Some arcade legality questions

[Nullface]

So if multicades are illegal to profit from because they are unlicensed (bootlegs), then is it illegal to build your own cabinet but have it play legit JAMMA games inside for profit or do you need the original cabinet due to advertising policies or something? Say I made my own cabinet and put Street Fighter II inside of it and took quarters as credits, is this not legal? I am in the United States.

[yotsuya]

Good question. It might depend on your municipality's licensing and tax codes.

[mgb]

I wouldn't think it matters what cabinet they're in.
Lots of games were put in different cabinets and there are universal cabinets.
Of course depending on what state and county, there will be some type of licensing needed in order
To operate any arcade machine for money

[ark_ader]

So if multicades are illegal to profit from because they are unlicensed (bootlegs), then is it illegal to build your own cabinet but have it play legit JAMMA games inside for profit or do you need the original cabinet due to advertising policies or something? Say I made my own cabinet and put Street Fighter II inside of it and took quarters as credits, is this not legal? I am in the United States.

Well you could run bootlegs and be legal inside a cabinet.  Its the licensing for the coin part of the cabinet that will need researching.  Ask a local supplier.

[bradx]

a tangent:

what if someone put MAME in a galaga or ms pac cab, for instance, and got the proper coin op license, is there anything preventing that any more than there is the multicades out there everywhere?  its not like anyone is physically checking these machines to see what is inside them, right? 

couldnt someone set up a whole arcade with MAME instead of the original board in all the cabinets and get the licenses like a legit arcade? 

i was at an arcade some time ago, and i will not name names, but several of the games i couldnt help but wonder if i hit the power switch it would reboot to XP, hahaha...

[ark_ader]

a tangent:

what if someone put MAME in a galaga or ms pac cab, for instance, and got the proper coin op license, is there anything preventing that any more than there is the multicades out there everywhere?  its not like anyone is physically checking these machines to see what is inside them, right? 

couldnt someone set up a whole arcade with MAME instead of the original board in all the cabinets and get the licenses like a legit arcade? 

i was at an arcade some time ago, and i will not name names, but several of the games i couldnt help but wonder if i hit the power switch it would reboot to XP, hahaha...

There are a couple of places in my town where that is happening.  Actually its totally legalish if you own the roms.  The Mamedevs couldn't do anything about it, especially with their U-turn over commercial usage.  Besides are they going to get the entire coding collective together and sue?    It takes them all their time to get their ship in order and fix some old classic games.

If you do it, make sure you send us a nice picture. 

[Le Chuck]

I'm pretty sure if you're taking coins it doesn't matter what cabinet the board is in as long as it has a valid tax id/permit affixed to it as issued by the local municipality.   

[pbj]

Couple of friends of mine have done it without licenses.  One went and bought a prorated license in October and then just let it expire.  His machines were making about $10/month.  He got a letter almost immediately after his licenses expired and renewing them would have incurred a great deal of taxes (they were assuming he was making hundreds a month on them).

Other guy had a pinball in a pizza place that was full of legally tagged games from an operator that didn't want to mess with pinball.  Made about $30/month for several years and never heard a thing.

Nobody has ever given a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about the legality of what's inside the cabinet and that's been the situation since the beginning of this hobby.

 

[yotsuya]

Nobody has ever given a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about the legality of what's inside the cabinet and that's been the situation since the beginning of this hobby.

 

[mgb]

My guess is that a lot of this stuff isn't being checked much. Of course different areas may vary.
 I see a lot of 60-in-1s on location.

Back in the 80s there checks were being done for gambling devices and rf leaks and what not but its a much smaller industry now.

[pbj]

So me one person that's actually gone to jail for it besides David Foley.

 

[dgame]

What happens in South Florida is if you have other licenses (occupational, food service, etc.) then the inspectors come by at least once a year. When they are in there they look for any unlicensed things. So if you have a vending machine with a missing or expired tax stamp you can get fined, same goes for arcade and pinball machines. Never heard of anyone getting in trouble for what is inside the cab.

Nowadays that pizza parlor or barber shop with the Galaga cocktail sporting the 1986 tax stamp may never get fined but the 'authorities' still have the right to do so.

[Thenasty]

It becomes illegal when you get caught 

[JDFan]

It becomes illegal when you get caught 

+1 -- and in the long run if you do get caught you'll pretty much come out way behind as there isn't much profit in them nowadays as PBJ mentioned $10 - $30 per month. Just not worth the risk esp. once you deduct the overhead and repair\maintenance costs !!

[pbj]

Meh do it anyway.

