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Author Topic: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP  (Read 1616 times)

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BadMouth

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Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« on: May 30, 2013, 10:26:19 pm »
Just an FYI, NFS The Run requires Vista or newer.  It says so on the system requirements, but I never pay attention to those.

Just downloaded 15GB and installed Origin for nuthin.

This is probably going to be more common as games move on to newer versions of DirectX.

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retrorepair

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 10:27:53 am »
To be fair I think this is one of the worst of the series. The story is just cringe worthy and the car handling just feels off.

Fursphere

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2013, 11:37:57 am »
I have an extra Vista activation key if you want it Badmouth.  (I don't think I have any Win7 keys left, but I'll check)

An honestly - if you're still using XP, you're long overdue to an upgrade.  :)  If your system can play the newer NFS games, it can easily run Vista / Win7 (and probably Win8 honestly)

Howard_Casto

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013, 12:26:59 pm »
fursphere, most of us prefer xp on a mame cab... it's all around easier to deal with than 7. 

Now if he's using it for his desktop that's another story. 

Fursphere

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2013, 12:36:19 pm »
So..  I'm a Systems Engineer by trade.  Windows is what i do (servers mostly, but desktops aren't much different to be honest)

I'd really like to hear the reasons why XP is "better" than 7 on today's hardware in your opinion.  I read stuff on the subject all the time over on the Hyperspin forums and I've just straight given up on dealing with FUD.  (fear, uncertainty, doubt).  People just don't want to move away from what they know.

My personal favorites are the guys who built a Core i7 w/ 16 GB RAM and a Nvidia SLI video card setup to run....  Windows XP.   /facepalm  (they don't realize that half the features they paid for on those fancy video cards only really work in DirectX 10 / 11.....)  (Or they drop $1500 on hardware, but won't spend $100 on an OS, so they continue to run bootleg XP)

The Vista requirement for NFS - The Run is probably due to need DirectX 10 or 11 (you can get DX10 running on XP...  but its not worth the effort in my opinion).

What hardware are you running on your MAME cabinets?  (I've got Win7 on my MAME cabinet, and Win8 on my Driving cabinet)

Are you just trying to avoid the activation requirement of Windows 7 (basically running a bootleg copy of XP)


BadMouth

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2013, 12:59:45 pm »
I have an extra Vista activation key if you want it Badmouth.  (I don't think I have any Win7 keys left, but I'll check)

An honestly - if you're still using XP, you're long overdue to an upgrade.  :)  If your system can play the newer NFS games, it can easily run Vista / Win7 (and probably Win8 honestly)

I have a fresh copy of windows 7, but I don't want to tie it to this outdated motherboard.

XP still rocks for emulator rigs in most cases, the exception being the newest version of Demul emulator which uses directx 11. 
I have Vista on my slim LCD cab for that reason, but I'm considering switching to XP because it's easier to hide.
The only game I'll lose that I care about is Metal Slug 6.....and it really isn't that different from all the others in the series.

The reason this came up is that I had enough spare parts laying around that by spending $60 on a couple more components, I was able to build a duplicate of the PC in my driving cab.  Then I restored the backup of the driving cab to it (try that with Vista or Win7!). Now I'm using that to test whether or not the games I care about would still run at full speed if networking were re-enabled and all these DRM clients installed.  So far it's doing pretty good.  I'm also trying to install some old PC games that I couldn't get running on my Win7 laptop.

I'd take that Vista key though if you're not going to use it elsewhere.
The next version of Demul is going to add Gaelco games and if they work properly, I'm going to want them on the driving cab.
I could move the Vista PC out of my slim LCD into the driving cab, then put your Vista key on this "new" PC.

I don't want to mess with all that right now.  Much easier just to copy my driving cab to this PC, get everything working while sitting at a desk, then drop a duplicate of this hard drive back in the driving cab.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2013, 01:09:33 pm »
Sorry, IT guy here you can't out-tech me.   ;)

Xp makes it difficult to use things like unsigned drivers and the parallel port, UAC constantly fights you, it's difficult to set joystick priorities ect.... I could fill this whole page with reasons.  7 is more bogged down with services, it's more difficult to hide the bootup, it usually boots much slower, really the only benefit  is running dx 11 and I can count the games that require dx 11 on my one hand.  But the most important thing is resources.  Why would you run an OS that takes up 3 times as much ram at idle when you don't have to?  Emulators need every bit of resources available to get peak performance, so there isn't any reason to needlessly fill those up.  This is even more true for pc games btw, which typically eat up the ram. 

