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Let's make a "Well-Designed Cabinet Guide"
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Xiaou2:
 I also dont like the Tone of this already:

 
--- Quote --- SHOULD I make a 4player?
 Do I NEED special controllers?
--- End quote ---


 Thats pretty much pounding out YOUR opinion down from the outset.   :soapbox:


 When it should be something like:

 1) How many players do you want?

   a)  2 player layouts
       
      - blah blah info
      - blah blah info

   b)  4 Player layouts

     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info

Vigo:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 01, 2013, 04:41:45 am --- I also dont like the Tone of this already:

--- End quote ---

Tone? There is no tone. Nothing is written yet. I was jotting down and pasting quotes from other posts. I did it in about 1 minute. The only tone I noticed so far was you barging in here to crap all over some constructive thinking.


--- Quote --- But Opinion shouldnt be biased.  Thats like a Karate instructor preaching how everyone should study Karate.  Or how a Priest would tell you that you should give 90% of your wealth to the church.   Its up to the Person reading to get unbiased information, and decide what his or her Priorities are, and then accept the kinds of challenges that will result from those decisions.
--- End quote ---

That makes no sense, opinions ARE biases. People come to BYOAC asking for opinions all the time. This guide is meant to give a variety of different opinions from different viewpoints so it is not telling people what to do from one point of view. It is a compilation of opinions that are backed by experience. I am going to tell you right now that every point covered in this guide will have at least two differing points of view or it won't be included. You can feel free to add your point of view to it as well, if you will try to offer up well thought out, positive and persuasive statement to your opinion.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 01, 2013, 04:24:08 am --- What you are essentially trying to do, is write another book... and  Or 'fix'  /  'update'   saints outdated information on the site.

--- End quote ---

No, I am trying to cover things that in essence can't be covered in the book. The book wonderfully lays out all your options, and yes it walks you through a build and gives some great example projects. Outside of that realm, there are new builders seeing options, but not knowing why they would want to go with one or the other simply because they have not gone down the path before. Hearing a variety of opinions and solutions to a design choice it a great way for a lot of people to educate themselves and learn. This sort of thing is in the threads day in and day out and there is a reason people keep asking these opinions from veteran members.

To put it in light of an example of a simple thing like wood choice. I bring this topic up because I debated over wood choice for a weeks before my first build. Saint's book will tell you your choices of wood and everything you need to read to grasp all the facts. It will tell you the pros and cons of MDF or plywood and every other viable wood option. Instead with this guide, a reader can hear a statement from Le Chuck as to why he prefers to use MDF, and at the same time hear from Kahlid as to why he loves working with plywood, etc and so on. A reader can find an opinion they can relate to and make an easier choice. A person who never build a cab is not always going to know exactly how to weigh the facts without some personal reference in there.



--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 01, 2013, 04:41:45 am ---  When it should be something like:

 1) How many players do you want?

   a)  2 player layouts
       
      - blah blah info
      - blah blah info

   b)  4 Player layouts

     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info

--- End quote ---

No, that is not how it should be, what you are doing there is laying out facts and info on the various options. That is exactly what the book does. I think it is ironic that you bash this effort because you think it is duplicating the book, but then tell me you don't like the tone because it is not like the book.  ::)



--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 01, 2013, 04:24:08 am ---Control panels that have multiple controls can be elegant, functional, and fun.  And they can simply be fun.. and look like hell.. but usually the user who built them doesnt care about that now do they?  Its the outside viewers who seem to be at arms with that.   

--- End quote ---

If they didn't care about their design, then they wouldn't be reading a design guide, would they.....  This guide will not offend those who don't care about design.


Listen, I explained what this project is and am reassuring you that it is specifically designed to NOT pound an opinion on people because it will always feature different opinions. Hopefully you will be willing to openly add to this project rather than try to tear it down.
Xiaou2:

--- Quote ---Tone? There is no tone. Nothing is written yet. I was jotting down and pasting quotes from other posts.
--- End quote ---

 If I say:   "Do I Really need special controllers?"

     that can be read as: 

 "its not really standard practice, and its only a fringe thing that most of us dont agree with"

      English is like that.  The way in which you word things can change the meaning a lot..  as you can infer different attitudes and ideas from the WAY in which things are said / words arranged.

