Check out what the Howler Controller can do!

[ChanceKJ]

Can't help but feel that this has some relevance...



Especially parts 3 and 4. (Start around 00:14:20 if you want to skip the movie/music bit, but that's worth a watch too)


As a consumer, I welcome choice.

As an educated consumer (and you pretty much have to be in this hobby) I will chose what product works best for my application. Do I chose a board from an overseas vendor that I've dealt with in the past? Do I chose one that was designed pretty much 15 minuets away from my front door?  None of that really matters to me in my case, I'm the consumer and I will buy what's best (based on features) for my project. Case in point: I had planned on an ipac for my first build, but switched to a Lono2 at the zero hour because I felt that it was better for my application. Did that stop me from still buying my trackball, LED boards, and four joysticks from Ultimarc, nope. The diversification of product offerings kept my money flowing to PA, GGG, and Ultimarc. Partly because I have choice.

Do these products both encourage people to join the hobby? Yes, to some degree they do. That's good for us all.

[yotsuya]

I again want to thank all involved for the frank discussion and to the mods for letting this tread play out (and not deleting this thread like happened previously).

Agreed. The difference between this thread and that one was that this one has stayed civil and on topic. 

[spoot]

Claiming combining two already existing boards that were on the market for years is ripping sumone off is silly IMHO.  It's like saying Samsung owed Apple $1billion for "rounded corners".

[pbj]

I can remember the days of the outrageously priced J-PACs and "clearly you've wired it wrong" tech support.  I'm glad to hear he's changed on that front, though.

I was going to let this go but its praying on my mind. The price of J-PACs has never changed since we launched it.

I wonder if you could PM me your email address so I can check what I actually said as I would never intend to reply to a support question in such a way.

Well, I distinctly remembering those things dropping in price ~$20 right after Groovy Game Gear started selling the EcoWhiz, but perhaps you were simply getting them into American distributor hands and it was just the "cost to get it to pbj" dropped.  Or maybe I was delighted there was finally some competition.   

[Generic Eric]

Claiming combining two already existing boards that were on the market for years is ripping sumone off is silly IMHO.  It's like saying Samsung owed Apple $1billion for "rounded corners".

eleventy!1!!

The hardware side of this hobby is totally about miniaturizing and stuffing things in small holes and minimizing overheating whilst illuminating buttons. 

Frankly it is a wonder it took so long for someone to bring this to market.  Watching from the sidelines I would have bet that the vendors have had this in the waiting. Furthermore, I don't see this any different than the console manufacturers waiting to see whom among them is releasing the next gen first.

Did you not already know I wanted the smallest, cheapest pcb that could give me all the inputs? 

I also want a board, that I can load mame on whenever it is updated along with all of the aforementioned  inputs and a built in craftymech slg.  Preferably one that can output for arcade monitor, rca, svideo, rgb, vga, dvi, hdmi.

[SavannahLion]

Thanks for the compliment but I really dont understand why this is "disappointing"...  I have reacted in a business-like way.

I feel the same way, have been a big supporter of Andy's and am disappointed.  My dissapointment is based in the culture and definition of OSHW: http://freedomdefined.org/OSHW#Open_Source_Hardware_.28OSHW.29_Statement_of_Principles_1.0 
Josh released his product under this definition and the ultimarc product is clearly

4. Derived Works
The license shall allow modifications and derived works, and shall allow them to be distributed under the same terms as the license of the original work. The license shall allow for the manufacture, sale, distribution, and use of products created from the design files, the design files themselves, and derivatives thereof.

but is lacking

6. Attribution
The license may require derived documents, and copyright notices associated with devices, to provide attribution to the licensors when distributing design files, manufactured products, and/or derivatives thereof. The license may require that this information be accessible to the end-user using the device normally, but shall not specify a specific format of display...

