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Leaf style Pushbuttons and their differences

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Malenko:

when you quote him, I can see his text.  :-[


Just accept that you are rong rew , its the only way!  :applaud:

dkersten:


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 30, 2014, 04:00:57 pm --- You missed the Boat.

 Doesnt matter if you adjust it.  The travel can Never be the same as a real Leafswitch assembly.   It will bottom out, despite your best efforts to keep it from happening.

--- End quote ---
Wait, you claim that you use a light touch where you hover over the switch and barely press it, so why would it matter to you if it bottomed out?

Sounds like you are just looking for a reason to be able to say something is inferior.  Also seems to be a common thread with you. 

I have a bit of advice for you:  Learn how to compromise and be able to choose the best option when there isn't a perfect option, because in life there is almost never something "perfect" for you.  Everything in life is about compromise, and the person who spends their entire life waiting for everything to be exactly what they want is going to die unhappy and unsatisfied.

Xiaou2:


--- Quote from: leapinlew on July 30, 2014, 04:34:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 30, 2014, 04:00:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: leapinlew on July 30, 2014, 08:17:38 am ---RandyT is right in that X2 made a goof by not configuring. Leafs aren't like Microswitches and require some tweaking from time to time. This is a rookie mistake. You simply put the metal pins closer/further apart for your personal preference for travel. For my defender setup, I have a very short distance of travel.

In a lot of games, I couldn't tell if it were Microswitches or Leafs, but with defender - it would be pretty easy to tell.

--- End quote ---

 You missed the Boat.

 Doesnt matter if you adjust it.  The travel can Never be the same as a real Leafswitch assembly.   It will bottom out, despite your best efforts to keep it from happening.

--- End quote ---

It's a leaf - why would you worry about it bottoming out? For my configurations, I make the buttons very light touch to reduce the travel. Bottoming out isn't really a concern. Why are you so concerned about it?

--- End quote ---

 Your still missing the Boat.


 Think about this, as if it were your PC Keyboard... and you were at work, trying to type up some long emails and important documents.    If the keys / buttons are too sensitive..  you run a risk of accidental contact.
More that likely, you will probably make about 50 times as many mistakes.. in a mere 3 minute period of typing.   You would want to strangle the person who had the idea to create something like that... because its way too straining to maintain a  "Butterfly's touch"  over a set of keys / buttons  for long periods of time.   This kind of strain isnt good for you... and it can cause you to develop very stiff / tight muscle & tissue strands, forming injuries like "Carpel Tunnel".  It could also cause extreme violence in the workplace.  lol

 So, you WANT an area of decent tension and enough travel distance away from the contact zone, that allows you to REST your fingers on the buttons with almost or completely "Zero"  need to support them with your muscles.

 Once you decide it.. You then press into the button deep enough to get to the contact zone area.  Once there, you can easily stay in that zone, vibrating the contacts open & closed, with distances as fine as a thin piece of paper.    It takes no real strength, and barely any effort.   The energy is always rebounded like a spring or bungee cord..   so its easy to keep its momentum forces in action.  Similar to a professionals High-Return  Trampolines.


 After the Contact area... the spring forces start to amplify..  and that helps further keep you from bottoming out.   

 If the springs were too light.. you would always bottom out. 
 If the springs were Average, but the space between leaf and the bottom-stopper .. was much more shallow...  it wouldnt have enough distance for collecting all of that force... before you hit the endpoint.
 If the springs were Stronger, it would take too much force to operate repeatedly.  In addition, it would slow things down a Lot.

 If you make it so that the Top of the Leaf is spread very far from the bottom leaf...  you are gaining in more top resistance, more so that the typical spring thats used in the button assembly...  but also,
you can actually half the leafsprings lifespan easily... as bending springs too far, causes quicker metal fatigue.    It also means that the top spring will travel way too far on each press.. and further speed its degradation... that is... if there wasnt a nice bottom to crash into...    And then were are back to square 1.

 You have to realize... that the precise manor of the designed angles, spacing, components, and materials physical qualities..  are what create the magic here.   Any methods that do not use the same principles of operation, will never work well, or as well, for the desired effect.