[michelevit]

does a pizza shop / bar / other establishment need to pay fees if the game is on "Free Play"?

[pbj]

Nope.  Here you're supposed to remove the coin door if you do that though.

Nobody does.

 

[lilshawn]

everything these days is legal gray area. the consensus seems to be, don't stir the pot.

[SavannahLion]

everything these days is legal gray area. the consensus seems to be, don't stir the pot.

That's how it for a lot of things. Except you might not be the one to stir the pot. All it takes is one self righteous ---smurfette--- to make the call.

[BadMouth]

does a pizza shop / bar / other establishment need to pay fees if the game is on "Free Play"?

In the U.S. it varies by locality....sometimes state, more likely county or city.
The answer someone on an international message board gives you probably isn't going to apply to your locality.

[paigeoliver]

You can run an original board in any cabinet you want. The only possible worries are the fact that some of the stuff was only licensed for certain parts of the world. That, and if you have a prototype board as a lot of those essentially end up being stolen property if you trace their ownership back far enough.

Namco seems to be the last remaining company that made any effort to curb bootlegs of their old software and even they have stopped now, only seemingly worrying about the likeness of Pac-Man (etc) and not the software.

Finally, it doesn't matter what you put on location, it won't make any money.

[pbj]

Stop repeating that Namco myth.  Namco has never done ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to stop anyone.  It was one guy in Austin sending angry e-mails that got everything shut down on E-bay 10+ years ago. 

[ark_ader]

Stop repeating that Namco myth.  Namco has never done ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to stop anyone.  It was one guy in Austin sending angry e-mails that got everything shut down on E-bay 10+ years ago.

And don't forget Mr Foley did the same too.

[clok]

I think its all just back to purchasing. In the arcade days there was no thought put into anybody but Arcade owners having these. As far as I know they want you to pay for the BOARD. Nowdays they are used, on ebay etc.. but when it was new, you bought a KIT (conversion) or the machine, they wanted  you to buy it from a LEGIT source..  Once you did that.. it was yours to do with (not copy, not modify) as you will.. put it in any machine, charge whatever you wanted etc.. And as somebody brought up, if it was licensed for US, not another country.

Today.. if you are using a REAL board.. i don't think anybody cares.. In fact if you run a PC and have Pac-Man going and charge quarters.. as long as you own the board i don't think anybody cares.. (except MAME dev's?, i do not think they wanted mame used to make money? thats such a gray area right now, im not sure).

it was all done originally so you bought legit hardware from legit sources and used in licensed areas. Once Cab is as good as another.. There was NO EMULATION so there were no rules on it. To me with EMU, it should not change as long as you own a working copy of the original.

[pbj]

The problem with emulation is laws were broken in order to achieve that emulation.  Anyone that tells you otherwise is misinformed or lives in some weird country that nobody cares about.

 

[Unstupid]

Say I made my own cabinet and put Street Fighter II inside of it and took quarters as credits, is this not legal? I am in the United States.

It's funny you should use Street Fighter II as an example because the original Street Fighter II - World Warrior boards never had an original cabinet.

[Generic Eric]

IANAL
Case 1:
Bootleg board. 
Jurisdiction: Federal, international who knows
Case 2:
Operating any gaming machine.
Jurisdiction: State, perhaps city/county

For my state, there was no block on the operator license form to identify if the game was a pool table, video game, skeeball or pinball game let alone a block to identify what was running inside.

Of note:
In your area, you may be required to have a sales tax permit, operators license, location license, pay per machine. Annual renewal fees may apply.

My take away after looking for my state is that there is no way to identify on the form whether it is freeplay or not.^fact  If you don't give the man his cut, he is going to take you to the cleaners.  ^conjecture  The only way I see a business having these is as a loss to attract customer.  ^{informed opinion}

I don't know what the law was before arcades got big, but no wonder they aren't now. 

[amendonz]

---fudgesicle--- the police.

[Mr_Numbers]

So if multicades are illegal to profit from because they are unlicensed (bootlegs), then is it illegal to build your own cabinet but have it play legit JAMMA games inside for profit or do you need the original cabinet due to advertising policies or something? Say I made my own cabinet and put Street Fighter II inside of it and took quarters as credits, is this not legal? I am in the United States.

The MAME machine is 100% illegal no if and or buts about it (in the USA) irregardless of your usage.  If you have a legit PCB it would be legal to use (you didn't recreate the copyrighted game) although you need to check your local city, county, state and federal laws regarding the taxation (or permits) regarding using such devices for profit.  A good read about copyright laws regarding video games it the following link:

http://www.academia.edu/4415769/Copyright_Law_and_Video_Games_A_Brief_History_of_an_Interactive_Medium

[ark_ader]

So if multicades are illegal to profit from because they are unlicensed (bootlegs), then is it illegal to build your own cabinet but have it play legit JAMMA games inside for profit or do you need the original cabinet due to advertising policies or something? Say I made my own cabinet and put Street Fighter II inside of it and took quarters as credits, is this not legal? I am in the United States.

