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Continuation of HAZE and ark-adr's legal conversation re: MAME, etc.
Haze:
because MAME isn't meant to replace such things and using the proper hardware.
we provide a reference, we stay neutral, we stay independent.
nobody can make a MAME system then try to say that we authorized it when they don't bother to license things properly.
there are simply absolutely no benefits to allowing commercial use, and if you say code contributions back then I can't agree, most commercial software and packs is simply hacked for specific targets and in ways to make it more appealing rather than authentically emulated.
we've been doing this for almost 17 years, outlived basically everything else, seen drastic changes in the way things get done (MAME *sets* the bar for the quality of ports these days) and made a real difference. I'd say our approach worked just fine in that sense.
If MAME becomes a legal option for companies to use directly then every company will use it directly, for the end user that is bad, everything just becomes a clone of MAME, has the same bugs as MAME, the same performance as MAME etc. The poor quality products out there are typically the ones that do already disregard our license and rip the code directly because they're hacked together by people who don't have the first clue what they're doing with our code. The good quality ones are the ones where people have taken the care and attention, used our findings but produced their own product, better optimized and more suitable for the environments they target. At the end of the day if we approve MAME for commercial use no company is going to fund creation of anything beyond the bare minimum of 'use MAME' and that is bad for you.
Sure, doing something like that would officially put our names in lights, but we're not doing this for fame or fortune.
This conversation has been had before, I'm not going to budge on the issue.
DGP:
Right or wrong, :angel: or >:D , I have nothing but respect for what you do Haze.
Please allow me to say... Thank You.
:cheers:
Jason
ark_ader:
I will do my upmost not to sound rude or dismissive of your skills and accomplishments Haze, but you have answered one of my questions, and unfortunately created two more.
Thanks Le Chuck for the Barracks Lawyer remark. You are absolutely spot on there.
Lets review some quotes:
--- Quote ---The Dumping Union are a separate entity and a lot of what I work with is from individual contributors too, providing a service to them by emulating what they have.
--- End quote ---
It doesn't sound like that on this page. It sounds like you got the dump by TDU and was given it from another contributor, which answers one of my important questions. Mame roms are distributed internally, not from a controlled repository. It does sound rather blatant, when it comes to securing copyright material. Where does this dump data go afterwards? You applaud the Daphne Devs for locking their content (that is still commercially viable) but there is no locking mechanisms in Mame? Why?
--- Quote ---This isn't the role of Mamedev, nothing would get done and trying to work within such constraints would be reckless and irresponsible when it comes to actually caring about the past and actually ensuring nothing becomes inaccessible.
--- End quote ---
Yes this is very accurate of Haze. Look at this screen shot from his site:
This game is dated 1998, not 1980 or 1984 when the video game industry imploded. No this is from a Korean company who is trying to make money on a fledgling arcade market. What does the copyright notice say? Is it heeded? Is it still valid? Contacted any Owners?
--- Quote ---You can't possibly compare this to people making bootleg boards in order to rip people off and make a quick profit, it's an absurd argument hence why I can't be bothered arguing when that is the context.
--- End quote ---
OK yet you have support in Mame for the bootlegs of the day. There is some issues there. But Mame did support a Xn1 board. Why? If the clan is so against the notion?
--- Quote from: DGP on August 08, 2013, 08:24:13 pm ---
I totally agree!
I am not practising, the family member that I was talking about (copyright/patent) did read the thread(s) after I sent him the links to get his input and that was basically his response (in fewer words). He stated if the property holders so much as blinked that this would be an instant win for them (which I think we all know would be the obvious outcome). ;)
:cheers:
--- End quote ---
Well there is no real money in Mame, and taking it out would be a PR disaster. It would stop you guys going rampant with assimilating new games that are not in danger of being lost to the ether. Mamedevs would be restricted to the existing collection of games. The work of Mamedevs was not created from day one. Work from the other emulators of the day was included into Mame, so you cannot pat yourself on the back for all the accomplishment. We all remember Sparcade?
I have a busy day ahead of me so I will leave you with this new console game due out on one of the most successful video games of all time. I do believe Disney holds the character copyright, as does Hasbro for the original arcade game.
Its dire.
But if the original 1980 game was available to purchase, would anyone buy it?
Yes I know about the other pacman related games. I'm taking about the original game for the younger generation that revenue could be made from.
jdbailey1206:
--- Quote from: DGP on August 08, 2013, 06:19:59 pm ---...If the :censored: were to hit the fan here (legally) then the devs and distributors are the first target and not the millions that are using what they have created, ....
--- End quote ---
I agree to this. Though I would like MAME more to Napster. Both programs respectively by themselves cause on harm. But once you put ROMS or songs in them and utilize them with their intended use then you start to run into legal problems. The funny thing is those who get the legal action brought on them is not the end user who is using the program but the person who actually created it. When it should be the other way around. Those who are bringing legal action don't realize that this beast is like the Hydra. Cut off it's head and two more appear.
The whole reason I believe no legal action has been taken is because it's not worth the hassle. By the time you bring action against those who are using ROMS the cost begins to outway the benefits. In the end the ROMS that are being used just aren't worth it. That is why you always hear about people getting nuked for movie or music piracy. Those will retain there value. Unfortunately games do not.
As for the 60 in 1's I did not realize that they were being put out by those over seas who had no part of creating the games. But again unfortunately there is no real international law that would help in stopping the distribution of those boards to the United States.
That being said I believe that discussions like these should not be hallmarked as something bad for the community. They can sometimes get heated but that is a debate. There is a saying that everyone can learn something new everyday. And that is what I feel these dicussions can do. Yes they sometimes get winded but if some form of valuable information is taken away from it all the better. I believe someone said earlier in the discussion that you can lead a horse to a library but you can't make him read. And thats the truth. I don't think anyone should get mad at the opposition but be glad that you may have taught something to someone.
And to Monkeyvoodoo I believe Le Chuck was going for something more like this. But somehow Morgan Freeman always wins over everybody. :cheers:
Also since you were brought up Le Chuck sometimes it's okay to wear a dust mask or sand where there is plenty of ventilation. Laying off the bottle might be a good thing too. ;D
In the end I hope that Robedias27 finds an avenue he can go down to solve his problem. Because this shouldn't be about who in the end is right or wrong but it should be about the fact that he donated to a worthy cause and maybe made someones day a little brighter and showed them how it used to be with games. Because in the end that is why we are all here. To keep the memories alive.
Oh crap. Can someone recommend a good lawyer? I feel NBC coming after me for using that one. ;D
jdbailey1206:
--- Quote from: Le Chuck on August 08, 2013, 08:13:00 pm ---...I would generally advise against her providing tactical advice on, say, mounted operations in urban terrain under the cover of darkness....
--- End quote ---
Le Chuck? How do you think kids are made? Sex joke.
:lol