Josh has no requirements for attribution in combining the functionality of commercial products that are closed source into what was a unique form factor with enhancements.  According to the principles of OSHW, Andy does have a requirement to provide Attribution.  This is true even if the OSHW specs were derived from the kickstarter pages instead of formal OSHW design files.

It can be argued that Andy made design improvements that warrant the release of a  derivative.  If the market gets exposure to the Howler compared to the ubiquitous I-Pac brand, the market will decide.

I again want to thank all involved for the frank discussion and to the mods for letting this tread play out (and not deleting this thread like happened previously).

This is directed to you and Ark. As of my last two postings, Josh has NOT complied with OSHW, specifically #1 which is to have all of that documentation easily available. You can't reasonably hit on Andy for points 4 and 6 from OSHW when Josh hasn't even released the source as I had asked in my very first post and as required for OSHW.

#4 can't apply because there are no design files.

In addition, in #6 the keyword is may not shall. Josh never specified or complied with OSHW so it would be unreasonable to assume that attribution is a requirement when it is clearly optional by the designer. If the designer never specifies what is expected but makes it clear he is using OSHW, what is expected?

[AndyWarne]

http://freedomdefined.org/OSHW#Open_Source_Hardware_.28OSHW.29_Statement_of_Principles_1.0 
Josh released his product under this definition and the ultimarc product is clearly

4. Derived Works
The license shall allow modifications and derived works, and shall allow them to be distributed under the same terms as the license of the original work. The license shall allow for the manufacture, sale, distribution, and use of products created from the design files, the design files themselves, and derivatives thereof.

Whoa hold on.

You seem to be suggesting I have used design IP from the Howler.

I think it should be pretty clear I didnt. I used no IP from it at all. In fact it appears that no IP has ever been released.

Did I look at the Howler specs? Yes

Did he look at the specs of our boards? Yes. We know this as he stated on his website that he looked at what was available on the market. He stated there was no board available which handles control input and LED output (not strictly true as our U-HID has always done that). He then assumed that just because there was no such board available at the time, that there would never be another such board available. That was many months ago. Things move on...

Just one last point for the record. On the (closed) Hyperspin thread, it was stated that I:

"bashed my product on their site. It also really bothers me that they deleted my post on their forum"

I did nothing of the kind. I dont have any admin rights over this forum and I have not mentioned the Howler once on our website.

[engg100]

I will be releasing the firmware and hardware source in the next week or so. I honestly have been SUPER busy programming, testing and shipping out all of the Howler boards (and dealing with a monster of a toddler and a full time job). I also want to clean up the code a bit so I am not flamed out by the programmers...

Also to clarify, Andy DO NOT use any IP from the Howler at all. Since the IP has yet to be released and he obviously has the skills to do all of this himself.

Enough with the flame war already, I was only upset because this device came out at the exact same time as the Howler with nearly the exact same specs without my knowledge but as Andy said, "Business is Business" and having multiple offerings out there is good for the community. Also, removing my original post from Andy's thread was what started it all but lets just let it go and continue on with the hobby.

If I wanted to make money from this I would not have made it open source (I actually had to take out a significant loan in order to build up an inventory of boards), I did it because whenever I show my friends my system they are in awe and we sit there for hours and play all the classic games from when we were kids and forget about all the bills we have to pay, kids we have to take care of, and wives we have to please...

Thanks,

Josh

[yotsuya]

I will be releasing the firmware and hardware source in the next week or so. I honestly have been SUPER busy programming, testing and shipping out all of the Howler boards (and dealing with a monster of a toddler and a full time job). I also want to clean up the code a bit so I am not flamed out by the programmers...

Also to clarify, Andy DO NOT use any IP from the Howler at all. Since the IP has yet to be released and he obviously has the skills to do all of this himself.

Enough with the flame war already, I was only upset because this device came out at the exact same time as the Howler with nearly the exact same specs without my knowledge but as Andy said, "Business is Business" and having multiple offerings out there is good for the community. Also, removing my original post from Andy's thread was what started it all but lets just let it go and continue on with the hobby.

