Cheap source for Force-feedback controller

[Howard_Casto]

Several years back I bought several third party xbox controllers.  I had bought them because they were only a couple bucks a pop and seeing as how classic xbox controllers are basically HID controllers I had assumed that I could use them as cheap force feedback interfaces.  Well I discovered that third party controllers didn't support rumble via the XBCD drivers!

Apparently this has changed fairly recently.  I was playing around on the net this morning and ran across new drivers:

http://vba-m.com/forum/Thread-xbcd-0-2-7-release-info-updates-will-be-posted-here

It's confusing because it says it's version 2.7 and xbcd has been on that for quite some time, but apparently the author just keeps updating the install scripts without upping the version number. 

Anyway, nearly all controllers, especially the el-cheap-o controllers now have working FF!  I pulled one of my generic "Maximo X" controllers out of storage and sure enough, it works!  Also the drivers are now signed, so they don't cause quite as much of a headache in vista/7. 


How is this related to Racing and Driving?  Well several years ago when I used to play the crap out of Outrun 2 on the Xbox, I had this xbox wheel that used the standard dual rumble motors.  What was interesting though was because it was a wheel the motors had a lot of distance between them.  It became apparent that with this degree of separation, the dual motors in a xbox controller actually work as they should.  You can have subtle effects, rough effects, and most importantly left and right separation. 

So back then the plan was to hack a xbox controller's two rumble motor outputs to a cheap amp and drive either dual butt thumpers or maybe rather large offset motors (yes, you can do that via an amp...  cordless drill motors work particularly well).  Stick em under the seat and you have road effects as well as the force feedback on your wheel. 

You can still find classic xbox controllers at your local discount store for a song.  I know around here there are these family dollar/dollar general stores and for whatever reason, they still stock xbox and gamecube controllers.   

The next release of mamehooker will get extensive functionality added to FF controllers, so for arcade and hackable pc games at least, we can apply whatever effects we want to such an interface. 

It would also work for cab retrofits of games that had really simply rumble-like ff like the original outrun upright, afterburner upright, ect....

I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in this, but I thought I would mention it. 

[isamu]

Several years back I bought several third party xbox controllers.  I had bought them because they were only a couple bucks a pop and seeing as how classic xbox controllers are basically HID controllers I had assumed that I could use them as cheap force feedback interfaces.  Well I discovered that third party controllers didn't support rumble via the XBCD drivers!

Apparently this has changed fairly recently.  I was playing around on the net this morning and ran across new drivers:

http://vba-m.com/forum/Thread-xbcd-0-2-7-release-info-updates-will-be-posted-here

It's confusing because it says it's version 2.7 and xbcd has been on that for quite some time, but apparently the author just keeps updating the install scripts without upping the version number. 

Anyway, nearly all controllers, especially the el-cheap-o controllers now have working FF!  I pulled one of my generic "Maximo X" controllers out of storage and sure enough, it works!  Also the drivers are now signed, so they don't cause quite as much of a headache in vista/7. 


How is this related to Racing and Driving?  Well several years ago when I used to play the crap out of Outrun 2 on the Xbox, I had this xbox wheel that used the standard dual rumble motors.  What was interesting though was because it was a wheel the motors had a lot of distance between them.  It became apparent that with this degree of separation, the dual motors in a xbox controller actually work as they should.  You can have subtle effects, rough effects, and most importantly left and right separation. 

So back then the plan was to hack a xbox controller's two rumble motor outputs to a cheap amp and drive either dual butt thumpers or maybe rather large offset motors (yes, you can do that via an amp...  cordless drill motors work particularly well).  Stick em under the seat and you have road effects as well as the force feedback on your wheel. 

You can still find classic xbox controllers at your local discount store for a song.  I know around here there are these family dollar/dollar general stores and for whatever reason, they still stock xbox and gamecube controllers.   

The next release of mamehooker will get extensive functionality added to FF controllers, so for arcade and hackable pc games at least, we can apply whatever effects we want to such an interface. 

It would also work for cab retrofits of games that had really simply rumble-like ff like the original outrun upright, afterburner upright, ect....

I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in this, but I thought I would mention it.

Awesome and exciting news man! 

I too used to play the living ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of the original OutRun 2 on Xbox many years ago. Like you, I was using a wheel. My wheel of choice was the Fanatec Xbox ffb wheel. It didn't have TRUE ffb mind you, but as you described it only had rumble capabilities but the effect was quite good for it's time. Then it broke lol.

