Main > Main Forum
Leaf style Pushbuttons and their differences
jimmer:
For what it's worth, I just put one of my true leafs in the lathe and modified the travel up from 2.3mm to 3.5mm.
Much better more to my liking now.
Guess I'll find out in a few weeks? months? if it causes maintenance issues.
leapinlew:
--- Quote from: jimmer on August 01, 2014, 07:26:58 am ---
For what it's worth, I just put one of my true leafs in the lathe and modified the travel up from 2.3mm to 3.5mm.
Much better more to my liking now.
Guess I'll find out in a few weeks? months? if it causes maintenance issues.
--- End quote ---
The word on the street is your true leaf is garbage. Sorry dude. ;)
dkersten:
X2 - What I should say is that after reading your rant, you should see someone about that. I am sure that a little therapy will help your condition.
But my nature is to argue when I smell ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---, so here goes:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm --- De-Programmer /On
WakeUp Mode /On
--- End quote ---
Here is your first problem X2, you assume that MY experience, knowledge, and intelligence is what needs to be "deprogrammed" and enlightened. My advice to you has mostly been to give you an example of how to express your opinion without offending EVERYONE. Some day you might see that you are not the only person on the planet with some form of intelligence. But then after reading this post from you, maybe that day will never come...
So, you said:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm ---It will bottom out, despite your best efforts to keep it from happening.
--- End quote ---
To which I replied:
--- Quote from: dkersten on July 30, 2014, 05:11:36 pm ---Wait, you claim that you use a light touch where you hover over the switch and barely press it, so why would it matter to you if it bottomed out?
--- End quote ---
Then you said:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm --- That is Not what I said. The reply should clear it up, if you take the time and effort to understand it.
--- End quote ---
YET, in your immediate prior post you closed your argument with:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm --- This assumes you know the proper way to use an old school leaf:
- Knowing that you dont have to use the full travel of the button. The leaf will depress about a mm or two.. and will activate somewhere in the upper-middle point. The rest of the travel is made to absorb and rebound the forces, without any collision shock forces (unless your hitting the buttons like sledge hammers).
- Knowing how to "Float" the button. By first getting to the contact point.. and then lightly vibrating your fingers.. you can cause the contacts to open and close in distances at small as thin sheet of paper. This makes for really fast repeated rapidfire action... but requires about 85% less energy to do. Since there is plenty of space after the contacts touch... you are easily able to maintain the action without accidentally bottoming out to an impact
--- End quote ---
Now, perhaps I am reading things wrong here, it seems pretty darn clear that you are saying VERY SPECIFICALLY that the proper way to use a leaf is to just barely press the button once you find exactly where it makes contact so that you never bottom it out. Yet somehow you can ALSO argue that the problem with the leafs is that they bottom out.
You are either contradictory in your logic or just suck at getting your point across, even with 10 times the words to do so.
(The irony here is that for decades people have complained that I am too verbose, and here I am telling YOU that you are using so many words that if you had a valid point, it was completely lost a long time ago.)
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm ---There are good reasons for what I protest. For one, its to make people aware, and for them to demand better.
--- End quote ---
Again, you are making an assumption that your opinion is superior to everyone else's. You claim I don't know you, yet that also means you don't know me, so how is it you can assume you have a clearer understanding of anything, or superior experiences in anything? I have only counter-argued two points with you on this forum, and in both cases it was clear you assumed that your working knowledge of the facts you were using was second to none, yet in both cases you also couldn't apply the entire set of facts to a working solution. Here you openly admitted that there were a bucketload of flaws in the "old school" leaf switches, and that most of those flaws were addressed in the current leaf switches that are on the market. Yet you still maintain that the old original ones are the superior ones. This is contradictory.
Whenever you draw a conclusion about something, if you decide that certain data is important to you and other data, no matter how pertinent to the subject, simply isn't important to YOU, the conclusion you derive is OPINION, not FACT. The facts of the data you have presented here show that each button type has its place. Yet you try to maintain that ONLY the buttons YOU like are the ones worth having, and that if people would just see it through your extensive experience, they would understand that you are right.
