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Author Topic: fooling with m2emu network  (Read 17739 times)

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SailorSat

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fooling with m2emu network
« on: July 07, 2013, 10:04:59 am »
Hi Folks :)

I've recently upgraded my 4 player setup to 8 players and had quite a nice time running daytona with 8 players (though I messed the live screen :)).

As some of you know, the m2 emulator has actually two modes of network emulation, both with some drawbacks.
  • "unsynched"
the default mode is not synched at all. while this works pretty well, it causes flickering cars in daytona, "random" time in sega rally and network errors in pretty much every other game.
 
  • "framesynched
the alternate mode is synched per frame ("framesync 1" in m2network.ini), this works more stable, but sometimes the game stops for a second or two. as a fun fact, it also hiccups on "solo" mode (linked to itself).
[/list]



So I've started tinkering with the network. I wrote a small tool to "view" the packets and tinker with em.
As it turns out, the whole buffer (8 sets of data) is sent each frame by each unit.
For playing online, this can be optimized a lot by only sending out 1 set of data

Sadly even a 1 player "framesync" setups keeps pausing now and then so my initial focus was to find out why the cars flicker in daytona, and how to get it fixed.
On the other hand, I like to fool around with stuff .)

Well... Long story, short conclusion:
I am able to "fake" an 8 player setup for the client - which is pretty nice as you can literally join the action anytime you want. (and quit if you are in attract mode)
I build some kind of "client server" system for "remote" play. Long term goal would be to link up players around the globe.


As a side effect I discovered sega rally can be played with more than 4 players - though thats more of a glitch .)
For a fact, Car 1 means MASTER, Car 2 to Car 4 mean slave. Each Car Number can be used multiple times.
First glitch - The attract mode shows some bogus sprites for 1 and 5-8 player mode.
Seconds glitch - All Cars with the same number share the same starting point - which will cause a "crash" at start and resulting in everybody getting pushed appart.
Third glitch - Timer goes apeshit right away :)

Other than those, the game itself works fine, you can drive normaly and even see all players on the map.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 12:50:43 pm »
thanks for working on m2emu network. I trust that you can fix it and play with players around the world to daytona usa and not see the cars flashing more.

thank you very much SailorSat  :notworthy: :notworthy:

SegaOutrun

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 01:02:10 pm »
sweet. keep up the good work

Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2013, 03:48:16 pm »


We can do some online testing tool in beta version?

Brian74

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 04:55:24 pm »
I'm in for some testing.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

         

isamu

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 06:32:29 pm »
Sailorbot that is VERY exciting news. Glad to see someone picking up the network emulation in Model 2 and improving it. If you get it to where we can all play Daytona and Sega from all around the world with minimal lag and a nice GUI and lobby system, there's gonna be quite a few of us Sega heads that's gonna jump on this! Keep us posted buddy!!!

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 02:32:23 am »
What I can say for now is - the flickering cars are "out of order" frames.
Just overwriting the frame numbers DOES work and fix the flicker, however we get problems with the attract mode and track selection.

Goal for now is figuring out the "header" (first 32bytes of each frame). It contains a system state, a game state, and a message group.
First thing however was/is to "patch" the emulator itself to not send "M2EM" with every packet .) don't know if the real hardware sends a head (most likely SEGA).
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 02:34:13 am by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2013, 12:24:55 pm »
Here I leave some research I did, if you can help

1) NO CARS collide. VALUE = 1       
Code: [Select]
RAMBASE+A0A10A4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) DETERMINE AMOUNT OF CARS RIVALS. VALUE = 0 TO 39     
Code: [Select]
RAMBASE+A0A3220



Table
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 12:39:41 pm by Nuexzz »

Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2013, 02:33:43 pm »
SPEED CAR (HORNET) MAY INCREASE AND DECREASE.   
Code: [Select]
RAMBASE+A1551D4

ant2

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 03:33:50 am »
Good job. Be great to play those racers online :)

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 06:26:56 am »
Nah, offline!


