New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick

[RandyT]

Here's something new we are offering, which some here may find to be an interesting option;

More details are available at the store.  Just click on the image

RandyT

[jdbailey1206]

Excellent Randy.  Just in time for my Fix It Felix build.  Excited to see how it field tests.   

[benll64]

Dang it, Randy! Why do you keep making cool new stuff?

I recently put one of your true-leaf pro 4-ways in my Ms. Pac machine, but I'm thinking this new stick will be better...

Does it use the wico-style rubber grommet for centering?

[RandyT]

Dang it, Randy! Why do you keep making cool new stuff?

I recently put one of your true-leaf pro 4-ways in my Ms. Pac machine, but I'm thinking this new stick will be better...

Does it use the wico-style rubber grommet for centering?

Heh...Dancers need to dance....

The difference between the Leaf-Pro 4-way and the Pac-Pro are;

Leaf-Pro:  Thinner shaft, shorter throw, 60mm square on-center mounting holes, shallower footprint.

Pac-Pro:  Standard 10mm shaft (compatible with VersaBall2 shafts), longer throw, bolt-up compatible with standard HAPP, X-arcade, etc.. type mounting patterns, deeper footprint, able to take serious abuse.

Both do a great job, but each have their benefits depending on the installation.

The Pac-Pro does still use a spring centering mechanism, but it is very smooth.  It's based on the "Reunion" hardware, which many here really seem to like.

[benll64]

OK, that's very helpful, thanks.

Does that mean the red balltop is a Hand Candy? Or if not, could it be?

[RandyT]

No, the balltop is fixed.  It is compatible with 10mm replacement shafts, like the VersaBall2 (which comes with a Hand Candy Balltop)

[opt2not]

Cool! 

[yotsuya]

Ordered. 

[yotsuya]

Shipped! 

[jdbailey1206]

Yotsuya let us know how it plays.

[yotsuya]

I will. Randy's always offered me quality products and service, so I'm looking forward to this.

I have the Happ Reunion microswitch stick this is based on, and it's a pretty good stick if you get an authentic one (there's knockoffs on eBay). I bought a pair of authentic ones off Bob Roberts for my cocktail and like them, but I'm hoping this stick knocks it out of the park. I'll compare the two and keep you all updated.

Thanks, Randy!

[yotsuya]

Christmas Christmas time is here....

[yotsuya]

This stick is TIIIIIIGHT...

[yotsuya]

Early thoughts on this stick-

I don't have it installed yet, but I plan to later this week. However, just holding it in hand and moving it back and forth, I can tell you that it feels GREAT. There's no click for activation, obviously, so movement feels fluid. Centering is just right. It was smart to base this stick off the Reunion base, Randy. I can't wait to install it. More to come.

[RandyT]

Early thoughts on this stick-

I don't have it installed yet, but I plan to later this week. However, just holding it in hand and moving it back and forth, I can tell you that it feels GREAT. There's no click for activation, obviously, so movement feels fluid. Centering is just right. It was smart to base this stick off the Reunion base, Randy. I can't wait to install it. More to come.

Thanks for the feedback so far.  I'm eager to hear your thoughts once you start using it

[Jumpman64]

Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

[yotsuya]

Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

The restrictor is molded into the body. If you want an 8 way, he sells those.

Hope to install this tonight or tomorrow night. I'll keep you posted.

[Cynicaster]

This looks freakin’ sweet!

What is the maximum control panel thickness on which this stick would be workable?

And those Versa-Ball things… am I understanding correctly—do they basically provide stick length adjustment by means of various selectable e-clip grooves? 

[Jumpman64]

Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

The restrictor is molded into the body. If you want an 8 way, he sells those.

Hope to install this tonight or tomorrow night. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the info on the restrictor, but too bad because no, he does not sell the same stick in 8-way form.  It's a rather different animal.

[jdbailey1206]

Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

The restrictor is molded into the body. If you want an 8 way, he sells those.

Hope to install this tonight or tomorrow night. I'll keep you posted.

Any word yet Yotsuya?

-Bailey

[yotsuya]

Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

The restrictor is molded into the body. If you want an 8 way, he sells those.

Hope to install this tonight or tomorrow night. I'll keep you posted.

Any word yet Yotsuya?

-Bailey

Sorry, I've had a few busy nights. This weekend, though, I promise. I have an electrician friend coming out to run three dedicated lines to my game room, so after that it will finished and I can tweak the games.