If I wanted to make money from this I would not have made it open source (I actually had to take out a significant loan in order to build up an inventory of boards), I did it because whenever I show my friends my system they are in awe and we sit there for hours and play all the classic games from when we were kids and forget about all the bills we have to pay, kids we have to take care of, and wives we have to please...

Thanks,

Josh

Well said, Josh! Good luck with the product. 

[yotsuya]

Oh, and to get this thread back on topic, I'm curious about the accelerometer functionality. Do you need to wire something in for that?

[engg100]

@yotsuya: No wiring at all, the accelerometer is on the howler board. By default it is mapped to the X, Y, Z rotation for Joystick 1 but it can be changed using the Howler Config program to trigger a joystick button press or keyboard button when any of the accelerometer axes go within a programmable range. If you watch my youtube video I show how it works by mapping the X axis to keyboard button "Z" and am able to add nudge capabilities to Epic Pinball using Dosbox!!!

[Vigo]

I did like the accelerometer, although I would think that there would be more advantage to allowing the accelerometer to be detached from the board, so you could integrate it into special made controls. Besides nudge, do you have some other ideas of uses?

[zanna5910]

Oh, and to get this thread back on topic, I'm curious about the accelerometer functionality. Do you need to wire something in for that?

yotsuyas gonna yotsuya

[rablack97]

I will be releasing the firmware and hardware source in the next week or so. I honestly have been SUPER busy programming, testing and shipping out all of the Howler boards (and dealing with a monster of a toddler and a full time job). I also want to clean up the code a bit so I am not flamed out by the programmers...

Also to clarify, Andy DO NOT use any IP from the Howler at all. Since the IP has yet to be released and he obviously has the skills to do all of this himself.

Enough with the flame war already, I was only upset because this device came out at the exact same time as the Howler with nearly the exact same specs without my knowledge but as Andy said, "Business is Business" and having multiple offerings out there is good for the community. Also, removing my original post from Andy's thread was what started it all but lets just let it go and continue on with the hobby.

If I wanted to make money from this I would not have made it open source (I actually had to take out a significant loan in order to build up an inventory of boards), I did it because whenever I show my friends my system they are in awe and we sit there for hours and play all the classic games from when we were kids and forget about all the bills we have to pay, kids we have to take care of, and wives we have to please...

Thanks,

Josh

 

See that's the attitude that will bring you more buyers.....take one on the jaw and fight through it, it's only round 1 man, give your prod a change to mature and grow in the market.

Got a big project coming up, soon as funding hits, i'm down for a 2 plyr setup 

[yotsuya]

Oh, and to get this thread back on topic, I'm curious about the accelerometer functionality. Do you need to wire something in for that?


yotsuyas gonna yotsuya

Uh, sure thing, bro. 

I'm curious along the same lines as Vigo. Do you see any other potential uses?

[SavannahLion]

Oh, and to get this thread back on topic, I'm curious about the accelerometer functionality. Do you need to wire something in for that?


yotsuyas gonna yotsuya

Uh, sure thing, bro. 

I'm curious along the same lines as Vigo. Do you see any other potential uses?

Of course, not knowing the granularity of the accelerometer,  it's hard to say. But...
Anything Wii related...
A substitute for sitdown controls eg Hang-On. Might allow for a much smaller and more flexible setup in that regards?
Replace the reloader mechanism in some shooters. I can't recall which one but there is one where reloading involves "snapping" the gun instead of shooting offscreen. That always struck me as lame especially if the contacts inside are worn.

[ark_ader]

The problem Andy is I champion your products to my friends and clients.  Excellent customer service and innovated products.  Hearing all of this is very disappointing and rather sad.

Thanks for the compliment but I really dont understand why this is "disappointing". As I have said, I see someone bringing out a product which replicates the functions and uses the same software (LEDBlinky) as our long-established products. I have not gone onto a forum and banged-on about this, I have reacted in a business-like way.