DAAY TOOO NAAA ;)

I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


BadMouth

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2013, 09:10:29 am »
Nah, offline!


DAAY TOOO NAAA ;)

Friggin' awesome!  :notworthy:

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2013, 05:59:54 am »
hm...
haven't found a reliable way to fix flickering yet.

however I currently read the game state and overwrite the frame number. this fixes flickering though it breaks the timer. if the counter goes too low, i simply stop overwriting the frame number, causing the cars to flicker and the timer to sync up again.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Boomslang

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2013, 08:30:30 pm »
keep it up mate! doing great work

Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2013, 06:41:40 pm »
any news about the project ?  :dunno

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2013, 07:27:57 pm »
Nothing specific.

Still don't understand why I can't renumber the packets without the game going desync.

It IS possible to trick a nineth player into the ring (read only though) which can in turn used to position the camera on several defined spots on the course.
However, I have yet to actually do that .)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Xiaou2

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2013, 01:27:02 am »
I think you have to try to think like the people who built these programs / protocols...

 For example..

 What kinds of things would you need to communicate with the other machines to make everything work?
 What kinds of things could cause problems with communications?
 What effects would happen from missed data?
 What kinds of things could you do to remedy such problems.. keeping the game functionally usable?

 I think that there is an internal timer that each game checks, and communicates with each other.  That way, even if somehow a packet was lost, lagged, or corrupted.. the system would know how to piece the information together to make things work properly.

 It would seem that if theres some sort of lag in one machine.. the others try to compensate by pausing or tossing out data.  ??   Causing the flicker frame issues.

 By changing the data, the game goes ape,  probably because the values are tied into each other.  It might be trying to reverse engineer what actually took place and fix that with a certain process.   Each time theres a communication break, its going to do Something.. because the game needs to know what things are where, to process collisions and keep accurate race positions and finish-line status.

 I would guess that if a systems link got totally busted while multiple racers were at it... after a series of missed connections, it would eventually either give up and create an error / reboot.. or would carry on and start making artificially intelligent assumptions about where things were supposed to be based on last know data... and eventually may realize it would just need to take full control as if it were a single player game.  (either having the cars auto drive at a set pace, cars coast to a stop as if the driver fell asleep, using AI to drive them competitively, or remove them completely)

 Other things to think about... is that if all the machines were turned on at different times...  wouldnt that mean that the scanline timing between all of them would possibly be different between each monitor?  As such,  trying to tie things into frames may be an issue.  Especially since even if a game isnt displaying whats happening.. things are still taking place.

 As such, precise data about  'times'  is going to be very critical, and stamped and tied into everything that is done.

 Some other things to consider...

 - They may take into consideration things like slower cpu processing, due to overheating issues. IE: clogged fans, thermal paste drying out, and or failing caps / components.  Thats common with pc based equipment.. but, not sure how much a factor it is with non pc based machines... or at least, games that are much older that probably didnt have those kinds of issues.

 - Check out other Sega (and non sega) game link protocols... (especially from that time period)  and or look up the programmers that worked on these games.. and see what other games they have dabbled in.  I think one of the guys who worked on a sega game was from the usa.. and did a lot of custom AI coding.

 - Remember that in many Sega games... game timers are different from CPU / motherboard timers.  Game-Time may be completely inaccurate to real-time seconds for example.  The clock could also conceivably speed up or slow down a bit, depending on many factors..  from problems to an actually designed feature.  While each timer may be used differently..  each is also critical in different ways to the way the programs use them.


