Arcade Collecting > Pinball
Visual Pinball.....whoa.
Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---1) what are your thoughts about Gran Toursmo the driving simulator, with a real car on a real track? Is your enjoyment level limited to 1/10 because your not experiencing the real thing.
--- End quote ---
Never played it until about 1month ago. I pretty much only bought the PS1 for Ridge Racer, and there were very few games worth playing on either PS1 or PS2, IMO.
I tried several laps with different cars, on different tracks... and it was Lifeless, boring, and very Slow. It may be realistic from the standpoint of the simulation.... but without actual high level force feedback, its like watching a movie without sound + no subtitles.
You cant feel the wheels slip, the g-forces, or anything that will clue you in on how to react. Its not in Stereoscopic 3D, so you also have Zero depth perception to boot... making even the visual responses crippled.
You also lose all of the fun, because you cant Feel like your going fast. You dont get glued to the seat when you hit the throttle.. nor feel that scary rush when the car loses grip.
At least with an Arcade style racing game, like Ridge Racer, Out Run, even Turbo.. All of them have an exaggerated level of speed, which Does actually make you feel like you are going fast, does give you a rush from constant near misses... And though the way they drive is not realistic... its still challenging and fun. Unlike Grand Snorefest... and all the other ultra-realisitic sims.
A game like Race Drivin (sitdown), has pretty bad graphics.. and even with its high level of realism in its simulation... it would Never have done well without its specialized controllers. A dryer motor force feedback wheel, for extreme output. The wheel can do about 6 full rotations... so its level of precision, control, and realism... probably are unmatched to this day. The brake wasnt a mere spring pedal.. it used a compression system... to give the feel of a real brake. The shifter wasnt a generic piece of trash. It had that perfect snapping lock of the gears.. and it was easy to find the correct gear. I believe it even had a electromagnet that could keep the gear locked until you pressed the clutch... however, I do not think many Operators activated it. And or it may have broke, and never was repaired.
So, when driving in Race Drivin, you can actually feel the wheel tug tight and suddenly slip loose... which gives you a precise feel of the cars grip on the road, as well as much more. Its what made that game such a huge success.
But as much as I love Race Drivin.. If it cost the same to own as a Lamborghini... why would I get the Sim?
--- Quote ---2) why not avoid "worrying about representing the experience of the original game" and only play tables that are entirly fictional? Like fx2; their games have never existed in the physical world, the "original game" is a video game.
--- End quote ---
Ive played plenty of non fictional pinball games. But the point is still the same. It has no feeling. No physical interaction. Incorrect acoustics. Its flat, and perspective is Locked. Often shaded and modeled very poorly. And overall, isnt really fun.
No virtual Pinball, can ever Feel or play like a real machine.
Just as no Skeeball machine, will ever be replaced by a virtual Skeeball machine. People would rather make a real machine, than to mount two monster LCDs in the shape of one, with a Wii controller to use as a sensor...
Luckydogg_420@hotmail.com:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on January 17, 2014, 03:46:07 am ---
but without actual high level force feedback, its like watching a movie without sound + no subtitles.
You cant feel the wheels slip, the g-forces, or anything that will clue you in on how to react. Its not in Stereoscopic 3D, so you also have Zero depth perception to boot... making even the visual responses crippled.
You also lose all of the fun, because you cant Feel like your going fast. You dont get glued to the seat when you hit the throttle.. nor feel that scary rush when the car loses grip.
--- End quote ---
I'm not talking about holding a controller in your hand.... With a 3d tv and a good force feedback steering wheel it's a different story. I use a Logitech g27 wheel. It has dual force feedback. You can feel understeer, oversteer and every bump in the road. The steering is true 1:1 (2 1/2 rotations from left lock to right lock. Just like your car). You can feel wheel spin. The 3d is pretty spot on, although you don't get pushed back into your seat with my setup. With enough money that's possible too. (less then the cost of a fiat)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h-SR199Kog4&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dh-SR199Kog4
As a side note. There was a gran turismo competition where the winner became a real race driver.
http://www.dailytech.com/Champion+Gran+Turismo+Gamer+Becomes+Realworld+Racing+Champion/article17035.htm
So the game can't be that bad. Maybe the problem is just your expectations.
Xiaou2:
Given the correct feedback, you are accurately representing the experience.
In driving games, thats actually not that difficult, because the main feedback is to do with the wheel. The visuals of computer graphics can be very photo-realistic... and Stereoscopic 3d output is also possible... as is head tracking perspectives.
In Pinball, its a completely different story. You not only do not see the games correctly.. horribly & inaccurately drawn by non-artists... and at a locked perspective angle.. and usually at the incorrect lighting levels...
But that even with the sensors, the table reactions just do not replicate the actions and experiences found when playing on a real machine.
The GT experience may give you a 80% replication of the real experience (with the ffb wheel)... But a Virtual pin loaded with every gadget, still does not give you even 30% of the experience.
And btw, someone playing GT becoming a race driver doesnt mean anything. That like saying someone who played Guitar Hero, became a rock star. heh It also does not mean its a fun / great game. Personally, Id rather play Ridge Racer, Pole Position, TX-1, Super Hangon, Turbo, Supersprint, Spy Hunter, Race Drivin, Burnout, Daytona USA, SF.Rush, ... among many others. Reality can be a bit boring.. thats why we have fantasy... where anything is possible.
Malenko:
Visual pinball and the like are an approximation. Not designed to be a replacement for the real thing, but let you have an experience based on the real thing. While owning Tales of the Arabian Nights would be fantastic (and expensive) being able to pull my cell phone out and play a simulated version by FarSight is both pretty awesome and not possible with a real table.
As for the GT guy becoming a driver, I could see where it could help. Real drivers use simulation rigs to prep for courses, but the rigs they use are little more pricey than a playstation.
Tony Stewart , Dale Earnhardt Jr, Jeff Gordon and others use them all the time.
Just because you prefer the arcadey feel of loose physics doesnt mean you can disregard other people finding the same joy in more strict physics. I love Cruis'n the World, double tapping my gas to pop a wheelie and the whole nine, but I also enjoy the challenge of trail breaking into a reduced radius turn while keeping enough speed to cut the apex of turn 3 at Lime Rock.
I feel that if you put the time and money into your virtualpin cab you could have quite the authentic experience.
both by Chris77
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,98252.msg1037708.html
http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?13146-Big-Bang-Pin-46-30-15-6-LED-Widebody-%28custom-artwork-bezel-less-deep-playfield%29
After I finish the Galaga restore and fix up my KI cab, my next project is prolly gonna be a Vpin.
ChadTower:
--- Quote from: pbj on January 14, 2014, 09:25:50 am ---Posts like yours are why I encourage people to buy the first one they see if they're interested in a particular title.
The trade volume has dropped off a cliff and you're very likely to NEVER see one again. It wasn't like that 15 years ago, but it is now. :P
--- End quote ---
Trade volume... that's an accurate way to put it. And it's right.
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