Newbie 4 Player Control Panel Thoughts

[BadMouth]

Meh, keep the trackball centered.  The only games where your hand is flying past it (golf and bowling), you're not going at it sideways.
You've already got more clearance than an x-arcade tankstick.  I have one of those and have never had anyone hit the joysticks.
That design does keep the trackball more in-line with the joysticks, where you have it farther forward.
Personally, I think you're right to want more clearance in front of it than to the sides.

[yotsuya]

Meh, keep the trackball centered.  The only games where your hand is flying past it (golf and bowling), you're not going at it sideways.
You've already got more clearance than an x-arcade tankstick.  I have one of those and have never had anyone hit the joysticks.
That design does keep the trackball more in-line with the joysticks, where you have it farther forward.
Personally, I think you're right to want more clearance in front of it than to the sides.

+1. Also, are you still keeping 6 buttons on P3/P4?

[Bobgilb1]

Meh, keep the trackball centered.  The only games where your hand is flying past it (golf and bowling), you're not going at it sideways.
You've already got more clearance than an x-arcade tankstick.  I have one of those and have never had anyone hit the joysticks.
That design does keep the trackball more in-line with the joysticks, where you have it farther forward.
Personally, I think you're right to want more clearance in front of it than to the sides.

+1. Also, are you still keeping 6 buttons on P3/P4?

Probably not (just didn't have time to Photoshop it yet). If people that have been at it this long think there is no reason for it I am smart enough to listen

[Bobgilb1]

Meh, keep the trackball centered.  The only games where your hand is flying past it (golf and bowling), you're not going at it sideways.
You've already got more clearance than an x-arcade tankstick.  I have one of those and have never had anyone hit the joysticks.
That design does keep the trackball more in-line with the joysticks, where you have it farther forward.
Personally, I think you're right to want more clearance in front of it than to the sides.

I will lay it all out on a practice panel and see how it all looks and feels.

Not sure what I will end up doing until I can feel it but I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas

[yotsuya]

I want to commend you, Bobglib1. 

Obviously, it's your cab and you can do what you want. But a lot of us speak from experience, have physically done the research, have tried and failed, and just enjoy seeing seeing well-made projects. We're not crotchety arcade old-timers stuck in the 80s who insist that things need to be done a certain way, as some who come here and fling this accusation towards us when we point out mistakes (in our honest, well-tested opinions) they've made. I'm glad you're seeing our constructive criticism and advice for exactly what it is.

If we can be of any help, just ask. Ultimately, it's your cab- we want to help you raise the bar with it! 

[Bobgilb1]

I want to commend you, Bobglib1. 

Obviously, it's your cab and you can do what you want. But a lot of us speak from experience, have physically done the research, have tried and failed, and just enjoy seeing seeing well-made projects. We're not crotchety arcade old-timers stuck in the 80s who insist that things need to be done a certain way, as some who come here and fling this accusation towards us when we point out mistakes (in our honest, well-tested opinions) they've made. I'm glad you're seeing our constructive criticism and advice for exactly what it is.

If we can be of any help, just ask. Ultimately, it's your cab- we want to help you raise the bar with it! 

Thanks! This is definitely my kind of place!

I genuinely appreciate the experience and advice and it is why I am posting here. I have soooooooooo many questions that I haven't even STARTED researching yet, so these direct answers to my questions are absolutely invaluable! I don't care if I agree or disagree with any idea expressed I just love hearing the ideas!

Once it comes time to build the panel I would like to make my decisions based on my opinions of what I know and not just because I don't know any better. If I do something that someone else does not like in my cabinet I won't mind at all, no problem BUT if I do something in a way that makes it not as functional or fun out of ignorance I will be a bit frustrated.

ALTHOUGH I have already decided to be happy with whatever I do because I KNOW there will be a million ways it can be better about 5 minutes after I am done, lol

 

[Slippyblade]

ALTHOUGH I have already decided to be happy with whatever I do because I KNOW there will be a million ways it can be better about 5 minutes after I am done, lol

And that is why this is a hobby and not just a singular project.  No matter how awesome your first build it, there are "tweaks" that you will want to do.  Eventually you will want to build another cab.  Maybe a cocktail for the corner.  Now you need a jukebox.  Shortly afterwards you realize that MAME was nothing but a gateway drug and you want the real thing and start trawling Craigslist for a real cab with authentic boards.  Before you know it, you are up to your armpits in monitor technical manuals, solder braid, and T-Molding.