 Im not a programmer.. as Im not good enough with the abstract thinking and complex math... but the basic foundation of programs are usually rooted in basic logic and reasoning.  The biggest hurdle for arcade games programs, may be in understanding the hardware enough to know why certain things are 'logical and reasonable'...    heh

tron84

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2013, 12:27:19 am »
I use Tungle for online play for Sega model2 & Super model3, link games.  It works like a champ. No slow downs, no hiccups, runs at full speed.
It creates a VPN and I race Daytona with my buddy, yes I do know him.  I am in South Carolina & he moved to Utah.  We have been doing this for two years now, since he moved out there.
Once the VPN is set up & Model2, it rocks.  Online play all the way, no desync's either.
Give it a try, you will love it. Who doesnt like Sega online :)

Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2013, 01:30:08 am »
I use Tungle for online play for Sega model2 & Super model3, link games.  It works like a champ. No slow downs, no hiccups, runs at full speed.
It creates a VPN and I race Daytona with my buddy, yes I do know him.  I am in South Carolina & he moved to Utah.  We have been doing this for two years now, since he moved out there.
Once the VPN is set up & Model2, it rocks.  Online play all the way, no desync's either.
Give it a try, you will love it. Who doesnt like Sega online :)

I've actually played daytona online with Tunngle and also with hamachi and found no difference.

tron84@ you are using the line tool (dev) or is beginning simply games m2network.ini settings ?

tron84

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2013, 01:58:26 am »
I use Tungle for online play for Sega model2 & Super model3, link games.  It works like a champ. No slow downs, no hiccups, runs at full speed.
It creates a VPN and I race Daytona with my buddy, yes I do know him.  I am in South Carolina & he moved to Utah.  We have been doing this for two years now, since he moved out there.
Once the VPN is set up & Model2, it rocks.  Online play all the way, no desync's either.
Give it a try, you will love it. Who doesnt like Sega online :)

I've actually played daytona online with Tunngle and also with hamachi and found no difference.

tron84@ you are using the line tool (dev) or is beginning simply games m2network.ini settings ?

I have to change the m2network cfg file: Nextip= to the persons who is hosting VPN IP address to link up.
The host is on master, other on slave and have different car/machine id's. Same region of coarse also.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 02:03:29 am by tron84 »

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2013, 05:10:08 pm »
What version of the m2 emu are you using?
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


tron84

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2013, 02:15:26 pm »
What version of the m2 emu are you using?

It is v1.0, same as other person is using. We are using same roms of coarse.

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2013, 02:45:01 pm »
Strange - 1.0 keeps flickering without framesync and hiccuping WITH framesync
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


tron84

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2013, 02:56:06 pm »
Strange - 1.0 keeps flickering without framesync and hiccuping WITH framesync

I do not have any of those problems, neither does who I race with.  I am using the emulator- multi-cpu app/exe.

here is my config file with the way it is set up.
http://www.filedropper.com/emulator
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 02:58:28 pm by tron84 »

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2013, 03:07:41 am »
I don't get it.
With that emulator.ini the game keeps flickering like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

Are you playing as MASTER or SLAVE site?
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2013, 04:43:53 am »
if you want to do some testing with Tunngle, I'll be on network called "Game Emulators" in my spare time  8)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 04:47:10 am by Nuexzz »

tron84

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2013, 02:48:42 pm »
I don't get it.
With that emulator.ini the game keeps flickering like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

Are you playing as MASTER or SLAVE site?

I just recorded a quick lap on bandicam on Daytona í93. Now recordings are not the best way to show, what is truly going on.  I donít have flickers and that.  I did not say I was a good driver either.  It runs fine on my system with no flickers.  I dont get why it would flicker on yours? Does not make sense.

video:
http://www.filedropper.com/emulatormulticpu2013-08-0313-35-33-142

Then when me & my friend play on it on Tungle we donít get desyncís.  We talk on mumble when we are racing and have always ask each other what the time was on the screen & where were the cars etc.  It always matched up.  We did a lot of mamehub stuff in the early stages, we know about some desyncís on games.
As far as set up to get going in tungle. In the m2network cfg file.  The NEXTIP=  you set yours to the other persons VIP# that tungle gives you.  They need to do the same.
In tungle once you have it set up & opened/forward port 11155 for tungle. Once you have the room going.  The person who is hosting the game, in model2 they need to be set to Master.  The other person set to slave with a different car #.  Both on same region.  Then you will be linked to race online. Set the cabinets up also.

