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| Continuation of HAZE and ark-adr's legal conversation re: MAME, etc. |
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| ark_ader:
--- Quote from: Vigo on August 09, 2013, 11:54:28 am --- --- Quote from: ark_ader on August 09, 2013, 11:05:58 am ---Let us cut to the chase. I'm all for preservation and it is needed for all those arcade games from 1970-1985. --- End quote --- You keep bringing up the fact that you think that games from 1998 or so should not be included because they are too new. What measure are you exactly using to determine what is acceptable to preserve and what is not? As far as I can tell, many of these games are still quite often obscure and still live with the threat of being lost in the near future. I think you are not looking at the big picture, here. Also, can you say for certain what the climate will be like in 10 years? From haze's blog, the latest find is a 94 game called Cassanova. I never heard of it, and it seems like it is a completely obscure title. From your measure of 1985 as the latest current acceptable date, (28 years), The MameDev team would have to wait until the year 2022 to procure and preserve this title. Can you say for certain this title will be available to find 10 years from now? If you can make a strong case that these titles are all living a safe, unthreatened existance, I might agree with you, but all the games he has been covering on his blog recently are pretty darn old or rare sounding to me. --- End quote --- I gave that as an example. Yes they are rare, but there is no reason for a rare software to become free. Windows 2.0 is rare, it is not free. Windows NT4 is old and retired but is it free to download off Microsoft's site? Windows 3.0? You have to source it and buy it. That link I gave shows that game board for sale on ebay, and there is a dedicated cabinet too. Now those sellers will be out of pocket due to Haze's poking around. Is that fair? There are many sides to this coin. Plenty of them are lurking in this forum. I admire those with arcades in their basements as they represent the true collector. Does anyone one know what a supergun is? |
| Haze:
--- Quote from: Vigo on August 09, 2013, 11:54:28 am --- --- Quote from: ark_ader on August 09, 2013, 11:05:58 am ---Let us cut to the chase. I'm all for preservation and it is needed for all those arcade games from 1970-1985. --- End quote --- You keep bringing up the fact that you think that games from 1998 or so should not be included because they are too new. What measure are you exactly using to determine what is acceptable to preserve and what is not? As far as I can tell, many of these games are still quite often obscure and still live with the threat of being lost in the near future. I think you are not looking at the big picture, here. Also, can you say for certain what the climate will be like in 10 years? From haze's blog, the latest find is a 94 game called Cassanova. I never heard of it, and it seems like it is a completely obscure title. From your measure of 1985 as the latest current acceptable date, (28 years), The MameDev team would have to wait until the year 2022 to procure and preserve this title. Can you say for certain this title will be available to find 10 years from now? If you can make a strong case that these titles are all living a safe, unthreatened existance, I might agree with you, but all the games he has been covering on his blog recently are pretty darn old or rare sounding to me. --- End quote --- Yep, like I said, guy is living in some bubble fantasy land. He keeps asking questions that have already been answered, again, we work on things in an unbiased and impartial way. We aim to provide enough information about how things work that somebody could write their own software to run on the hardware we've documented, as new limits of hardware get discovered they get implemented, that is documented in the code we release. The fact he can't see (read, chooses not to see) this tells you plenty. An obsession with schematics? For anything newer than Pong they're not going to tell you a great deal about how things work if you want to write software for the board. I'm starting to think he *is* driverman, just with a different proxy / vpn. His approach is identical, subjects very similar, trolling a carbon copy, only differing in the style of writing. He seems to continue to want to draw some type of conclusion that MAME existing justifies xx-in-1 boards somehow (another driverman topic..) or that by MAME emulating them it justifies them (guess what, another driverman topic) It will remain a completely absurd argument because MAME is a project of great historical, cultural and technical value. A company selling bootleg boards is not. |
| ark_ader:
