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| Joystick advice: shortest throw, natively/moddable into top fire |
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| Retrieving:
Hello everyone. I'm currently using a Sanwa JLJ-PL2-8V and have been doing so for the past 4 years, problem is that the throw has never been that short to begin with (I mean it's shorter than your average stick but I play a game whose controls are time-dependant so even the slightest delay is a game changer and I had to mod the actuator and other parts in order to decrease it) and the square plastic restrictor (which is removable from the mechanism but I wouldn't know where to purchase a replacement) is progressively wearing up around the corners...so I'm in the market for a new joystick, which one would you guys suggest? The characteristics I'm looking for are the following: 1. Short throw - what's the joystick with the shortest throw out of them all? Funny thing is that I tried both the Suzo-Happ Top Fire Super Stick and stuff like the Seimitsu LS-32 (and 33) and to me it feels like the former has a shorter throw compared to the latter...so I'm not trusting the charts you can find on the web anymore (wherein the Happ is listed as medium to long throw, whereas the LS-32 has short throw even though both the LS-32 and 33 are kinda sloppy), I'd like to hear from someone who's had 1st hand experience. 2. Short Engage distance 3. possibly Top Fire or moddable into it (ideally I'd put the handle of the Sanwa JLJ-PL2 on the shaft of the new joystick, I'd have to figure out how to prevent it from rotating though, any suggestion? I guess I could just buy a JLJ-PL1 and use that handle instead, although it'd be very expensive...). Well, thanks in advance for your help! |
| rCadeGaming:
What are you using the JLJ for? Virtual On? Bangai-O? I'm thinking of making a dual stick panel for things like that, so I'm interested in what you come up with. The biggest thing that would make that stick feel like it has a long engage/throw is that the handle/grip extends so far from the pivot point, and you have to hold at the top of it to use the buttons, creating a long lever arm. If you could mod the shaft and grip to be shorter, that would make a big difference. Then on the other side, moving the actuator and microswitches away from the pivot point will greatly reduce engage/throw. Basically, for the shortest throw/engage, you want to move your hand closer the pivot point and the actuator further away. You'd have to figure out the former, check out the last link in my signature for an example of the latter. As for using other Joysticks, I don't know about native-top fire models, but for the shortest throw you're going to want a JLF with my mod or a Seimitsu LS-33. Maybe you could then mod a normal balltop to put a button on top. There are hollow shafts available for the JLF to run the wires, and I think for the LS-33. Sounds like you're not impressed with the throw/engage ratings like those at Slagcoin? Check out Kowal's pages for actual measurements (apply Google translate where necessary). Throw and engage are physically measurable distances, the numbers don't lie. http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/joySLS33.htm |
| Retrieving:
--- Quote from: rCadeGaming on March 25, 2013, 11:09:21 am ---What are you using the JLJ for? Virtual On? Bangai-O? --- End quote --- Neither. I play Sensible World of Soccer "96/"97 (an old Amiga favourite) online somewhat competitively. It plays a lot like a hybrid between a 2D beat'em up and a shmup, despite being a soccer game. I go up against people who use keyboards or keypads, so I have to make up for the gap in input speed (the faster you are, the longer the ball will travel and spin, etc.) by using 2 hands (= 2 joysticks) simultaneously since the gameplay requires forward->backward and left->right motions for pretty much everything (shoots and long passes especially as you aim, fire and then raise the ball and/or curl it by pulling the stick back and then pushing left or right depending on direction, all of which has to be executed faster than a FADC shoryuken, if you get what I mean). --- Quote ---I'm thinking of making a dual stick panel for things like that, so I'm interested in what you come up with. --- End quote --- JLJ-PL2-V are most likely your best bet if you're going to implement unmodded, stock joysticks, lots of VOOT passionate fans use them in their sticks. They're very responsive and sturdy. --- Quote ---The biggest thing that would make that stick feel like it has a long engage/throw is that the handle/grip extends so far from the pivot point, and you