I am not going to beat a dead horse here and this will be my final comment on this subject.

Andy, you knew that this open sourced project was in the works.  You admitted looking at the available documents and brought a very similar product to market. That alone is unethical and quite naughty.  Yes you have both existing controllers, as well as several innovative products that this community embraces with gratitude.  I would also go so far to say (especially being on a BYOAC board of all places which promotes your products) that this community is not only a testbed for ideas, but a contributor to your company's success.  Innovation is the sticking point.  IDEAS make this hobby become reality.

You could of easily have waited a month before bringing your competing product to market.  That is being greedy.  That is why I am disappointed, and that is why I will not be buying your products or referring others from now on.  Randy will get my business.  It is down to ethics and good business methods, regardless what the other supposedly "manufacturers" say on the topic.  I am sure that I am not alone in this thinking.

Kudos to engg100 for his comments, even after the fact.

[keilmillerjr]

^^^^ that was my only complaint as well. Releasing a similar product at the same exact time seemed like it was a dig towards the howler, who has been posting it's information and timeline publicly.

[AndyWarne]

^^^^ that was my only complaint as well. Releasing a similar product at the same exact time seemed like it was a dig towards the howler, who has been posting it's information and timeline publicly.

The Howler timeline said it was being released in March. I always planned end April for my board. I had fully expected the Howler to be released at least a month before this.

[wirenut]

I for one do not think Andy should have to explain himself at all for his business practices.  The Howler is being sold by one of his main competitors (Paradise).  Allowing them to have an extra month to build market share is unacceptable in a business perspective.  Remember that whomever goes to Paradise to buy the Howler will most likely pick up buttons, sticks, ect... 

However, I do selfishly wonder if this kind of competition will discourage "backyard" innovation.  Andy always had the ability to combine the boards, but it took the Howler to get him to do it.

I just want to say that I have bought from both Paradise and Ultimarc and they are both really great.

[pbj]

^^^^ that was my only complaint as well. Releasing a similar product at the same exact time seemed like it was a dig towards the howler, who has been posting it's information and timeline publicly.

The Howler timeline said it was being released in March. I always planned end April for my board. I had fully expected the Howler to be released at least a month before this.

At 1am your time, you are still crapping on a thread about a competing product and still attempting to defend your actions.

When you find yourself in a hole - quit digging.

 

[ChanceKJ]

  Well if this thread is going off the rails again i might as well actively chime in...

...That alone is unethical and quite naughty....  ...You could of easily have waited a month before bringing your competing product to market.  That is being greedy....

I completely disagree. I'm truly sorry, but those are some of the dumbest comments i've seen all day month.  This is business.  Your mentality on this is weak.

When you commit to developing a product that you intend to not only sell, but potentially to make open source (especially with crowd funding) then you commit to a couple other things: 

1. That someone is going to copy your product.
2. They may crush you in sales/design/features/etc,etc,

If you can't commit to those facts, you don't go into business. That is a loss.

Unethical? No.  If Andy came here to Calgary, broke into Josh's place, smashed/destroyed all his Howler research and prototypes, then released his own board, that is "unethical". Urinating on the chard remains would be "naughty". If you have the means to come to market with a competitive product and take a solid chunk of said market you do it because thats just how it's done.  Waiting to release a product so potential sales can go to the other guys? Pffft no. This is business, not a preschool class trip to a petting zoo. And "Greedy" is for Wall Street cheats or CEO's that show up to a government bailout hearing in a private jet.

I have nothing against Josh. He knows the risks involved in releasing a product. He's wrist deep in it. If he can make his money back from any loan or out of pocket expenses, and at least break even then he's survived. If he takes it further and sees other products that need to exist, (be they similar or unique) then make money off them he's doing good.   

I've been a business owner that was open mouth curb stomped by a larger competitor.  I've had products of mine literally ripped from me in the middle of the design phase by a client, only for them to take it to a competitor that had no qualms trying to complete my work. I learned from that and it made me stronger in business.  This situation is not that. 