I mean even though I prefer 7, the desktop I'm working on is permanently in test mode.  If it wasn't then it would be worthless to me. 

Who puts a SLI video card in a MAME cab?  Who buys those things in the first place?  Never pay more than 50 dollars for a video card because it'll be obsolete next month. 

I've got legit copies of xp 64bit on all my machines. 

I think you are confused as to the purpose of BM's post.  We all prefer Xp, it just reduces bloat above all else and we all run it because thus far there has been no benefit to running 7.  it was a warning that this particular game isn't xp friendly and perhaps the days of running xp without any differences might be coming to an end. 

Fursphere

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2013, 01:24:51 pm »
Ok..  I'll address this point by point.  :)  And I'm not trying to "out tech" you.  I'm just really curious about this desire to hold onto the past. 

Drivers - Is your hardware really that old?  (you can turn off the unsigned driver thing in the local policy settings)

Parallel port - What the plugging into a parallel port that you can't use something else?  Since this is all about MAME cabinets (which NFS The Run doesn't even run on a MAME cabinet...   lol), what do you need on a MAME Cabinet that uses a parallel port?

UAC - Turn it off (and turn of DEP too while you're at it)

Services - turn off what you don't need if it bugs you that much

Slower on boot.  Eh, probably - how often do you not have 10 seconds to spare?  Spend $60 on an SSD and its damn near instant if it means that much.

Resources - RAM specfically.  Win7 caches things you use in RAM, giving you the appearance that its "using" more ram than Windows XP.  That's just not accurate.  WinXP drops things once its done, so technically its slower at reloading programs that you recently closed than Win7.  If you open the Resource Monitor on Win7, you can see how much is cached vs. actually used.  And when you can get 8GB of DDR3 for $40 - is this really an argument point?  lol

Performance - Exactly how old is your hardware?  :)  Running emulators requires resources - I agree totally - so buy faster resources, not run an antiquated OS to compensate.   Newer emulators *ARE* using DX10/11 - so if you want to keep up with the times, you need to upgrade.

MAME uses DX9 right?  - I wouldn't be surprised if it jumps to DX11 in the next year or two.  its only a matter of time.


BadMouth

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 02:19:54 pm »
(replying to your previous post)

So..  I'm a Systems Engineer by trade.  Windows is what i do (servers mostly, but desktops aren't much different to be honest)

I'd really like to hear the reasons why XP is "better" than 7 on today's hardware in your opinion.  I read stuff on the subject all the time over on the Hyperspin forums and I've just straight given up on dealing with FUD.  (fear, uncertainty, doubt).  People just don't want to move away from what they know.

My personal favorites are the guys who built a Core i7 w/ 16 GB RAM and a Nvidia SLI video card setup to run....  Windows XP.   /facepalm  (they don't realize that half the features they paid for on those fancy video cards only really work in DirectX 10 / 11.....)  (Or they drop $1500 on hardware, but won't spend $100 on an OS, so they continue to run bootleg XP)

The Vista requirement for NFS - The Run is probably due to need DirectX 10 or 11 (you can get DX10 running on XP...  but its not worth the effort in my opinion).

What hardware are you running on your MAME cabinets?  (I've got Win7 on my MAME cabinet, and Win8 on my Driving cabinet)

Are you just trying to avoid the activation requirement of Windows 7 (basically running a bootleg copy of XP)

I wouldn't say it's better on today's hardware.  It wouldn't surprise me if xp drivers weren't available for some of today's hardware.

The most popular processor on this forum is probably a Pentium IV.  A lot of people get into this hobby thinking they've found a use for their outdated PC.  Little did they know much they'd end up spending in the end.  :lol 

Some benefits to XP (which you've already addressed, but I typed this before your last post):

The lack of all the user account control stuff like "permissions" and "ownership" makes it simpler to use.
I turned it off, but still had issues with it not allowing me to take control of the printer port to rotate my monitor.
I ended up moving on to USB controlled Pololu controllers, but the parallel port would have done the same thing for free.

Ability to easily hide bootup.  Instantsheller makes it....instant.
I've tried in vain to hide the vista bootup.  There is one screen that every program that claims to hide Vista fails to cover.
I actually paid someone to make me an awesome bootup video, but it is ruined by the vista bootup before it.

