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| Leaf style Pushbuttons and their differences |
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| leapinlew:
Some games benefit much more than others. Defender is the best example I can think of, but Track and Field is definitely a close second. Some games require rapid fire while others have a more set rate of fire. Mortal Kombat is a game that wouldn't matter if it were microswitch or leafs. Same with Galaga. Personally, I just like to have no loud clicky noises coming from the games. |
| Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---But my nature is to argue when I smell ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---, so here goes: --- End quote --- Well, lets start with the Obvious. You immediately dispense a nasty and negative comment. From my experience, (personal and witnessing it in others later... ) People whom tend to use such negative language and expression.. tend to have poor self control, and little to no self respect. Hence, if you dont respect yourself... why would you respect someone else? What you are doing is Pre-Assuming - or - Presuming.. on the side of negativity... and since your Ego is so grand, you want to defend the the stuff that it represents.. in the form of a Presumptious Attack. One you believe you will win.. which will make it all the more good for your Massive Ego... You see... theres a big difference between you and me. When I point things out... such as when someone does a Stance incorrectly In the Martial Arts... I dont tend to make fun of them. I tend to spend time explaining why what they are doing is incorrect. I have good reasons and examples to back this.. as well as a wealth of experience in the area, from hardcore, high speed, heavy contact, sparring bouts... usually against Ops about 2x my mass and strength. I dont do it for the Ego boost. Ego means NOTHING in the face of a real Life and Death situation... and what I studied, was solely towards that end. Not for some gaudy looking ego-boasting figurines (Trophies). Its all good and fine if you like sport based competition... and while you still are effectively better than having no skill... you still are not combat level prepared. Most all of the arts have been intentionally watered down, to take away the power from the people... to keep them from much harsher rebellions. Yup, this may in fact hurt someones ego, when they feel so lofty and good about their Trophy collection... and the very hard effort they had invested to get there. But it is the very fact that you attacked me... and so when I dish it back... you get all bent out of shape.. then try to tell me I should be Nicer in the face of your Attacks. Its in fact your Ego that cant handle being dismantled. Let it go, and you can grow. --- Quote ---Here is your first problem X2, you assume that MY experience, knowledge, and intelligence is what needs to be "deprogrammed" and enlightened. My advice to you has mostly been to give you an example of how to express your opinion without offending EVERYONE. Some day you might see that you are not the only person on the planet with some form of intelligence. But then after reading this post from you, maybe that day will never come... --- End quote --- Well, here is your 2nd problem. You Assume that Im making assumptions. Wrong. I reply with information, based on whats needed.. or on the actual evidence in the reply. And many times, I try to stay clear of personal issues... but when someone like Mel keeps attacking me, even when Im not even around... well then, its time to put him in his place.. because clearly he DOES have issues. Big issues. But its funny how your grand backhanded 'im helping you', turns into a negative, at the end... --- Quote ---Now, perhaps I am reading things wrong here --- End quote --- - This. Its a good start. Admitting your not sure. But then after.. its based on assumption, rather than a further question.. --- Quote --- it seems pretty darn clear that you are saying VERY SPECIFICALLY that the proper way to use a leaf is to just barely press the button once you find exactly where it makes contact so that you never bottom it out. Yet somehow you can ALSO argue that the problem with the leafs is that they bottom out. --- End quote --- You are missing the boat again. The argument here, is about a 1980s style classic leaf switch button & holder assembly + its leaf switch... *** VS *** The NEW modified Happs microswitch button assembly, with a different kind of leaf switch installed in a very different way. - The older leaf buttons have something like twice the depth of travel than the Happs microswitch buttons. - This makes it easier to keep from bottoming out a button... leading to discomfort and slower speeds. I find it somewhat surprising that you dont know the difference... being that these things are staples to the hobby. But