Like I said. This is business. None of it is personal.

Disagree with me all you want, thats your opinion. I encourage it.


/EndRant

[pbj]

Unethical? No.  If Andy came here to Calgary, broke into Josh's place, smashed/destroyed all his Howler research and prototypes, then released his own board, that is "unethical."

No, that's "illegal."  Is English your second language?

[ChanceKJ]

 

Only to "Bad English". 

[Dawgz Rule]

Unethical?  Naughty?  That is absurd.

I worked in publishing for a number of years and when we were aware that our competition was releasing a product, we would release a competitive product.  It was typical to match specs such that if the competitor was releasing a four color, hard cover text, we would do the same.  If possible, we would also try to release it prior to them.  Yes, we would research as much as we could (legally) to get the product to market.  That is not unethical or naughty.  If we copied the content of the book it would be an entirely different story.  An idea is not IP nor is making a competitive product, theft, copying, or a derivative product. 

It is the free market system.   The same goes on in Pharma where I currently work and I think you would be hard pressed to find any industry that doesn't do the same.  Cars???  Yes.  Console games???  Yes.

We would never think of calling the competitor and saying, "Hey, we were thinking about releasing a competitive product....Are you OK with that?"  That simply isn't how the free market works.

To suggest that Andy did anything that was even remotely wrong or unethical is about as stupid as it gets.   By all means, if you are "disappointed", you have the right to choose to discontinue doing business with Andy.  Again, that is how the free market works.  On the other hand, I will continue to do business with Andy based on my positive experiences.  He is a stand up guy and I am amazed at how much he is willing to do for his customers and the community as a whole.

[chopperthedog]

The richhead users always come out in force.


good day.

[rablack97]

Way i see it.

If your contributing to the community out of the love of the hobby.  Money nor morals matter as you wouldn't care who cloned copied anything.  In fact you embrace alternate attempts to duplicate your work to see it grow and appreciate the interest in your innocation.

If this wasn't about the love for the hobby and about competition and money.  Howler should of never been put on kickstarter.  You get private funding, you patent it, and you release it.  It's been said a few times here, kickstarter is the impatient way to get funding, and it exposes your innovations to the public.  You let microsoft kickstart a new console, do you think sony or apple won't counter it with a competing product?

If the the innovation is non-threatening to established businesses, some just write it off, as Randy stated, he has no interest in pursuing a competitive board due to the small market niche for such a product.  His bread and butter products will sustain his market share.

The idea to combine LED and Encoder functionality is sorta unique, but not a ground breaking idea, its not like Andy stole Colonel Sanders KFC recipe.  To Andy's point Josh had to of scoured his products for specs as well.

I know this is the bid dogs should of let the smaller dog have his moment, but when you come out advertising like josh did and raise close to 40,000 cash, build a website, t-shirts, and start a small company name.  Do you guys think this would raise a brow to the competition.

Had he started small, sold to the locals and kept it low key, then maybe this would of turned out different, I mean he also partnered with PA, so he was placing himself in the big dog market with the intent to make money, not just contribute for the love of the hobby.

Will this stifle innovation, doubtful, those for instance like the Onds, Knievels, Degenatrons, who show what they want people to enjoy and run with it.  I think this is just a lesson learned to be careful exposing your ideas if your intent is capital gain.

People release free stuff, plans, ideas on here all the time, all the forum asked is that you give a kind shout-out.  In this case, nobody asked permission for either side.  Josh didn't ask to use Randy and Andy's innovations for his project and Andy didnt ask Josh to duplicate his project.  So technically its a wash, Andy will probably lose cool points, but he does offer good products, and to say you refuse to buy a good product due to a minor foul is just plain stupid.

In summary this is all about leaving the little guy alone so he can make money, both are wrong here and no one more than the other.  Buy from who want based on the value of the product not by business practices.

