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Author Topic: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick  (Read 18440 times)

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RandyT

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New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« on: November 26, 2013, 11:43:17 am »

Here's something new we are offering, which some here may find to be an interesting option;


More details are available at the store.  Just click on the image :)

RandyT

jdbailey1206

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 12:07:02 pm »
Excellent Randy.  Just in time for my Fix It Felix build.  Excited to see how it field tests.   :applaud:

benll64

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 12:08:28 pm »
Dang it, Randy! Why do you keep making cool new stuff? :)

I recently put one of your true-leaf pro 4-ways in my Ms. Pac machine, but I'm thinking this new stick will be better...

Does it use the wico-style rubber grommet for centering?

RandyT

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 12:29:14 pm »
Dang it, Randy! Why do you keep making cool new stuff? :)

I recently put one of your true-leaf pro 4-ways in my Ms. Pac machine, but I'm thinking this new stick will be better...

Does it use the wico-style rubber grommet for centering?

Heh...Dancers need to dance....

The difference between the Leaf-Pro 4-way and the Pac-Pro are;

Leaf-Pro:  Thinner shaft, shorter throw, 60mm square on-center mounting holes, shallower footprint.

Pac-Pro:  Standard 10mm shaft (compatible with VersaBall2 shafts), longer throw, bolt-up compatible with standard HAPP, X-arcade, etc.. type mounting patterns, deeper footprint, able to take serious abuse.

Both do a great job, but each have their benefits depending on the installation.

The Pac-Pro does still use a spring centering mechanism, but it is very smooth.  It's based on the "Reunion" hardware, which many here really seem to like.

benll64

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 12:40:10 pm »
OK, that's very helpful, thanks.

Does that mean the red balltop is a Hand Candy? Or if not, could it be?

RandyT

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 12:45:24 pm »

No, the balltop is fixed.  It is compatible with 10mm replacement shafts, like the VersaBall2 (which comes with a Hand Candy Balltop)

opt2not

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 02:21:27 pm »
Cool!  :applaud:

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2013, 02:41:42 pm »
Ordered.  ;D
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2013, 12:32:33 pm »
Shipped!  :o
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

jdbailey1206

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 01:12:24 pm »
Yotsuya let us know how it plays.

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 02:54:48 pm »
I will. Randy's always offered me quality products and service, so I'm looking forward to this.

I have the Happ Reunion microswitch stick this is based on, and it's a pretty good stick if you get an authentic one (there's knockoffs on eBay). I bought a pair of authentic ones off Bob Roberts for my cocktail and like them, but I'm hoping this stick knocks it out of the park. I'll compare the two and keep you all updated.

Thanks, Randy!
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2013, 09:45:08 pm »
Christmas Christmas time is here....
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2013, 09:51:26 pm »
This stick is TIIIIIIGHT... :)
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2013, 05:09:04 pm »
Early thoughts on this stick-

I don't have it installed yet, but I plan to later this week. However, just holding it in hand and moving it back and forth, I can tell you that it feels GREAT. There's no click for activation, obviously, so movement feels fluid. Centering is just right. It was smart to base this stick off the Reunion base, Randy. I can't wait to install it. More to come.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

RandyT

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2013, 09:12:27 pm »
Early thoughts on this stick-

I don't have it installed yet, but I plan to later this week. However, just holding it in hand and moving it back and forth, I can tell you that it feels GREAT. There's no click for activation, obviously, so movement feels fluid. Centering is just right. It was smart to base this stick off the Reunion base, Randy. I can't wait to install it. More to come.

Thanks for the feedback so far.  I'm eager to hear your thoughts once you start using it ;)


Jumpman64

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2013, 11:51:31 am »
Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2013, 12:41:40 pm »
Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

The restrictor is molded into the body. If you want an 8 way, he sells those.

Hope to install this tonight or tomorrow night. I'll keep you posted.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

Cynicaster

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2013, 01:17:52 pm »
This looks freakin’ sweet!

What is the maximum control panel thickness on which this stick would be workable?

And those Versa-Ball things… am I understanding correctly—do they basically provide stick length adjustment by means of various selectable e-clip grooves? 


Jumpman64

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2013, 12:45:27 am »
Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

The restrictor is molded into the body. If you want an 8 way, he sells those.

Hope to install this tonight or tomorrow night. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the info on the restrictor, but too bad because no, he does not sell the same stick in 8-way form.  It's a rather different animal.

jdbailey1206

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2013, 07:16:09 am »
Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

The restrictor is molded into the body. If you want an 8 way, he sells those.

Hope to install this tonight or tomorrow night. I'll keep you posted.

Any word yet Yotsuya?

-Bailey
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 07:50:09 am by jdbailey1206 »

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2013, 09:49:22 am »
Is the restrictor removable?  Would be nice to have this stick in 8-way form as well.

