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Author Topic: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.  (Read 3764 times)

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Nick420

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Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« on: December 19, 2013, 11:44:05 am »
Hi, I have managed to get groovy mame up and running and its truly awesome(thanks a bunch for creating something so awesome), however many games just give a garbled image and the sound runs way too fast.

my setup is winxp 64 clean install >crt emu driver 1.2, 9.6 > groovymame 151 > 151 rom set > radeon hd2600 pro > nanao ms8

examples of games that wont run,
anything neo geo ive tried, pacman, snow bros, bubble bobble, parodius, gradius 3, R-type leo
games that will work,
street fighter alpha 3, mortal kombat 1,2,3, progear, r-type 1/2

I've tried lots to fix this but to no avail, hence this post :-(

I've got 120 modelines in vm-maker(magic resolutions disabled)(got way less modelines with magic resolutions and the problem was still there) I havn't done anything with arcade OSD except set the desktop resolution because I wasn't really sure what i was doing. I just have the vmmaker config set to CGA. (i tried using custom and the specs 0 line from a post I read regarding an ms9.  I put the same line into modeline in groovymame.ini but switchres reported that i was missing a parameter. so i changed it back to auto. Games where not centred with that set up.

Also another problem I'm having is that my viewable screen area doesn't meet the bezzle on my new astro city. i.e. I have a thin black border that cannot be removed using hardware screen adjustments.

I'm at work now or i would post my mame and vm-maker configs.

Tried to give as much info as possible

Regards
Nick :-)



Calamity

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2013, 01:06:06 pm »
Hi Nick,

Fist, try to fix the resolutions that don't work. This is probably due to low dotclock issues with your HD 2xxx card, try the following:

- Use VMMaker to create magic resolutions
- Set 'dotclock_min 8.0' in mame.ini

If this fixes snowbros, bubble, etc., then you can go on fine tuning the geometry.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Nick420

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2013, 04:09:09 pm »
Hi calamity, thanks for the reply :-)

So I set the custom and XML table lines to 1,2 and put the min dot clock to 8.0

30 modelines generated.

Yup that fixed snow bros and bubble bobble and all neo geo stuff. Hooray!!! The only games that didnt work that I tried were pac man, galaga and gradius 4. I notice that switch res doesnt match as perfectly anymore, but the games look ace! so I'm guessing that's normal?

Would I be better off to buy the 4xxx card that you based this around?

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2013, 04:37:36 am »
If you mean that the resolution shown by SwitchRes doesn't match the original, well that's expected because we're scaling on the horizontal to avoid low dotclocks, however the result must be pixel perfect (integer scaling, no artifacts). Keep your HD 2600.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Nick420

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2013, 07:01:15 pm »
Yeah that's what I figured. Yeah it looks amazing! The scan lines are much more visible now than any other mame I've used and I tried an Avga set up(got one of the new avga5000 cards but andy didn't know if it would be compatible with groovy mame) but was keen to get the auto switching and reduced lag, so broke out my old hd2600 pro and got stuck in.
Then got stuck lol.
The dinosaurs in bubble bobble are especially memorable, just beautiful. All my favourite games are working now so it's no biggie if I can't run all games.

Do you know what the correct modeline values are for an ms8 monitor? Is that what I need to configure to remove the black border?

Sorry if these are really noobish questions but I'm having a hard time getting my head around all of the resolutions/frequency/modelines stuff   ???  ???

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2013, 09:26:31 pm »
Yeah that's what I figured. Yeah it looks amazing! The scan lines are much more visible now than any other mame I've used and I tried an Avga set up(got one of the new avga5000 cards but andy didn't know if it would be compatible with groovy mame) but was keen to get the auto switching and reduced lag, so broke out my old hd2600 pro and got stuck in.
Then got stuck lol.
The dinosaurs in bubble bobble are especially memorable, just beautiful. All my favourite games are working now so it's no biggie if I can't run all games.

Do you know what the correct modeline values are for an ms8 monitor? Is that what I need to configure to remove the black border?

Sorry if these are really noobish questions but I'm having a hard time getting my head around all of the resolutions/frequency/modelines stuff   ???  ???

I just use the first only modeline for a NANAO MS9-29 with my MS8. Works fine.

Nick420

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2013, 05:39:33 am »
Hmmm..I tried that, I put that line in the vmmaker config and the same line into groovymame.ini where it said modeline.
Switchres said I was missing a parameter. The games where shifted to the right by about an inch and a half or so.

Put modeline back to auto in groovyvmame.ini no error message but games still pushed to the right. I think I still had a black border around the desktop screen like that as well, although it was less noticeable I didn't spend long looking at it really so maybe it was gone.