Ill give you the benefit of the doubt.. and assume that its your youth and inexperience... And NO... You do not press the 80s leaf buttons with a light touch.. you can lay your fingers on them with good pressure, and they will not accidentally fire on you. This keeps your fingers loose, relaxed, and ready to react much faster than someone who had to maintain stiff control 'hovering' lightly on a button. Next, you will press the old button to fire... at normal strength and speed... but it wont bottom out, so long as you do not use over-bearing brute force. The older leafs are beefier and put up a very strong resistance once you get to them.. and start to bend past them. In case you didnt know... theres also a second spring on the old leaf buttons as well. A microswitch button however, does not have the travel space to do such a thing. You press a happs button at the same intensity.. and it will ALWAYS bottom out. A huge Part of this is due to the shorter travel. The rest is due to the way a microswitch works. But when we talk about the Happs button with the Newer leafs in them.. its still the same story. Use the same intensity press as a normal microswitch press... and it still will bottom out... even if you bend those thinner new leafs to hell. Part of this is that the new leafs are not meant for heavy pressure. The new leaf-button is designed to be bottomed out. The new leaf springs are not capable of putting the kinds of resistance and bounce that the older leafs can. Again, this is due to the designers thoughts.. that the button SHOULD bottom out. The designer, did not understand the reasoning of whys and the benefits of the older design. He could only see the mechanical downfalls. The ORIGINAL designers knew the downfalls, and chose to use them anyways... due to the better feel and playability, lower fatigue, faster responses...etc. --- Quote ---(The irony here is that for decades people have complained that I am too verbose, and here I am telling YOU that you are using so many words that if you had a valid point, it was completely lost a long time ago.) --- End quote --- The Irony here.. is that you dont even know what we are talking about, and chose to jump into the argument. --- Quote --- Again, you are making an assumption that your opinion is superior to everyone else's. You claim I don't know you, yet that also means you don't know me, so how is it you can assume you have a clearer understanding of anything, or superior experiences in anything? I have only counter-argued two points with you on this forum, and in both cases it was clear you assumed that your working knowledge of the facts you were using was second to none, yet in both cases you also couldn't apply the entire set of facts to a working solution. Here you openly admitted that there were a bucketload of flaws in the "old school" leaf switches, and that most of those flaws were addressed in the current leaf switches that are on the market. Yet you still maintain that the old original ones are the superior ones. This is contradictory. --- End quote --- NO. its NOT contradictory! The older leafs do have a mechanical flaw... that will probably take a home user, about 30 yrs of play before they occur. (Springs eventually lose their flex strength, due to fatigue) Lets apply this in speaker technology... You can make a speaker that lasts forever with todays technology... but.... does it SOUND better???!!! nope. Older leaf buttons PLAY BETTER !!! About 1000x better. Less fatigue. Quicker rapidfire bouts. Far superior comfort. Just because they will eventually fail, does not make them worse. In fact, almost EVERYHING made, will eventually fail. - Cars brakes & Shocks? - Fail - Precision crafted engines with ridiculous tolerances? - Fail. - Tires? - Fail - LEDS? - Fail. - Bearings - Fail. - Springs - Fail. - Metal - Fail (Rust) NOTHING lasts forever. Especially if its mechanical in nature. But even if it DID last forever.. it doesnt change the reality, that something that performs and or feels better, is more desirable... and thus, superior. --- Quote ---Whenever you draw a conclusion about something, if you decide that certain data is important to you and other data, no matter how pertinent to the subject, simply isn't important to YOU, the conclusion you derive is OPINION, not FACT. The facts of the data you have presented here show that each button type has its place. Yet you try to maintain that ONLY the buttons YOU like are the ones worth having, and that if people would just see it through your extensive experience, they would understand that you are right. I bet there is a personality disorder that fits this type of behavior... --- End quote --- Ive stated over and over, that each type of button DOES in fact have its place. - Microswitches - best for modern fighting games. - Old School leafs - Best for classic and rapidfire games. - Re-make leafswitch's in a microswitch body - better suited to fighting game. The issue I have, is someone trying to pass off these buttons are being a replacement for the older Leaf buttons. Its not even CLOSE to being accurate. Thats like trying to sell a surgeon a Sword, instead of a scalpel. Or a dentists, a hand drill. Its not even close to how the originals work.. and the reasons why they are pretty much a requirement for playing certain games. So again, your lack of information, had placed a lot of Egg all over your face. |