Like I said, I have Vista64 in my slim LCD cab.  I was lucky that it (unexpectedly) let me migrate to a newer motherboard without hassle, then I incorrectly seated some memory and fried said motherboard and had to go through the phone-in process to get it activated again.  It wasn't that bad.  I expected to be grilled and hassled about it being a system-builder copy and being tied to the mobo, but I just entered the crazy amount of numbers it asked for and it activated.  I didn't purchase it for the purpose of using in this emulator rig.  It was what I had laying around, so I used it.

I have around $250 in each of my emulator PCs.
Three of them use 3.4Ghz Athlon X3 processors, 8600GT video cards, and $40 mobos with the same chipsets.
That is the fastest processor the budget mobos I used will allow for since they're limited to 95w.  I have a fourth one with a 2.9Ghz Athlon X3, still with the same chipset and video card.  They are used in my driving cab, old emulator setup (x-arcade pedestal in front of CRT-TV), slim LCD upright, and now this extra PC I just put together .

The copy of Windows 7 I just bought is for the killer system I'd like to build.  It was on sale at Newegg for $80 and I didn't think it would go much cheaper.
That is how I build my computers, snagging one part at a time when the price is right.

Fursphere

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 02:47:19 pm »
My MAME cab is on similar hardware running Windows 7.  Core2Duo 2 ghz, 9500GT video (i think it was $40 when I bought it), cheap $40 mobo, and 2GB of ram.

I planned on doing the same thing with my driving cabinet, but after I dropped $200 on a steering wheel, and $300 on the 32" screen, something told me that a "cheap computer was the wrong approach.  As soon as I started playing the newer NFS games, I knew I was right.  So I used my Core i5 3.4 ghz, 8 GB ram, GTX 440 powerhouse system (well, it was when I built it) for the driving cabinet because I knew I needed the horse power for the newer games.

Most of MAME doesn't require much to play.  A driving cabinet - unless you're just playing the ancient driving games in MAME - requires a lot more computing power. 

It think that was really proven in Badmouths performance thread - if you want to play Ridge Racer on MAME properly, you need a beefy system.  The Pentium 4 isn't going to cut it.   

Warborg

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 06:31:31 pm »
Sorry, IT guy here you can't out-tech me.   ;)

Xp makes it difficult to use things like unsigned drivers and the parallel port, UAC constantly fights you, it's difficult to set joystick priorities ect.... I could fill this whole page with reasons.  7 is more bogged down with services, it's more difficult to hide the bootup, it usually boots much slower, really the only benefit  is running dx 11 and I can count the games that require dx 11 on my one hand.  But the most important thing is resources.  Why would you run an OS that takes up 3 times as much ram at idle when you don't have to?  Emulators need every bit of resources available to get peak performance, so there isn't any reason to needlessly fill those up.  This is even more true for pc games btw, which typically eat up the ram. 

I mean even though I prefer 7, the desktop I'm working on is permanently in test mode.  If it wasn't then it would be worthless to me. 

Who puts a SLI video card in a MAME cab?  Who buys those things in the first place?  Never pay more than 50 dollars for a video card because it'll be obsolete next month. 

I've got legit copies of xp 64bit on all my machines. 

I think you are confused as to the purpose of BM's post.  We all prefer Xp, it just reduces bloat above all else and we all run it because thus far there has been no benefit to running 7.  it was a warning that this particular game isn't xp friendly and perhaps the days of running xp without any differences might be coming to an end.

I would have to agree with Fursphere when you look at the game that this thread is about...  NFS The Run.  This isn't a game that you are going to be running on a spare parts Pentium IV emulation machine...  It's a fairly new game running Frostbite 2 that needs DX10.1/11, not an older game or something running through an emu.  I would assume that if someone were trying to run that game they are running it on more current hardware due to it's requirements, and if that's the case I would think a newer OS as well.  I'm not putting XP down, it's still running on my cabinet with some pretty old hardware in it beautifully, but I wouldn't run XP on my gaming rig with having somewhat current hardware.

So I guess my point is if your going to be trying to run more recent games I would think you'd also want to run a current OS...  XP has it's place, and that place is with hardware/software from several years ago...  :)

Howard_Casto

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 06:49:35 pm »
You would be surprised what even newer games run on.  You'll be hard pressed to find more than a couple that aren't optimized for Dx9.  Why?  Because game manufactures want to sell the game to as many people as possible, so in other words games are optimized for xp, not 7. 

Like I said, it's a resource hog.... why run it if you don't need to?