--- Quote from: Haze on August 09, 2013, 12:16:49 pm --- --- Quote from: Vigo on August 09, 2013, 11:54:28 am --- --- Quote from: ark_ader on August 09, 2013, 11:05:58 am ---Let us cut to the chase. I'm all for preservation and it is needed for all those arcade games from 1970-1985. --- End quote --- You keep bringing up the fact that you think that games from 1998 or so should not be included because they are too new. What measure are you exactly using to determine what is acceptable to preserve and what is not? As far as I can tell, many of these games are still quite often obscure and still live with the threat of being lost in the near future. I think you are not looking at the big picture, here. Also, can you say for certain what the climate will be like in 10 years? From haze's blog, the latest find is a 94 game called Cassanova. I never heard of it, and it seems like it is a completely obscure title. From your measure of 1985 as the latest current acceptable date, (28 years), The MameDev team would have to wait until the year 2022 to procure and preserve this title. Can you say for certain this title will be available to find 10 years from now? If you can make a strong case that these titles are all living a safe, unthreatened existance, I might agree with you, but all the games he has been covering on his blog recently are pretty darn old or rare sounding to me. --- End quote --- Yep, like I said, guy is living in some bubble fantasy land. He keeps asking questions that have already been answered, again, we work on things in an unbiased and impartial way. We aim to provide enough information about how things work that somebody could write their own software to run on the hardware we've documented, as new limits of hardware get discovered they get implemented, that is documented in the code we release. The fact he can't see (read, chooses not to see) this tells you plenty. An obsession with schematics? For anything newer than Pong they're not going to tell you a great deal about how things work if you want to write software for the board. I'm starting to think he *is* driverman, just with a different proxy / vpn. His approach is identical, subjects very similar, trolling a carbon copy, only differing in the style of writing. He seems to continue to want to draw some type of conclusion that MAME existing justifies xx-in-1 boards somehow (another driverman topic..) or that by MAME emulating them it justifies them (guess what, another driverman topic) It will remain a completely absurd argument because MAME is a project of great historical, cultural and technical value. A company selling bootleg boards is not. --- End quote --- For someone who is ignoring me, you are doing a pretty good job. :laugh2: You need to remind everyone here why you were ousted out of your coordinator position. ::) Your spin is amazing sir. :applaud: You need one of these when a suit give you a C&D: p.s. I mean that in a nice and kind way. |
| Haze:
Back to trolling eh? (did you ever stop?) not even with the correct facts. I have never been ousted from the co-ordinator position. I handed the project to Aaron to concentrate on actually emulating things because I felt that had more worth to the project. I continue to feel that way (I fail to see how things like the recent addition of a web-server in MAME so that you can connect to MAME via a browser and see what is running / control certain aspects of it remotely has any value at all) I was removed from the team at one point because a certain dev got pissy about having their code reverted, when their code was wrong, but now I think a fair number of people have come to realise I was correct in my actions, but that's all internal politics. If you want to know who has continued to contribute throughout and actually helped improve the emulation significantly over the last few years then look no further. That's all anicent history too, Aaron has since handed to project to Angelo so that he too could concentrate on other things, and Angelo subsequently handed it to Micko, the MESS co-ordinator for similar reasons, and because having two heads of what was basically the same project didn't really make sense. I continue to have some differences of opinion on the way MAME should be heading, but remain an active member of the team, and one of the few members actually still putting a lot of work into directly improving our arcade emulation side of things (even if it probably doesn't help my cause when it comes to showing that the core and non-arcade stuff is our driving force these days) You do make yourself look like an idiot. Again none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand tho. saint, please just ban this guy, trolls are not constructive or helpful members of your community here. |
| ark_ader:
But they haven't handed it back to you. Why is that exactly? A particular web site we know of had a policy where the very mention of your name was an immediate ban Sure sounded familiar when you rudely interrupted our thread and threatened everyone. Darn it! Now I have sunk to his childish methods...forgive me. I should know better.... :lol Oh was there a question related to this thread somewhere? |
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