the final produced product that would go on the machines.
Now, if your talking about most of those idiotic 'curved' button layouts... well, that was and still IS a joke. Its a farce. It actually makes it far less ergnomic... as it produces stresses from the flatter hand position, that has less mechanical leverage to operate it. Not to mention, that everyones finger spacing is going to be vastly different from a flat layout... meaning that such a layout will be Completely unplayable.
Not to mention, that All of these layouts need to be used with the Flat of Convex buttons... which are far less comfortable. Ever wonder why... (before the advent of cost saving and 'style') keyboards have a cupped shape? Yup... its to help keep them comfortably centered, so you dont slip off the key. So you know where your fingers actually are... and can feel and adjust, if you start to get too far off.... all without Looking (which is another reason why the keys are placed in a straight line. Angle, sure.. as needed... but angle them all along the same line angle)
If anyone has seen an elder cabinet with poor button spacing - without an angle... then you have probably just witnessed an Operators "Conversion Kit". Ops often drilled holes wherever they felt like it... despite instruction diagrams often provided. Some used existing cabs, and used them As-IS.... rather than the change the control panel. Hence, it was a fault of the Ops, and not the arcade companies.
If some faults exist... then its a very Rare exception to the rule... and probably was never repeated again.
Xiaou2:
Ohh, and Btw ... As I type all of these massive Walls of text... for the many years Ive done so... I do not have any Carple Tunnel issues...
YET... my wrist are currently bent at the forearm - to form about a 35 to 45 degree angle, while typing on this Laptop.
The wrists are made to flex a bit, and thats not really the big issue in such injuries. The problem comes from a constant, no-rest, usage... and the person not flexing and stretching the wrists often.. using a full range of motion roll and or shake.
As such, the muscles and tendons get way too tight... and start to knot up, and things get Ugly from there.
Many people have back injuries due to a similar reason. If your back into stretched and flexible... the muscles will be taught. If the muscles twitch suddenly, and voilently.. they will pull the very bones they are connected to, out of place. Hence, often need a Chiropractor to pop them back in place... as well as a lot of rest and relaxation, for the swelling, tearing, and injured / inflamed areas... to get back to normal.
So, if you are doing something with incredible intensity... non stop, rapidly... take many short breaks, and roll, stretch, and shake out the stress. Take a few deep breaths in and out to increase the O2 content, as well as to increase bloodflow pressure... and shake the blood back into the area of tension. As often, a tense area of use can get places where the tension has caused bloodflow to be weak in certain areas... and that compounds the issue over time.
This is why its so important in any straining situation, to breath regularly rather than to clam up and hold your breath. And why things like Martial arts... Tai Chi, Qigong, and even Yoga... promote and create great positive health changes. Slow deep constantly intense breathing, with the motions. Super saturation of o2, with a relaxed state of the body. Relaxed and flexible muscles, that work with fluidity, and graceful 'pinpoint precision' control.