[wp34]

Sorry, I've had a few busy nights. This weekend, though, I promise. I have an electrician friend coming out to run three dedicated lines to my game room, so after that it will finished and I can tweak the games.

Holy cow!  This new joystick requires a dedicated 120 circuit?   

I'm anxious to hear your review as well.  I just purchased a couple of reunion sticks but would prefer to have leaf switches.

[yotsuya]

Installed. 

Review tomorrow morning.

[jdbailey1206]

Installed. 

Review tomorrow morning.

 

[yotsuya]

OK, I got the stick installed last night. We're having a big party on Saturday, and it's the first time I've had a lot of non-family people over to play in the game room, so I'm working on overhauling it. This stick is part of the overhaul.

I mentioned when I got it how quiet the stick is. For four-way games, I like the original Reunion, but like all microswitch sticks, it's clicky. The click doesn't bother me so much as the having to wait to activate the switch. That's just the nature of how microswitch joysticks are. Because of that, movements always feel a bit more exaggerated to me. That's the main reason why the Pac-Pro™ appeals to me.

Installation-

I put my original Reunion sticks on my HaRuMaNcustoms.com cocktail kit. I fabbed my own control panels, so the sticks were mounted on metal panels. Since the Pac-Pro uses the same body, it was a simple matter to unbolt the old Reunion and swap in the new one. I did have to shift the wiring, though. For example, the switch that handles the "UP" command on the original reunion is not the same on the Pac-Pro. All that means is that I had to shift each connection over 90 degrees clockwise. My wiring, from top, right, down, left was red, orange, green, yellow. On the new stick it is yellow, red, orange, green. Not an issue by any stretch, but it was something I had to do. Just noting it for posterity's sake.

The stick fit the mounting hole pattern perfectly, of course. I did bend the leaf connects a little on the bottom and side switch for better clearance. The leafs stick out a bit more than a microswitch, and you have to add on the length of the quick disconnects, but again, it wasn't an issue.

I installed the panel back on to the cocktail, fired it up, and tested it out.

TESTING-

I immediately noticed that scrolling felt smoother in the AtomicFE menu that I have set up. I was pleased. I went down to Pac-Man speed hack and loaded it. I've gotten fairly good at it, so I wanted to see how it felt.

Wow.

Just wow.

In fact, initially it felt TOO good. Moving around was fluid, but because I was so used to waiting for the click to tell me that I could change direction, I missed some tunnels and passageways. Once I got used to it,  it felt fine. Because of the built-in molded restriction on the stick, there are no dead spots. The leafs felt very responsive, especially when I loaded up Galaga. If you've used a Reunion, it's the same feel without having to wait for the click.

The only thing that keeps it from being a perfect replica is the use of a spring for centering as opposed to a rubber grommet. In some instances, you can slightly hear/feel the spring when you make your initial move, but that has no effect on gameplay. I just mention that for those who might expect an EXACT replica of an old-school leaf. I'm sure the spring will ride up with wear. The stick works as advertised and expected.

I know that cost-wise, they are a bit high, but I've done the Zippyy in 4-way mode and the Sawna for 4-way mode as well as tried some other sticks, but there is no comparison. The Zippyy just feels too loose, and the Sanwa, while fine, doesn't feel like a Reunion. I've played with the knock-off Reunions you can get on eBay for $15, and there is a difference between the actual Happ Reunions that are in the mid-$20 range. With that in mind, the Pac-Pro is definitely worth what you pay for it. The stick has one job- to serve as a physically-restricted interface for 2- and 4-way games, and it does it quite well.

In all, it's a GREAT pickup. Once the holidays are over, I'm going to get a second one for Player Two. 

[Pingaloka]

Very nice review yotsuya. Have you actually tried the Leaf-Pro™? I'm planning on getting one or the other for 4 way games, being Donkey Kong the most game I play the most. I haven't decided yet.....but thanx to your review I might try this one.

[yotsuya]

Very nice review yotsuya. Have you actually tried the Leaf-Pro™? I'm planning on getting one or the other for 4 way games, being Donkey Kong the most game I play the most. I haven't decided yet.....but thanx to your review I might try this one.

