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Yes you can double-up inputs using shift on an I-PAC
eightbit:
Wow that would be incredible. I just bought an x-arcade for usb and xbox compatability.
shmokes:
Oh...yeah, I just meant that you seamed to be hacking an X-box controller to figure out how it worked so you could design a sleek interface.
If it's going to be a separate attachment that will plug into existing I-Pac's it probably doesn't matter; I just wanted an approximation of when this product might be available in case I should wait a month or two before buying my I-Pac to make sure I got one with X-box connectivity.
Thanks for the update.
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: AndyWarne on November 10, 2003, 12:21:44 pm ---I never really thought anyone would want to do this, but I was evidently completely wrong, as someone mentioned doing just this on another thread.
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Hmmmm, I thought _Iz- asked about this on the Ultimarc forum back in February or so and you replied that it couldn't be done because of the way the I-PAC shift function operates on key release. Are you changing the way the shift function operates or designing some sort of delay circuit so the shift key registers first when both inputs are pressed?
--- Quote ---Just to re-cap, it is the idea of having multiple specialized buttons on the panel for functions such as escape, coin etc rather than using shift functions, and without using up any more inputs to the encoder, so it effectively doubles the number of inputs.
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Just to clarify, based on my understanding - this is already possible with the KeyWiz, see http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/arcadepanels/encoder/shiftkeys.htm, although the I-PAC may well require a slightly different circuit.
Also, unless I'm wrong, it does not "double" the number of inputs, b/c the shift key has no way to send an input when shifted, so you get 27 additional inputs instead of 28 additional.
In addition, using the shifted inputs shifts all the regular inputs, so they're not just free inputs. You would end up with 27 additional non-gaming inputs for coins, Admin Functions, etc.
Finally, if you used this, you would probably want to program the Shift Key regular input to "NONE" to avoid conflicts, so what you end up with is a 27-input controller with 27 additional admin key functions.
The KeyWiz avoids this b/c the shift key is in addition to the 32 input keys - i.e. KeyWiz=32 inputs plus shift, I-PAC=28 inputs, one of which functions as shift.
Not trying to start a flame war, just re-iterating this b/c it caused a lot of confusion when the KeyWiz was first released.
tmasman:
--- Quote from: AndyWarne on November 10, 2003, 04:20:01 pm ---...if you use diodes you can avoid this...
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From the sounds of it he's probably wiring the shift function along with another wire to 1 button... Like he said though... There would need to at least be a diod or 2 to make this work right...
So you would be (almost) doubling your inputs. from 28 to 55.
As far as a signal being sent on key-release I'm assuming it's only the shift key that works that way... If you use the default (P1 start) there still shouldn't be any reason to lose the use of it alone as well as the combined "shift+another signal in 1" (& without some odd delay circuit)
I can see the usefullness of this. But with an easy how-to, it might mean a decrease in sales of the 4-player unit...
eh...
I always did wonder if this was possible, & now we know.
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: tmasman on November 12, 2003, 11:27:57 am ---From the sounds of it he's probably wiring the shift function along with another wire to 1 button... Like he said though... There would need to at least be a diod or 2 to make this work right...
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That would be how I take it.
--- Quote ---So you would be (almost) doubling your inputs. from 28 to 55.
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With many limitations. Agreed 55 or 54 total inputs, but it's not that simple. See the KeyWiz Stealth inputs discussion in the Shiftkeys page above and remember that one shifted key shifts all other keys. So let's say I have Coin 1 mapped to shifted P1B1 and Coin 2 mapped to Shifted P2B2. I am playing a game and Player 2 presses the Coin Input the same time Player 1 presses Fire. Player 1 will get a Coin1 input instead of the intended Fire key. The problem would be MUCH worse if the shifted inputs were used for P4B2 or some action button, so it's not like you get a I-PAC/4 or MK64 for half-price.
--- Quote ---As far as a signal being sent on key-release I'm assuming it's only the shift key that works that way... If you use the default (P1 start) there still shouldn't be any reason to lose the use of it alone as well as the combined "shift+another signal in 1" (& without some odd delay circuit)
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There are three cases here. Let me cover each of them, as I'm not sure what you mean.
Option 1 - This doesn't really use a "Shift" function. I leave P1Start as the Shift key, then use diodes to wire P1B2 and P2B1 to a single button and re-program MAME to recognize these combined inputs as Pause, Esc, Coin1, etc. The problems with this is that if I activate the two inputs separately, I will still have MAME do what the shifted button is supposed to do.
Option 2 - The I-PAC is reprogrammed so that the shifted input is sent on key-down. This is the way the KeyWiz is set-up, except that the KeyWiz shift key is a separate input. Otherwise, I will generate both inputs - I.E. let's say P1Start remains as Shift, and I wire a button to both P1B1 and P1Start, and assign this Shifted input as Coin 1. Now when I press the Coin 1 button, I will get the P1Start input, and the shift (Coin1) input. So I would think you would want to avoid having the P1Start input send a code to avoid this.
Option 3 - There is a way to wire the button so some kind of delay is activated between the button press and the shift input. This is difficult to follow (like the above wasn't ;-((( ), but with this, I could use the Shift key as a regular input, but not a game input. Consider the following: With the KeyWiz, I can assign all coin and start buttons to Stealth-Shifted inputs, but the 32 other inputs remain available for gameplay. With the I-PAC, if I use all 28 inputs for gameplay, one of them activates the shift function. So say I have P1B8 assigned as the Shift Button. Now whenever I press P1B8 (in a four-player game, for example), all the other keys will send their shifted rather than normal inputs. So I really can only use 27 of the inputs.
--- Quote ---I can see the usefullness of this. But with an easy how-to, it might mean a decrease in sales of the 4-player unit...
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No it won't, see above.