The MAME machine is 100% illegal no if and or buts about it (in the USA) regardless of your usage.  If you have a legit PCB it would be legal to use (you didn't recreate the copyrighted game) although you need to check your local city, county, state and federal laws regarding the taxation (or permits) regarding using such devices for profit.  A good read about copyright laws regarding video games it the following link:

http://www.academia.edu/4415769/Copyright_Law_and_Video_Games_A_Brief_History_of_an_Interactive_Medium

Nice paper, but it only addresses the software of the game and not the operating system or the hardware to "play the game".  The paper deals with bootlegs and clones of software where the 60 and X scenario is correctly suited.  Having the game roms of Space Invaders and playing it in a MAME or similar emulator would not be illegal as the game was not copyrighted, or that the hardware was unable to source to play the software on. 

Most EULAs pertain to using software for commercial purposes, but if this type of EULA was non existent for a version of Donkey Kong for the Sega Genesis system, one could argue a licensing exception in civil court.  Emulators are not illegal for commercial use (Sony vs Connectix 2000) which would constitute fair use. 

Nice Try.   

[pbj]

Most pointless debate ever.  NOBODY CARES.  The companies do NOTHING to stop it.

 

[Hoopz]

irregardless 

Not a word.

[JDFan]

irregardless 

Not a word.

Actually it is often accepted as a word and is listed in many dictionaries ! 

According to the WIKI :

In the last twenty-five years, irregardless has become a common entry in dictionaries and usage reference books, although commonly marked as substandard or dialect. It appears in a wide range of dictionaries including Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged (1961, repr. 2002),[4] The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology (1988), The American Heritage Dictionary (Second College Edition, 1991),[5] Microsoft Encarta College Dictionary (2001), and Webster's New World College Dictionary (Fourth Edition, 2004).[6] The definition in most dictionaries is simply listed as regardless (along with the note nonstandard, or similar). Merriam–Webster even states "Use regardless instead."

[DaveMMR]

Actually it is often accepted as a word and is listed in many dictionaries ! 

The same dictionaries that added the likes of "D'oh" and "twerk" and "selfie" to their pages?

Dictionaries are only a mirror of our language, however proper or improper. Exercise discretion using those words in formal conversation (e.g. job interviews, etc.). 

[Malenko]

[Mr_Numbers]

[/quote]

Sony vs Connectix 2000) which would constitute fair use. 

Nice Try.   
[/quote]

Thanks for this bit of info, I retract my previous statement.  I wasn't aware of this precedent and after reading more about it I will agree emulation seems legal. 

[pbj]

I wasn't aware of this precedent and after reading more about it I will agree emulation seems legal.

Yeah, not really.  What that product did was very narrow and it didn't contain anything infringing. 

Nothing to do with downloading copyrighted material and cracking encryption on the fly.

 

[Mr_Numbers]

Yeah, not really.  What that product did was very narrow and it didn't contain anything infringing. 

Nothing to do with downloading copyrighted material and cracking encryption on the fly.

 

Can you point to case law precedence because I'm not tech savvy enough to understand your difference?

[Malenko]

Can you point to case law precedence because I'm not tech savvy enough to understand your difference?

Connectix didn't use a sony bios to achieve their goals, as in you could use their product without needing a sony bios image. They didnt bypass any protections ( you needed the legit playstation game if memory serves), etc.

In the long run Sony won that battle, when they lost the court case Connectix sold them the software and they discontinued it.

[ark_ader]

irregardless 

Not a word.

Actually it is often accepted as a word and is listed in many dictionaries ! 

According to the WIKI :

In the last twenty-five years, irregardless has become a common entry in dictionaries and usage reference books, although commonly marked as substandard or dialect. It appears in a wide range of dictionaries including Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged (1961, repr. 2002),[4] The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology (1988), The American Heritage Dictionary (Second College Edition, 1991),[5] Microsoft Encarta College Dictionary (2001), and Webster's New World College Dictionary (Fourth Edition, 2004).[6] The definition in most dictionaries is simply listed as regardless (along with the note nonstandard, or similar). Merriam–Webster even states "Use regardless instead."

I fix peoples' misspellings in my quotes for a laugh.   Where is our resident spell checker?