I did.... and then I sold it off a few months later and dropped in a Sanwa on that project before eventually installing a Reunion. There's no comparison. The Pac-Pro is a drop-in ready solution, with the Leaf-Pro you'll have to make some modifications. It's worth the extra to go with the Pac-Pro.

[Pingaloka]

I think I'm getting it, oh yes!! I might as well buy a Reunion stick to check which one fits better on a Donkey KOng cab. Love trying and compring different joysticks. In the end is actually a matter of personal taste.

[paigeoliver]

Why not just get a proper Nintendo stick? They aren't hard to find.

I think I'm getting it, oh yes!! I might as well buy a Reunion stick to check which one fits better on a Donkey KOng cab. Love trying and compring different joysticks. In the end is actually a matter of personal taste.

[Pingaloka]

Well I live in Spain, no Nintendo cabs over here....I'm sure that eventually I'll find one. I know MikesArcade used to have, not anymore though.
Last christmas I was in the USA, New York, and for the first time I played in a real Donkey Kong original cabinet.
Loved it! Even thought the joystick felt a bit loose....I guess it is because is more than 20 years old....hehe...

[deadmoney5]

Although I love the reunion stick, and use it in my cab, it is a much more stiff joystick than I remember when playing in the arcades.  I might have to try this new one out..especially since it will fit exactly like the reunion.

[yotsuya]

Although I love the reunion stick, and use it in my cab, it is a much more stiff joystick than I remember when playing in the arcades.  I might have to try this new one out..especially since it will fit exactly like the reunion.

Yes, I agree. The best thing about this joystick are the leafs. I'd love to see if someone could make a rubber grommet for these things.

[pbj]

Why even bother designing such a niche product just to use a spring?

 

[yotsuya]

Why even bother designing such a niche product just to use a spring?

 

This stick with leafs and a spring is better than any other 4-way solution out there.

[RandyT]

Why even bother designing such a niche product just to use a spring?

I'm not sure why you think it's a niche product.  A grommet, and the associated extra parts, would add considerably to the price tag.  Surely a man as thrifty as yourself can see the value in a higher performing, lower cost (relative to a grommet version) alternative, which bolts up to a standard mounting pattern.

[deadmoney5]

ordered..

[Cynicaster]

Hey Randy, I might be interested in ordering.  Can you help me out with my earlier question?  Thanks...

What is the maximum control panel thickness on which this stick would be workable?

And those Versa-Ball things… am I understanding correctly—do they basically provide stick length adjustment by means of various selectable e-clip grooves?

 

[RandyT]

What is the maximum control panel thickness on which this stick would be workable?

And those Versa-Ball things… am I understanding correctly—do they basically provide stick length adjustment by means of various selectable e-clip grooves?

The first one depends a lot on what you are willing or able to do.  The optimal installation is on a metal panel with studs or carriage bolts.  But really, any thickness panel can be used if top mounted with an overlay.

And yes, the VersBall2 shafts will make the shaft longer.  There are two settings for length.  However, longer shafts will reduce how precise the stick feels (longer shafts equal longer throws) so this needs to be weighed carefully for optimal performance of any stick.  With an 8-way, adjustments can be made to account for this without major disadvantage, but a 4-way has a fixed sized restrictor.  Everything is tuned to this, so any adjustments made to decrease throw before actuation, will likely result in enabling areas where diagonals are possible.

[Cynicaster]

What is the maximum control panel thickness on which this stick would be workable?

And those Versa-Ball things… am I understanding correctly—do they basically provide stick length adjustment by means of various selectable e-clip grooves?

The first one depends a lot on what you are willing or able to do.  The optimal installation is on a metal panel with studs or carriage bolts.  But really, any thickness panel can be used if top mounted with an overlay.

And yes, the VersBall2 shafts will make the shaft longer.  There are two settings for length.  However, longer shafts will reduce how precise the stick feels (longer shafts equal longer throws) so this needs to be weighed carefully for optimal performance of any stick.  With an 8-way, adjustments can be made to account for this without major disadvantage, but a 4-way has a fixed sized restrictor.  Everything is tuned to this, so any adjustments made to decrease throw before actuation, will likely result in enabling areas where diagonals are possible.

Thanks.

As I expected, it sounds like there will be no way around using a mounting plate if I want the true experience.  Do you sell one that works with the Pac-Pro, or would I need to fabricate it? 

[KonkeyKong]

Anyone able to comment on activation force?  Also would I be able to install a weaker spring if desired?