Then you slowly turn your head and see your wife leaning against the door jam of the garage, shaking her head and quietly laughing.  Not with you, but AT you.

Welcome to the fold, the kool-aid is in the corner.

Mua-ha-ha-ha!!!   

[Bobgilb1]

ALTHOUGH I have already decided to be happy with whatever I do because I KNOW there will be a million ways it can be better about 5 minutes after I am done, lol

And that is why this is a hobby and not just a singular project.  No matter how awesome your first build it, there are "tweaks" that you will want to do.  Eventually you will want to build another cab.  Maybe a cocktail for the corner.  Now you need a jukebox.  Shortly afterwards you realize that MAME was nothing but a gateway drug and you want the real thing and start trawling Craigslist for a real cab with authentic boards.  Before you know it, you are up to your armpits in monitor technical manuals, solder braid, and T-Molding.

Then you slowly turn your head and see your wife leaning against the door jam of the garage, shaking her head and quietly laughing.  Not with you, but AT you.

Welcome to the fold, the kool-aid is in the corner.

Mua-ha-ha-ha!!!   

My wife is already shaking her head and laughing at me, so I am almost there 

[yotsuya]

My wife is already shaking her head and laughing at me, so I am almost there 

My wife gave up. I went from a single MAME cabinet build in the Summer of 2010 to an 11 game family room arcade that gets its debut on Saturday! 

[Bobgilb1]

My wife is already shaking her head and laughing at me, so I am almost there 

My wife gave up. I went from a single MAME cabinet build in the Summer of 2010 to an 11 game family room arcade that gets its debut on Saturday! 

I can already tell you that the Jukebox idea definitely made my ears perk up

[yotsuya]

My jukebox is my favorite thing in my gameroom. It's on every day.

[MashRinx]

Hello everyone, this is Bobgilb1's brother. 

He recently drug me (quite willingly, I admit) into this newest project of his, and I just want to ditto the appreciation of the feedback and willingness to share your experiences.  Although I am sure we will make many mistakes along the way, I am also sure we will avoid many more by heeding the advice given here.  We will be working on our cabinets separately sometimes (we lives several hours apart) we will also be working together when upcoming holiday travel allows too.  This is a project that I think we both have considered at times in the past and I think seeing one in person recently has finally driven him over the edge!

This being said, I think the last "hey do you want to do this with me?" I agreed to ended up involving ice fishing in northern Wisconsin, so hopefully this project won't involve -40 deg temperatures...

Thanks again!

[yotsuya]

Welcome aboard, you two! 

[kaneda]

I am aware that player’s 3 and 4 probably don’t need 6 buttons but I am a bit OCD and like them all to match 

Kaneda? Is that you?

Just chiming in late, to confirm, no it's not me

[Bobgilb1]

You ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up getting those magsticks. P3 and p4 will never need 4way sticks, and they suck...

Is this the opinion of the group in general? Should I have gone with a different type of joystick than the "Mag-Stick Plus"?

[kaneda]

You ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up getting those magsticks. P3 and p4 will never need 4way sticks, and they suck...

Is this the opinion of the group in general? Should I have gone with a different type of joystick than the "Mag-Stick Plus"?

What types of games will you be playing the most?   Lots of people go more dedicated 8-way sticks for players 1-4 and then a 4-way stick for the older games.  But I have no clue which sticks are the best.  I went with Happ Competition sticks since I play a lot of fighting games.  Some people love that stick, some hate it...but it's what most SF players prefer.

[Nephasth]

You ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up getting those magsticks. P3 and p4 will never need 4way sticks, and they suck...

Is this the opinion of the group in general? Should I have gone with a different type of joystick than the "Mag-Stick Plus"?

Either U360s or easily switchable JLWs like the Servostick or GGG's manual equivalent (omnisomething). That's me though.

[BadMouth]

I've tried a fairly wide variety of sticks, but never the Mag Sticks?
What's the deal with them?  Magnetic centering too weak or feel weird?