I bet there is a personality disorder that fits this type of behavior...
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm ---Some people are brought up with low quality experiences ... such as an extreme example.. of never have ate a Steak. Only a Hamburger at best.. and those Hamburgers, were not ever seasoned well. They simply do not know what they are missing... and ... and they will even take offense to someone who calls it out as it is... because to them... its the best Hamburg they have ever Ate...
--- End quote ---
A) you ARE making an offensive comment, but you think it is offensive because I might like my hamburger and think it is the cat's meow. But that isn't what offends me. What offends me is that you have the gaul to assume that YOUR experiences in life are of a higher quality than mine. What gives you the idea that somehow you have experienced anything in life that is better than what I have experienced?
B) Taste, just like most things, is different for each person. Perhaps I LIKE unseasoned meat over seasoned meat. And perhaps the way YOU season your meat tastes horrible to me. And the bottom line is that it would be YOUR OPINION that steaks are better than hamburgers. Regardless of whether someone has experienced a wider variety of beef or not, you are starting with the assumption that YOUR OPINION is a fact, and it simply isn't. To some, an unseasoned hamburger is better than a steak any day of the week. You won't understand this though. Matter of fact you are most likely thinking "this guy is an idiot to think that a hamburger is better than a steak." This is your biggest flaw.
And let's talk steaks for a moment (although this applies to ANYTHING involving opinion). It so happens that I HAVE experienced more than just a burger, and in fact have eaten steak at the finest steakhouses in the world. And when it comes down to it, I would take a Texas Roadhouse 8 oz sirloin over ANY of them. That's right, that $80 prime cut filet at Mortons isn't as good as the $10 TR sirloin to me. And the funny thing is that NOTHING you say can convince me otherwise. I don't care if it is a prime cut of the most flavorful filet that was cut from a premium wagyu cow, dry aged for a year and then prepared to perfection by a master chef, I will still take a cheap $10 steak over it. But I won't try to argue that FOR YOU the Texas Roadhouse steak is better. That is the difference between me and you. I understand that my opinion only really applies universally to me, and while I might be ready and willing to discuss my opinion with others so that they may have a better understanding of a subject, I will never try to tell them that I am more right than them. It would be futile to do so. Sure, sometimes it's fun to argue your different points of view, but at some point both people need to acknowledge that it is a matter of opinion, and nobody can state that opinion is fact.
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm ---Well, obviously, anyone who has had the pleasure and experience of eating both... would laugh at that logic... but to them, you are just being too critical and are a complete snob, troll, and negative Nancy.
--- End quote ---
Obviously? I just gave you an example of personal experience where you are wrong. Period. You can't say "obviously" when talking about opinion. I HAVE experienced eating them both, and I still PREFER what you would call "inferior". And you ARE a snob, troll, or negative nancy if you think for even one second that I should think differently.
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm --- Im sorry if its offensive to you... and hard to accept that the things you may like & love .. are not as Glorious as once thought.
--- End quote ---
But see, they ARE as good as I think, TO ME. Just as the things you like are just as good as you think they are, TO YOU. But until you learn the difference between OPINION and FACT, you will always be the "snob".
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm --- That you were submarined by the powers that run the world, into being born to live in a generation where a good deal of things made, are in fact made with cheaper materials, shoddy craftsmanship, planned to fail parts, toxic chemicals / injected foods, some of the most audacious levels of worldwide corruptions ever so blatantly flaunted, with freedoms that are being dangerously whittled away each day...
--- End quote ---
And as a whole, humanity LOVES it. And then there are those people like you who can't embrace change based on the idea that because a few things were made better in the past, that the past was somehow a better time to live. Yet we live longer now, have a FAR better (nearly infinitely better) quality of life today than we ever did, and particularly those of us in prosperous countries, live a lifestyle that has never been so luxurious in all of human history.