[deadmoney5]

Just installed mine yesterday.  Love it.  It definately feels like a real pacman stick..and I'm picky as all hell.  It is a little more stiff than I remember, but nothing that takes away from the 4-way experience.  The leaf's make the control feel a lot more responsive, too.

I'm not sure what a grommet would have added since I've never used a leaf stick before..

Overall I'm glad I ordered this stick and will be leaving it my cab, which leaves my reunion stick as a backup

[Pingaloka]

Just got mine, I have a question. How do I mount the stick? I have a wooden panel. I can't remove the top red ball. Do I have to unmount the whole stick?

[chopperthedog]

Just got mine, I have a question. How do I mount the stick? I have a wooden panel. I can't remove the top red ball. Do I have to unmount the whole stick?

Google "removing e clip from joystick"


good day.

[Xiaou2]

Just installed mine yesterday.  Love it.  It definately feels like a real pacman stick..and I'm picky as all hell.  It is a little more stiff than I remember, but nothing that takes away from the 4-way experience.  The leaf's make the control feel a lot more responsive, too.

I'm not sure what a grommet would have added since I've never used a leaf stick before..

Overall I'm glad I ordered this stick and will be leaving it my cab, which leaves my reunion stick as a backup

 Your statements are contradictory.   You say it feels like a real Pacman stick...  then you say your not sure what a grommet would add.    Meaning... you either cant remember what a real pacman stick feels like,  or you have only ever used a generic Reunion stick... or similar Inferior replacement.

 And Yeah..  the reason its Stiff, is because its a Super.  They Stink.  Tore every one off the machines that were in the arcade I managed, and put in Comps immediately.  (to much rejoice)

 They are durable.  But they are ugly, and have a ton of friction to them.  Their typical leaf-micros often get bent and warped, making diagonals a wench to activate.

 The REAL Pacman sticks, use a center pivot grommet.  Unlike a spring pivot, which creates a stick-offset as well as a good deal of resistance to get it going...  A grommet will allow the pivot to remain in perfect center, for faster activation due to less distances traveled.  It also has a uniform resistance, which is pretty light.  Where as a spring based has a range of resistance that multiplies until its surpassed.  That initial surge, or WALL of resistance, is felt every time you have to roll past center.   

 In the supers, they use a lot of plastic sleeves, and these sleeves and pivots, are very tight and frictional.  The best thing you could try to do.. is to spray some Formula 21  or other thin lubricant, to help reduce the friction.


 While its nice to have cheap options...  IMO, its far better to have the real deal being reproduced, and have to save up more for it... than to suffer with lackluster compromises.

[RandyT]

Your statements are contradictory.   You say it feels like a real Pacman stick...  then you say your not sure what a grommet would add.    Meaning... you either cant remember what a real pacman stick feels like,  or you have only ever used a generic Reunion stick... or similar Inferior replacement.

I think very few folks here actually know what a factory-fresh Pac-Man stick feels like (perhaps not even you.)  Usually, by the time anyone used them on a machine, the grommets were well broken in, if not quite damaged.  Personally, I like the feel of a good grommet stick over the spring centering, but they are not without their own idiosyncrasies.  Most don't know this, but those "centering grommets" were not designed by the arcade manufacturers to do the job they ultimately ended up doing.  They were an existing item, used in a very different industry, and re-purposed for the task.  As such, they suffered a lot of wear, and basically started being damaged almost immediately, being that they were subjected to forces well beyond what their design anticipated.  That's why when you buy a used grommet stick, the grommet is usually destroyed.  They are quite stiff when new.

They are durable.  But they are ugly, and have a ton of friction to them.  Their typical leaf-micros often get bent and warped, making diagonals a wench to activate.

After someone beats the heck out of them in a commercial environment, and the restriction becomes worn, then it's possible for the actuator to reach farther than when new.  I haven't seen this ability to push the actuation far enough to bend switch levers on a new stick, but it's possible if the levers have been bent inward.  If anything, diagonals on a Super might be too sensitive for some, especially after using a Competition.  Regardless, your assertion that the Reunion "is a Super" is just incorrect.  Completely different shaft, actuator and restriction pattern. 