 Even if you cant fully wrap your brain around the physics of this button / spring stuff..  Im sure you can easily understand a more broader and simplified explanation...

    Think of how many tools there are to cut wood.   Each of these tools has a specific feel, use, advantage, disadvantage... etc.   You can use a hand saw..  but thats going to be a real pain compared to a Jigsaw.  Lots more effort, a lot less work done in the same time.   The Jigsaw totally stinks for precision, and the tablesaw or even a bandsaw.. blows it out of the water... and its far more uncomfortable.. with its constant vibrations.   There are those thin blade Coping saws, which can cut fine details in tight spaces, that a handsaw just couldnt achieve.

 While many machines/tools..etc..   look similar..  with experience, we often find out that these supposedly small differences,  are actually quite huge and important...  and why one thing will feel and function great.. where as others.. do not do so well in the tasks required / desired.


 

 Shock Force - Repeated Info


 If you bottom out a button... its like jumping on a diving board thats hovering a few inches over a concrete block.   Upon jumping on it... it smashes into the block.. and the shock force travels right into your skeletal system... as well as the tissues.   It doesnt feel that good... especially when done for a long time periods under heavy stress.   It also slows down the speed potentials of repeated action... due to a lot of the momentum being lost on an abrupt impact.   

 Do not bother with the newton ball examples, as your gushy digits are not anywhere near as conductive, nor are they devoid of painful sensations and internal degradations.    Your very skin absorbs a lot of the forces..  but it still takes its toll on you over the course of time.

 In a normal classic leaf assembly, that energy is stored in the spring, and is re-used over and over again, with minimal loss. 


 With a Fighting game, or a game thats not very  "Rapidfire /  Intense"  , you dont need to worry about this...  and in these cases, its most often better to have that strong resistance, and that solid hard snap and crashing thunk..  to make sure that the actions were accurate and deliberate...  rather than accidental.

 However, with Rapidfire games, such as Halleys Comet...  it would kill you to try to use a microswitch for any length of time.   You will fatigue way too easily and quickly... and your fire rate wont be a 10th of what you could get with a real leaf button.

 This assumes you know the proper way to use an old school leaf:

  - Knowing that you dont have to use the full travel of the button.  The leaf will depress about a mm or two..  and will activate somewhere in the upper-middle point.  The rest of the travel is made to absorb and rebound the forces, without any collision shock forces  (unless your hitting the buttons like sledge hammers).

 - Knowing how to "Float"  the button.   By first getting to the contact point.. and then lightly vibrating your fingers.. you can cause the contacts to open and close in distances at small as thin sheet of paper.  This makes for really fast repeated rapidfire action...  but requires about 85% less energy to do.   Since there is plenty of space after the contacts touch... you are easily able to maintain the action without accidentally bottoming out to an impact.

 


leapinlew:


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 31, 2014, 07:17:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: leapinlew on July 30, 2014, 04:34:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 30, 2014, 04:00:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: leapinlew on July 30, 2014, 08:17:38 am ---RandyT is right in that X2 made a goof by not configuring. Leafs aren't like Microswitches and require some tweaking from time to time. This is a rookie mistake. You simply put the metal pins closer/further apart for your personal preference for travel. For my defender setup, I have a very short distance of travel.

In a lot of games, I couldn't tell if it were Microswitches or Leafs, but with defender - it would be pretty easy to tell.

--- End quote ---

 You missed the Boat.

 Doesnt matter if you adjust it.  The travel can Never be the same as a real Leafswitch assembly.   It will bottom out, despite your best efforts to keep it from happening.

--- End quote ---

It's a leaf - why would you worry about it bottoming out? For my configurations, I make the buttons very light touch to reduce the travel. Bottoming out isn't really a concern. Why are you so concerned about it?

--- End quote ---

 Your

 
--- End quote ---

That's as far as I got with your post and it's a typo.

Slippyblade:


--- Quote ---This assumes you know the proper way to use an old school leaf:
--- End quote ---

This statement is why I just tend to scroll past X2 posts.  His way is the "One true way" and no other way has any merit, regardless of reality.

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