SailorSat

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I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Boomslang

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2013, 10:03:46 pm »
me and my friend tried this a few months ago with a 1gigabit network switch and it still flickered cars etc for us

I tried the framesync=1 thing but it still wasn't perfect

and Supermodel 3 network support has not been added yet so you cannot of played online that way...
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 10:11:04 pm by Boomslang »

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2013, 04:46:38 pm »
slightly off-topic
sometimes even 8 players is not enough!

daytona @ gamescom 2013


« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 04:48:38 pm by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


isamu

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2013, 09:38:49 am »
slightly off-topic
sometimes even 8 players is not enough!

daytona @ gamescom 2013




Nice. Out of curiosity who organized this event and what was the significance of it?

BadMouth

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2013, 10:40:13 am »
More importantly, how much have you spent on steering wheels?  :lol

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2013, 04:18:14 pm »
not too much on the wheels... got most for 1Ä on ebay.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200496121708323

as for the event itself, gamescom is one of the larger european trade fairs, like the e3.
part of that is a whole building for "amusement". got a cosplay village, gokarts and other stuff here.
there usually is a retro game area too, and most of the staff happen to own loads of older stuff, and my club (for amusement only e.v.) has various pinball and video arcade stuff there.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2013, 07:48:14 am »
What I can say for now is - the flickering cars are "out of order" frames.
Just overwriting the frame numbers DOES work and fix the flicker, however we get problems with the attract mode and track selection.

Goal for now is figuring out the "header" (first 32bytes of each frame). It contains a system state, a game state, and a message group.
First thing however was/is to "patch" the emulator itself to not send "M2EM" with every packet .) don't know if the real hardware sends a head (most likely SEGA).

I found how to completely eliminate attract mode (replaced by display of "awaiting players"without running the counter, I mean freeze)

also delete the track selection screen (with buttons VR key z,x,c,, I can choose the course)

this could be useful to the patch that you did?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 07:55:26 am by Nuexzz »

Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2013, 08:51:54 am »
I found a more elegant way to change the attract mode (Panoramic mode "2 players" also works with "one") and all versions of Daytona USA, also in all modes deluxe, twin, uplight.

ops! also works in single mode. :cheers:
I think sega was decided by the two modes attract and this was "covered" with the original.






MODE SINGLE



« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 08:56:19 am by Nuexzz »

SailorSat

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2013, 10:30:14 am »
Hm... Seems interesting enough.
I currently switched focus on getting a stats tool up that shows which games are up and stats.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2013, 11:12:22 pm »
I'm a little confused. 're discarding the patch of "network" to have full monitoring of the data for each game and read and overwrite "emulator"? .

If This what you mean you can manipulate the game to 100%: such as (reverse mode for all tracks, 16 or more players online, the name of each player above the car and much more.

am I right?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 11:28:35 pm by Nuexzz »

BadMouth

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2013, 04:40:04 pm »
Skip to 14:25  :D

Gamescom 2013 Recap by Inside Sim Racing


They showed it briefly in a few other episodes related to GamesCon too.

I haven't watched Inside Sim Racing for a while because they always say things that annoy me.
The last time I quit watching, they were complaining about the sky being too blue in a game.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 04:42:51 pm by BadMouth »

Nuexzz

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Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2013, 01:20:14 pm »
Skip to 14:25  :D

Gamescom 2013 Recap by Inside Sim Racing




but hey .. the cars do not  flickering in the video!!  :-[

SailorSat

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    • For Amusement Only e.V.
Re: fooling with m2emu network
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2013, 02:10:58 am »
Sure, framesync was on :)
Either they didn't capture the occosional hiccups, or they just didn't show em .)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


  
 

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