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| rCadeGaming:
--- Quote from: fleskebacon on September 16, 2013, 07:15:01 pm ---both the PCB and everything else was soaked in lube when I got them --- End quote --- Aaaaah. That's kind of a red flag. Maybe it got stored somewhere hot between the factory and your house, and the lube that's just supposed to be around the shaft got warm and melted into everything. --- Quote from: fleskebacon on September 16, 2013, 07:15:01 pm ---I suppose the switches are supposed to work dry and don't require any lubrication at all? --- End quote --- Yeah it would probably be best if they're bone dry inside. Contact cleaner sometimes leaves a beneficial residue that prevents corrosion and such, but other than that you don't want anything in there. I was talking about lubing the moving parts around the shaft, especially the white nylon hemispherical pivot thing. These sticks last a lot longer if properly lubed in the right places. If left dry, you'll find plastic dust indicating heavy wear. --- Quote from: ahofle on September 17, 2013, 12:08:14 am ---I have had this problem with Happ Supers + iPAC4 for quite a while and it is indeed bounce. --- End quote --- Contact bounce is an almost unavoidable reality with any kind of mechanical switch. A lot of hardware and software have some kind of signal debouncing built in though. Aholfe, what software are you noticing this with? I'm thinking of switching to an I-PAC4, and you guys are getting me worried that they're especially sensitive to contact bounce. Also, I'd guess that you'd get best results with something specifically designed for cleaning contacts, not just a general electronics cleaner. Not saying that your CRC stuff doesn't fit this, just that I don't know. I'd check the intended use on the can. |
| ahofle:
--- Quote from: rCadeGaming on September 17, 2013, 10:35:45 am --- --- Quote from: ahofle on September 17, 2013, 12:08:14 am ---I have had this problem with Happ Supers + iPAC4 for quite a while and it is indeed bounce. --- End quote --- Contact bounce is an almost unavoidable reality with any kind of mechanical switch. A lot of hardware and software have some kind of debouncing built in though. Aholfe, what software are you noticing this with? I'm thinking of switching to an I-PAC4, and you guys are getting me worried that they're especially sensitive to contact bounce. Also, I'd guess that you'd get best results with something specifically designed for cleaning contacts, not just a general electronics cleaner. Not saying that your CRC stuff doesn't fit this, just that I don't know. I'd check the intended use on the can. --- End quote --- Like the OP, I see the issue with pretty much all software -- can even duplicate it in notepad. |
| rCadeGaming:
Even MAME? I would expect it to show up more in something like notepad or a front-end, but something like Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo ought to have pretty good signal debouncing built into its code, shouldn't it? It's possible that the I-PAC is sensitive to contact bouncing. On their webpage it says it uses a "state method for key debouncing" which sounds like watching consecutive states in software to check for consistency. I need to do more research... Here is a great source that I found: http://www.eng.utah.edu/~cs5780/debouncing.pdf |
| ahofle:
Yeah I emailed back and forth with Andy from Ultimarc and he said there is debouncing logic, but it's difficult to make it perfect. My IPAC is really old (like 2002-2003 timeframe) so I was hoping newer ones would work much better, but it sounds like there are still issues. I do see the same in game, although it's not as noticeable in most circumstances. Entering initials as the OP stated is when you can really see it happen. |
| fleskebacon:
Yep, entering initials and navigating the MAME and frontend menus are where you really see it. I've had no issues while actually playing a game, but that might be because of the nature of the games I play - they rarely depend upon short taps. It also replicated in Notepad, and the I-Pac software when I looked closer. The stick is now still behaving properly after the electronic cleaner job. :) When I did get double taps, it mostly happened when i held the joystick like 1/4 of a second and then let go. If I tapped it really fast or held it for a little while and then let go, it generally didn't happen. Could this be because there is a weakness in the debouncing software in the I-Pac? The switches are Omron, which is supposed to be a quality brand, so I'm having a hard time believing that they alone can cause all this? Btw, really good article on bouncing, I wasn't aware that this was such a big topic. :) |
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