have to hold at the top of it to use the buttons, creating a long lever arm. If you could mod the shaft and grip to be shorter, that would make a big difference. --- End quote --- Unfortunately that's not an option, I grew up with Quickshot (cheapo and plastic-y) 16-bit era trigger joysticks and I have never been able to get the same feel from short ball-tops. --- Quote ---check out the last link in my signature for an example of the latter. --- End quote --- That's one interesting mod, I might try it out on a JLF and add into the mix a Toodles' Spark Optical Joystick sensors kit for good measure. That'd make one helluva replacement for my old LS-32 as the off-hand lever on my control panel. --- Quote ---As for using other Joysticks, I don't know about native-top fire models, but for the shortest throw you're going to want a JLF with my mod or a Seimitsu LS-33. Maybe you could then mod a normal balltop to put a button on top. There are hollow shafts available for the JLF to run the wires, and I think for the LS-33. Sounds like you're not impressed with the throw/engage ratings like those at Slagcoin? Check out Kowal's pages for actual measurements (apply Google translate where necessary). Throw and engage are physically measurable distances, the numbers don't lie. http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/joySLS33.htm --- End quote --- Problem is, I do own a LS-33 and its throw is not that amazingly short (in comparison, the JLJ seems to have a much shorter throw and definitely has a shorter engage, despite the difference in size, no kidding, no chart has ever taken the JLJ in consideration tho)...also the stick feels kinda sloppy (although I've never gotten around replacing the spring with a tighter one), same goes for the LS-32, so I really don't know whether I should trust said charts (I knew about Kowal's too, he's the one stating that the Happ Top Fire has a long throw) or not, things just don't quite add up as they should imho. How do they even measure throw, engagement and stuff, exactly? |
| rCadeGaming:
--- Quote from: Retrieving on March 25, 2013, 05:39:34 pm --- --- Quote ---The biggest thing that would make that stick feel like it has a long engage/throw is that the handle/grip extends so far from the pivot point, and you have to hold at the top of it to use the buttons, creating a long lever arm. If you could mod the shaft and grip to be shorter, that would make a big difference. --- End quote --- Unfortunately that's not an option, I grew up with Quickshot (cheapo and plastic-y) 16-bit era trigger joysticks and I have never been able to get the same feel from short ball-tops. --- End quote --- I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. In the section you quoted there I hadn't yet suggested using a ball top, I was suggesting to try modding the trigger grip assembly to bring your hand down closer to the pivot point. Do you mean there's no room to do so? You might be able to get some space by placing to mounting plate as to the surface of the control panel as possible. --- Quote from: Retrieving on March 25, 2013, 05:39:34 pm ---How do they even measure throw, engagement and stuff, exactly? --- End quote --- Kowal's methodology: http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/artMET.htm |
| Retrieving:
--- Quote from: rCadeGaming on March 25, 2013, 05:54:16 pm --- --- Quote from: Retrieving on March 25, 2013, 05:39:34 pm --- --- Quote ---The biggest thing that would make that stick feel like it has a long engage/throw is that the handle/grip extends so far from the pivot point, and you have to hold at the top of it to use the buttons, creating a long lever arm. If you could mod the shaft and grip to be shorter, that would make a big difference. --- End quote --- Unfortunately that's not an option, I grew up with Quickshot (cheapo and plastic-y) 16-bit era trigger joysticks and I have never been able to get the same feel from short ball-tops. --- End quote --- I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. In the section you quoted there I hadn't yet suggested using a ball top, I was suggesting to try modding the trigger grip assembly to bring your hand down closer to the pivot point. Do you mean there's no room to do so? You might be able to get some space by placing to mounting plate as to the surface of the control panel as possible. --- End quote --- I meant that if I shorten the handle it'll feel like playing with a thick balltop (I have already tried that) and regular balltops height doesn't quite cut it as far as my playstyle goes. Thanks for the link, I'll look into it. |
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