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Modern nominal dimension lumber v/s vintage full dimension lumber - Discuss.
Vigo:
Well, I always appreciate learning from woodworking aficionados and people in the industry such as yourself. For me, it was always the "family business" but I never followed that path so I always try to take in whatever I can. Thanks for the additional insight. :cheers:
I am really interested in seeing the direction we take with engineered/composite materials. From my own observation, it has already immensely expanded affordable flooring and decking options.
Typefighter01:
--- Quote from: TopJimmyCooks on July 11, 2013, 08:58:49 am ---Consistent grading is not a joke- the pile you were looking at was just consistently bad - or Low Grade. sounds like they were Stud grade and a bad bunk of those to boot. for your CNC table you need someone to sell you #1 or #2 Fir studs. they will be consistently straight and clear, although I would still pick the pile for especially nice ones. I see plenty of terrible lumber at consumer lumberyards, although it's gotten better while getting much more pricy.
--- End quote ---
Went out and deciphered the lumber stamps on the 2 x 4's I used and sure enough they say "stud" on them. This is what I don't understand, if I sold wood "FOR A LIVING", (it was a family owned lumber yard) I would make sure
I had a stock of #1 or #2 so when a customer specifically asks for a straight piece of lumber (price is no object my good man...give me your best) I have something to sell him. I will be completely honest with you, I have had better customer service and straighter, cleaner, cheaper lumber at Home Depot than I have ever gotten at a "Lumber Yard". The family owned lumber yards will go the way of the do-do bird unless they can offer something the big box stores can't. I understand I need to educate myself, but god man, I would hate to have seen the two cheaper options that were available when I asked (standard and utility grade I am guessing they were). It's a cliche but brick and motar stores are dying because they have nothing to offer. The staff hate their jobs, their selection blows, they are too expensive...if I could order wood through Amazon I would do it (I should check before I finish writing this post cause they pretty much sell everthing else on the planet).
TopJimmy, you obviously know what your talking about and have a care for woodworking and wood in general, but you represent only a small portion of the industry (from what I have read, it sounds like you have family or friends in the business), the rest of the industry is full of old timers with attitudes and high school girls looking for a summer paycheck :soapbox: .
Looks like Amazon.com can sell me shims, balsa wood, firewood and a box of assorted hardwoods from Rockler...just a matter of time I guess :dunno
Sorry TopJimmy I mis-read, it's Vigo with the family ties to the industry...
Howard_Casto:
Vigo basically mirrors my sentiments. In terms of structural construction there isn't any point to put it up for debate, the old stuff is just better, end of story, BUT you are going to use the new stuff because it's cheaper. The only time old stuff is used today is in exposed ceilings or beams and in really high end homes. It's purely a cost thing.
I would actually argue against inconsistent sizing as well. Old lumber is harder... it generally doesn't warp, so it's typically straighter than new stuff. Sizes don't really matter all that much, but straightness does. Also the same guy who cut the wood is probably building your house back in the day, so as long as the size is consistent for him, it isn't such a big deal.
On the other hand, unless you are getting really high grade stuff, modern lumber is usually warped straight from the hardware store, and a splash of water will warp it even further.
Mom and pop lumber stores are gone... you have Lowes, Home Depot and 84 Lumber, and they all suck.
I can remember ordering furniture grade plywood from Lowes for my pac-man cab... I made them take the stuff back.. TWICE. The first time it was terribly warped... the second it looked like somebody put it in the truck by beating it with a sledge hammer. The third it still had issues, but it was finally acceptable so I took it.
TopJimmyCooks:
--- Quote from: Typefighter01 on July 11, 2013, 06:10:08 pm ---
Went out and deciphered the lumber stamps on the 2 x 4's I used and sure enough they say "stud" on them. This is what I don't understand, if I sold wood "FOR A LIVING", (it was a family owned lumber yard) I would make sure
I had a stock of #1 or #2 so when a customer specifically asks for a straight piece of lumber (price is no object my good man...give me your best) I have something to sell him.
--- End quote ---
Truth-big boxes don't carry appearance grade 2x wood. "stud" means a structural quality where as number grading goes towards number of knots and other things that help with appearance. The reason is because for every 1 cab builder wanting #2 there are 99 yahoos that want the absolute cheapest thing. To get nice studs for a screen porch or something, you have to special order (which stinks at the big boxes) or go to the rare, family lumberyard that caters to the more exotic because they've been driven out of commodity framing lumber by the Borg.
--- Quote from: Typefighter01 on July 11, 2013, 06:10:08 pm --- . . . . The family owned lumber yards will go the way of the do-do bird unless they can offer something the big box stores can't. I understand I need to educate myself, but god man, I would hate to have seen the two cheaper options that were available when I asked (standard and utility grade I am guessing they were). It's a cliche but brick and motar stores are dying because they have nothing to offer. The staff hate their jobs, their selection blows, they are too expensive...
--- End quote ---
The local yards have pretty much been killed by the big boxes.
--- Quote from: Typefighter01 on July 11, 2013, 06:10:08 pm ---if I could order wood through Amazon I would do it (I should check before I finish writing this post cause they pretty much sell everthing else on the planet).
--- End quote ---
Too big/heavy to ship so online orders are rare. Call a local custom cabinet shop and find out who they order from. order from that company and pay by credit card. get it shipped to the shop with their regular delivery and pick it up from them. If you're cool and don't waste their time you can make friends that way.
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