The restrictor is molded into the body. If you want an 8 way, he sells those.

Hope to install this tonight or tomorrow night. I'll keep you posted.

Any word yet Yotsuya?

-Bailey

Sorry, I've had a few busy nights. This weekend, though, I promise. I have an electrician friend coming out to run three dedicated lines to my game room, so after that it will finished and I can tweak the games.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

wp34

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2013, 10:11:19 am »
Sorry, I've had a few busy nights. This weekend, though, I promise. I have an electrician friend coming out to run three dedicated lines to my game room, so after that it will finished and I can tweak the games.

Holy cow!  This new joystick requires a dedicated 120 circuit?   >:D

I'm anxious to hear your review as well.  I just purchased a couple of reunion sticks but would prefer to have leaf switches.

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2013, 11:45:12 pm »
Installed.  :o

Review tomorrow morning.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

jdbailey1206

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2013, 07:23:28 am »
Installed.  :o

Review tomorrow morning.



 :laugh:

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2013, 11:07:27 am »
OK, I got the stick installed last night. We're having a big party on Saturday, and it's the first time I've had a lot of non-family people over to play in the game room, so I'm working on overhauling it. This stick is part of the overhaul.

I mentioned when I got it how quiet the stick is. For four-way games, I like the original Reunion, but like all microswitch sticks, it's clicky. The click doesn't bother me so much as the having to wait to activate the switch. That's just the nature of how microswitch joysticks are. Because of that, movements always feel a bit more exaggerated to me. That's the main reason why the Pac-Pro™ appeals to me.

Installation-

I put my original Reunion sticks on my HaRuMaNcustoms.com cocktail kit. I fabbed my own control panels, so the sticks were mounted on metal panels. Since the Pac-Pro uses the same body, it was a simple matter to unbolt the old Reunion and swap in the new one. I did have to shift the wiring, though. For example, the switch that handles the "UP" command on the original reunion is not the same on the Pac-Pro. All that means is that I had to shift each connection over 90 degrees clockwise. My wiring, from top, right, down, left was red, orange, green, yellow. On the new stick it is yellow, red, orange, green. Not an issue by any stretch, but it was something I had to do. Just noting it for posterity's sake.

The stick fit the mounting hole pattern perfectly, of course. I did bend the leaf connects a little on the bottom and side switch for better clearance. The leafs stick out a bit more than a microswitch, and you have to add on the length of the quick disconnects, but again, it wasn't an issue.

I installed the panel back on to the cocktail, fired it up, and tested it out.

TESTING-

I immediately noticed that scrolling felt smoother in the AtomicFE menu that I have set up. I was pleased. I went down to Pac-Man speed hack and loaded it. I've gotten fairly good at it, so I wanted to see how it felt.

Wow.

Just wow.

In fact, initially it felt TOO good. Moving around was fluid, but because I was so used to waiting for the click to tell me that I could change direction, I missed some tunnels and passageways. Once I got used to it,  it felt fine. Because of the built-in molded restriction on the stick, there are no dead spots. The leafs felt very responsive, especially when I loaded up Galaga. If you've used a Reunion, it's the same feel without having to wait for the click.

The only thing that keeps it from being a perfect replica is the use of a spring for centering as opposed to a rubber grommet. In some instances, you can slightly hear/feel the spring when you make your initial move, but that has no effect on gameplay. I just mention that for those who might expect an EXACT replica of an old-school leaf. I'm sure the spring will ride up with wear. The stick works as advertised and expected.

I know that cost-wise, they are a bit high, but I've done the Zippyy in 4-way mode and the Sawna for 4-way mode as well as tried some other sticks, but there is no comparison. The Zippyy just feels too loose, and the Sanwa, while fine, doesn't feel like a Reunion. I've played with the knock-off Reunions you can get on eBay for $15, and there is a difference between the actual Happ Reunions that are in the mid-$20 range. With that in mind, the Pac-Pro is definitely worth what you pay for it. The stick has one job- to serve as a physically-restricted interface for 2- and 4-way games, and it does it quite well.

In all, it's a GREAT pickup. Once the holidays are over, I'm going to get a second one for Player Two.  :gobama
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Pingaloka

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2013, 11:21:32 am »
Very nice review yotsuya. Have you actually tried the Leaf-Pro™? I'm planning on getting one or the other for 4 way games, being Donkey Kong the most game I play the most. I haven't decided yet.....but thanx to your review I might try this one.

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2013, 11:27:51 am »
Very nice review yotsuya. Have you actually tried the Leaf-Pro™? I'm planning on getting one or the other for 4 way games, being Donkey Kong the most game I play the most. I haven't decided yet.....but thanx to your review I might try this one.