Blontic would you mind posting ur groovymame and vmmaker inis please?

Also could someone please clarify to me what arcadeOSD actually can do and how to do it (lay man terms lol)

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2013, 07:13:16 am »
As I've said a hundred times, modelines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFree86_Modeline) are something different from crt_range or the old monitor_specs lines, which we use in GroovyMAME to modelize monitors (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116023.0.html). But people just call modeline to any row of numbers they see. That's the primary source of confussion.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2013, 10:34:28 am »
I'm sure you don't like repeating yourself. I read through the first 10 pages or so in this forum and was still confused. Just trying to get everything set up correctly on my new cab so I can actually get around to playing on it rather than configuring it hehe. Sorry. Guess il just keep researching then. Noobs like me badly need a guide with all the info in one place I reckon, to prevent irritating posts like Mine lol.

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2013, 11:12:41 am »
Hi Nick420, I didn't consider your post irritating. Most people here are mixing modelines with crt_range lines not only in this thread but in many you may stumble upon, so it was a general comment. Your explanation on how you tried to use crt_range values into the modeline option etc was just a confirmation that you may have been misled by this.

You only need to edit mame.ini, with these values (from the ms929 preset):

Quote
monitor custom
crt_range0  15450-16050, 50-65, 3.910, 4.700, 6.850, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

only mame.ini means: leave vmmaker alone :)

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Nick420

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2013, 05:35:53 pm »
Ok I think I understand a little better what's going on now, the reason I was trying to put the range numbers into vmmaker was because my desktop won't fill my viewable screen area so I knew nothing in groovy mame ini was gonna fix that.

Should I use the ms9 preset for vm maker and then only have the 15khz range line in groovy mame ini? Therefore filling the viewable area but never switching to 24khz (hope I've got that right) because at the moment I'm just using CGA in vmmaker.

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2013, 06:02:50 pm »
Ok I think I understand a little better what's going on now, the reason I was trying to put the range numbers into vmmaker was because my desktop won't fill my viewable screen area so I knew nothing in groovy mame ini was gonna fix that.

Should I use the ms9 preset for vm maker and then only have the 15khz range line in groovy mame ini? Therefore filling the viewable area but never switching to 24khz (hope I've got that right) because at the moment I'm just using CGA in vmmaker.

Yes, but be aware that VMMaker uses a different format (monitor_specs vs crt_range), as explained here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116023.0.html

Also, notice this will only affect horizontal size and centering, not the vertical size.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2013, 06:13:05 pm »
Ah I see put the right ones in the right place cool. So should I add both lines for the ms9 in vmmaker and just one in groovy mame?

Or just the first line for both?

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2013, 06:18:31 pm »
Just the first line for both.

If your only concern is the desktop resolution you can just edit the geometry of this one using ArcadeOSD. However, make sure to set a different resolution for the desktop before doing this, as ArcadeOSD can't modify the resolution currently used by the desktop.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2013, 05:16:57 am »
Hi calamity, ok I entered those presets and I am now at full screen :) hooray!!! So yeah where I was going wrong was using a modeline value for a range line value...Doh!

However I am experiencing some artifacting, and the games are not centred on the horizontal as closely anymore. I seen a post of yours where you explain about super wide resolutions. Should I try those for better results? It's looking really great now tho. Nearly there...thanks for all your help so far. :)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 08:54:01 am by Nick420 »

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2013, 03:03:28 pm »
However I am experiencing some artifacting, and the games are not centred on the horizontal as closely anymore. I seen a post of yours where you explain about super wide resolutions. Should I try those for better results? It's looking really great now tho. Nearly there...thanks for all your help so far. :)

Is centering so bad you can't correct it with your monitor controls?

Super wide resolutions involves creating an special mode list with VMMaker, you have some info here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135916.msg1405542.html#msg1405542

Not too difficult, but I'd try to get it working the normal way.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2013, 04:50:30 pm »
No it can be fixed with the monitor pots but unfortunately I have to remove the front of my cab to access them, so not really practical. I was planning on drilling a hole in my bezzle and attaching a long pot knob to the vsize pot so as it comes out of the bezzle and still looks neat at the same time.

As regards to the artifacting I'm not sure is such a problem. It only happens the odd time in some games. At the top of the screen in metal slug 2 for example.

One question, if I used a graphics card without the low dotclock problem would I be able to go without magic resolutions and have 120 modelines again thus eliminating all problems?

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2013, 05:14:53 pm »
No it can be fixed with the monitor pots but unfortunately I have to remove the front of my cab to access them, so not really practical. I was planning on drilling a hole in my bezzle and attaching a long pot knob to the vsize pot so as it comes out of the bezzle and still looks neat at the same time.