| leapinlew:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 02, 2014, 01:36:16 pm --- The argument here, is about a 1980s style classic leaf switch button & holder assembly + its leaf switch... *** VS *** The NEW modified Happs microswitch button assembly, with a different kind of leaf switch installed in a very different way. - The older leaf buttons have something like twice the depth of travel than the Happs microswitch buttons. - This makes it easier to keep from bottoming out a button... leading to discomfort and slower speeds. --- End quote --- Uh, no. The discussion is about Rollie Leaf Switch vs Ultimarc's Goldleaf vs GGG's Micro-Leaf Pushbuttons vs GGG's True-Leaf Pro. You'll notice you start in the 3rd post bashing all the buttons. Later in the thread you admit to not really trying the new buttons. I can assure you that with even the slightest bit of configuration, you can easily rest your fingers on a button and fire by finding the sweet spot in the button and the travel is more than enough to not be an issue. Look at it this way, right now we are bus drivers and you are mouthing off about the inferiority of laserdiscs. If you experienced the setups I have, I can assure you that you would quickly stand down from your current position or at the very least you would decide that at least some of the replacements out there are at least equal. Brother, quit eating your unseasoned hamburger and join us for steak! lol |
| yotsuya:
Someone in this thread needs to get laid. |
| Xiaou2:
--- Quote from: leapinlew on August 02, 2014, 03:41:53 pm --- --- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 02, 2014, 01:36:16 pm --- The argument here, is about a 1980s style classic leaf switch button & holder assembly + its leaf switch... *** VS *** The NEW modified Happs microswitch button assembly, with a different kind of leaf switch installed in a very different way. - The older leaf buttons have something like twice the depth of travel than the Happs microswitch buttons. - This makes it easier to keep from bottoming out a button... leading to discomfort and slower speeds. --- End quote --- Uh, no. The discussion is about Rollie Leaf Switch vs Ultimarc's Goldleaf vs GGG's Micro-Leaf Pushbuttons vs GGG's True-Leaf Pro. You'll notice you start in the 3rd post bashing all the buttons. Later in the thread you admit to not really trying the new buttons. I can assure you that with even the slightest bit of configuration, you can easily rest your fingers on a button and fire by finding the sweet spot in the button and the travel is more than enough to not be an issue. Look at it this way, right now we are bus drivers and you are mouthing off about the inferiority of laserdiscs. If you experienced the setups I have, I can assure you that you would quickly stand down from your current position or at the very least you would decide that at least some of the replacements out there are at least equal. Brother, quit eating your unseasoned hamburger and join us for steak! lol --- End quote --- Yes I did try them, in my hand. Its very easy to feel that they were way too easy to depress.. and that the travel was far too short to keep them from bottoming out. They are not optimal for, and Id never install them on my games, such as my Asteroids Deluxe. Any extreme bending of the switches will not change the nature enough to fix the design problems. It will also shorten the lifespan of the blades.. due to you expediting the fatigue of the metal. Also, your Galaga Statement... it not true. Galaga does have its rapidfire moments, most especially when the strings of enemies roll in... but more important than that.. if your any good at all with that game.. you will be playing for spans up to and over 8 min easily. That amount of button pressing will start to wear you down... if your using the wrong kind of button. If your using an older style leaf, with the "Floating" method... then you wont be fatigued at all. Trying to use a microswitch however... and your going to be aching. I know this very well... because, way back in the day... I took pretty much all of the leafswitches out of the arcade I was managing / repairing. Not only were there complaints.. but I myself felt the difference, and re-installed the leafs on certain games.. despite the more challenging maintenance. |
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