I did.... and then I sold it off a few months later and dropped in a Sanwa on that project before eventually installing a Reunion. There's no comparison. The Pac-Pro is a drop-in ready solution, with the Leaf-Pro you'll have to make some modifications. It's worth the extra to go with the Pac-Pro.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 11:30:50 am by yotsuya »
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Pingaloka

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2013, 11:42:02 am »
I think I'm getting it, oh yes!! I might as well buy a Reunion stick to check which one fits better on a Donkey KOng cab. Love trying and compring different joysticks. In the end is actually a matter of personal taste.


paigeoliver

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2013, 03:35:23 pm »
Why not just get a proper Nintendo stick? They aren't hard to find.

I think I'm getting it, oh yes!! I might as well buy a Reunion stick to check which one fits better on a Donkey KOng cab. Love trying and compring different joysticks. In the end is actually a matter of personal taste.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2013, 04:12:06 pm »
Well I live in Spain, no Nintendo cabs over here....I'm sure that eventually I'll find one. I know MikesArcade used to have, not anymore though.
Last christmas I was in the USA, New York, and for the first time I played in a real Donkey Kong original cabinet.
Loved it! Even thought the joystick felt a bit loose....I guess it is because is more than 20 years old....hehe...

deadmoney5

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2013, 01:25:00 pm »
Although I love the reunion stick, and use it in my cab, it is a much more stiff joystick than I remember when playing in the arcades.  I might have to try this new one out..especially since it will fit exactly like the reunion.

yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2013, 02:36:10 pm »
Although I love the reunion stick, and use it in my cab, it is a much more stiff joystick than I remember when playing in the arcades.  I might have to try this new one out..especially since it will fit exactly like the reunion.

Yes, I agree. The best thing about this joystick are the leafs. I'd love to see if someone could make a rubber grommet for these things.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2013, 03:25:43 pm »
Why even bother designing such a niche product just to use a spring?

 :banghead:


yotsuya

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2013, 03:27:20 pm »
Why even bother designing such a niche product just to use a spring?

 :banghead:

This stick with leafs and a spring is better than any other 4-way solution out there.
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RandyT

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2013, 04:06:32 pm »
Why even bother designing such a niche product just to use a spring?

I'm not sure why you think it's a niche product.  A grommet, and the associated extra parts, would add considerably to the price tag.  Surely a man as thrifty as yourself can see the value in a higher performing, lower cost (relative to a grommet version) alternative, which bolts up to a standard mounting pattern. ;)

deadmoney5

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2013, 04:09:25 pm »
ordered.. ;D

Cynicaster

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2013, 01:05:59 pm »
Hey Randy, I might be interested in ordering.  Can you help me out with my earlier question?  Thanks...

Quote
What is the maximum control panel thickness on which this stick would be workable?

And those Versa-Ball things… am I understanding correctly—do they basically provide stick length adjustment by means of various selectable e-clip grooves?
 

RandyT

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2013, 06:32:23 pm »
What is the maximum control panel thickness on which this stick would be workable?

And those Versa-Ball things… am I understanding correctly—do they basically provide stick length adjustment by means of various selectable e-clip grooves?

The first one depends a lot on what you are willing or able to do.  The optimal installation is on a metal panel with studs or carriage bolts.  But really, any thickness panel can be used if top mounted with an overlay.

And yes, the VersBall2 shafts will make the shaft longer.  There are two settings for length.  However, longer shafts will reduce how precise the stick feels (longer shafts equal longer throws) so this needs to be weighed carefully for optimal performance of any stick.  With an 8-way, adjustments can be made to account for this without major disadvantage, but a 4-way has a fixed sized restrictor.  Everything is tuned to this, so any adjustments made to decrease throw before actuation, will likely result in enabling areas where diagonals are possible.

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2013, 11:46:42 am »
What is the maximum control panel thickness on which this stick would be workable?

And those Versa-Ball things… am I understanding correctly—do they basically provide stick length adjustment by means of various selectable e-clip grooves?

The first one depends a lot on what you are willing or able to do.  The optimal installation is on a metal panel with studs or carriage bolts.  But really, any thickness panel can be used if top mounted with an overlay.

And yes, the VersBall2 shafts will make the shaft longer.  There are two settings for length.  However, longer shafts will reduce how precise the stick feels (longer shafts equal longer throws) so this needs to be weighed carefully for optimal performance of any stick.  With an 8-way, adjustments can be made to account for this without major disadvantage, but a 4-way has a fixed sized restrictor.  Everything is tuned to this, so any adjustments made to decrease throw before actuation, will likely result in enabling areas where diagonals are possible.

Thanks.

As I expected, it sounds like there will be no way around using a mounting plate if I want the true experience.  Do you sell one that works with the Pac-Pro, or would I need to fabricate it? 

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Re: New Product: Pac-Pro™ Leaf-Switch 4-way Joystick
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2013, 05:10:06 pm »
Anyone able to comment on activation force?  Also would I be able to install a weaker spring if desired?