[zanna5910]

Either U360s or easily switchable JLWs like the Servostick or GGG's manual equivalent (omnisomething). That's me though.

@bobglib - you are a rare breed to take constructive criticism so well, you are most welcomed.  Remember, all in all, its yours and yours alone.  Do what you want and whatever makes you happy. 
@neph - +1 - I have servostiks and it is SOOOO nice to have this part automated as it ended up being frustrating to have to manually switch from 4 to 8 so much that I just gave up and would skip over any game that wasn't 4 way when I was set to 4 way.  This is a subtle feature that I think is a must now; especially with casual players playing, trying to explain to them how to change the stick is annoying or having to baby monitor them to do it for them so they dont rip out your wiring...
@yotsuya - got any pics of that gameroom now?  Would love to see it.

[yotsuya]

@yotsuya - got any pics of that gameroom now?  Would love to see it.

I plan to shoot some now and during the party. I'll make a thread and post it soon.

[Bobgilb1]

Honestly, when I was purchasing the Mag StikPlus joysticks I thought they were the highest end you could get for switching form 4 to 8 and TOTALLY overlooked the ServoStik on Ultimarc's website

Not sure how to go about switching my order to ServoStiks (I think my order has already shipped) but I definitely would like to.

Edit: Do the control panels to run the ServoStiks come with the joysticks or is it a board I have to buy separate? I am not clear from Ultimarc's website, thanks!

[HaRuMaN]

@yotsuya - got any pics of that gameroom now?  Would love to see it.

I plan to shoot some now and during the party. I'll make a thread and post it soon.

[yotsuya]

Sorry, co-workers only. You're in charge of the Phoenix Meat-Up!

[BadMouth]

Meat-Up!

I don't want to know.

[yotsuya]

Meat-Up!

I don't want to know.

What happens at the Meat-Up stays at the Meat-Up.

[Bobgilb1]

What happens at the Meat-Up stays at the Meat-Up.

I think I am glad about that

[Bobgilb1]

If I end up having to purchase 15/32" MDO (can't find 5/8") would that be too thin for my control panel ya think?

I guess I would then buy 1/4" plexiglass to get as close to 3/4" as possible overall?

[BadMouth]

If I end up having to purchase 15/32" MDO (can't find 5/8") would that be too thin for my control panel ya think?

I guess I would then buy 1/4" plexiglass to get as close to 3/4" as possible overall?

Just use 3/4 MDF with thinner plexi and either round the bottom edge with a sander or use a router to remove a little off the underside all the way around the perimeter.  Nobody will ever notice.  The plexi just lays on top the mdf, so it doesn't need to be thick. 

[Bobgilb1]

If I end up having to purchase 15/32" MDO (can't find 5/8") would that be too thin for my control panel ya think?

I guess I would then buy 1/4" plexiglass to get as close to 3/4" as possible overall?

Just use 3/4 MDF with thinner plexi and either round the bottom edge with a sander or use a router to remove a little off the underside all the way around the perimeter.  Nobody will ever notice.  The plexi just lays on top the mdf, so it doesn't need to be thick.

As usual, that does make sense 

Looks like 1/16" plexi is the thinnest I can find off hand

New plan = 3/4" plywood with 1/16" plexi......sound good?

[BadMouth]

If I end up having to purchase 15/32" MDO (can't find 5/8") would that be too thin for my control panel ya think?

I guess I would then buy 1/4" plexiglass to get as close to 3/4" as possible overall?

Just use 3/4 MDF with thinner plexi and either round the bottom edge with a sander or use a router to remove a little off the underside all the way around the perimeter.  Nobody will ever notice.  The plexi just lays on top the mdf, so it doesn't need to be thick.

As usual, that does make sense 

Looks like 1/16" plexi is the thinnest I can find off hand

New plan = 3/4" plywood with 1/16" plexi......sound good?

1/16 should be fine, just don't overtighten the buttons or it might crack.

If you went with 1/8" and were planning on black or white t-molding, you could go with 11/16" molding.
http://www.t-molding.com/store/home.php?cat=23
You could also go with the thinner plexi and let the extra 1/16" hang off the bottom.