Anyway this is really exciting news for Mame Hooker. Not sure what you mean by:

mamehooker will get extensive functionality added to FF controllers, so for arcade and hackable pc games at least, we can apply whatever effects we want to such an interface.

....does that means you can add your own custom force feedback to *ANY* driving game easily even if it didn't originally support it? The Ridge Racer games for example?

Oh and you're right about the butt rumblers. I plan on getting a simvibe setup sometime by the end of this year and I hear they're great:

http://simxperience.com/Products/SimVibe/SimVibeSoftware.aspx

Would fit perfectly under my racing frame, as I already have it elevated via heavy stones.    This is the frame I have:

[Howard_Casto]

By that comment I meant that you are no longer limited to mere constant force effects.  The ability to use any kind of effect, as well as load professionally made effects via effect files will allow you to do a lot more with a lot less effort. 

No it isn't turn key to add effects to games that don't support it unfortunately.  Troubleshooter 2 as well as the upcoming outrun 2k6 app will allow you to read memory positions and send them to MH though, which might make it possible, depending upon the game. 

I think I'll work on all of this stuff this weekend actually. 

Regarding the link you sent to me.... Mh already has the ability to play a sound to a specific sound device and adjust the volume, so it can do the same as that app.  I added it for another reason, but I'm just saying... use a rig like that and it'd work for mame as well.  I might add levels adjustment for better functionality. 

[isamu]

By that comment I meant that you are no longer limited to mere constant force effects.  The ability to use any kind of effect, as well as load professionally made effects via effect files will allow you to do a lot more with a lot less effort. 

No it isn't turn key to add effects to games that don't support it unfortunately.  Troubleshooter 2 as well as the upcoming outrun 2k6 app will allow you to read memory positions and send them to MH though, which might make it possible, depending upon the game. 

I think I'll work on all of this stuff this weekend actually. 

Regarding the link you sent to me.... Mh already has the ability to play a sound to a specific sound device and adjust the volume, so it can do the same as that app.  I added it for another reason, but I'm just saying... use a rig like that and it'd work for mame as well.  I might add levels adjustment for better functionality.

OK sounds bitchen!!! Can't wait to check it out. Keep us posted 

[isamu]

By that comment I meant that you are no longer limited to mere constant force effects.  The ability to use any kind of effect, as well as load professionally made effects via effect files will allow you to do a lot more with a lot less effort.

Awesome! 

By the way did you find a ffb controller yet? Mizoo is has made a BADASS one so you might be able to work something out with him and get it for dirt cheap.

http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/my-homemade-ffb-controller.37051/

 

No it isn't turn key to add effects to games that don't support it unfortunately.

I don't know what I was thinking asking you this, honestly.    You would *obviously* need to hack into the game's actual rom code and add your own ffb code to the rom itself in order to make it happen(correct?). Do memory editors such as cheat engine allow you to access the entire code of the game and add in lines of code such as ffb, etc? I would imagine it's a huge undertaking.

Troubleshooter 2 as well as the upcoming outrun 2k6 app will allow you to read memory positions and send them to MH though, which might make it possible, depending upon the game.

What exactly are "memory positions" and how exactly does that relate to ffb effects?

Regarding the link you sent to me.... Mh already has the ability to play a sound to a specific sound device and adjust the volume, so it can do the same as that app.

Wow, so in other words as long as the game itself supports force feedback, you can take those ffb signals, tweak them, convert them, and proceed to send them to a sound card, then the sound card will deliver audio that has been converted from the ffb signal my bass shakers/butt kickers?

SimVibe does it that way with one exception....it actually takes the games' motion telemetry, rather than its ffb code, and then uses that telemetry to convert to audio and then to the sound card. Given the games we enjoy are from arcade emulators however, SimVibe doesn't support them.

If the Hookster or the OR2K6 app can do it, we will be golden! 

In addition, I am sincerely hoping once it's out you will add support for other emulators that support ffb /rumble such as Dolphin and PCSX2. Would be totally TUBULER to be able to play F-Zero GX in Dolphin with the ffb effects sent to some buttkicker bass shakers under my race frame!!!! I'm sure you'd agree, since you're in the process of building a racing rig yourself! 

[isamu]

Man it sure is hot in Southern California! It hit 93 degrees here in Los Angeles yesterday!