The REAL Pacman sticks, use a center pivot grommet.  Unlike a spring pivot, which creates a stick-offset as well as a good deal of resistance to get it going...  A grommet will allow the pivot to remain in perfect center, for faster activation due to less distances traveled.  It also has a uniform resistance, which is pretty light.  Where as a spring based has a range of resistance that multiplies until its surpassed.  That initial surge, or WALL of resistance, is felt every time you have to roll past center.   

Again, not entirely correct.  Rubber grommets absolutely do not have a "uniform resistance".  Resistance with a rubber grommet starts out small, and increases very rapidly the farther off center it is pushed.  4-way joysticks typically have a fairly long throw, so that higher resistance will be reached pretty quickly in use.  It's also important to note that the farther off center the grommetted shaft is pushed, the more twisting of the grommet center occurs, thereby increasing the damaging effects of using them in this manner.  This is why they are torn up so badly on older machines in disrepair.  On the other hand, the spring centering is much more uniform in resistance, with the exception of the small bump at the center.  My own tests show that a Super, extended to the restriction limit, requires about .75lbs of force.  A grommet centered stick, with the same shaft length, takes about .97lbs of force to move the actuation the same distance.  So yes, it's true that grommet sticks are smoother across center, but that comes at a price of longevity and more resistance.  It's also worth noting that a Competition, like other spring centered sticks, has the same positive centering, so it's nice to see that it doesn't bother you on that model.

Bear in mind that in this particular assembly (one I know you have not tried before "poo-pooing" it) there is further reduction of forces required for actuation, due to the fact that the 100gram activation force switches have been replaced with real leaf switches, which not only reduce activation forces by ~90grams, but also have a near zero distance "reset" before being activated again.

In other words, a little experience and data from the actual item can go a long way when making an assessment.

[Jumpman64]

Just put one of these along with a leaf switch button in a Reunion cab I purchased for a friend.  I only played a couple of games to test it out but it worked great and felt far better than the original stick.  The only complaint I have is it will occasionally make a "pop" sound as you play.  I'm not sure what part is popping against what other part, but something is happening there.  Seems like a minor issue though, as long as it doesn't get worse.

[Donkey_Kong]

Whats the difference between this stick, an original pac man stick, and an original ms pacman stick?

Heck while we're at it, what about that Donkey Kong stick? Is this (the pac-pro) a good DK stick as well?

[Jumpman64]

Well original Pac & Ms. Pac sticks I think had a wooden ball, and they were centered by a rubber grommet.  Otherwise, fairly similar.  DK sticks are quite different and I would not recommend this stick for use in a DK.  Real DK sticks are not that hard to find and replacement springs, restrictors, and other parts can be found at Mike's Arcade so I would suggest to go that route.

[Malenko]

any chance of these getting made with a slightly longer shaft for wood panels?

[tron84]

  The only complaint I have is it will occasionally make a "pop" sound as you play.  I'm not sure what part is popping against what other part, but something is happening there.  Seems like a minor issue though, as long as it doesn't get worse.

The Pivot Cylinder is upside down. When the stick was removed to mount it, it got put back on upside down.  The wide end of the pivot needs to be at the bottom, not the top of the base.  I had the same popping sound in my reunion stick & it was caused by the pivot cylinder being upside down.  Once it is in right, there will be NO popping sound at all.

 

[Jumpman64]

Hrmm, well, rhis is how it was:

[RandyT]

That looks correct.  Most likely this sound is caused by the internal part at the bottom of the spring, which is designed to shift.  It should smooth out as the parts start to wear a bit with use, but if you like, you can probably use some white lithium grease where the plastic parts meet to allow that part to slide more smoothly.  If you use the spray version, you can probably do it without the need to open the base.

But I would use it a while to break it in first, as it probably won't be necessary after that.

[Jumpman64]

I think I figured it out -- the dust washer was below the panel   plays perfectly now!

[2600]

Randy, when using the Pac-Pro with the Versaball2 shaft have an option to keep it at it's original height?

[Malenko]

any chance of these getting made with a slightly longer shaft for wood panels?

[yotsuya]

I just wanted to follow up and say that I'm still lovin' mine!!!!

[WindDrake]

I wonder.

Since the Versaball2 shafts fit Super bases, shouldn't they fit this stick (same base, I think?) for folks wanting Wood panels?

Similarly, these sticks would fit the 8-Way Super/Super-Pro bases for "Standard" height play, rather than the 4" Robotron-Style stick length that you get with a metal panel on the Versaball2 shafts...

