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Yes you can double-up inputs using shift on an I-PAC

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_Iz-:

for that matter, you could get one of these and hack it...

http://vfxweb.com/index.asp?action=itemv&ba=&cr=us&itemid=4252&ia=details&id=

RandyT:


--- Quote from: _Iz- on November 20, 2003, 01:59:55 pm ---for that matter, you could get one of these and hack it...

http://vfxweb.com/index.asp?action=itemv&ba=&cr=us&itemid=4252&ia=details&id=

--- End quote ---

There's the best bet  :)

Those things are all over lately.

RandyT

Tiger-Heli:


--- Quote from: _Iz- on November 19, 2003, 11:41:06 am ---One other thing to be aware of with the i-pac shift function. The shift *never* activates if any other function is being activated when it (shift) is activated. When you hit the shift key, it checks first to see if any other terminals are activated, if they are it ignores the shift press (I assume this is so it doesn't disturb other players by shifting their actions). I believe this is also opposite how the keywiz works. Pressing the "shazzam" (shift) key on the keywiz immediately puts the entire panel in shifted mode until it is released regardless of what is happening on it.

--- End quote ---
Let me point something out here.  What _Iz- is saying is that on the I-PAC, if I am holding down Input A and then press the Shift button, Input A still registers, and the Shift function does not do anything.  On the KeyWiz, if I am pressing input A and then press the Shazaaam! key, the KeyWiz immediately shifts from sending Input A to sending Shifted Input A.

This is fairly irrelevant, however, as the likelihood of this happening is fairly slim.

A bigger concern, which "I" was mentioning is that on either device, if I am NOT pressing Input A, and depress  the Shift/Shazaam key, then ANY remaining input will send it's shifted input on both encoders.

Therefore, as _Iz said, it's advantageous to have your standard and shifted inputs be the same whenever possible, to use the minimum number of shifted inputs, to not have Escape or Pause as shifted inputs so you don't inadvertantly exit your game, preferably to disable the alternate code swapping on the KeyWiz, and to never use shifted inputs for action buttons.  (That was sure a long-winded sentence.)

But that isn't the major issue either.  The major issue is how the shift key plays into the total number of inputs.

On the KeyWiz, the Shazaaam! input is separate from the other 32 inputs, so I could conceivably play 4-player , 4-button games with Stealth-Shifted inputs for coin and Start.

On the I-PAC, the shift key doubles as an input key, so I really have only 27 available inputs for action keys without getting into the issues above.  Because of this, even though the I-PAC theoretically should support 4-player 3-button games (28 action inputs), it no longer can if you start using shift keys for coin/start inputs.

Of course neither one was specifically designed for 4-player games, and either one can handle 2-player games just fine regardless.

And this has all been hashed out before, although many people still don't get it.

BTW, I'm telling both RandyT and Andy Warne how their products work without owning either one, so apologies if I got this wrong.

So there!

eightbit:

For removable panels most people use one encoder and mount it in the cab and swap out just the controls. Swapping the encoder would require it to be hot swappable which may or may not work. You'd also have to buy an encoder for each panel which would be great for encoder sales but not really necessary. For rotating panels you have wires going in and out anyway, whats a couple more for the admin buttons? Personally I don't see those as valid reasons. I've never done a rotating panel though so what do I know?

Now if it was a stand alone slimmed down and cheaper (how much cheaper can it get and still be profitable?) than the keywiz I could see a niche for it. My pole position cab is going to need a couple inputs for admin and the shifter and I was debating using a encoder, hacking a kb or hacking a game pad for the 5 or 6 inputs I'm planning on. A encoder is overkill and gamepads have their own issues like not being able to work with my favorite front end. I am leaning towards a kb hack. If this new mini-encoder  had enough inputs for a one player cab it would be a cheaper solution for classic 1 player panels and if it could be combined with a 2 player encoder it could give you enough inputs for a 4 player panel.


RandyT:

First things first:  The Disclaimer :)

For those of you who might be trying to follow along, I just want to remind you that all of this is very advanced and designed for those trying to maximize every possible input on a KeyWiz.  If all you need are 32 inputs or less, none of this will ever matter to you one way or the other and use of the KeyWiz is as simple, if not moreso than any other keyboard encoder.

There have been individuals that have added 10 or more "one-click" Shazaaam! buttons to their CP in addition to using every one of the 32 inputs of the KeyWiz.  This discussion will be of more interest to them than the average user.  


--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on November 20, 2003, 02:22:21 pm ---Let me point something out here.  What _Iz- is saying is that on the I-PAC, if I am holding down Input A and then press the Shift button, Input A still registers, and the Shift function does not do anything.  On the KeyWiz, if I am pressing input A and then press the Shazaaam! key, the KeyWiz immediately shifts from sending Input A to sending Shifted Input A.

--- End quote ---

Again, it depends on the wiring.  If, for example, the Shazaaam! definition for "Input A" were ESC, and you used that as a "one-click" Shazaaam! button, you can keep it from triggering accidentally by placing that input in the prioritized chain.  Doing this would result in that input being blocked, if it just happened to be in use when the Shazaaam! function was active.


--- Quote ---This is fairly irrelevant, however, as the likelihood of this happening is fairly slim.

--- End quote ---

"I'll buy that for a dollar"  (you have to be a fan of the original Robocop movie :))


--- Quote ---Therefore, as _Iz said, it's advantageous to have your standard and shifted inputs be the same whenever possible, to use the minimum number of shifted inputs, to not have Escape or Pause as shifted inputs so you don't inadvertantly exit your game, preferably to disable the alternate code swapping on the KeyWiz, and to never use shifted inputs for action buttons.  (That was sure a long-winded sentence.)

--- End quote ---

Again, Pause and ESC wouldn't have issues when used as mentioned above, if they are prioritized.  This means that both couldn't be active at the same time.  Of course, for those two functions, you would never need them to be.

And I agree.  That method is certainly useful and can be used in conjunction with the above for even better control over the inputs.


--- Quote ---Of course neither one was specifically designed for 4-player games, and either one can handle 2-player games just fine regardless.

--- End quote ---

This statement is only partially true, at least as it applies to the KeyWiz.  My main motivation was to make a 4 player panel achievable (with limitations, of course) with a standard KeyWiz.  That's why the emphasis on the number of inputs, big buffers, lean code, etc...  In other words, my vision was to offer a low-cost interface that would function for either a decked out 2 player with as many buttons and controls as one wanted, or a no-frills 4 player.  But the KeyWiz was definitely designed with this in mind. :)

RandyT

(sorry for taking this one off topic....only did so in the interest of accuracy)

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