I mean shoot, Bill gates borrowed windows ideas from Apple, but i'm sure every soul on here is still buying window right...no real difference here.

 End of

[yotsuya]

This from the man who has the best, cheapest hobbyist trackball/spinner encoder out there. Well said, Rodney! 

[Generic Eric]

This from the man who has the best, cheapest hobbyist trackball/spinner encoder out there. Well said, Rodney! 

rablack97 did?  I'll have to look for a link. 

[yotsuya]

This from the man who has the best, cheapest hobbyist trackball/spinner encoder out there. Well said, Rodney! 

rablack97 did?  I'll have to look for a link.

It was a nominee for the 2013 BYOACs.

[lilshawn]

There is no need for drama. Business is business. if you start getting all wrapped up about it, things will start going downhill because people are spiteful. (aww man this guy or that guy, get a load of them! screw this guy) Flattery is the sincerest form of copying...or something like that. people have options...and that is good...for all those involved. if we didn't have options, there would be a monopoly and nobody likes that. competition forces producers to make better products, provide better services, provide something different. if you like the something different, you choose them.  Monopoly causes (makes? chooses to?) companies to be lazy and provide only the bare minimum needed to sustain. "good enough"  is good enough. People who have to deal with monopolies know... (gas companies, power companies, part suppliers, the list goes on) they have no reason to keep you. you HAVE to come to them.

also:

[8BitMonk]

I'd rather have a vendor who plans ahead, thinks about the competition and evolves in real time than someone flying by the seat of their pants. A business owner who waits an extra month for their competitions release dates wouldn't be around long. I don't see anything Andy did as unethical, it was what any good business owner would have done. Good business decisions are what keeps him able to survive and support the community.

I Kickstarted the Howler board and just got mine yesterday, excited to use it! I've also bought a bunch of stuff from Andy over the years and will continue to do so.

[Generic Eric]

I Kickstarted the Howler board and just got mine yesterday

[pbj]

It is truly amazing how many titans of industry we have been blessed with at BYOAC

[Generic Eric]

It is truly amazing how many titans of industry we have been blessed with at BYOAC

Oscar Controls

[Crazy Cooter]

LOL.  People should think a little harder about who should be the one that's pissed off in this thread.

Here's the scenario you need to consider:
I'm mounting boards I bought from Andy and only find 7 of the 8 screws I need. Then the idea hits me... A single board.  So I advertise on the Internet I want to combine two existing boards and a market is shown to exist to make this economically feasible.  All of this is online and fully public including pricing, potential customer feedback, etc.  The entire business plan is on the net.  The company that makes the two original boards determines they can work within those margins and combines their own stuff.

I'm not knocking the work it took to bring the Howler to market, in fact, I might even buy one based on the price comparison alone BUT to tell Andy that he needed to call a competitor to tell them he was combining two of his own product designs is as ludicrous as telling him he needs to coordinate the launch of said device to allow market share to the other product.

[sarcasm] Of course I do realize this bridge has never been crossed before and that's why our options are: a sole source keyboard encoder vs mapping keyboard ghosting, a sole source game pad encoder vs hacking game pads, a sole source led controller, 1980 buttons and joys, rusty old spinners.... [/sarcasm]

Now can someone put a table together comparing these two products?  What exactly are the differences?  We're beyond page one without a list specs here guys.

--edit: added info below--
This is from me reading some stuff online so it may not be 100% accurate (and since the Howler is new it's documentation is still incomplete/hard to find) but here goes:

HOWLER: MSRP $99
Emulates- Keyboard?
Inputs- 48?
LED channels- 96
Colors- RGB
Brightness Levels- 255
Software- Open Source
Terminals- Screws
Interface- USB x.x?
key mapping- Programmable
4-player support- ?
Other- Accelerometer (This is a great idea)
Power Supply (wall wart?)
USB Cable
Disadvantages- ?