Fursphere:  I get the feeling you haven't really done a lot of emulation specific stuff from your reply.  Unsigned drivers aren't for old hardware, it's for hacked hardware.  Want to run wiimotes as a joystick?  You need ppjoy, which is an unsigned driver.  Want to use hacked xbox classic stuff?  Again unsigned drivers.  That kind of stuff is just the tip of the iceburg.  What you'll find is that there are these minor annoyances that pop up when using 7 because many emulators, hardware interfaces, ect got their start in the 9x days.  We don't run new software on our cabs... we run old stuff. 

If a pc has 7 on it, I don't downgrade or anything like that, but if it's a mame cab I more often than not build the pc from scratch, at which point I don't bother with 7... the vast majority of people are like that.   

Fursphere

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 10:09:01 pm »
I haven't emulated a lot of hardware interfaces - if that's what you mean.  I thought about getting my Wiimotes to work with my PC, but decided it wasn't worth the effort. 

This thread kind of went off track.  I'm not quite sure why you brought up "Most people run XP for their MAME cabinets" when the thread was clearly not about MAME - or running the game on a MAME cabinet.  It had nothing to do with MAME.

I guess I'm just as guilty for carrying on about it.   :)

Malenko

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 10:42:02 pm »
I think we can all agree Windows 8 is terrible for desktops  :laugh:
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Howard_Casto

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 11:44:35 pm »
I haven't emulated a lot of hardware interfaces - if that's what you mean.  I thought about getting my Wiimotes to work with my PC, but decided it wasn't worth the effort. 

This thread kind of went off track.  I'm not quite sure why you brought up "Most people run XP for their MAME cabinets" when the thread was clearly not about MAME - or running the game on a MAME cabinet.  It had nothing to do with MAME.

I guess I'm just as guilty for carrying on about it.   :)

Any emulation cabinet is about MAME, that's why I brought it up.  MAME cab is a generic term. 

Fursphere

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2013, 12:40:09 am »
But this isn't emulation.  This is running a windows game on a windows system.

Warborg

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2013, 01:25:46 am »
You would be surprised what even newer games run on.  You'll be hard pressed to find more than a couple that aren't optimized for Dx9.  Why?  Because game manufactures want to sell the game to as many people as possible, so in other words games are optimized for xp, not 7. 

Like I said, it's a resource hog.... why run it if you don't need to?

Fursphere:  I get the feeling you haven't really done a lot of emulation specific stuff from your reply.  Unsigned drivers aren't for old hardware, it's for hacked hardware.  Want to run wiimotes as a joystick?  You need ppjoy, which is an unsigned driver.  Want to use hacked xbox classic stuff?  Again unsigned drivers.  That kind of stuff is just the tip of the iceburg.  What you'll find is that there are these minor annoyances that pop up when using 7 because many emulators, hardware interfaces, ect got their start in the 9x days.  We don't run new software on our cabs... we run old stuff. 

If a pc has 7 on it, I don't downgrade or anything like that, but if it's a mame cab I more often than not build the pc from scratch, at which point I don't bother with 7... the vast majority of people are like that.   

Aaaaand there are many games that run much better using the DX10/11 path than DX9, which means...  you guessed it...  Win7 (or Vista or Win8 if you want to get technical).  I can think of a few at home that I've run into that ran better with DX10/11, and when I worked at Intel in their CV lab, that's all we did was test compatibility and such, and ran into plenty there as well.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2013, 02:28:50 am »
But this isn't emulation.  This is running a windows game on a windows system.

Yes, most likely on his MAME cab.....  you aren't following are you?  Emulators are tricky, so you set things up based around them and THEN add in the pc games. 

Warborg

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2013, 04:46:15 am »
But this isn't emulation.  This is running a windows game on a windows system.

Yes, most likely on his MAME cab.....  you aren't following are you?  Emulators are tricky, so you set things up based around them and THEN add in the pc games.

Again, if you want to get technical, he never did say it was on a MAME cab, he just said NFS The Run wouldn't work on his WinXP rig, there was no mention of a cabinet.  As there has been a lot of discussion regarding PC racing games it could have simply been a heads up to others as far as that goes.  So you really can't tell FurSphere he isn't following when you are making assumptions...

BadMouth

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2013, 07:00:18 am »
I'm not upset that the game doesn't work on XP and I don't expect game companies to go to the trouble of making their new games compatible with it.  I was a little annoyed with myself for going to the trouble of downloading it on that computer before realizing it wouldn't work.

The reason for my original post is that I've been posting a lot of deals on driving games lately and felt a responsibility to point out that some of these games might not work on XP, which a lot of people use on their cabs.