[Bobgilb1]

If I end up having to purchase 15/32" MDO (can't find 5/8") would that be too thin for my control panel ya think?

I guess I would then buy 1/4" plexiglass to get as close to 3/4" as possible overall?

Just use 3/4 MDF with thinner plexi and either round the bottom edge with a sander or use a router to remove a little off the underside all the way around the perimeter.  Nobody will ever notice.  The plexi just lays on top the mdf, so it doesn't need to be thick.

As usual, that does make sense 

Looks like 1/16" plexi is the thinnest I can find off hand

New plan = 3/4" plywood with 1/16" plexi......sound good?

1/16 should be fine, just don't overtighten the buttons or it might crack.

If you went with 1/8" and were planning on black or white t-molding, you could go with 11/16" molding.
http://www.t-molding.com/store/home.php?cat=23
You could also go with the thinner plexi and let the extra 1/16" hang off the bottom.

The advantage of the 1/8" over the 1/16" plexi would be that it would be able to handle a bit more tightening without cracking?

[ChanceKJ]

Meat-Up!

I don't want to know.

Reading this just now in bed on my ipad, laughed so hard and loud the girlfriend woke up and hit me. Hard.


Have I been here long enough to give my 2¢?

No?  Pffft whatever, I'm doing it anyway....

Bob, can I call you Bob?   ...I'm just gonna call you Bob.

Bob, don't listen to these crazies when it comes to the buttons. ESPECIALY if you plan on going heavy with the console games. Think, how many buttons would you need to play 4-player GoldenEye 64 properly?  Honestly, now that I'm getting into the thick of it I kinda wish I'd had put 6 buttons on my P3/4 spots. The 6 admin is a little over the norm, but the way I look at this all, is I'd rather have them then not.  Mind you I'm also spending a small fortune on custom wire harnesses and RGB LED lights for all buttons and sticks. But hey, I'm a little eccentric.

The key here is: put what you want on it if YOU feel you need it. Learn from some of the best practices (like the stick orientation thing) and make it your own. 

I'm also using the "Space Parinoids" CP. Heavily modified of course. Something about that "aircraft carrier" shape just seems to fit a good 4 player machine.


Oh yeah, and about that MDO, I tried looking for some here. That and MDX, couldn't find it anywhere. Tried every independent lumber shop in town. It's almost like its only made in certain global markets. Whatever, paint I guess

[BadMouth]

The advantage of the 1/8" over the 1/16" plexi would be that it would be able to handle a bit more tightening without cracking?

Probably not much difference in that respect.
Ignore that last post.  I was doing some horrible math there and thinking 11/16" t-molding came out even. 

[yotsuya]

If I may offer a conterpoint to Chance's post, try playing a N64 game with a joystick and six arcade buttons, then tell me if you prefer that to a regular controller.

[ChanceKJ]

If I may offer a conterpoint to Chance's post...

No, you may not.


 

[Xiaou2]

Marble Madness.     While most times you might be rolling the ball at a diagonal or down.. there are times when you roll it sideways.   There are also other trackball games where you would roll it sideways..  and future games, in which you might want to play.. which also utilize sideway rolling.

 Many people dial up the trackball sensitivity, and so a small amount of roll.. will result in a high character movement in mame.   The problem with this... is that its not correct.  It makes the games easier than intended..  too easy.   You also lose fine control,  like a razor vs a shovel...  so in games which require both precision, as well as speed.. you will suffer bad results on the precision control areas / aspects.

 Its also another aspect of mame that Should be attempted to document and clarify.  Documenting the encoder wheel diameter, trackballs roller diameter, ball size, and optical board signal rates..   and then with use of formulas, one could make a program which calibrates the controller to match the correct input ranges.

 It might even be easier than that.  Even if its a simple rough estimate for temp sake... by using several on the fly created comparison videos of a real machine, and a mame machine.


 As for the buttons on the 3 / 4 players.  Do a mock up mounting on a few sheets of cardboard stacked together.  Make sure that the angle of the buttons feels comfortable with the stance you will need to take. (Utilize the stick at the same time as well, to make sure of distances and help with accurate results in the button tests)

 Also, I agree with the recent post.   If you are planning to play console games that use more than 4 buttons..  and you do not mind making the control panel a little wider..  do it.    This is about your happiness..  not trying to please the cabnazi's.   Theres never a way to please everyone else...  so dont bother.   Do what pleases you, for you.