Anybody have the parts to mix/match and try this? No real need, just a sort of academic wondering.

[dfmaverick]

Since the Versaball2 shafts fit Super bases, shouldn't they fit this stick (same base, I think?) for folks wanting Wood panels?

Pac-Pro:  Standard 10mm shaft (compatible with VersaBall2 shafts), longer throw, bolt-up compatible with standard HAPP, X-arcade, etc.. type mounting patterns, deeper footprint, able to take serious abuse.

[RandyT]

Randy, when using the Pac-Pro with the Versaball2 shaft have an option to keep it at it's original height?

The VersaBall2 shafts are a stepped design, with a thicker upper shaft, so the minimum length is fixed.  It can be longer, and extra grooves are there for that, but not shorter.  I have some hollow stainless shafts, but extra e-clip grooves would need to be added to do this.  I'll look into some shorter shafts for these.

any chance of these getting made with a slightly longer shaft for wood panels?

Define "slightly" .  They would need to be an extra 3/4"+1/8" long to cover most of the bases.  I'm not sure how this would affect the feel and operation of the stick.  The leaf switches could be adjusted to compensate for the extra swing caused by the added length, but the restriction size is fixed.  By time the switch reaction speed was brought back, there would be possibly unacceptable crossover (diagonals) with a longer shaft.  An extra restrictor plate would probably be required to do this properly.

Since the Versaball2 shafts fit Super bases, shouldn't they fit this stick (same base, I think?) for folks wanting Wood panels?

Similarly, these sticks would fit the 8-Way Super/Super-Pro bases for "Standard" height play, rather than the 4" Robotron-Style stick length that you get with a metal panel on the Versaball2 shafts...

Yes, they would.  I'm in the process of getting some replacement shaft parts made for other sticks, and we are almost out of the VersaBall2 shafts.  The VB2 shafts are great for folks with metal panels, looking for a "Robotron" length balltop.  A couple of these with the Super-Pros, and it'd be pretty close to the performance of the original in that regard.  But I think the next revision will be a bit shorter, so maybe we can kill a couple of birds with one stone.  It would be great to have a single shaft that does it all, but the visible grooves on the upper part of the shaft would be unattractive when used at the longer settings.  I may have a solution...

[2600]

Randy, when using the Pac-Pro with the Versaball2 shaft have an option to keep it at it's original height?

The VersaBall2 shafts are a stepped design, with a thicker upper shaft, so the minimum length is fixed.  It can be longer, and extra grooves are there for that, but not shorter.  I have some hollow stainless shafts, but extra e-clip grooves would need to be added to do this.  I'll look into some shorter shafts for these.

Just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly since there was a flood of questions.  The current VersaBall2 would make the ball up a bit higher then the stock shaft?  Do you know how much higher?

[Malenko]

slightly as in, the CP is 1/2" MDF.

[mann0mann]

I apologize for asking what appears to be the same question, but it's just not clear to me after reading this several times.

If you wanted to buy a Pac-Pro and use the Versa-ball 2 shaft on it so you could change the balltop.  Does the Versa-ball 2 shaft allow for the exact same height as the stock shaft?

I understand it *CAN* be longer...but can it be the same as the stock height?

I want to install one in a metal midway CP control panel, but I would like the ability to have a custom balltop instead

[copyimitation]

I know this post is old, but I don't see any others regarding these two joysticks. (Leaf Pro vs Pac-pro Leaf) I've got a 9-in-1 cab with DK, Ms. Pacman, Dig Dug, Frogger, Burger Time (that's what i play of the 9) and I'm looking for a 4 way leaf switch. My cab is an old Kozmic Krooz'r that someone converted to a boxing game years ago. So the CP is metal and has an old pair of 8 way leaf sticks now. Which of the two sticks would you recommend?

[swahiliboy]

copyimitation,

I'm just getting going on my set up, but I have two 8-way leaf-pros and a dedicated 4-way pac-pro.  The pac-pro feels great for 4-way games, and it was miles better than my 8-way configured leaf-pros.  Not sure how it would compare to the leaf-pro configured to be a 4-way.  My only issue with the pac-pro was installing it in my 3/4" control panel, but I got it to work.  Presumably you wouldn't have that issue with your metal control panel.  Hope that helps a little bit.