And there is no secret "power" out there that is trying to corrupt everything, there is only humanity. The fact is, people with craft skills decided they were too good for what they were being paid, and started demanding more, and as a result, skilled labor got extremely expensive while materials and automation got extremely cheap, and you saw a shift in overall quality. Greed and elitism killed craftsmanship, not some secret power hellbent on destroying the world. And since you seem to have an overabundance of elitism, if you need someone to blame for the lack of quality in some of the goods available today, look in the mirror.
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm --- I dont need to have the latest and greatest.. or even the anything near the 'best'. Couldnt afford it anyways. But I, like anyone else... has the right to complain about things that are unacceptable, in poor taste, lacking in features, output, detail, quality, durability...etc.
--- End quote ---
As long as you can't just accept what you can afford and be happy with it, you will never be happy. Just sayin..
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 08:36:45 pm ---Whats most disturbing, are people like you.. whom do not even have a Clue about the vastness of the differences... and are throwing rocks around at people whom Do have a clue. People whom do have experience with all aspects, have both actual parts! , and knowledge depth, that you lack. Why? Popular Opinion? Defending the Generation? Defending the Opinions and Egos of the "Clan" of similar posters.. ?
--- End quote ---
No, what is most disturbing is that you somehow think that you are the only person here with a clue or some kind of depth of knowledge. You assume that EVERYONE here are a bunch of lemmings who will just accept the path everyone else is on.
The irony is that your entire argument here is based on the idea that what was originally conceived 40 years ago is somehow superior to what everyone here has come up with by thinking outside the box and exploring new ways of doing things. In my book, that makes YOU the lemming trying to stick to an outdated and antiquated path that was long ago abandoned by the masses for good reasons.
You are so full of yourself that it is a wonder you haven't exploded and covered all your superior old school technology with the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.
AzureKnight:
--- Quote from: RandyT on July 31, 2014, 11:27:00 pm ---When I designed the CLASSX button, I drew from experience gained through arcade gaming since before there were color arcade games, and also using the originals in my own home-built control panels in the early eighties. After collecting multiple authentic panels and actual machines from the early days of arcade gaming, noting the inconsistent (and sometimes incorrect) installations on those panels and taking note of the complaints, regarding adjustment and contact wear, often repeated by operators and enthusiasts, I set out to revive leaf switch buttons by addressing those concerns. Based on the very positive feedback I have received from actual users, I believe I have succeeded to a more than substantial degree.
Had I wished to merely duplicate a 30 year old design, with all of it's flaws, it would have been much, much simpler....and far less costly, as the molds for these already exist. But then, none of the shortcomings would be corrected, so there would be no value in doing so.
.....
I think the rest of you kind folks will really like it, and that's why we keep putting our butts on the line. ;)
--- End quote ---
Slightly off topic here, but relevant to Randy's post. I'm finally starting my build after gathering parts for 4 years. Randy, on my last order of parts you sent me some Groovy Standard Soft-Touch Microswitches. Another one of those innovations from you and your experience in this field.
I hate you! In a good way :cry: :applaud:
I now want to replace all my switches (that I haven't even installed yet) with soft-touch ones....they are so much nicer to my sense of touch than the standard microswitch.
So thank you, I think :D
More on topic, I don't recall from my arcade going youth the big difference between a leaf and micro switch but I have to say I am curious, I may have to order a few and see how they feel (for me I'm sure the newer options will work just fine).
lamprey:
--- Quote from: AzureKnight on August 01, 2014, 02:00:35 pm ---More on topic, I don't recall from my arcade going youth the big difference between a leaf and micro switch but I have to say I am curious, I may have to order a few and see how they feel (for me I'm sure the newer options will work just fine).
--- End quote ---
Don't order a few, get all that you need. That will save you on shipping for the next order you'll make to get the rest of the leaf switches you didn't the first time! ;)