 Note, that if you lose your 4ways.. games like MsPacman wont play very good.  Physical restriction is a completely different experience... and its far better than spacer flip sticks or virtual restriction.  Nothing comes close.   If you dont play 4way games much, and do not care about losing lives quicker.. then its another story.

 If you want to play games like Asteroids Deluxe.. you may consider putting at lease one real leafswitch button on there.   These are great for rapidfire games, as you wont get as fatigued as when you try with microswitches.   The new hybrid micro-leafs are better than micros for less effort + reaction speed.. but they still wont feel nor be less fatiguing than a real classic leafswitch.

 If you want to play Robotron..  you would want two real wico 8 way leafswitches.  IMO, nothing else can match their performance and feel, for this game.   Leaf sticks also feel better for older classics games.   They do not work very good for fighters however.

 A spinner is a must IMO.   Otherwise you lose out on some excellent games.  You can also use a spinner to control driving games.   You can put a pedal set as the base of the cabinet too.   Also, you can mount a spinner horizontally, like a volume knob... (in the front of the CP face) though, I do not think anyone here has done so yet.

 A trigger stick or button topped stick, would complement the spinner... and allow many of the dual controller games, such as Tron, and Mad Planets... among many more.  Mad Planets alone is worth it, IMO.

 If you play Virtual Pinball..  you may want to add an analog plunger, and internal bump sensor.

 If you want some cool effect..   pop a few bass-shakers in there.   Similar to a subwoofer.. but they do not move air.  Instead, they just take the sounds, and turn the mid to lower bass / sub frequencies into direct vibrations.

 Comfort Ideas..   One thing I plan on doing, is adding a set of fans that blow air over the players hands.. to keep them sweat free.  Possible under CP using angle drilled holes..   Possible small protruding vent hoods.  And Or possibly in the panels backplate..  which could have a row of them.

[Nephasth]

If I may offer a conterpoint to Chance's post, try playing a N64 game with a joystick and six arcade buttons, then tell me if you prefer that to a regular controller.

Yeah, 64 emulation is no bueno with arcade controls.

[thatpurplestuff]

If I may offer a conterpoint to Chance's post, try playing a N64 game with a joystick and six arcade buttons, then tell me if you prefer that to a regular controller.

Yeah, 64 emulation is no bueno with arcade controls.

I've gotta agree with these fine gentlemen, and this is coming from someone that had high hopes of playing N64 on my old cab.  I played a few games and overall the buttons were just a nightmare... you've got the A, B & Z buttons, then all the yellow directionals, then the shoulder buttons... that's 9 not including the start button or D-pad.

I still plan on playing N64 on my new cab, but it's going to be using actual controllers hooked up via USB. 

[yotsuya]

Also, I agree with the recent post.   If you are planning to play console games that use more than 4 buttons..  and you do not mind making the control panel a little wider..  do it.    This is about your happiness..  not trying to please the cabnazi's.   Theres never a way to please everyone else...  so dont bother.   Do what pleases you, for you.

Ja, weil die Anzahl der Schaltflächen auf seinem Taxi nur im Kopf so viel wiegt. Auch ficken Sie und Ihre Nazi-Vergleiche, Xiaou2. Wir sprechen aus Erfahrung.

[yotsuya]

If I may offer a conterpoint to Chance's post, try playing a N64 game with a joystick and six arcade buttons, then tell me if you prefer that to a regular controller.

Yeah, 64 emulation is no bueno with arcade controls.

I've gotta agree with these fine gentlemen, and this is coming from someone that had high hopes of playing N64 on my old cab.  I played a few games and overall the buttons were just a nightmare... you've got the A, B & Z buttons, then all the yellow directionals, then the shoulder buttons... that's 9 not including the start button or D-pad.

I still plan on playing N64 on my new cab, but it's going to be using actual controllers hooked up via USB.

This. This. This. So much this.

No one's pulling opinions out of their ---uvulas---. It's been tested, tried, and ultimately rejected by many of us here. But do what you want. We CabNazis need to go plan to annex the Rhine or something like that.