I'm used to buying 5-15 year old games out of the bargain bin and never really pay attention to the system requirements.
Basically, the case has always been that if it's old enough to be in a bargain bin, my specs are going to exceed the requirements.
We've now got to the point where that's no longer the case and even a $5 game might require Directx11.
($5 is what I paid for NFS:The Run)

I planned to build a new screamer of a Win7 PC for my driving cab this summer so I could get into these newer driving games.
However, my budget hasn't been cooperating, so for the time being I thought I'd see if they could be played on the current setup.
I'm hoping that when the new Intel processors and Nvidia 700's come out there will be deals to be had on the stuff that's top shelf right now.


« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 07:17:08 am by BadMouth »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2013, 12:11:30 pm »
 ^  See what did I tell you?  ;)

Fursphere

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2013, 12:41:54 pm »
Badmouth...

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/itprovistadesktopui/thread/38024ff0-c4d4-4ebe-9e4e-9ead49a0a8c2

Apparently DX10 is officially available on XP now? 

EDIT:  Ok, that pages makes no sense.  It clearly says DX10 for XP, but the download is for 9.0c.  hmm

EDIT #2:  Still appears to be a hack.  http://www.techmixer.com/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp/

Doesn't seem to hard.  If I had an XP box I'd give it a try and let you know. 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 12:45:54 pm by Fursphere »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 03:40:38 pm »
Hmm.... mentions Xp 32 but not 64.... I wonder if it'll work anyway. 


The only thing that bums me out about xp is not being able to run demul. 

BadMouth

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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2013, 06:54:42 pm »
Badmouth...

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/itprovistadesktopui/thread/38024ff0-c4d4-4ebe-9e4e-9ead49a0a8c2

Apparently DX10 is officially available on XP now? 

EDIT:  Ok, that pages makes no sense.  It clearly says DX10 for XP, but the download is for 9.0c.  hmm

EDIT #2:  Still appears to be a hack.  http://www.techmixer.com/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp/

Doesn't seem to hard.  If I had an XP box I'd give it a try and let you know.

Interesting, I'll have to see if Demul v.5.8 will run with it.
Previously I've only seen tutorials about copying files from a Vista install into the XP install, but I never saw any examples of it actually working.  There was a thread in the software forum here, but nobody ever tried it and I didn't want to invest the time unless I knew it worked.


The only thing that bums me out about xp is not being able to run demul.

It runs Demul v.5.7 just fine.  I use it for the light gun games on my old setup which runs XP32.
I've tested it on XP64 and it works, but there is an odd issue where you must have the network plugin installed.

v.5.8 will run on XP, but you have to use the legacy directx9 drivers and I found them glitchy.
IIRC, my car in crazy taxi was missing the wheels. 

I also have a leaked WIP from between the two that I use on XP to run the atomiswave driving games, but it crashes when going fullscreen.
I don't think Metal Slug 6 was added until a later WIP.

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Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2013, 07:26:35 pm »
What is all this os tied to motherboard stuff.  If you have a problem call the number get the code, when it asks you how many pc's it's running on say 1! 
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Re: Need For Speed: The Run not compatible with XP
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2013, 10:33:24 pm »
Badmouth...

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/itprovistadesktopui/thread/38024ff0-c4d4-4ebe-9e4e-9ead49a0a8c2

Apparently DX10 is officially available on XP now? 

EDIT:  Ok, that pages makes no sense.  It clearly says DX10 for XP, but the download is for 9.0c.  hmm

EDIT #2:  Still appears to be a hack.  http://www.techmixer.com/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp/

Doesn't seem to hard.  If I had an XP box I'd give it a try and let you know.

Interesting, I'll have to see if Demul v.5.8 will run with it.
Previously I've only seen tutorials about copying files from a Vista install into the XP install, but I never saw any examples of it actually working.  There was a thread in the software forum here, but nobody ever tried it and I didn't want to invest the time unless I knew it worked.


The only thing that bums me out about xp is not being able to run demul.

It runs Demul v.5.7 just fine.  I use it for the light gun games on my old setup which runs XP32.
I've tested it on XP64 and it works, but there is an odd issue where you must have the network plugin installed.

v.5.8 will run on XP, but you have to use the legacy directx9 drivers and I found them glitchy.
IIRC, my car in crazy taxi was missing the wheels. 

I also have a leaked WIP from between the two that I use on XP to run the atomiswave driving games, but it crashes when going fullscreen.
I don't think Metal Slug 6 was added until a later WIP.

WTF?  You mean all that's been keeping me from running demul was the fact that I didn't install the network stuff?  Well I guess you live and learn. 

  
 

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