I meant horizontal centering not vertical size. I mean a general adjustment that more or less fits all horizontal games, not something you need to be adjusting between games. V-size is a different story and you really need to manually adjust it between games, that's the expected behaviour.

Quote
As regards to the artifacting I'm not sure is such a problem. It only happens the odd time in some games. At the top of the screen in metal slug 2 for example.

I don't understand what you mean by artifacting here.  A picture would help.

Quote
One question, if I used a graphics card without the low dotclock problem would I be able to go without magic resolutions and have 120 modelines again thus eliminating all problems?

I'm not sure what the problems are exactly (bad horizontal centering?) Using magic resolutions is actually better in terms of amount of resolutions, i.e. you have them all. So that shouldn't be the problem. I recommended magic resolutions as a complement to dotclock_min 8.0 because the later needs to duplicate the original widths, so you'd need to use vmmaker to duplicate all the modes to begin with, and just enabling magic resolutions in GM makes this process transparent to you.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Nick420

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2013, 06:08:34 pm »
Yeah I knew you meant horizontal positioning. More niggles than problems really but what I meant was, yes horizontal positioning off a bit. The way it is, is that the majority of games are fine on the horizontal, but then a select few are pushed to the right. I could leave it somewhere between the two but it seems the better choice to have it perfect for most.

Not being able to run some games like galaga and pacman and some others haven't tried that many so don't really know how extensive that is.

And graphical glitches in some games, I don't know if artifacting is the right phrase to use in regards to what's happening. It's like when there's an explosion in Front of a large sprite then a chunk of the sprite disappears with straight edges (like a perfect square was cut away from the sprite in question. That and lines of pixels that are just out of place to the rest of the picture. Il try and get a pic if I can catch it.

Maybe my expectations are too high and I'm just being way too picky, it's already cool as ---fudgesicle--- but if I can make it better I'm all up for that :)

Ok cool I didn't realist that magic resolutions was the preferred setup. I read that it was only intended as a fix for hyper spin so I think that's what threw me there lol.

Edit:ok ignore what I said about galaga and pacman. I just tried them and they work fine all games seem to be working now. Weird I haven't changed a thing since they didnt work before. Not complaining tho happy days :)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 06:24:04 pm by Nick420 »

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2013, 06:23:16 pm »
Yeah I knew you meant horizontal positioning. More niggles than problems really but what I meant was, yes horizontal positioning off a bit. The way it is, is that the majority of games are fine on the horizontal, but then a select few are pushed to the right. I could leave it somewhere between the two but it seems the better choice to have it perfect for most.

You should be able to get a good compromise by modifying a bit the H back porch value in your crt_range0 (only mame.ini).

Quote
Not being able to run some games like galaga and pacman and some others haven't tried that many so don't really know how extensive that is.

I assume you can actually run the games but they don't show properly on the screen, right? You probably need to tweak the H-freq potentiometer on your monitor a little bit.

Quote
And graphical glitches in some games, I don't know if artifacting is the right phrase to use in regards to what's happening. It's like when there's an explosion in Front of a large sprite then a chunk of the sprite disappears with straight edges (like a perfect square was cut away from the sprite in question. That and lines of pixels that are just out of place to the rest of the picture. Il try and get a pic if I can catch it.

I promise I have never seen something like that!

Quote
Ok cool I didn't realist that magic resolutions was the preferred setup. I read that it was only intended as a fix for hyper spin so I think that's what threw me there lol.

Well that was the story indeed but I ended up using them all the time and I don't use HS. However some people have issues with magic resolutions (not related to what you're seeing!). It's a shame they won't be supported in W7 (that's where super resolutions will come to help us).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Nick420

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2013, 06:38:56 pm »
Ok cool after reading your post there IS something I changed since the games were not displaying correctly...The  monitor adjustments, so that must have been what was wrong.

Lol it's probably just my pc crapping out then. It's looking like I'm gonna have to buy a faster processor anyways (which means new mb and new ram :-/) cuz I'm getting quite a lot of noticeable slowdown in stuff like metal slug 2, pulstar and a few other games I really enjoy. lol this cab is a money pit!!!

Well it looks like I'm pretty much there then with the setup of groovy mame. PHEW! It's been a journey lol. Thanks a tonne for walking me through my troubles, if there's a donate button about I'm more than willing to support this amazing project. keep up the good work!!!!

Peace
Nick :)

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2013, 03:37:37 am »
Those games have slowdown on original hardware.

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Re: Help Please, Cant get many games to run.
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2013, 05:44:05 am »
Oh! Cool. Yeah because after I posted that I went and played some metal slug 3. Which ran a lot smoother than ms2. Maybe I'm not too bad as is then...