I-PAC ULTIMATE: MSRP $99
Emulates- Keyboard, Mouse, Game Controller and Power/Volume Control
Inputs- 48
LED channels- 96
Colors- RGB
Brightness Levels- 256
Software- Proprietary
Terminals- Pins
Interface- USB 2.0
key mapping- Programmable (MAME is default)
4-player support- with $19 expansion card
Other- Shift function for buttons
Power Cable included (from PC = 4-pin?)
USB Cable included
Microswitch harness (32 inputs included, add'l harness is needed for other 16)
Ground harness included (assumed to be 32)
Disadvantages- Trackball / Spinner not supported in 4-player configuration

I think the accelerometer is a big plus for the Howler.  More info on this please.

[NLS]

I woke up (if it gets approved) this fossil thread, for two reasons.

1) I am the guy that first notified Andy of the Hawler.

2) To update on how things are 3 years after this whole semi-civilized flame war. (I was a backer and have unit since back then)

---
So here is what I want to "contribute" to bring this up to date (plus my personal view).

1) Months after Hawler was out of Kickstarter and then sold (?) from Josh's own site, the whole thing seemed (and still looks) pretty much dead. The device got a couple of firmware and software updates (last update to bring shift functionality - this for Cooter's comparison above). I have emailed Josh more than once (a few months after this thread) and NEVER got a reply. Seems he abandoned the whole thing (including supporting existing units), which definitely takes a thumbs down from me. Maybe he sees this post and actually replies something.

2) AFAIK nothing ever got "open sourced" after all. Another thumbs down.

3) If this was indeed an open source project, then the whole "he stole my idea" thing was pointless. Josh got more than enough money for the original design in Kickstarter, plus some sales afterwards I presume. So if this was to be an open source project he is already covered. There is no "stealing" in open source.

4) Some (inc. Andy) pointed, but I will too, since some people don't realize it, that Andy HAD those things waaaaaaaaaaay before Hawler. Hawler was merely a "merge". Yes interesting and useful and yes it wasn't done before in THIS extend, but the functionality was there already. I would say Josh copied from Andy (and anything else out there). Which is also OK, since he didn't copy actual hardware design, just the idea.

5) When I first informed Andy, he told me he had something like that on the drawing board (not sure why he didn't mention this here), but wasn't sure there was a point to bring it to the market, but since Hawler seemed to raise interest, he would (what became i-PAC Ultimate). I don't see something wrong with that.

6) Ultimarc (@AndyWarne) and GGG (#RandyT) are still here. Wolfware, hardly (unless proven otherwirse - definitely never got real customer support a few months after release though and that doesn't change).

7) I am still not fully covered by what is out in the market. I would love an i-PAC Ultimate 2 with more analog and digital inputs. Some complex 2 player designs and many 4 player designs are not covered by a single board.

To sum up. Seems time has cleared things up. Seems Josh's project was a shooting star. Hope he is OK, but he definitely didn't really stand up to his product after all.

(can't see user profiles to verify more what I saying)

[lilshawn]

a pie in the sky dream of easy money... but once the chips hit the table, found out this was going to be more work than he'd planned on.

hopefully it was a lesson learned.

[HaRuMaN]

I had a howler and while it worked it was pretty great.  But after a month it stopped working.   

[n3wt0n]

I have a Howler and it does what it is supposed to do. I had some issues when I first set it up but Josh responded to emails fairly and quickly and helped me out. That being said I don't think that there is any more support for this product (unless Josh is around and says otherwise). It's unfortunate that things went down the way they did because I still like using my Howler. I don't regret my decision made back in the day because when I made my purchase it was the only option but without any type of support I couldn't bring myself to purchase another one. I actually don't even know if they are still available for sale - Paradise doesn't seem to have it on their website and the links to the shop on the official product page are dead.

I had a howler and while it worked it was pretty great.  But after a month it stopped working.   

Haruman, I am curious to know what happened to your Howler? Did it burn up or did it just stop working?