 If I instead said:

      What kinds of Controllers will I need?   or   What kinds of controllers are there?

 It no longer is aimed at any specific initial opinion or bias.  The reader will look at the list of controllers, see which games used what + why...  see the Pros and Cons of each controller in great detail..  such as mounting depths, control panel space, and multipurpose use.. as well as Cost, to see if its even possible to budget it.


--- Quote ---barging in here to crap all over some constructive thinking
--- End quote ---

 What?!  I AM being constructive.   You are the one taking offense somehow, probably because of the english misunderstandings.


--- Quote ---That makes no sense, opinions ARE biases.
--- End quote ---

 What I meant, was that the initial questions / topics.. should not be biased from the start.  I LIKE and AGREE that multiple opinions should be added.


--- Quote ---Instead with this guide, a reader can hear a statement from Le Chuck as to why he prefers to use MDF, and at the same time hear from Kahlid as to why he loves working with plywood, etc and so on. A reader can find an opinion they can relate to and make an easier choice. A person who never build a cab is not always going to know exactly how to weigh the facts without some personal reference in there.
--- End quote ---

 What I meant, was by looking at your Massive topic list..  it would basically be like trying to update the entire site.

   I think you need both factual data with opinions.. because either without or.. and theres confusion and misinterpretation.
Ive not read Saints book, because Ive not needed it, so I cant comment about his style of writing. Possibly he had to trim data, so keep the book within a certain page spec.

 I think its very difficult to simply pick and pull some limited opinions together, without the supporting data.  For example, if nobody knows what a leaf switch is..  then how will they know whether to choose that over micros?   What you get down to that level.. its basically re-writing every aspect of the site.   As by now... theres so many new vendor options, let alone the real controllers.  It could be very confusing to someone new to all of these controllers.


--- Quote ---I think it is ironic that you bash this effort because you think it is duplicating the book,
--- End quote ---

Never said nor inferred that at all.  Nor was I bashing anything.  I was stating that I didnt care for the initial tone, as stated above.   And, I have nothing against anyone updating info or writing a book.  Thats their business.  And its pretty standard practice actually.


--- Quote ---No, that is not how it should be,
--- End quote ---

 The 'blah blahs', were meant to symbolize both technical data, AND forum Opinions.  The only change, was to the way in which the initial information was inferred.

 Now that I think it,  I think what you are going for is some sort of glorified quick FAQ.
At least... thats the way you are making it sound now.   Just that IMO, I dont think design it so simple as to be a few Faq lines.

 
--- Quote ---If they didn't care about their design
--- End quote ---

 Umm, Where did I say they didnt care about their Designs???

 I said, that SOME people prefer good CONTROL, over LOOKS.  Design isnt merely about Looks.  Design has elements in every aspect, from:  mechanics, functionality, comfort, artistry, structural integrity, ease of use, Safety, ease of movement, space constraints, repair ease, cooling, electronics, lighting, sound, component choices, costs, and much more...


--- Quote --- rather than try to tear it down.
--- End quote ---

 Im not one to tear things down (except bad attitudes and abuses...  :P  ).  I dont make sites like crapmame.   I always offer constructive opinion and useful, and helpful information, whenever I can.  I just wanted to make sure things were starting off on the right foot, with a good solid foundation, of zero bias.   Again, it seems that this is merely an english language misunderstanding.
Vigo:
Sorry, I'm not gonna bother responding to that. I made it clear I am taking in new ideas right now, not arguing over the ideas given. I'll take note of your comments above, but ask that you don't sit and turn this thread into an argument. We can hash out details of what belongs in this later. Thanks.
jdbailey1206:

--- Quote from: Fursphere on July 31, 2013, 03:00:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: jdbailey1206 on July 31, 2013, 02:03:04 pm ---Can't we just make a Crap Mame website so people know NOT what to do?    >:D

--- End quote ---

http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/

??

--- End quote ---

Just being sarcastic my friend.   :D

And to anyone new reading this post: Vigo started this thread so we would have a clean slate.  He is trying to avoid what happened over here.
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