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| Curved vs Straight button layout.....let's settle this with a poll. |
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| CoryBee:
--- Quote from: Unstupid on August 20, 2013, 02:24:43 pm --- --- Quote from: Dawgz Rule on August 19, 2013, 01:22:19 pm --- --- Quote --- The argument is that your fingers naturally form a curve. However... thats Only when they are flat on the table. When you play a game, or even type on your keyboard... your fingers bend at the kunckles, and pretty much even out the distances... forming a perfectly comfortable straight line. Which is the reason why 95% of computer uses.. use standard straight keyboard layouts. --- End quote --- There is absolutely no truth to your keyboard analogy. The simple truth is that modern keyboards are simply a carryover from the typewriter. When I place my hand in a comfortable format for gaming, there seems to be a natural curve. It definitely does not form a "perfectly comfortable straight line". --- End quote --- Very True. Also consider that keyboard keys are only appx .75" apart while the spacing on arcade buttons is appx twice that, and as you spread your fingers apart they revert back into a curved arc. Try placing 4 fingers on letters H,J,K,L... Easy right? Now place the same four fingers on D,G,J,L... Not so easy eh? Now try D,T,U,L... Which is more comfortable? --- End quote --- I like you. |
| Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---It definitely does not form a "perfectly comfortable straight line". --- End quote --- And are you using Flat / Convex buttons... or are they Concave? Its FAR more comfortable pressing a Concave button with a Vertical downstroke, rather than with a flat hand !!! That COMPLETELY eliminates the very REASON why there is a 'finger cradling depression'. In using a button this way.. your going to be constantly pressing your fingers into a hard pointed edge. And how exactly is that more comfortable?! Not only that... but the very use of flat or convex buttons is non ergonomic, and far more fatiguing on the fingers. 1) With the hand flat, the fingers not having a bend at the knuckle to provide the spring-force, you lose: a) mechanical advantage b) You lose press power c) You lose reaction time d) You lose dexterity and fast accurate presses (try drumroll type exercises spanning 3 keys) e) You will fatigue much quicker, because of these losses 2) Please show me, and or design a keyboard that fits everyones flat laid out hand. (good luck!) And then, have them type on it to get the most words per minute.. and do fatigue tests. Ohh wait.. none exist.. and thats for good reason... reasons listed above, and more. (hint: you cant design such a thing, cause everyones hand shape & finger lengths are different... thus, one more reason why flat handed buttons setups are POOR for human ergonomics, and thus especially bad for accurate gameplay! HOWEVER... a vertically pressed button setup... can be adapted to ANY size hand or finger length) --- Quote ---asking a serious SF2 player to play against you with your custom, curved buttons is borderline rude. Might as well hand a rapier to a samurai, then ask him to duel you. --- End quote --- I completely agree! :applaud: --- Quote ---as you spread your fingers apart they revert back into a curved arc. --- End quote --- That depends on IF you chose to let the middle finger drop down, or keep it vertically bent at the knuckle. I feel most people would prefer to keep the power of that digit for downward force, response speed, less fatigue and accuracy. By placing your fingers on S, D & F.. keep the middle finger on D, and just move the two outside fingers one key over to a & g. Note, that you dont have to lose the Bend in your middle finger.. and even the side fingers still remain about the same height. A mm at most in my test. The only real change, is that they roll over slightly on an axis. Therefore, the downforce and leverage, is pretty much the same. --- Quote --- Try placing 4 fingers on letters H,J,K,L... Easy right? Now place the same four fingers on D,G,J,L... Not so easy eh? Now try D,T,U,L... Which is more comfortable? --- End quote --- WHY would you place 4 buttons in a straight line, and expect them to be all hit at the same time? The 6 button layout, is for SF style fighting games. Spanning 3 arcade buttons is easy for most, especially in that you dont do it repeatedly like a machinegun. If this were that difficult to do.. then nobody could play a simple chord on a keyboard. As for 4 buttons at once... most of those games are laid out in a Tekken 2x2 array. And games like Samuri Showdown, could very well be played the same way. However, in the event that you want to play SS with a straight layout.. add that 7th button at a slight drop, as seen pretty much all over the place here... which allows the pinky to use the last button effectively. (being that, unlike the cm size difference of the middle and side fingers... the pinky is about 2x that, a full inch in height difference) |
| Dawgz Rule:
--- Quote ---Its FAR more comfortable pressing a Concave button with a Vertical downstroke, rather than with a flat hand !!! --- End quote --- Umm....who said anything about a flat hand? |
| Malenko:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 18, 2013, 09:56:12 am --- The 6button layout was designed for Streetfighter II. It used 2 rows of 3 buttons, with each button being so close that the button edges are nearly touching. Being able to hit all 3 of either the top or bottom set, was key in its usage. Later the Neo Geo came out... and the button setup was probably designed for one of its upcoming games "Samuri Showdown" ,which required 4 buttons to be bashed at once. Which is the reason why 95% of computer uses.. use standard straight keyboard layouts. Many keyboard Buttons also have a slight concave curve.. for the same reasons.. to allow the user to feel where to put his fingers.. and to keep from accidentally slipping off, and losing track of position. --- End quote --- Other than Zangief's "Spinning Lariat" , no moves required more than 1 button to be pressed at a time (this changed after SFIICE and more fighters needed 3 buttons pressed) Other than Galford and Hanzo's "ninja vanish" move that requires BCD, no move requires more than 2 buttons (typically AB or CD). No moves require all 4. Citation needed on 95% of straight keyboards. All the law firms my company does tech support for, their secretaries all use "ergonomic" keyboards. I personally cant use them but I'm sure their market share is more than 5 percent. Dell, who supplies hardware to a significant number of companies manufacture their keyboards with concave keys. Also, typically the home keys (F and J) have a raise on them so users dont lose their place on the keyboard. I totally agree with you on the poll thing though, its pointless. Just make a cardboard mock up and see which you prefer. |
| BadMouth:
Where the polling is concerned, there is a danger on the internet of one guys tutorial becoming the standard because of people following it instead of risking failure by trying something else. Maximus' TV tube to x/y monitor conversion had me thinking about this. The guy who wrote the tutorial just happened across a model of television with a tube that had a nearly identical model number to the tube on the x/y monitor. Since then, everyone who has ever done it has used that same model TV. Who knows how many other models might work? There might be a more common model that works. There might be years of production runs from a certain manufacturer in various sizes that the x/y yoke would fit. We'll never know because nobody bothers trying it with any other model than the one in the tutorial. While a poll isn't one guy's tutorial, there is still a danger of it becoming "the standard" which isn't necessarily the best solution. The next poll will be more overwhelmingly for curved, because the people who looked at this one went along with it. |
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